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killing cars with high RF?
Hi,
What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX |
killing cars with high RF?
"KE5MBX" wrote:
At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
Steveo wrote:
"KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. |
killing cars with high RF?
On 12 Feb 2007 15:17:37 -0800, "KE5MBX" wrote
in . com: Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? Ok, this is a bit long: Most of the newer instrument clusters (circa '90 and later) are really sensitive to both static -and- RF, and are -not- shielded. Some engine computers are also sensitive to RF (screws with the high-impedance signal from the oxygen sensor). Even some anti-lock brake modules can be disrupted by a strong signal. Begin rant: The SAE sure had its head up its ass when they allowed junk like that to be made. Very few of these systems (if any) were ever recalled because it is almost impossible to prove liability in any case of failure due to RF. And the US Supreme Court ruled recently that a few "accidental" deaths are an acceptable risk in corporate business practices, releasing auto makers from liability for unsafe vehicles provided that the problem is fixed after being discovered. Therefore, new auto systems are tested for safety by the consumers who buy new vehicles -- a system is proven "safe" if it doesn't cause any financial liability (i.e, injuries and/or fatalities directly attributable to the faulty system). One would hope that there is some sort of saftey process that needs to be done -before- a new auto system is implemented, like what the FDA does with drugs. But there isn't. And to think that people would rather whine about a little tobacco smoke..... End rant. So how much power is too much power? There's no definitive answer. I have seen brake failure with as little as 60 watts on VHF-hi (a Ford). Remembering that the auto makers are mostly responsible for any such problems, you will just have to use your best judgment. Follow the rules that say to use the least amount of power, and to use good engineering practices. |
killing cars with high RF?
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote
in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. |
killing cars with high RF?
jim wrote:
Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. That's my spark gap. -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
Frank Gilliland wrote:
snipper I have seen brake failure with as little as 60 watts on VHF-hi (a Ford). Really? That's whacked. How the hell did you see it? -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
Frank Gilliland wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
Steveo wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe |
killing cars with high RF?
jim wrote:
Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe You know it, got my toes in the sand loud and proud. 10-8. :) -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
Steveo wrote:
jim wrote: Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe You know it, got my toes in the sand loud and proud. 10-8. :) sounding like twist. |
killing cars with high RF?
jim wrote:
Steveo wrote: jim wrote: Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe You know it, got my toes in the sand loud and proud. 10-8. :) sounding like twist. I can only hope. -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
On 13 Feb 2007 01:47:56 GMT, Steveo wrote in
: Frank Gilliland wrote: snipper I have seen brake failure with as little as 60 watts on VHF-hi (a Ford). Really? That's whacked. How the hell did you see it? Happened when I was working at a 2-way shop in Oregon. Since the auto makers dumped the responsibility of RF compatibility onto the radio makers, the procedure (as described in the manuals) for installing a commercial radio into -any- vehicle requires that it be driven and keyed up with the brakes applied. One failed the test. |
killing cars with high RF?
Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 13 Feb 2007 01:47:56 GMT, Steveo wrote in : Frank Gilliland wrote: snipper I have seen brake failure with as little as 60 watts on VHF-hi (a Ford). Really? That's whacked. How the hell did you see it? Happened when I was working at a 2-way shop in Oregon. Since the auto makers dumped the responsibility of RF compatibility onto the radio makers, the procedure (as described in the manuals) for installing a commercial radio into -any- vehicle requires that it be driven and keyed up with the brakes applied. One failed the test. Was there fluid in the master cylinder on that one? In other words, could it have been the brakes were bad to begin with? How many were tested? -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
Steveo wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote: One failed the test. Was there fluid in the master cylinder on that one? Errr only Fords' are susceptible to RF brake killings? g -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
On 13 Feb 2007 03:38:06 GMT, Steveo wrote in
: Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: One failed the test. Was there fluid in the master cylinder on that one? Yep. Mechanic checked it out completely. It was the radio. Errr only Fords' are susceptible to RF brake killings? g Beats me. I would suppose it can happen with other makes since the manuals (Motorola, GE, Uniden, etc.) say to test -all- vehicles. But I have also seen GM cars/trucks get screwed up -without- a radio due to RFI from the vehicle's own harness wreaking havoc on the oxygen sensor wire. I rewire all O2 wires with teflon coax just to be sure. And I don't think I would do fiberglass hood & fenders without wrapping the entire harness in some sort of shielding. These modern electrical system are proving to be just too fragile for me. Over the winter I've been building up a 4.3 with a Q-jet for the S10, and as soon as spring gets here I'm going to drop it in and gut the truck of all that computer crap. You can color me retro, but don't color me stranded on the side of the road because some overpriced sensor got plugged with a little road dust! |
killing cars with high RF?
Frank Gilliland wrote:
On 13 Feb 2007 03:38:06 GMT, Steveo wrote in : Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: One failed the test. Was there fluid in the master cylinder on that one? Yep. Mechanic checked it out completely. It was the radio. Errr only Fords' are susceptible to RF brake killings? g Beats me. I would suppose it can happen with other makes since the manuals 50 watt break killers. Must be the pacific ocean spray enhancing the footprint. -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
"jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark |
killing cars with high RF?
"jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe With the lime green car he might, otherwise they'll deport him...........LOL!!! Landshark |
killing cars with high RF?
"Steveo" wrote in message ... jim wrote: Steveo wrote: jim wrote: Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe You know it, got my toes in the sand loud and proud. 10-8. :) sounding like twist. I can only hope Not going to happen. Too dark of hair, too short of hair and worst of .........Mud Duck! Landshark |
killing cars with high RF?
On 13 Feb 2007 03:38:06 GMT, Steveo wrote:
+++Steveo wrote: +++ Frank Gilliland wrote: +++ One failed the test. +++ +++ Was there fluid in the master cylinder on that one? +++ +++Errr only Fords' are susceptible to RF brake killings? g *********** No Dodge Ram pickup trtrucks are also. It states in my owners manual to be careful in installing any RF transmitters such as to not interfere with the ABS brakes. Chrysler reccomends less than 100watts but is not specific on an exact wattage that can cause failure of the ABS. This is in my opinion a move to protect themselves from lawsuits if a failure was induced from RF. They can say "We told you so" Back in the 70's when Eaton came out with ABS for tractor/trailer setups they did have some ABS failures due to high RF field environments. Mostly lockups were the isuses. In todays market it is easier for the auto makers to put the emphasis on the owner to not u se highpowered RF transmitters in the vehicles, than it is to increase cost to fix a potential problem. james |
killing cars with high RF?
Landshark wrote:
"jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... |
killing cars with high RF?
KE5MBX wrote:
Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX I've used a 667 on 11 in my Jeep. It did not like the intense voltage swings caused by being on sideband. My headlights would get dim and real bright, so I moved to a smaller box before I blew up my ECM. I've had no problems with a few hundred watts on 11 meters, 50 watts on 2 meters and 35 watts on 440. Antennas are left rear for 11 (and 10), left front for 2 meters and right front for 440. Someday, I'll add one on the right rear for 6 meters if I ever get a 6 meter radio. Since I never listen to commercial FM (too many commercials), the FM antenna is connected to the scanner. I'll be populating 28.365 on February 23, 24 & 25. It seems the popular meeting place on 10 meters will be 1 MHz higher then where we've all spent so many years. (28.365/375/385/395) On the 24th, I go to the paperwork upgrade session and go straight to the top. |
killing cars with high RF?
On Feb 12, 5:17 pm, "KE5MBX" wrote:
Hi, What's all this business I hear people talking about blasting people's car stereos or killing cars altogether with high-power RF? I run 2m, 10m, and 11m in my jeep and I'd like to sort out the fact from the legend and find out what kind of power I can use without risking damage to my jeep or cars around me. At what power level is front-end overload to a nearby radio likely? At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? I am currently using only 50 watts on a 5/8 wave (2m), 25w on a 1/4 wave (10m), legal 4w on a 1/4 wave (11m) Thanks, Nelson KE5MBX When I worked for Motorola AIEG (Automotive Group)... I did quite a bit of testing of RF susceptability of engine controller modules that Motorola made for Ford Motor Co. We used a giant stripline that was powered by an RF sweep generator. We characterized disruptions caused by RF fields under the stripline... while the engine controller was running (simulation of real vehicle). Back then... it took about 200V/ meter of field strength... only at certain frequencies to cause major module hiccups. Don't know how modern day modules fare against similar fields. One thing I do know... in my current car repair manuals... it warns against operating "high power" transmitters... warning that the air bag may deploy. I guess that's how you know if you're really gettin' out... when the air bag leaves the imprint of the microphone on your face... lol www.telstar-electronics.com |
killing cars with high RF?
"Landshark" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message ... jim wrote: Steveo wrote: jim wrote: Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe You know it, got my toes in the sand loud and proud. 10-8. :) sounding like twist. I can only hope Not going to happen. Too dark of hair, too short of hair and worst of .........Mud Duck! Landshark HAHA! Quack Quack -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
"Landshark" wrote:
"jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe With the lime green car he might, otherwise they'll deport him...........LOL!!! Landshark That mibgt be a popular color down yonder! :) -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
jim wrote:
Landshark wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... He probably can't find it in yuppie-land! -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
|
killing cars with high RF?
Steveo wrote:
jim wrote: Landshark wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... He probably can't find it in yuppie-land! actually had a laff at that. wonder if they like their bean sprouts al dente'. |
killing cars with high RF?
"Steveo" wrote in message ... "Landshark" wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: Frank Gilliland wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 19:33:03 -0500, jim wrote in : Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. And Brian says it's gotta be at least 9 square feet. Only wear that one south of the border. you'd blend right in hehehe With the lime green car he might, otherwise they'll deport him...........LOL!!! Landshark That mibgt be a popular color down yonder! :) "It's no fun, being an illegal alien" Genesis Landshark |
killing cars with high RF?
"Steveo" wrote in message ... jim wrote: Landshark wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... He probably can't find it in yuppie-land Oh we can find it out here, it's just we have to go to the slum side of the beer section to look for it ................... Landshark |
killing cars with high RF?
"jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: jim wrote: Landshark wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... He probably can't find it in yuppie-land! actually had a laff at that. wonder if they like their bean sprouts al dente'. Cough cough, puke, spit, drink another good beer..........LMAO!!!! Yup, rolling rock, the east coast version of porter beer ;) Landshark |
killing cars with high RF?
"jim" wrote in message ... Landshark wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... They have some sort of brew that's fine??????? These are a LOT better brews: http://www.avbc.com/beers/amber.html http://www.sierranevada.com/beers/paleale.html http://www.ratebeer.com/brewers/the-...ke-tahoe/2563/ http://www.tiedhouse.com/beers/orig.html http://www.gordonbiersch.com/brewery/beer/index.html Shall I go on?????????????????? LOL!!!!!!!! Landshark |
killing cars with high RF?
Telstar Electronics wrote:
One thing I do know... in my current car repair manuals... it warns against operating "high power" transmitters... warning that the air bag may deploy. I guess that's how you know if you're really gettin' out... when the air bag leaves the imprint of the microphone on your face... lol LMAO! When you pull 90 amps in spurts like I did on sideband with a 667V, it makes me wonder how I didn't pop my airbombs or kill my ECM! But I was gettin' out! Also, for a blank sun, DX was rolling pretty good. I made contact with a guy 8000 feet up in New Mexico. Eight more days to the big 10 meter fest! Hear me there... |
killing cars with high RF?
Cough cough, puke, spit, drink another good beer..........LMAO!!!! Yup,
rolling rock, the east coast version of porter beer ;) Landshark You can always puke Old Milwaukee on your shoes. |
killing cars with high RF?
"Steveo" wrote...
Frank Gilliland wrote: snipper I have seen brake failure with as little as 60 watts on VHF-hi (a Ford). Really? That's whacked. How the hell did you see it? He was the one testing the theory out as the car passed by :~) A few years back, here in the UK, there was a story on the news about how our police had problems with their radio equipment killing the engines on their cars. That would have made a great scene for a comedy cop film. Speaking of comedy cop films, the film "Hot Fuzz" looks good. It has the writers and some of the actors from "Shaun Of The Dead", along with some other big Brit actors. Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
"Steveo" wrote...
50 watt break killers. A good businessman would see an opportunity there. Do you ever bet on the outcome of motor races? :~) Peter. |
killing cars with high RF?
jim wrote:
Steveo wrote: jim wrote: Landshark wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... He probably can't find it in yuppie-land! actually had a laff at that. wonder if they like their bean sprouts al dente'. To go along with their tofu burgers? -- http://NewsReader.Com/ |
killing cars with high RF?
"Landshark" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message ... jim wrote: Landshark wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... He probably can't find it in yuppie-land Oh we can find it out here, it's just we have to go to the slum side of the beer section to look for it ................... Landshark Stick with your wine and cheese. |
killing cars with high RF?
"Landshark" wrote:
"jim" wrote in message ... Landshark wrote: "jim" wrote in message ... Steveo wrote: "KE5MBX" wrote: At what power level is damage likely, and to what componets? And how thick should the led shield around me be? just make sure your tinfoil hat is properly grounded. Give him a few of those **** water rolling rocks and that's a possibility. :P Landshark someone has a hardon against Latrobes finest... They have some sort of brew that's fine??????? These are a LOT better brews: http://www.avbc.com/beers/amber.html http://www.sierranevada.com/beers/paleale.html http://www.ratebeer.com/brewers/the-...ke-tahoe/2563/ http://www.tiedhouse.com/beers/orig.html http://www.gordonbiersch.com/brewery/beer/index.html Shall I go on?????????????????? LOL!!!!!!!! Landshark NO! Enough yuppie swill! |
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