Rich Wood wrote:

On 23 Sep 2004 07:02:40 GMT, Mark Crispin
wrote:


FOX News is not "conservative" media. A Yale University study on media
bias showed that, while FOX is right-of-center, it is was no more to the
right than USA Today is left-of-center. CBS is much further to the left.
FOX News is actually closer to the center than any other TV news.

There is no conservative news channel.


Damn! Tha must be good weed you're smoking!



It's actually true. There are of course conservative
talk shows. But no actual "news channel" that is
consistently substantially to right of center. That's
exactly what the previously quoted showed.

All except Fox and MSNBC are very far left of center.

People who say things like "Fox is right wing" are
simply WRONG. They are weong because they are using
a cloud cookoo land definition of center. That is, they
simply assign themselves ... quite left wing people ...
as center.

Whe you ACTUALLY look at the real world, for example,
the Congress, Fox is very close to the center. If you
look at all the people, same result.

Doug McDonald

There are of course conservative talk shows. But no actual "news channel" that
is consistently substantially to right of center. That's exactly what the
previously quoted showed.

It showed nothing of the sort. All it CLAIMED was that FNC is not slanted to
the right. No proof was offered.

But, you just keep right on believing it if you want. Everyone is entitled to
their fantasy.

to quote an earlier poster, damn, that must be good weed you're smoking.



"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...
Rich Wood wrote:

On 23 Sep 2004 07:02:40 GMT, Mark Crispin
wrote:


FOX News is not "conservative" media. A Yale University study on media
bias showed that, while FOX is right-of-center, it is was no more to the
right than USA Today is left-of-center. CBS is much further to the
left.
FOX News is actually closer to the center than any other TV news.

There is no conservative news channel.


Damn! Tha must be good weed you're smoking!



It's actually true. There are of course conservative
talk shows. But no actual "news channel" that is
consistently substantially to right of center. That's
exactly what the previously quoted showed.

All except Fox and MSNBC are very far left of center.

People who say things like "Fox is right wing" are
simply WRONG. They are weong because they are using
a cloud cookoo land definition of center. That is, they
simply assign themselves ... quite left wing people ...
as center.

Whe you ACTUALLY look at the real world, for example,
the Congress, Fox is very close to the center. If you
look at all the people, same result.

Doug McDonald

Steve wrote:

to quote an earlier poster, damn, that must be good weed you're smoking.


Whe you ACTUALLY look at the real world, for example,
the Congress, Fox is very close to the center. If you
look at all the people, same result.


Actually, as I quoted from a scientific study, I am
correct.

People who think Fox is right wing are generally
from very close to the coasts, in areas where Fox really
is right of the center for that local groups of people.

Go to Alabama or Wyoming and you will find Fox to
be well to the left of the center of those people.
Limbaugh would be closer to their center. When
you average over the whole USA, as represented in
Congress, Fox is centrist.

Doug McDonald

"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...

Actually, as I quoted from a scientific study, I am
correct.

That study is, to put it politely, bunk. First, there was absolutely no
attempt to measure whether Congress is really a good reflection of the views
of the American public. (And no, it's not self-evident just because "we
elected them".) Second, there was no attempt to show that the rate of
quoting publications of think tanks is a valid or useful measure of the
political views of members of Congress, or of the media. And those are just
the first two fundamental flaws that could be noticed right away.

A "scientific" study should account for all such things, or not try to make
claims about something that it is not measuring -- a real scientific paper
would have only been titled "A Comparison of Quotation Rates from Think
Tanks Between Congress and Major Media", wouldn't have editorialized about
its results, and wouldn't have claimed to have greater meaning than it
really did. Such a paper would also be peer reviewed before publication,
which this paper was not. In addition, any true scientific study would not
be widely accepted as fact until it had been even further reviewed, all
experiments re-run by other researchers for confirmation, parallel
experiments and data collection done to corroborate from different angles,
and thoroughly gone over and re-tested and re-analyzed until its results
were considered ironclad. At this point, the paper in question is nothing
but opinion with some selected statistics to back it up, and you know what
they say about statistics...

Even if it does say something about the relative positions of the news media
to Congress in terms of quotation rates from think tanks, it is just as
likely saying something about how conservative Congress is as about how
liberal the media is.

But I think it is mainly saying that right-wing think tanks are quoted a lot
precisely because they are nothing but influence organizations. Traditional
think tanks (like Brookings and Rand) primarily existed to do research.
Modern Republican think tanks (like Heritage, American Enterprise, and
Cato), exist to further a conservative political view, and to publicize and
promote that view. They generally spend more on PR than they do on research,
so it's no surprise they have a lot of visibility (as that's the entire
purpose of PR).

People who think Fox is right wing are generally
from very close to the coasts, in areas where Fox really
is right of the center for that local groups of people.

Go to Alabama or Wyoming and you will find Fox to
be well to the left of the center of those people.
Limbaugh would be closer to their center. When
you average over the whole USA, as represented in
Congress, Fox is centrist.

You may be right that progressivism is more concentrated near the coasts,
but an awful lot of people live in those areas. There are 70 times as many
people in California as in Wyoming, for instance, and almost 8 times as many
as in Alabama.

"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:

Whe you ACTUALLY look at the real world, for example,
the Congress, Fox is very close to the center. If you
look at all the people, same result.

Actually, as I quoted from a scientific study, I am
correct.

People who think Fox is right wing are generally
from very close to the coasts, in areas where Fox really
is right of the center for that local groups of people.

Go to Alabama or Wyoming and you will find Fox to
be well to the left of the center of those people.
Limbaugh would be closer to their center. When
you average over the whole USA, as represented in
Congress, Fox is centrist.

By that logic, then, a cool day on Venus would be somewhere around 350C, rather than
400C.

You can't measure the centre based on the average of a pre-selected group.
Left/right, when considering politics, can be easily determined in a vacuum if you
look at the policies and values of each group. Conservatives view the world as
entirely self-actuated, self-rewarded and assumed risk at the individual level.
Facism extends this concept to business, where the relationship between government
and business is distinctly favoured over individual rights. Socialists and, going
further, communists (and not the Soviet kind) view the world as mutually-actuated,
mutually-shared rewards and mutually-shared risk. By that measure, Congress is
distinctly conservative, FOX News is clearly right-wing, and we're all going to hell.

CBS, as is the case for all legitimate news organisations, is better at covering a
story with balance and provides opportunities to hear opposing views. FOX exhibits
no such behaviour. And Steve is right.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know you're not
living in a free society.
Kim Campbell - ex-Prime Minister of Canada - 2004
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For direct replies, take out the contents between the hyphens. -Really!-

Bob Haberkost wrote:


CBS, as is the case for all legitimate news organisations, is better at covering a
story with balance and provides opportunities to hear opposing views.

You are joking. CBS NEVER presents the conservative point of view.
It ALWAYS treats subjects from the left wing viewpoint. It is true
that very occasionally they ask a conservative to utter words ...
but they actually treat the news and also "features" from a left
wing viewpoint. They do NOT cover stories with balance.

If you think they do, you are a severe liberal.

You cannot be a balanced news organization without covering
stories that are interesting and held close to the heart of
conservatives, such as the right to life for unborn children,
treating them as being the right side. CBS may talk about
right wing subjects ... BUT THEY ASSUME THAT THE LEFT WING
POSITION ON THE ISSUE IS THE CORRECT ONE.

And have you EVER heard CBS breaking a big story attacking
Kerry with forged documents?

Doug McDonald

"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...
Bob Haberkost wrote:


CBS, as is the case for all legitimate news organisations, is better at
covering a
story with balance and provides opportunities to hear opposing views.

You are joking. CBS NEVER presents the conservative point of view.
It ALWAYS treats subjects from the left wing viewpoint. It is true
that very occasionally they ask a conservative to utter words ...
but they actually treat the news and also "features" from a left
wing viewpoint. They do NOT cover stories with balance.

If you think they do, you are a severe liberal.

You cannot be a balanced news organization without covering
stories that are interesting and held close to the heart of
conservatives, such as the right to life for unborn children,
treating them as being the right side. CBS may talk about
right wing subjects ... BUT THEY ASSUME THAT THE LEFT WING
POSITION ON THE ISSUE IS THE CORRECT ONE.

And have you EVER heard CBS breaking a big story attacking
Kerry with forged documents?

Doug McDonald

Has anyone ever offered CBS forged documents which attack Kerry? CBS does in
fact air GOP sponsored commercials which are full of forged interpretations
of Kerry's politics.

"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...

You are joking. CBS NEVER presents the conservative point of view.
It ALWAYS treats subjects from the left wing viewpoint. It is true
that very occasionally they ask a conservative to utter words ...
but they actually treat the news and also "features" from a left
wing viewpoint. They do NOT cover stories with balance.

If you think they do, you are a severe liberal.

You cannot be a balanced news organization without covering
stories that are interesting and held close to the heart of
conservatives, such as the right to life for unborn children,
treating them as being the right side. CBS may talk about
right wing subjects ... BUT THEY ASSUME THAT THE LEFT WING
POSITION ON THE ISSUE IS THE CORRECT ONE.

And have you EVER heard CBS breaking a big story attacking
Kerry with forged documents?

Doug McDonald

Sigh. You are a Chemistry professor, no? What do you think of the
"Intelligent Design" movement?

"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...
Steve wrote:


Whe you ACTUALLY look at the real world, for example,
the Congress, Fox is very close to the center. If you
look at all the people, same result.

Actually, as I quoted from a scientific study, I am
correct.

People who think Fox is right wing are generally
from very close to the coasts, in areas where Fox really
is right of the center for that local groups of people.


Go to Alabama or Wyoming and you will find Fox to
be well to the left of the center of those people.
Limbaugh would be closer to their center. When
you average over the whole USA, as represented in
Congress, Fox is centrist.

By that logic, then, a cool day on Venus would be somewhere around 350C, rather than
400C.

You can't measure the centre based on the average of a pre-selected group.
Left/right, when considering politics, can be easily determined in a vacuum if you
look at the policies and values of each group. Conservatives view the world as
entirely self-actuated, self-rewarded and assumed risk at the individual level.
Facism extends this concept to business, where the relationship between government
and business is distinctly favoured over individual rights. Socialists and, going
further, communists (and not the Soviet kind) view the world as mutually-actuated,
mutually-shared rewards and mutually-shared risk. By that measure, Congress is
distinctly conservative, FOX News is clearly right-wing, and we're all going to hell.

CBS, as is the case for all legitimate news organisations, is better at covering a
story with balance and provides opportunities to hear opposing views. FOX exhibits
no such behaviour. And Steve is right.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there's nothing that offends you in your community, then you know you're not
living in a free society.
Kim Campbell - ex-Prime Minister of Canada - 2004
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
For direct replies, take out the contents between the hyphens. -Really!-