Weird - Stations on 44 *and* 45?
 

From 1988-1990, I was in college in Dayton, Ohio. At the time, there was a
5-year-old TV station (WRGT/45) which had just signed on as a FOX
affiliate.

Today I was at the website for another Dayton TV station, WHIO-TV 7. Their
website also has information on Dayton's UPN station. Dayton's UPN station
is apparently at Channel 44.

I've never heard of two TV stations in the same market separated by one
position on the dial. I know that for technical reasons, you can't do that
with radio, and I'm trying to figure out how it's being done here.

The Dayton FCC listing includes all of the stations that were there when
I was in school (2, 7, 16, 22, 45), an active HDTV license on Channel 30,
and HDTV applications on 41, 50 and 58. And there is an LP license on
Channel 66. Nothing on 44.

In Springfield, the other major city in the area (radio and TV stations
generally identify themselves as "WXYZ Dayton/Springfield"), I see a
WBDT-TV26, WBDT-DT18, and a couple miscellaneous LP licenses.

The only stuff I can find at Channel 44 in Ohio: WTLW-TV Lima,
WOUC-TV Cambridge, and W53BN Youngstown. There is not a single license
for Channel 44 *anywhere* near Dayton. Not in Montgomery County, not in
Clark County, not in any of the counties surrounding Dayton or
Springfield. In fact, there are only a handful of records referring to
TV44 anywhere in Ohio, according to the search I did on the FCC website.

I'm going to e-mail the station, but they have a note that "due to
the volume we receive, personal replies will not always be possible."

I hope someone answers my e-mail. I'm really curious about this.

References:

http://www.Fox45.com/
http://www.whiotv.com/upn44/

--
JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET *

Steven J. Sobol wrote:
Today I was at the website for another Dayton TV station, WHIO-TV 7. Their
website also has information on Dayton's UPN station. Dayton's UPN station
is apparently at Channel 44.

I've never heard of two TV stations in the same market separated by one
position on the dial. I know that for technical reasons, you can't do that
with radio, and I'm trying to figure out how it's being done here.

I believe "UPN 44" is on cable only.
http://www.greaterdayton.com/localinfo.shtml (not conclusive but
suggestive)

The Dayton FCC listing includes all of the stations that were there when
I was in school (2, 7, 16, 22, 45), an active HDTV license on Channel 30,
and HDTV applications on 41, 50 and 58. And there is an LP license on
Channel 66. Nothing on 44.

I can't find anything about a over-the-air 44 there either.
================================================== =========
That said...

Such things are no longer impossible. It looks like part of the big
overhaul of the rules for DTV included relaxation of the channel-spacing
requirements.

Look, for example, at Philadelphia where WFPA-CA, a Class A (low-power
analog) station operates on channel 28 within a mile of full-power WTXF
channel 29. Or, in Boston, where full-power WFXT on channel 25 is
surrounded by low-power stations WFXZ-CA (24) and WHDN-LP (26). (they
even managed to shoehorn in a 3,000-watt LPTV on channel 3 in Boston,
between WGBH on 2 and WBZ on 4. W38CL tried to get a permit to use
channel 3 in the Bronx but failed...)

Even here in Nashville, we have a low-power station on channel 26 - a
full-power DTV on 27 - and a full-power analog about 30 miles east of
town on 28.

Now, you still can't use adjacent channels for full-power analog
stations. But you can definitely get a DTV in adjacent to a full-power
analog; and you can also get a low-power analog adjacent to a full-power
analog.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

On 6 Aug 2003 02:26:31 GMT, "Steven J. Sobol"
wrote:

I've never heard of two TV stations in the same market separated by one
position on the dial. I know that for technical reasons, you can't do that
with radio, and I'm trying to figure out how it's being done here.

That's because it's NOT being done here... Dayton's "UPN 44" exists
solely on local cable TV. It just sounds odd, because most
"cable-only" broadcast-style stations aren't as high up as cable
position 44.

44, I believe, started off life as "MVC"... which I believe would
stand for "Miami Valley Cablevision". WHIO-TV - which runs it (Cox, I
think) - only recently started calling it "UPN 44".

Mike

Steven J. Sobol wrote:


Today I was at the website for another Dayton TV station, WHIO-TV 7. Their
website also has information on Dayton's UPN station. Dayton's UPN station
is apparently at Channel 44.



Apparently not... I'm not in Dayton, but your puzzle intrigued me. It
looks like the WHIO web site is the only place that makes any reference
to a "UPN 44", and notice there are no call letters, just "UPN44".

It looks like it's a cable-only station. If you go to one of the TV
listing sites and plug in a zipcode for Dayton, then choose a cable
system, you'll find a "MVC 44" listed on channel 44. Look at the
listings, and they're identical to the WHIO website's listings for UPN
44.

There's also a broadcast station called WWHO on channel 53, also a UPN
affiliate, but it doesn't appear to be carried on cable.

But getting back to your original point... there are not actually two
stations in Dayton on 44 and 45.

(There are some places where digital stations are on adjacent channels
to analog stations, but no adjacent-channel analog-analog or
digital-digital.)

Steven J. Sobol wrote:

From 1988-1990, I was in college in Dayton, Ohio. At the time, there was a
5-year-old TV station (WRGT/45) which had just signed on as a FOX
affiliate.

Today I was at the website for another Dayton TV station, WHIO-TV 7. Their
website also has information on Dayton's UPN station. Dayton's UPN station
is apparently at Channel 44.

I've never heard of two TV stations in the same market separated by one
position on the dial. I know that for technical reasons, you can't do that
with radio, and I'm trying to figure out how it's being done here.

I don't think it is. It looks like the ch44 is one of those made-for-cable
stations.

There was something floating around either on one of these groups or maybe
at 100000watts.com about two non-comm FM's on the *same* channel on opposite
ends of a city.

CA was in NJ wrote:
There was something floating around either on one of these groups or maybe
at 100000watts.com about two non-comm FM's on the *same* channel on opposite
ends of a city.

There are two stations each on 88.1 and 88.3 in Chicago. I believe
you're correct that they're at opposite ends of the city. One of the
88.1's is a grandfathered Class D (10-watt) operation.

For good measure, there are six more 88.1's in Chicago suburbs and five
more 88.3's. Plus someone's managed to shoehorn in two pirates on 87.9...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Doug Smith W9WI writes:

Now, you still can't use adjacent channels for full-power analog
stations.

In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV)
Channel 5 as long as anyone can remember.


umar

In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV) Channel 5 as
long as anyone can remember.

TV Channels 4 and 5 are adjacent in number, but not in frequency. There's a
4-MHz gap between the high end of Channel 4 and the low end of Channel 5.

In article , umarc wrote:

In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV)
Channel 5 as long as anyone can remember.

Channels 4 and 5 are not adjacent.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every
| generation can invoke its principles in their own
Opinions not those of| search for greater freedom.
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. ___ (2003)

"umarc" wrote

In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV)
Channel 5 as long as anyone can remember.

Channels 4 and 5 aren't actually adjacent. There's 4 mHz of spectrum
in-between.
Channel 4 -- 66 to 72 mHz
Channel 5 -- 76 to 82 mHz

--
VB

"Tony Calguire" wrote in message
...
There's also a broadcast station called WWHO on channel 53, also a UPN
affiliate, but it doesn't appear to be carried on cable.



WWHO is licensed to Chillicothe and calls them selves UPN Columbus, and
carries both WB and UPN networks for Columbus, It is available on cable in
Columbus.


geoff

In article , umarc wrote:
In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV)
Channel 5 as long as anyone can remember.

The separation between those two sets of frequencies is wide enough
that such an allocation is allowable.

I believe the same thing can be done with 6 and 7 (both are at
opposite ends of the FM broadcast band).

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

Vinyl Bytes wrote:

Channels 4 and 5 aren't actually adjacent. There's 4 mHz of spectrum
in-between.
Channel 4 -- 66 to 72 mHz
Channel 5 -- 76 to 82 mHz

Incidentally, between 4 and 5 is where cable channel 1 lives.

Mark Howell had written:
|
| What's been done to the NCE band in recent years is absolutely
| scandalous. I was under the evidently false impression that the
| mission of the F.C.C. was to prevent interference, not promote it.

What happened with BC 80-90 plus the "super A" proceeding should
have cleared up *that* misconception.

Then there are PSSAs, certain DAs, the seemingly perpetual waivers
for stations who were supposed to "move" to the expanded band, just
to name three for the AM band.

The FCC's motto the last 25 years : "let no post office go
without a radio station nearby"

--
Mark Roberts
Oakland, California
(it will forward)

Peter H. wrote:

The only COL (and market) to have every possible VHF channel AND with every
such channel having an offset of zero is Los Angeles.

Ok. Why?

G.T TYSON wrote:
I always found it unusual that WFXI-TV in Morehead City NC managed to
get a channel 8 VHF allocation assigned to them. There's a full-power 7
and 9 less than 50 miles away and another channel 8 just across the
border in Virginia. That must have taken some extremely creative
engineering.

Under the old regulations adjacent VHF channel full-power stations must
be at least 95.7km (just shy of 60 miles) apart. (87.7km, just shy of
55 miles, for UHF)

The FCC shoehorned in a few short-spaced allotments back in the early
1970s, and it took awhile for them to decide who'd get those allotments.
Channel 8 in Knoxville, TN and Altoona, PA are two examples.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

"CA was in NJ"
SHOT_ON_SIGHT wrote in
message ...
Steven J. Sobol wrote:
There was something floating around either on one of these groups or maybe
at 100000watts.com about two non-comm FM's on the *same* channel on
opposite
ends of a city.

In addition to the ones in Chicago, here in Birmingham, AL we have two
stations on 91.1, both of which are college-run outlets.

WVSU operates at only 500w with a south-oriented directional antenna from
atop Shades Crest in the southern suburbs, and WJSR operates with a massive
100w which may be directional to the north from the far-north community of
Pinson.

About five years ago they both were 100w nondirectional, but both had really
low HAATs and several hills separating the signals. Either way, the only
place I could find discernable interference between the two was in east
B'ham near Century Plaza and in Tarrant City, just north of downtown.

~Zach