"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...
Among a HUGE batch of major-change and new-station applications recently
released by the FCC is the application of WWVA-1170 (Wheeling, WV) to
move to Stow, Ohio.

Grant of said application would require that something happen to
WCUE-1150 in Cuyahoga Falls. Power reductions and/or pattern changes
wouldn't cut it, as Stow and Cuyahoga Falls *border on each other* - you
couldn't obtain a pattern tight enough to provide city-grade throughout
Stow without leaking enough into Cuyahoga Falls to interfere. And
vice-versa.

The proposed WWVA xmtr location is 20.6 miles NW of the WCUE xmtr location.
The WWVA xmtr is off the peak of the WCUE 6-tower pencil beam. The way I
read the rules the stations must have no more the 2 mV/m at the other's
25 mV/m contour and vv.

WWVA's proposed transmitter location and all other AM stations' are in the
latest AMSTNS data reflected in the M-FILES.ZIP available from my Web site
http://users.erols.com/rcarpen This data will allow you to plot the xmtr
locations on any version of DeLorme Street Atlas. From my site you can link
to Vehorn's web site to get the full AMSTNS info, or get just the patterns
from www.fccinfo.com .

None of which addresses your point about WWVA having COL-grade coverage at
Stow.
WWVA's proposed pattern is very broad, and not down very far toward Cuyahoga
Falls.
(or Stow). WCUE must not have a lot of sig at Stow because of its VERY
tight
pattern. The outdated info I have lists the Stow ZIP code as having a
population
of a bit over 30,000, but that includes a lot more than just Stow. Likewise
my
old population data shows just 32,000 for the Cuyahoga Falls ZIP. Could it
be
that neither of these towns has more than 10,000 in its INCORPORATED area -
and may thus require only 2 mV/m signal. Cuyahoga Falls is definitely in a
minor
lobe of WCUE's day signal. There may be an agreement to mutually accept
some
interference over small areas outside their COLs.

I can't imagine that WCUE is worth very much - could there be an agreement
to
purchase and take dark not reflected in the WWVA application?

I see no applications from WCUE in the database. In any case, I thought
the FCC summarily dismissed contingent applications? (applications
whose grant is contingent on the grant of some other application) I.e.,
WWVA's application would *have* to be dismissed unless WCUE is first
granted a frequency change or move to a new city-of-license.

On the other hand, I'm sure the engineering study for WWVA wasn't cheap
- and Clear Channel isn't known for wasting money filing impossible
technical changes. Obviously they've found *some* way they expect to
get this change through.

See above.

Also note that there is an application by WRTK for 1180 days from WABQ's
site in the NE suburbs of Cleveland.

bob c.

R J Carpenter wrote:
None of which addresses your point about WWVA having COL-grade coverage at
Stow.
WWVA's proposed pattern is very broad, and not down very far toward Cuyahoga
Falls.
(or Stow). WCUE must not have a lot of sig at Stow because of its VERY
tight
pattern. The outdated info I have lists the Stow ZIP code as having a
population
of a bit over 30,000, but that includes a lot more than just Stow. Likewise
my
old population data shows just 32,000 for the Cuyahoga Falls ZIP. Could it
be
that neither of these towns has more than 10,000 in its INCORPORATED area -
and may thus require only 2 mV/m signal. Cuyahoga Falls is definitely in a
minor
lobe of WCUE's day signal.

Comments from Clevelanders on another list indicate the incorporated
areas of the two towns border on each other. (Steven S., do you know if
this is true?)

The Census Bureau's map page says the 1990 population of Stow was 27,702
and of Cuyahoga Falls 48,950. (each spread across multiple ZIP codes)
I'd think that would mean the incorporated area but could be wrong.

I guess if they only need 2mV/m then it works out from WCUE's standpoint.

I can't imagine that WCUE is worth very much - could there be an agreement
to
purchase and take dark not reflected in the WWVA application?

My bet is this is what's going on. Maybe CC will hand over one of their
smaller Cleveland/Akron-area AMs in return?

Also note that there is an application by WRTK for 1180 days from WABQ's
site in the NE suburbs of Cleveland.

Yep, there are nearly 200 other applications for major changes. WWVA's
is the only one involving a 50,000-watt station, but there are some
other big ones, sometimes involving moves to different markets. For
example, KBLU-560 Yuma, Arizona to Nellis AFB (Las Vegas), Nevada. Or
WCSJ-1550 (Morris, Illinois) to Amado, Arizona on 670...

There's also a pile of applications for completely new stations. Some
of them in surprisingly large cities - for example, for a new Class C
station on 1400 in Philadelphia...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:

Comments from Clevelanders on another list indicate the incorporated
areas of the two towns border on each other. (Steven S., do you know if
this is true?)

Yes

The Census Bureau's map page says the 1990 population of Stow was 27,702
and of Cuyahoga Falls 48,950. (each spread across multiple ZIP codes)
I'd think that would mean the incorporated area but could be wrong.

My bet is this is what's going on. Maybe CC will hand over one of their
smaller Cleveland/Akron-area AMs in return?

Which one? They only own one Akron AM and one Cleveland AM.

--
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Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
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"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
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Steven J Sobol wrote:
Which one? They only own one Akron AM and one Cleveland AM.

I suppose the Akron one... (which one do they own?)

IIRC WTAM-1100 is their Cleveland AM - I'm sure they'll want to keep
that - but nothing in Akron comes anywhere near the proposed Stow
signal, IMHO they'd be glad to trade it to Family Stations if that gets
them approval for the 1170 move.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

On 30 Mar 2004 15:06:16 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

Steven J Sobol wrote:
Which one? They only own one Akron AM and one Cleveland AM.

I suppose the Akron one... (which one do they own?)

IIRC WTAM-1100 is their Cleveland AM - I'm sure they'll want to keep
that - but nothing in Akron comes anywhere near the proposed Stow
signal, IMHO they'd be glad to trade it to Family Stations if that gets
them approval for the 1170 move.

Clear Channel actually owns two AMs in this market (Akron). In
addition to WTOU "Fox Sports 1350" (the historic country WSLR), which
they picked up in the Barnstable deal with WKDD/96.5, they recently
bought WHLO/640 from Salem. WHLO was flipped to a news/talk format
shortly after the purchase.

My gut tells me that they won't give up either 640 or 1350 to Family
Radio...and that somehow they'll move or pay FR to shutter 1150 to get
the move accomplished.

Of course, since the Barnstable purchase, 96.5 - still licensed to
Akron - became Cleveland market "96.5 Kiss FM", and the WKDD
programming moved to 98.1 Canton...the former WHK-FM, once owned by
Salem.

My gut tells me that they won't give up either 640 or 1350 to Family
Radio...and that somehow they'll move or pay FR to shutter 1150 to get
the move accomplished.


Which is what they did in CA to get two co-channel 1150s off of L.A.'s 1150 in
order to do a 50/44 kW upgrade there.

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:

Or WCSJ-1550 (Morris, Illinois) to Amado, Arizona on 670...

Am I reading this right? Somebody wants to move a station across 6 states?

Checking FCC site. Yeah, that's what they want to do.

This is completely assinine. Why not just apply for a new station?

"CA was in NJ"
SHOT_ON_SIGHT wrote in
message ...

Am I reading this right? Somebody wants to move a station across 6
states?

Checking FCC site. Yeah, that's what they want to do.

This is completely assinine. Why not just apply for a new station?


Because of all the noise on the AM band, the FCC will not authorize a new AM
station.

geoff

Geoff Brozny wrote:

Because of all the noise on the AM band, the FCC will not authorize a new AM
station.

What I want to know is what CCU hopes to add. Most of the AM stations in
Cleveland are crap.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
Domain Names, $9.95/yr, 24x7 service: http://DomainNames.JustThe.net/
"someone once called me a sofa, but i didn't feel compelled to rush out and buy
slip covers." -adam brower * Hiroshima '45, Chernobyl '86, Windows 98/2000/2003

Geoff Brozny wrote:
Because of all the noise on the AM band, the FCC will not authorize a new AM
station.

That must be news to the 893 people who filed applications for new
stations earlier this year, in cities as large as Philadelphia...

(I have heard some speculation that the ultra-long-distance moves like
Mississippi=Arizona are typos.)
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com