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Old August 6th 03, 03:26 AM
Steven J. Sobol
 
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Default Weird - Stations on 44 *and* 45?


From 1988-1990, I was in college in Dayton, Ohio. At the time, there was a

5-year-old TV station (WRGT/45) which had just signed on as a FOX
affiliate.

Today I was at the website for another Dayton TV station, WHIO-TV 7. Their
website also has information on Dayton's UPN station. Dayton's UPN station
is apparently at Channel 44.

I've never heard of two TV stations in the same market separated by one
position on the dial. I know that for technical reasons, you can't do that
with radio, and I'm trying to figure out how it's being done here.

The Dayton FCC listing includes all of the stations that were there when
I was in school (2, 7, 16, 22, 45), an active HDTV license on Channel 30,
and HDTV applications on 41, 50 and 58. And there is an LP license on
Channel 66. Nothing on 44.

In Springfield, the other major city in the area (radio and TV stations
generally identify themselves as "WXYZ Dayton/Springfield"), I see a
WBDT-TV26, WBDT-DT18, and a couple miscellaneous LP licenses.

The only stuff I can find at Channel 44 in Ohio: WTLW-TV Lima,
WOUC-TV Cambridge, and W53BN Youngstown. There is not a single license
for Channel 44 *anywhere* near Dayton. Not in Montgomery County, not in
Clark County, not in any of the counties surrounding Dayton or
Springfield. In fact, there are only a handful of records referring to
TV44 anywhere in Ohio, according to the search I did on the FCC website.

I'm going to e-mail the station, but they have a note that "due to
the volume we receive, personal replies will not always be possible."

I hope someone answers my e-mail. I'm really curious about this.

References:

http://www.Fox45.com/
http://www.whiotv.com/upn44/

--
JustThe.net Internet & Multimedia Services
22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950
Steve Sobol, Proprietor
888.480.4NET (4638) * 248.724.4NET *



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Old August 6th 03, 03:14 PM
Doug Smith W9WI
 
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Steven J. Sobol wrote:
Today I was at the website for another Dayton TV station, WHIO-TV 7. Their
website also has information on Dayton's UPN station. Dayton's UPN station
is apparently at Channel 44.

I've never heard of two TV stations in the same market separated by one
position on the dial. I know that for technical reasons, you can't do that
with radio, and I'm trying to figure out how it's being done here.


I believe "UPN 44" is on cable only.
http://www.greaterdayton.com/localinfo.shtml (not conclusive but
suggestive)

The Dayton FCC listing includes all of the stations that were there when
I was in school (2, 7, 16, 22, 45), an active HDTV license on Channel 30,
and HDTV applications on 41, 50 and 58. And there is an LP license on
Channel 66. Nothing on 44.


I can't find anything about a over-the-air 44 there either.
================================================== =========
That said...

Such things are no longer impossible. It looks like part of the big
overhaul of the rules for DTV included relaxation of the channel-spacing
requirements.

Look, for example, at Philadelphia where WFPA-CA, a Class A (low-power
analog) station operates on channel 28 within a mile of full-power WTXF
channel 29. Or, in Boston, where full-power WFXT on channel 25 is
surrounded by low-power stations WFXZ-CA (24) and WHDN-LP (26). (they
even managed to shoehorn in a 3,000-watt LPTV on channel 3 in Boston,
between WGBH on 2 and WBZ on 4. W38CL tried to get a permit to use
channel 3 in the Bronx but failed...)

Even here in Nashville, we have a low-power station on channel 26 - a
full-power DTV on 27 - and a full-power analog about 30 miles east of
town on 28.

Now, you still can't use adjacent channels for full-power analog
stations. But you can definitely get a DTV in adjacent to a full-power
analog; and you can also get a low-power analog adjacent to a full-power
analog.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

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Old August 6th 03, 03:14 PM
Mike Ward
 
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Default

On 6 Aug 2003 02:26:31 GMT, "Steven J. Sobol"
wrote:

I've never heard of two TV stations in the same market separated by one
position on the dial. I know that for technical reasons, you can't do that
with radio, and I'm trying to figure out how it's being done here.


That's because it's NOT being done here... Dayton's "UPN 44" exists
solely on local cable TV. It just sounds odd, because most
"cable-only" broadcast-style stations aren't as high up as cable
position 44.

44, I believe, started off life as "MVC"... which I believe would
stand for "Miami Valley Cablevision". WHIO-TV - which runs it (Cox, I
think) - only recently started calling it "UPN 44".

Mike

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Old August 6th 03, 03:14 PM
Tony Calguire
 
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Default

Steven J. Sobol wrote:


Today I was at the website for another Dayton TV station, WHIO-TV 7. Their
website also has information on Dayton's UPN station. Dayton's UPN station
is apparently at Channel 44.



Apparently not... I'm not in Dayton, but your puzzle intrigued me. It
looks like the WHIO web site is the only place that makes any reference
to a "UPN 44", and notice there are no call letters, just "UPN44".

It looks like it's a cable-only station. If you go to one of the TV
listing sites and plug in a zipcode for Dayton, then choose a cable
system, you'll find a "MVC 44" listed on channel 44. Look at the
listings, and they're identical to the WHIO website's listings for UPN
44.

There's also a broadcast station called WWHO on channel 53, also a UPN
affiliate, but it doesn't appear to be carried on cable.

But getting back to your original point... there are not actually two
stations in Dayton on 44 and 45.

(There are some places where digital stations are on adjacent channels
to analog stations, but no adjacent-channel analog-analog or
digital-digital.)

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Old August 6th 03, 03:14 PM
CA was in NJ
 
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Steven J. Sobol wrote:

From 1988-1990, I was in college in Dayton, Ohio. At the time, there was a

5-year-old TV station (WRGT/45) which had just signed on as a FOX
affiliate.

Today I was at the website for another Dayton TV station, WHIO-TV 7. Their
website also has information on Dayton's UPN station. Dayton's UPN station
is apparently at Channel 44.

I've never heard of two TV stations in the same market separated by one
position on the dial. I know that for technical reasons, you can't do that
with radio, and I'm trying to figure out how it's being done here.


I don't think it is. It looks like the ch44 is one of those made-for-cable
stations.

There was something floating around either on one of these groups or maybe
at 100000watts.com about two non-comm FM's on the *same* channel on opposite
ends of a city.




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Old August 6th 03, 08:10 PM
Doug Smith W9WI
 
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CA was in NJ wrote:
There was something floating around either on one of these groups or maybe
at 100000watts.com about two non-comm FM's on the *same* channel on opposite
ends of a city.


There are two stations each on 88.1 and 88.3 in Chicago. I believe
you're correct that they're at opposite ends of the city. One of the
88.1's is a grandfathered Class D (10-watt) operation.

For good measure, there are six more 88.1's in Chicago suburbs and five
more 88.3's. Plus someone's managed to shoehorn in two pirates on 87.9...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

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Old August 6th 03, 11:17 PM
umarc
 
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Doug Smith W9WI writes:

Now, you still can't use adjacent channels for full-power analog
stations.


In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV)
Channel 5 as long as anyone can remember.


umar


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Old August 7th 03, 02:48 AM
Sid Schweiger
 
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In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV) Channel 5 as
long as anyone can remember.

TV Channels 4 and 5 are adjacent in number, but not in frequency. There's a
4-MHz gap between the high end of Channel 4 and the low end of Channel 5.

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Old August 7th 03, 02:48 AM
Garrett Wollman
 
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Default

In article , umarc wrote:

In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV)
Channel 5 as long as anyone can remember.


Channels 4 and 5 are not adjacent.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every
| generation can invoke its principles in their own
Opinions not those of| search for greater freedom.
MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. ___ (2003)

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Old August 7th 03, 02:48 AM
Vinyl Bytes
 
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Default


"umarc" wrote

In Boston, we've had WBZ-TV Channel 4 and WCVB (once WHDH-TV)
Channel 5 as long as anyone can remember.


Channels 4 and 5 aren't actually adjacent. There's 4 mHz of spectrum
in-between.
Channel 4 -- 66 to 72 mHz
Channel 5 -- 76 to 82 mHz

--
VB





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