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Old July 24th 03, 07:47 PM
David Eduardo
 
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Default Most Powerful AM Radio Stations


"Antonio" wrote in message
...
I always have wanted to know how much power are stations allowed to
operate.
I remember while living in Mexico, listening to XEWA 540AM, they used
to operate at 150,000 watts day and night, but now they are less than
that, probably 5000 watts or something.


150,000 day and night.

XEW 900 is well known, they use 250,000 watts and say they cover most
of North America.


They say nothing like that. The signal had been dropped to 100 kw for many
years, but due to high man made interference in Mexico City, they upped it
again to provide good coverage of the Mexico City metro area.

American stations use at most 50,000 watts and they are forced to
lower their power at night,


Some US 50's are 50 day and night; a few are non-directional all hours,
others go directional at night, others are directional at all hours. And
then there are many 50's in the daytime, that reduce to lower levels at
night... as low as 250 watts!

while at the same time, one station, I
think is in Mexico City, goes from 5,000 to 150,000 at nights.


Not so. In the 60's, XERF in Cd. Acua, Coah., on 1570 only operated at
night as it's business was mail order and preachers. This was an exception.
It is now 15 kw day and night.

No Mexico City AM has higher night power than day power.

Any explanation would be appreciated and one question,
Is there any pros and cons of running that much power?
How about other countries, whats the most power a station can have?


Mexico: 250 KW. Most of Central America: 50 kw.
Colombia: 250 kw
Venezuela: 1,000,000 watts.
Chile, Argentina: 100 kw

Many European nations have 1,000,000 stations. Higher power is used in
several of the Arab nations.



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Old July 25th 03, 03:16 PM
CA was in NJ
 
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David Eduardo wrote:

Some US 50's are 50 day and night; a few are non-directional all hours,
others go directional at night, others are directional at all hours. And
then there are many 50's in the daytime, that reduce to lower levels at
night... as low as 250 watts!


KIQN/Tooele UT on 1010 runs 50,000w day, 3,100w critical hours and a
whopping 13w (yes thirteen watts) nights.


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Old July 25th 03, 07:02 PM
Antonio
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"David Eduardo" wrote in message ...
"Antonio" wrote in message
...
I always have wanted to know how much power are stations allowed to
operate.
I remember while living in Mexico, listening to XEWA 540AM, they used
to operate at 150,000 watts day and night, but now they are less than
that, probably 5000 watts or something.


150,000 day and night.

XEW 900 is well known, they use 250,000 watts and say they cover most
of North America.


They say nothing like that. The signal had been dropped to 100 kw for many
years, but due to high man made interference in Mexico City, they upped it
again to provide good coverage of the Mexico City metro area.


XEW 900 is listed at the Secretaria de Comunicaciones y
Transportes(www.sct.gob.mx) with 250 kW, along with other 3 more
stations with more than 50 kW(XEB 1220 100 kW, XEEP 1060 100kW, XEX
730 100kW). I remember listening to XEG 1050 from Monterrey, the
signal sounded better than some locals and but only at nights.
Its a shame that the Secreataria doesnt provide coverage maps for the
stations, it would be nice to see a coverage map for a 100kW or a
250kW.
Is there a way to make a map with the Effective Radiated Power, Height
above Avg. Terrain and Antenna Pattern?
XEW 900 broadcast over the Internet at www.esmas.com/wradio. The site
used to stream a few other FM radios, it dropped them and now only has
W Radio and other Pop station.
The promos of XEWA 540 used to say the covered North Mexico and the
South of the USA, and they fed their signal to regular satelite, you
could hear either a Televisa channel or the station. Satelite radio?

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Old July 25th 03, 09:55 PM
David Eduardo
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mark Roberts" wrote in message
...
CA was in NJ had written:
| David Eduardo wrote:
|
| Some US 50's are 50 day and night; a few are non-directional all hours,
| others go directional at night, others are directional at all hours.

And
| then there are many 50's in the daytime, that reduce to lower levels at
| night... as low as 250 watts!
|
| KIQN/Tooele UT on 1010 runs 50,000w day, 3,100w critical hours and a
| whopping 13w (yes thirteen watts) nights.
|

That station doesn't have a DA. Might it be possible that KIQN once
had a DA-N and then gave it up?


I think it was a low-power daytimer that upgraded to the best it can get.

Does nighttime coverage really matter any more? How much radio
listening is there at night (after PM drive)? And, more to
the point, is that an audience worth selling to?


In LA, 53.3% of all persons 12+ listen to radio in the 7 to Midnight time
period.

Keep in mind that in deep winter, sunset may happen in the middle of
afternoon drive and sunrise late in morning drive. That means a daytimer in
a middle latitude may operate from 6:30 AM to 4:45 PM. So night operation is
critical.

I wonder if a good, solid cost/benefit analysis has really been
done for stations with limited coverage that are still staying on 24/7.
I suppose the costs these days are marginally low enough that a
small amount of revenue would make it worthwhile.


Since overall ratings performance and pricing are based on 6AM-Mid, Mon-Sun,
you don't see many daytimes doing well anywhere.


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Old July 25th 03, 09:55 PM
David Eduardo
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
Many European nations have 1,000,000 stations. Higher power is used in
several of the Arab nations.


There are a handful of 2,000,000-watt stations in the Middle East and I
believe at least one in Europe. I know of nothing more powerful.

Is that megawatter in Venezuela operating? I've seen it mentioned from
time to time but always as "future plans".


It tested briefly on 1240 (odd frequency) and never reappeared. It was some
president's boondoggle. I was told the transmitter was the same one that
operated in Costa Rica (TIRICA-625) for a few weeks in about 1971.




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Old July 26th 03, 06:53 PM
Charles Hobbs
 
Posts: n/a
Default

David Eduardo wrote:
"Mark Roberts" wrote in message
...

CA was in NJ had written:
| David Eduardo wrote:
|
| Some US 50's are 50 day and night; a few are non-directional all hours,
| others go directional at night, others are directional at all hours.


And

| then there are many 50's in the daytime, that reduce to lower levels at
| night... as low as 250 watts!
|
| KIQN/Tooele UT on 1010 runs 50,000w day, 3,100w critical hours and a
| whopping 13w (yes thirteen watts) nights.
|

That station doesn't have a DA. Might it be possible that KIQN once
had a DA-N and then gave it up?



I think it was a low-power daytimer that upgraded to the best it can get.


Does nighttime coverage really matter any more? How much radio
listening is there at night (after PM drive)? And, more to
the point, is that an audience worth selling to?



In LA, 53.3% of all persons 12+ listen to radio in the 7 to Midnight time
period.

Keep in mind that in deep winter, sunset may happen in the middle of
afternoon drive and sunrise late in morning drive. That means a daytimer in
a middle latitude may operate from 6:30 AM to 4:45 PM. So night operation is
critical.


I wonder if a good, solid cost/benefit analysis has really been
done for stations with limited coverage that are still staying on 24/7.
I suppose the costs these days are marginally low enough that a
small amount of revenue would make it worthwhile.



Since overall ratings performance and pricing are based on 6AM-Mid, Mon-Sun,
you don't see many daytimes doing well anywhere.


Are there that many daytimers left? The only one I know if in LA (or
anywhere
else for that matter) is KBRT-740 on Avalon (KCBS stomps on it as soon as it
gets just a little bit twilighty...)

All of the other local daytime-only stations (KIEV-870, whoever's on 900
and 1220 over in Pomona....were there any others) are full timers now
(much to the consternation of the DXers out there....)

P.S. Wasn't the expanded band designed to give these daytimers a place to
go be fulltimers without cluttering up the rest of the band? Well, guess
what
didn't happen...

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Old July 26th 03, 06:54 PM
Gene Seibel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

There was talk some years ago of a 5 or 6 million watt AM in Egypt.
Not sure if it ever happened.
--
Gene Seibel
Broadcasting page - http://pad39a.com/gene/broadcast.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.


"Antonio" wrote in message
...
I always have wanted to know how much power are stations allowed to
operate.
I remember while living in Mexico, listening to XEWA 540AM, they

used
to operate at 150,000 watts day and night, but now they are less

than
that, probably 5000 watts or something.
XEW 900 is well known, they use 250,000 watts and say they cover

most
of North America.
American stations use at most 50,000 watts and they are forced to
lower their power at night, while at the same time, one station, I
think is in Mexico City, goes from 5,000 to 150,000 at nights.
Any explanation would be appreciated and one question,
Is there any pros and cons of running that much power?
How about other countries, whats the most power a station can have?




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Old July 26th 03, 06:54 PM
Doug Smith W9WI
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Greg and Joan wrote:
1) Didn't PJB, 800 khz, Netherlands Antilles (Bonaire) run 500Kw? Do
they still do so today? I used to be able to pick them up in Massachusetts


Yes and no.

(the night before my brother's wedding in Traverse City, Michigan PJB
was BOMBING into my motel room. I mean, they were louder than the
Chicago clears less than 200 miles away. Things must have been auroral
that night.)

My understanding is PJB's power plant (they had their own...) burned
down. When they rebuilt they decided to settle for 100kw and a
directional antenna favoring northern South America. (Venezuela &
Colombia)

beamed out toward the ocean and their signals don't go west. Even WBZ has
a lobe dampened, IIRC, to protect a station in Wyoming.


My understanding is that WBZ's DA actually protects the *east* - they're
trying to avoid wasting power over the ocean where there's nobody (at
least nobody with a diary) listening. The Wyoming station (KTWO Casper)
protects WBZ, but not vice-versa.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

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Old July 26th 03, 06:54 PM
S
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Are there still clear channel stations in the U.S? I thought they dropped
that years ago.

scott


"Peter H." wrote in message
...


I always have wanted to know how much power are stations allowed to

operate.


This is specified by international treaties. For North America, this would

be
the North America Regional Broadcast Agreement (signed 1939, effective

1941),
and the subsequent U.S.-Mexico Broadcast Agreement and U.S.-Canada

Broadcast
Agreement.

For Class I-A stations, only, the wording was stated to be "at least

50,000
watts" because Mexico was already using in excess of 50,000 watts.

For all other Class I-B and Class II-B stations the wording was stated to

be
"50,000 watts".

However, Mexico subsequently authorized 100,000 watts, during daytime

only, for
stations not otherwise entitled by treaty to use more than 50,000 watts.

In fact, for some stations which were limited by treaty to 10,000 watts,

Mexico
also allows 100,000 watts, during daytime only.

The much later "Rio" treaty further modified the rules, and allowed for

the
first time Mexican and Canadian operations on U.S. clear channels, as well

as
unrestricted operation of U.S. stations on Mexican clears.

(The earlier NARBA treaty had already authorized U.S. operations on

Canadian
clears, provided the stations were more than 650 miles from the

U.S.-Canadian
border).


I remember while living in Mexico, listening to XEWA 540AM, they used to
operate at 150,000 watts day and night, but now they are less than that,
probably 5000 watts or something.


XEWA was not the original Class I-A occupant of 540.

By 1941's NARBA, 540 was given to Canada as a Class I-A.

By the mid-1950s U.S.-Mexico agreement, 540 was added to Mexico's Class

I-A
list, and that frequency was assigned to San Luis Potosi, at 150,000

watts.

IIRC, XEWA is still operating with 150,000 watts.

Certainly, it is "notified" and authorized to do so.



XEW 900 is well known, they use 250,000 watts and say they cover most of

North
America.


NARBA also gave the U.S. night time priority on 800 and 900 in Alaska,

although
one of those stations has been changed to a U.S. clear channel on account

of
excessive interference from Canada.

Insofar as the U.S.-Mexican treaty, the U.S. includes all states and
territories, so Hawaii, Alaska and P.R. are included, even though these

states
and territories really can't interfere with Mexico's "notified"

operations.

However, Canada, not being contiguous with Mexico, used all Mexican clears

for
whatever purpose it wanted. It's just that Canada could not "notify" any

Class
I stations on those frequencies.

Additionally, the U.S.-Mexican treaty prohibited the U.S. from operating

any
station on Mexican clears at night, and also prevented any day operations
greater than 1 kW. Unless specifically excepted by treaty, which covered

the
50,000 watt DA-1 operations in Cleveland (1220) and New York (1050), and

the
5,000 watt operation in Alaska (800 and 900).



American stations use at most 50,000 watts and they are forced to lower

their
power at night, while at the same time, one station, I think is in Mexico

City,
goes from 5,000 to 150,000 at nights.


U.S., Canada and The Bahamas have a 50,000 watt limit.

Unless a specific station is "notified" for lower power at night, the same
power may be used night as well as day.

Class I-A and I-B (now Class A) stations are permitted a flat 50,000 watts
(more for Mexico, under the conditions described above).

That is, unless the Class A is "grandfathered" at a lower power, say,

10,000
watts.

There is only one U.S. Class A station which is so grandfathered.

There is one Canadian stations which is so grandfathered (1550).

There are three Mexican stations which are so grandfathered (1000, 1190

and
1550).



Any explanation would be appreciated and one question, Is there any pros

and
cons of running that much power?


Lots of power was needed to cover "underserved" areas in decades past.

Lots of power is now needed in order to overcome all the man-made

interference
from the gazillions of switching power supplies used in computers and
entertainment appliances.

With "Rio" stations which were formerly limited to 5,000 watts were

allowed to
increase to 50,000 watts.

Practically speaking, this only applies to "historical" Class III-A

stations
(KJR, KMJ, KKOL, KXTA, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera) as these Class III-A
stations received better protection then Class III stations of inferior
priority (Class III-B, e.g.).



How about other countries, whats the most power a station can have?


In Europe, there is/was a 1,400,000 watt station.

But, because of unauthorized use by other countries (Cypress and Israel,

IIRC)
the 1,400,000 watts is largely wasted at night.




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Old July 27th 03, 08:14 PM
Peter H.
 
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Default



Are there still clear channel stations in the U.S?


There are still clear channels ... just no clear channel stations.

There are NO channels assigned to the highest priority station which are no
duplicated by statons of lesser priority.




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