Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 17:50:31 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
. com:

On Jul 5, 2:14 pm, " Peter" wrote:
If your critics offer you their money, so they can offend
themselves with your product... take it and lol all the way
to the bank.
Regards,
Peter.

Peter,
You can bet Frank knows the device works if he's willing to shell out
his hard earned money for it... no matter what he says here.


Brian, I have -never- said the thing didn't work. I -did- say that
your claims of what it can do are impossible. I can't wait to hook it
up to the radio and watch the modulation meter dance as I talk,
contrary to your claim that I will maintain 100% modulation 100% of
the time. It will be fun to hook it up to the distortion analyzer and
graph what you claim is less than 1% THD. I might even make a .wav of
my own voice, processed by your gizmo, as it's heard by the receiver.

But the most fun will come when I post the results and watch you try
and shovel a large pile of techno-turds trying to defend against how
your box -really- works.


I just find it comical that he blatently says one thing and then does
another. I guess he figures nobody will notice... lol


On the contrary, I hope EVERYONE will notice.... "lol".


And the sad part is... they might not out here on this group!


Thanks for the tip, Brian -- I think I'll post the results to a web
page as well, along with one of my favorite quotes from you:

"Now how did I know that Frank wouldn't have any ideas...
I guess he's too busy working on his Master's degree... LOL !"


BTW, where's that schematic?

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 5, 8:23 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
But the most fun will come when I post the results and watch you try
and shovel a large pile of techno-turds trying to defend against how
your box -really- works.

Frank, I think you have already written your review... before the
product is even available.
I believe that even the dullest of folks out here know that your
review wouldn't be worth the "bandwidth it's printed on"... lol

P.S. How's your master's degree from the College of Culinary Arts
coming? Did you ever perfect your french pronounciation of "Do you
want fries with that"?

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

Thanks for your continued interest in the VoiceMax Speech Processor
Module...
http://www.telstar-electronics.com/d...evelopment.htm

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:13:40 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
.com:

On Jul 5, 8:23 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
But the most fun will come when I post the results and watch you try
and shovel a large pile of techno-turds trying to defend against how
your box -really- works.

Frank, I think you have already written your review... before the
product is even available.
I believe that even the dullest of folks out here know that your
review wouldn't be worth the "bandwidth it's printed on"... lol


Why don't you ask Twistedhed about that one. I fought him for years on
a political issue only to find out that I was wrong. I still disagree
with his freebanding, but when I'm proven wrong, at least -he- knows
that I'll stand up and take my punches.

I'm giving you a chance to prove me wrong, Brian. If you product works
like you say it does, and it doesn't cost you any money, why in the
world -wouldn't- you be willing to sell me one?


P.S. How's your master's degree from the College of Culinary Arts
coming? Did you ever perfect your french pronounciation of "Do you
want fries with that"?


No, but last March I did finish a study on EM wave interference
pattern and polarization interactions in atmospheric media of varying
ionization. It was a joint project with the meteorology department in
the study of weather radar, with extended applications to satellite
communications. Got any opinions on the subject, Brian?

Oh, and where's that schematic for your non-linear linear?


Thanks for your continued interest in the VoiceMax Speech Processor
Module...
http://www.telspam-electronics.com/d...evelopment.htm


Yeah, I didn't think you wanted to go there.

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 6, 7:58 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
Yeah, I didn't think you wanted to go there.

You're right Frank... I don't want to go anywhere with you.
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 5, 1:13 pm, " Peter" wrote:
"cmdr buzz corey" wrote...



You can't change the average level without changing the waveform.

Bovine excrement.

An amplifier will increase the average level, but by increasing all
levels. As many references make clear (some listed below), an
amplifier does NOT change the waveform.

Then you aren't processing the speech waveform, just amplifying it. If
you want to process the waveform for more average power, then the
waveform has to be changed.

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 7, 2:41 pm, cmdr buzz corey
wrote:
Then you aren't processing the speech waveform, just amplifying it. If
you want to process the waveform for more average power, then the
waveform has to be changed.

That's not true. The audio waveform is a sine wave. In the VoiceMax,
the processed waveform is still made up of sine waves... but the
levels are different from the oroginal signal. The low levels are
higher... and the very high levels are lower. A good speech processor
essentially flattens the output at a desired level... without
excessive harmonic distortion.
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 12:55:58 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
.com:

On Jul 7, 2:41 pm, cmdr buzz corey
wrote:
Then you aren't processing the speech waveform, just amplifying it. If
you want to process the waveform for more average power, then the
waveform has to be changed.

That's not true. The audio waveform is a sine wave.


Only if it's a single tone of constant amplitude.


In the VoiceMax,
the processed waveform is still made up of sine waves... but the
levels are different from the oroginal signal. The low levels are
higher... and the very high levels are lower. A good speech processor
essentially flattens the output at a desired level... without
excessive harmonic distortion.


That's such an oversimplification that it's flat-out wrong. What you
are saying is just like if you adjusted your computer monitor or TV by
turning the contrast all the way down, the brightness all the way up,
then telling people that it's a better picture despite the fact that
it's worse.

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 7, 5:47 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
That's such an oversimplification that it's flat-out wrong. What you
are saying is just like if you adjusted your computer monitor or TV by
turning the contrast all the way down, the brightness all the way up,
then telling people that it's a better picture despite the fact that
it's worse.


Your TV analogy makes no sense and has nothing to do with this
discussion... but what else is new... lol
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 16:49:13 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
. com:

On Jul 4, 10:37 am, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
No, I don't. That's why I want to run it through the bench. The only
thing I'm sure that works is the noise gate, but I still don't see the
point since all it does is shut off the audio when you're not talking
to eliminate ambient noise. And it's that ambient noise that let's the
other guy know that you're still keyed up. A noise gate would make
your radio sound like a cheap speaker phone, or that crappy digital
voice from Comcast. Hey, here's an idea -- when you're done talking,
why not just unkey the mic?

Well... I still don't know why you would want to bench test something
that you have said doesn't work from day one. But that aside... let's
talk about the significance of the noise gate. Your understanding of
the way the noise gate works is correct.


I know it's correct, Brian. I've been working with them for longer
than you've been living with your parents.


When the audio falls below a
user-defined threshold... the audio mutes. If you stop to think that
the VoiceMax has very high gain in the AGC... you realize that any low-
level background sound will be greatly amplified... up to around
+60dB. Without the noise gate... the hissing and wind noise in the
background between words would be extremely distracting. The
background noise detracts intelligibility from the voice signal. This
blocking of background noise between words helps the vocal clarity of
the transmission. It's really quite effective .. and the audio quality
is excellent.


No, it isn't. What you are doing is muting the ambient noise only when
the voice is loud enough to trigger the gate. Once the gate is open,
both voice -AND- noise are passed. What it sounds like to the human
ear is distorted audio because the audio "processor" in your brain
hears the noise only with the voice and associates the two as one.

Noise gates have their place, such as stage audio applications where
ambient noise is perceived as distorting the -desired- sounds. That's
what it was designed to do. Your processor does exactly the opposite
by making the noise audible with, and -only- with, the desired sounds.


It certainly doesn't sound like a cheap speakerphone.
The speakerphone is quite different as the the person is quite a
distance from the mic in that application. This does present a big
problem... since the S/N ratio in that appliaction is very poor.


Say what?


That's why speakerphones sound hollow... due to room acoustics... and
many times are choppy on transmit/receive... because of the poor S/N
ratio... and therefore very critical threshold setting.


Not even close. Speakerphones sound choppy (like the noise gate in
your "processor") because they are voice-operated half-duplex. They
sound "hollow" because of the filtering needed to prevent the thing
from triggering it's own VOX.


So far there
are eight pre-production units in the field right now. I haven't had
one complaint or problem.


That's because nobody can hear you. Not suprising when your antenna's
ground plane is only 9 square feet.....


I have two installed in both my Cobra19 and
Cobra25 using the stock mic on one... and the Astatic 636L on the
other. They both work like a million bucks. I have the audio of a
power mic... without all the background noise. In my book... that's
the best of both worlds. My on-air experiences so far in the past few
months have substantiated my beliefs that the clarity is enhanced. I
came to that conclusion knowing how much less I've had to repeat
transmissions.


How about a testimonial from some of the people on the other end?


Oh, and where's that schematic, Brian?

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:13:49 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote in
:

snip
... What you are doing is muting the ambient noise only when
the voice is loud enough to trigger the gate.


Correction: What you are doing is muting the ambient noise only when
the voice -isn't- loud enough to trigger the gate.

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:56:07 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
.com:

On Jul 7, 5:47 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
That's such an oversimplification that it's flat-out wrong. What you
are saying is just like if you adjusted your computer monitor or TV by
turning the contrast all the way down, the brightness all the way up,
then telling people that it's a better picture despite the fact that
it's worse.


Your TV analogy makes no sense and has nothing to do with this
discussion... but what else is new... lol


Well, let's see what you said originally:

In the VoiceMax,
the processed waveform is still made up of sine waves...


Just like a video signal.


but the
levels are different from the oroginal signal. The low levels are
higher... and the very high levels are lower.


Same as turning down the contrast. Brights are dimmer, darks are
lighter. Then you push the average modulation up to 100% which is no
different than turning up the brightness. It's a perfect analogy,
Brian..... "LOL"

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:56:07 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
.com:

On Jul 7, 5:47 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
That's such an oversimplification that it's flat-out wrong. What you
are saying is just like if you adjusted your computer monitor or TV by
turning the contrast all the way down, the brightness all the way up,
then telling people that it's a better picture despite the fact that
it's worse.


Your TV analogy makes no sense and has nothing to do with this
discussion... but what else is new... lol


Well, let's see what you said originally:

In the VoiceMax,
the processed waveform is still made up of sine waves...


Just like a video signal.


but the
levels are different from the oroginal signal. The low levels are
higher... and the very high levels are lower.


Same as turning down the contrast. Brights are dimmer, darks are
lighter. Then you push the average modulation up to 100% which is no
different than turning up the brightness. It's a perfect analogy,
Brian..... "LOL"




So basically, what you end up with is unintelligible hash?

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 7, 7:51 pm, "Yo Mamma" wrote:
So basically, what you end up with is unintelligible hash?

Just like Frank's posts... lol
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 7, 6:13 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
How about a testimonial from some of the people on the other end?

How about some feedback from ebay customers who bought some of the pre-
production units...
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 08:14:19 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
. com:

On Jul 7, 6:13 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
How about a testimonial from some of the people on the other end?

How about some feedback from ebay customers who bought some of the pre-
production units...
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller


How about some feedback from a customer (not a shill) after they have
installed it and used it for a couple months in the real world? Or,
even better, how about from some of the people on the other end (i.e,
the RECEIVING end -- why do I have to spell it out for you?)?

And what happened to the rest of my post? You know, the part about how
the human brain functions in a way that the use of a noise gate in
this application makes the audio sound worse rather than better? Or
how wrong you were about speakerphones? Do you think I'm just making
this stuff up? When you go to college for an engineering degree, they
don't make you take psychology and other seemingly irrelevant courses
for nothing -- they are indeed relevant, especially when your minor is
in communications. Human perception plays a paramount role in the
design of any audio (or video) technology. You might even say it's
absolutely critical. There's even a facet of engineering called "human
engineering" which deals almost exclusively with interactions between
humans and technology....

But I forget, you are so naturally gifted that you don't need to learn
of such things. Whenever someone shoves the facts in your face you can
reply with a snide comment and your credibility is magically restored.
Good for you, Brian!

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Sat, 07 Jul 2007 12:55:58 -0700, Telstar Electronics
wrote:

+++That's not true. The audio waveform is a sine wave.

Only if it is a discrete frequency. Otherwise speech is a sinusoidal
waveform comprised of many discrete frequencies.

james

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:13:56 +0100, " Peter"
wrote:

+++"cmdr buzz corey" wrote...
+++
+++ You can't change the average level without changing the waveform.
+++
+++Bovine excrement.
+++
+++An amplifier will increase the average level, but by increasing all
+++levels. As many references make clear (some listed below), an
+++amplifier does NOT change the waveform.
+++
**************

Let me be sure that I understand what you are saying.

An amplifier increases or decreases levels, ie voltage and/or current.
Yet the resulting output waveform is identical to the input?

If that is your position then that is utter bovine, canine, feline and
any other *ine excrement you wish to use.

The only way the output waveform is equal to the input waveform is
when the stage is at unity gain and is distortion free, period.
Otherwise the output waveform is different than the input. Either or
both of the voltage and current is greater or less than the input. A
waveform of any continuous time varying signal is defined as a set of
intantaineous points versus time that represent that signal. Simply
putting it.

+++The perfect amplifier or audio processor, would create zero
+++distortion - no change to the waveform. However, the perfect
+++circuit does not exist so some distortion will occur in any active
+++circuit.
+++This includes circuits already in the radio.
+++
*****************

Correct in that a distortion free function is nonexistant in
electronics.

+++A processor may be any circuit that carries out the process the
+++designer (or marketing person) has decided on. This could be as
+++simple as an amplifier... it is carrying out a process.
+++
********

a process called a transfer function.


+++A processor which simply amplifies all signals and clips the higher
+++levels can produce much distortion. A well designed and adjusted
+++processor could produce little more distortion than a simple
+++amplifier.
+++
***************

only if there is sufficient filtering to remove most of the
distortion. Generally distortion results in harmonics and other
highfrequency components of the signal. A properly designed filter of
signifcant response can filter most of the objectinable harmonics
and/or high frequency components.


+++
+++The question is whether "Telstar" and "well designed" go together. I
+++would like to see an independent review from someone without
+++an axe to grind.
************

Now that will depend on examination of the product.

james

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 8, 12:52 pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
How about some feedback from a customer (not a shill) after they have
installed it and used it for a couple months in the real world? Or,
even better, how about from some of the people on the other end (i.e,
the RECEIVING end -- why do I have to spell it out for you?)?

Frank... you know full well those people on ebay are not shills. When
a customer on ebay pays $40 for piece of equipment... you also know
damn well they are going to put it through its paces before they
report back on ebay feedback. You're really reaching on this Frank?
Everybody knows by now you would never be satisfied with any evidence
I could produce. So hang it up Frank. You must think everybody is
really stupid out here... persisting in this attack... with not one
shred of proof of what you say.
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 16:53:06 -0700, Telstar Electronics
wrote in
. com:

On Jul 8, 12:52 pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
How about some feedback from a customer (not a shill) after they have
installed it and used it for a couple months in the real world? Or,
even better, how about from some of the people on the other end (i.e,
the RECEIVING end -- why do I have to spell it out for you?)?

Frank... you know full well those people on ebay are not shills. When
a customer on ebay pays $40 for piece of equipment... you also know
damn well they are going to put it through its paces before they
report back on ebay feedback. You're really reaching on this Frank?


I can think of at least a dozen reasons why people would leave
positive feedback regardless of whether the item is tested or not.
Some of those reasons involve scams. Happens all the time.


Everybody knows by now you would never be satisfied with any evidence
I could produce.


Everyone who knows me, after all the time I've posted in this group,
knows that if I'm wrong I'll eat my words. I told you that just a
couple days ago, and others even stood up and vouched for me on that
very issue.


So hang it up Frank.


I don't think so, Brian. Let's put it this way: Suppose I test your
box and post the results. If they are good then you have a fantastic
testimonial from someone who has ridiculed your lack of electronics
knowledge and experience for ten years. If they are not so good, as I
suspect, then you are no worse off than if I sit here and criticize
your incompetence based on your own ignorant claims. So you really
have nothing to lose except a sale. And EVEN IF the results don't turn
out the way you claim, you may just gain an advocate who can at least
explain the proper operation of the box. Or, at the very least, offer
some constructive criticism that you could implement in the next
incarnation of this device (which I have done many times before, and
you have secretly taken and applied to your amps even though you
publically ridiculed my advice -- where's that schematic, Brian?).

There can be only one logical reason why you don't want me to test
your processor -- because it sucks.


You must think everybody is
really stupid out here... persisting in this attack... with not one
shred of proof of what you say.


Until I see credible evidence of your claims, instead of your usual
half-baked technical hocus-pocus and self-aggrandizing spam, I'm not
going to stop. If you don't like it, spam some other newsgroup. Or
don't, I couldn't care less. Actually, your ignorance has done some
positive things in this group. Not intentionally of course, but by
initiating discussions about how people can get suckered by false
technical claims and specifications. So do what you want. But just
remember that if your "business" suffers it's nobody's fault but your
own: YOU choose to spam this group; YOU choose to build and sell your
junk; YOU choose to hack other people's ideas and designs -- don't
even -=TRY=- to put any blame on me or anyone else in here.

Now go upstairs and find mommy, have a good cry on her shoulder, and
move on with your pathetic life in whatever direction YOU choose to
take it.

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"Telstar Electronics" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 7, 6:13 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
How about a testimonial from some of the people on the other end?

How about some feedback from ebay customers who bought some of the pre-
production units...
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller

Frank, don't entertain this putz on the feedback idea. It was proven before
that he was bidding on his own products.

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 21:55:42 -0500, "Yo Mamma"
wrote in :


"Telstar Electronics" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jul 7, 6:13 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote:
How about a testimonial from some of the people on the other end?

How about some feedback from ebay customers who bought some of the pre-
production units...
http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAP...edbackAsSeller

Frank, don't entertain this putz on the feedback idea. It was proven before
that he was bidding on his own products.


I'm sure some of his feedback is legitimate, but not much that deals
with his "business". It's a classic 'backscratching' scheme -- you
scratch my back and I'll scratch your's. It's a con that's been around
for a very long time, and sometimes perpetrated by very large and very
organized groups of people. Ebay is the perfect hunting ground for
these kinds of crooks. And the venue makes it easy for everyday people
to try their hand at being a con artist.

But then again, there sure are a lot of suckers out there.... how much
would -you- pay for a very stale fried cheese sandwich?

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 9, 12:25 am, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
I'm sure some of his feedback is legitimate, but not much that deals
with his "business". It's a classic 'backscratching' scheme -- you
scratch my back and I'll scratch your's. It's a con that's been around
for a very long time, and sometimes perpetrated by very large and very
organized groups of people. Ebay is the perfect hunting ground for
these kinds of crooks. And the venue makes it easy for everyday people
to try their hand at being a con artist.
But then again, there sure are a lot of suckers out there.... how much
would -you- pay for a very stale fried cheese sandwich?


Hey... don't you know Frank's got an answer to everything.
Not a plausible answer... just an answer... lol
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:53:40 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
om:

On Jul 9, 12:25 am, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
I'm sure some of his feedback is legitimate, but not much that deals
with his "business". It's a classic 'backscratching' scheme -- you
scratch my back and I'll scratch your's. It's a con that's been around
for a very long time, and sometimes perpetrated by very large and very
organized groups of people. Ebay is the perfect hunting ground for
these kinds of crooks. And the venue makes it easy for everyday people
to try their hand at being a con artist.
But then again, there sure are a lot of suckers out there.... how much
would -you- pay for a very stale fried cheese sandwich?


Hey... don't you know Frank's got an answer to everything.
Not a plausible answer... just an answer... lol


The answers are a result of a good education, extensive experience in
the field, with a generous serving of simple logic and common sense.
You are clearly lacking in all three, so it's understandable why my
answers don't seem plausible to you. The sad part is that you are
unwilling to change your situation. That's -your- fault, Brian.

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 9, 10:08 am, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
The answers are a result of a good education, extensive experience in
the field, with a generous serving of simple logic and common sense.
You are clearly lacking in all three, so it's understandable why my
answers don't seem plausible to you. The sad part is that you are
unwilling to change your situation. That's -your- fault, Brian.

Blah Blah Blah Blah...
Frank, this conversation with you is over.
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 08:56:12 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in
.com:

On Jul 9, 10:08 am, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
The answers are a result of a good education, extensive experience in
the field, with a generous serving of simple logic and common sense.
You are clearly lacking in all three, so it's understandable why my
answers don't seem plausible to you. The sad part is that you are
unwilling to change your situation. That's -your- fault, Brian.

Blah Blah Blah Blah...
Frank, this conversation with you is over.


Yeah, if I had a nickel.....

Eventually I will get one of your processors. I haven't even asked any
of my out-of-state friends to make the buy, yet three people from the
group have already volunteered to do it. When I get it I will test it
-thoroughly-, both on the bench and under practical conditions. And I
will post the results, both here and on a web page. Consider it a done
deal. Sticking your head in the sand won't help. It only makes you
look like you can't answer the tough questions. You can't answer them
anyway, but by refusing to address the issues you effectively concede
that I'm right, which I am. So ignore me all you want, that's fine
with me. In fact, it would be much better if you could ignore me all
the time. But we both know -that- ain't gonna happen.... "LOL!!!"

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"james" wrote...

Let me be sure that I understand what you are saying.


If you are having trouble with my English, try these...
(Full book titles, authors and ISBN numbers at bottom)


quote ref=Electronics For Engineers, page 11
Amplification This essential process involves an increase
in the amplitude or size of a signal without any change
to the waveform.
/quote


quote ref=Electronics 2, page 114
the input and output will have the same waveshape.
/quote


quote ref=Electronics Servicing Vol2, page 61
we ideally require the output signal to be a faithful but
magnified replica of the input signal.
quote


If that is your position then that is utter bovine, canine, feline and
any other *ine excrement you wish to use.

Tell it to the authors of those books, but you had best consider
their qualifications and experience first.


The only way the output waveform is equal to the input waveform is
when the stage is at unity gain

I have the choice of accepting the word of several well qualified
and experienced lecturers and engineers, or someone on a CB newsgroup.
Tough call... can I think about it?

period.

1/f

A waveform of any continuous time varying signal is defined
as a set of intantaineous points versus time that represent
that signal.

At the input of an amplifier, you have a single frequency signal...
10mV @ 1Khz
The waveform is...
sin 2pi f t

The signal at the output is amplified...
100mV @1KHz
The waveform should now be
sin 2pi f t

That is assuming a perfectly linear amplifier. We both
agree that perfection doesn't exists in this world.
Transistors are not perfectly linear but, with good design,
an amplifier can get pretty damn close.


Generally distortion results in harmonics and other
highfrequency components of the signal.

Distortion of a waveform will add components at other
frequencies.
Pure amplification is not a distortion, it does not add any
extra frequency components to the signal and does not
change the waveform.


+++The question is whether "Telstar" and "well designed" go together.
+++I would like to see an independent review from someone without
+++an axe to grind.
************

Now that will depend on examination of the product.

That was the whole idea, it was also the suggestion that Frank
made... only I find it hard to believe he would be objective. He
appears to have issues with Brian.


Regards,
Peter.


Book references (author quals. as at print dates)

Electronics 2,
D. C. Green MTech, CEng, MIEE
(Engineer for BT and Ministry of Defence, Senior
Lecturer at Willesden College of Technology).
Longman Scientific & Technical
ISBN 0-582-24519-2

Electronics For Engineers.
R. J. Maddock (Former principle lecturer,
Southampton Institute of Higher Education)
D. M. Calcutt (Senior Lecturer, School of Systems
Engineering, University of Portsmouth).
Longman Scientific & Technical. (UK)
ISBN 0-582-21583-8

Electronics servicing Vol 2
K. J. Bohlman. I.Eng, F.S.E.R.T, A.M.Inst.E.
(Senior Lecturer, North Lincolnshire College)
Dickson Price Publishers Ltd. (UK)
ISBN 0 85380 191-6
(C&G 224 core studies reference)

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 05:28:56 +0100, " Peter"
wrote in :

snip
+++The question is whether "Telstar" and "well designed" go together.
+++I would like to see an independent review from someone without
+++an axe to grind.
************

Now that will depend on examination of the product.

That was the whole idea, it was also the suggestion that Frank
made... only I find it hard to believe he would be objective. He
appears to have issues with Brian.


Empirical data has no bias. Just install the device according to his
instructions, take some measurements that can easily be duplicated by
anyone who chooses to do the same tests, then present the results in
comparison to Brian's claims. That's about as objective as it gets.
Bias is strictly limited to the conclusion, and everybody can draw
their own (they usually do anyway).

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

That was the whole idea, it was also the suggestion that Frank
made... only I find it hard to believe he would be objective. He
appears to have issues with Brian.

Now what ever gave you that idea?... lol
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 05:28:56 +0100, " Peter"
wrote:

+++"james" wrote...
+++
+++ Let me be sure that I understand what you are saying.
+++
+++
+++If you are having trouble with my English, try these...
+++ (Full book titles, authors and ISBN numbers at bottom)
+++
+++
+++quote ref=Electronics For Engineers, page 11
+++ Amplification This essential process involves an increase
+++ in the amplitude or size of a signal without any change
+++ to the waveform.
+++/quote
+++
+++
+++quote ref=Electronics 2, page 114
+++ the input and output will have the same waveshape.
+++/quote
+++
+++
+++quote ref=Electronics Servicing Vol2, page 61
+++ we ideally require the output signal to be a faithful but
+++ magnified replica of the input signal.
+++quote
+++
+++
+++ If that is your position then that is utter bovine, canine, feline and
+++ any other *ine excrement you wish to use.
+++
+++Tell it to the authors of those books, but you had best consider
+++their qualifications and experience first.
+++
+++
+++ The only way the output waveform is equal to the input waveform is
+++ when the stage is at unity gain
+++
+++I have the choice of accepting the word of several well qualified
+++and experienced lecturers and engineers, or someone on a CB newsgroup.
+++Tough call... can I think about it?
+++
+++ period.
+++
+++ 1/f
+++
+++ A waveform of any continuous time varying signal is defined
+++ as a set of intantaineous points versus time that represent
+++ that signal.
+++
+++At the input of an amplifier, you have a single frequency signal...
+++ 10mV @ 1Khz
+++The waveform is...
+++ sin 2pi f t
+++
+++The signal at the output is amplified...
+++ 100mV @1KHz
+++The waveform should now be
+++ sin 2pi f t
+++
+++That is assuming a perfectly linear amplifier. We both
+++agree that perfection doesn't exists in this world.
+++Transistors are not perfectly linear but, with good design,
+++an amplifier can get pretty damn close.
+++
*********************

Partially correct in your formulae.

Consider this and reflect with your noted lecturers and writers.

let the input signal of an amplifier be:
f(t) = Ai * sin(2*PI*f*t)

Where Ai is the input signal amplitude.

Now let the scalar value of the transfer function of the amplifier be
a real number greater than one and represented by the constant K. This
becomes essentially a distorionless amplifier and does not consider
internal noise generated in the amplifier.

The output signal from the amplifier:
g(t) = Ai * K *sin(2*PI*f*t)

Now if you can prove that g(t) is equal to f(t) when K greater than
one I will be glad to nominate you for a Noble prize for mathematics.

The frequency component of the function, sin(2*PI*f*t),remains the
same in both equation. The amplitude does not. Therefore the two
functions are not equal. They will have similar waveshapes in that
they will be mathematical multiples of each other. To state that they
are the same is ludicrous. Now I can believe the mathematics that I
have been taught or accept your hypothesis.

Hmmm. Let me get back to you on that.



james

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"Telstar Electronics" wrote...
Hey... don't you know Frank's got an answer to everything.
Not a plausible answer... just an answer... lol

But fake feedback does happen, even from genuine people. Even
Wilipedia has pages which may have been written by the
company - self promotion. There are also pages written by
people who are self proclaimed experts.
Some pages relate to secrets - if they have guessed wrong,
who will put them right? Those who know the truth could
be in trouble if they post the real facts.

Even consumer organisations seem to give top ratings to
companies or products known to have a bad reputation with
customers. One in this country, apparently labeled as the
"best", has forced a government department to make their
guidelines legally binding to protect the public from this
company's tricks.

The problem is, however, that this can leave you unable to
believe any "reports" on a product. So, what do you do - never
buy anything just in case it's not as good as the claims?
You could starve to death while wondering if branded beans
really are worth the extra pennies.


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"Frank Gilliland" wrote...

How about some feedback from a customer (not a shill) after they have
installed it and used it for a couple months in the real world? Or,
even better, how about from some of the people on the other end (i.e,
the RECEIVING end -- why do I have to spell it out for you?)?

And what happened to the rest of my post? You know, the part about how
the human brain functions in a way that the use of a noise gate in
this application makes the audio sound worse rather than better?

Humans, with brains... are you forgetting this is a CB newsgroup.
We keep our shoes on and leave our brains at the door.

A short while back, I changed telephone provider. The new provider
had different systems.
It is difficult enough talking to "customer service" staff, who
clearly didn't learn English in an English speaking country, but the
noise reduction was cutting off bits that really were important
components of speech.

Even without that, the silience between words or phrases is not
natural. It leaves you unsure whether they are just not talking,
or the line has died again.
Every now and then, the sound of them tapping (hard) on computer
keys would give it away.


Human perception plays a paramount role in the
design of any audio (or video) technology.

It should, but I believe that too much is done on a bench, behind
a desk or on paper. Even large organisations can forget that real
life may be different.

You might even say it's absolutely critical. There's even a
facet of engineering called "human engineering" which deals
almost exclusively with interactions between humans
and technology....

Tell that to Web site designers.
Have you ever been to a Web site and given up before the first
page even loaded? I know I have, many times.
No consideration for the people who it is for, the visitors,
whether it will be usable by them or even if site provides what
they really want.

I wonder if Brian has considered whether another speech processor
is really what the CB community really needs right now. Tell me, is
America screeming out for processors aimed at the CB market?


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"Frank Gilliland" wrote...

I can think of at least a dozen reasons why people would leave
positive feedback regardless of whether the item is tested or not.
Some of those reasons involve scams. Happens all the time.

Not just scams, human nature.

There are people out there who have tested "miracle" magnetic
products and other fake items. They will swear that they
worked, as claimed or better.

Have you ever seen the effect where David Blaine levitates in
the street? What about the reports, from eye witnesses
that he levitated several feet off the ground?
It was not as they claim, but they were NOT shills or
stooges. They genuinely believe that is what they saw,
and will most likely remember it that way until the day
they die.

People can see what they want to see and remember
what they want to believe happened.

The only real way is to find out for yourself, put your hand
in your pocket. By then, if it's fake, it's too late now - you
have been had.
But, unless you have done that, or have the proof, you
really cannot state that a particular item is fake.

The other option is that, as a gesture of goodwill and to
show how honest he really is, he sends each of us a free
sample to test.
Oh yes and, either way, we get to keep it.

lol.


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"Yo Mamma" wrote...

So basically, what you end up with is unintelligible hash?

Just like my mumma used to make.
Sorry, that was inedible hash.


:~)
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"Frank Gilliland" wrote...
On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 02:53:40 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote:

Hey... don't you know Frank's got an answer to everything.
Not a plausible answer... just an answer... lol

The answers are a result of

Many years in which to become cynical.


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:05:24 +0100, " Peter"
wrote in :

"Frank Gilliland" wrote...

How about some feedback from a customer (not a shill) after they have
installed it and used it for a couple months in the real world? Or,
even better, how about from some of the people on the other end (i.e,
the RECEIVING end -- why do I have to spell it out for you?)?

And what happened to the rest of my post? You know, the part about how
the human brain functions in a way that the use of a noise gate in
this application makes the audio sound worse rather than better?

Humans, with brains... are you forgetting this is a CB newsgroup.
We keep our shoes on and leave our brains at the door.


......oops, my bad.


A short while back, I changed telephone provider. The new provider
had different systems.
It is difficult enough talking to "customer service" staff, who
clearly didn't learn English in an English speaking country, but the
noise reduction was cutting off bits that really were important
components of speech.

Even without that, the silience between words or phrases is not
natural. It leaves you unsure whether they are just not talking,
or the line has died again.
Every now and then, the sound of them tapping (hard) on computer
keys would give it away.


That's what I was talking about when I mentioned Comcast digital
voice. A friend of mine got it and it's really annoying. Sounds like
she keeps hanging up or the line goes dead. But she's stuck with it
for several more months because of the contract.... I think it's a
rip-off. Going from full-duplex to psuedo/half-duplex is an upgrade?
Not in my book.


Human perception plays a paramount role in the
design of any audio (or video) technology.

It should, but I believe that too much is done on a bench, behind
a desk or on paper. Even large organisations can forget that real
life may be different.


That's exactly the kind of rift that the field of "human engineering"
works to avoid.


You might even say it's absolutely critical. There's even a
facet of engineering called "human engineering" which deals
almost exclusively with interactions between humans
and technology....

Tell that to Web site designers.
Have you ever been to a Web site and given up before the first
page even loaded? I know I have, many times.


I have dial-up. Nuff said.


No consideration for the people who it is for, the visitors,
whether it will be usable by them or even if site provides what
they really want.


I think it's a vast, right-wing conspiracy to get you to buy the
fastest computer with the latest version of windoze. But then I'm
paranoid.... (and no, I'd -never- vote for Hillary!!!)


I wonder if Brian has considered whether another speech processor
is really what the CB community really needs right now. Tell me, is
America screeming out for processors aimed at the CB market?


It's really pretty redundant, since almost every radio built since the
1960's has had some form of AGC in the mic line. If he were to use the
noise gate to trigger a keyer relay, use the processor to increase the
peak-to-average level to 40 or 50%, then put it in a box and not lie
about the specs, he could easily sell them for SSB rigs of all types,
ham included. But alas, as you stated befo

....this is a CB newsgroup.
We keep our shoes on and leave our brains at the door.

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Jul 10, 5:47 pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
It's really pretty redundant, since almost every radio built since the
1960's has had some form of AGC in the mic line. If he were to use the
noise gate to trigger a keyer relay, use the processor to increase the
peak-to-average level to 40 or 50%, then put it in a box and not lie
about the specs, he could easily sell them for SSB rigs of all types,
ham included. But alas, as you stated befo

Frank... I think you're a little confused... cause you appear to be
using limiter and AGC interchangably. Most radios you speak of use a
limiting circuit... not an AGC. There is a huge difference. A typical
limiter circuit in these radios doesn't have nearly the compression of
AGC/limiter combination. That is because the limiter circuit in these
radios has no absolutely no gain... and can only attenuate the audio
signal on large peaks. That equates to very low compression. The
VoiceMax AGC has about 60dB of gain possible. This accounts for the
very high 15:1 compression ratio. Welcome to the real world.
www.telstar-electronics.com

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:54:19 -0700, Telstar Electronics
wrote in
. com:

On Jul 10, 5:47 pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote:
It's really pretty redundant, since almost every radio built since the
1960's has had some form of AGC in the mic line. If he were to use the
noise gate to trigger a keyer relay, use the processor to increase the
peak-to-average level to 40 or 50%, then put it in a box and not lie
about the specs, he could easily sell them for SSB rigs of all types,
ham included. But alas, as you stated befo

Frank... I think you're a little confused... cause you appear to be
using limiter and AGC interchangably. Most radios you speak of use a
limiting circuit... not an AGC. There is a huge difference. A typical
limiter circuit in these radios doesn't have nearly the compression of
AGC/limiter combination. That is because the limiter circuit in these
radios has no absolutely no gain... and can only attenuate the audio
signal on large peaks. That equates to very low compression. The
VoiceMax AGC has about 60dB of gain possible. This accounts for the
very high 15:1 compression ratio. Welcome to the real world.


In the "real world", stock radios do indeed have AGC. I've mentioned
that many times before, it's been stated in this group many times
since I've been here, and the alignment of mic AGC was even a topic of
"discussion" with Dave the Hypocrite. I would think by now you would
have read a few service manuals but obviously not. Yes, they do have
limiters. Sometimes the limiting is done by the AGC (sharp elbow), and
sometimes it is a seperate circuit. But they all have mic AGC, usually
serving double duty as receive audio AGC. I'm not going to scan my
library to prove it to you -- manuals are available on ebay for pocket
change. A lot of people in the group already have a few and know I'm
right. Get some of your own and read them. THEN you can tell me about
the "real world".

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

"Telstar Electronics" wrote...
On Jul 1, 1:13 pm, "Rob" wrote:
What have you actually designed and made rather than bought as
kits from manufacturers to re-sell to the public?

Rob,
You mean there's a kit available that is the same circuit?
Wow... you could have saved me a lot of design time.

Brian,

I have just been to your site and, according to that...
In over 5 years of business, only three products appear
to have been created... two of which have been discontinued
(already).
Between discontinuing previous products, and offering this
latest, there appears to have been no products for sale - no
income, no business.

A business with just one $60 product (when it becomes
available), two discontinued items, and large gaps in trading.
You may not be using kits, but just what do you think your
Web site and it's figures say about you and your business?

Right or wrong, he is saying what people see when they
view your site... and what will they think if they ever
see these newsgroup threads.


Regards,
Peter.
http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/

Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
 

Brian,

I have just been to your site and, according to that...
In over 5 years of business, only three products appear
to have been created... two of which have been discontinued
(already).
Between discontinuing previous products, and offering this
latest, there appears to have been no products for sale - no
income, no business.

A business with just one $60 product (when it becomes
available), two discontinued items, and large gaps in trading.
You may not be using kits, but just what do you think your
Web site and it's figures say about you and your business?

Right or wrong, he is saying what people see when they
view your site... and what will they think if they ever
see these newsgroup threads.

They'll know that I have a very small company. I don't see a thing
wrong with that. If they don't like that... nothing I can do about it.
Items are often discontinued by a manufacturer when their profit
margin becomes unacceptable in the marketplace. Why should I continue
to offer a product that I can't make a reasonable profit on? Do you
run a business?