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Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:24:07 -0700, Telstar Electronics
wrote in om: Brian, I have just been to your site and, according to that... In over 5 years of business, only three products appear to have been created... two of which have been discontinued (already). Between discontinuing previous products, and offering this latest, there appears to have been no products for sale - no income, no business. A business with just one $60 product (when it becomes available), two discontinued items, and large gaps in trading. You may not be using kits, but just what do you think your Web site and it's figures say about you and your business? Right or wrong, he is saying what people see when they view your site... and what will they think if they ever see these newsgroup threads. They'll know that I have a very small company. I don't see a thing wrong with that. If they don't like that... nothing I can do about it. Items are often discontinued by a manufacturer when their profit margin becomes unacceptable in the marketplace. Why should I continue to offer a product that I can't make a reasonable profit on? Do you run a business? I do. And part of running a business is catering to the market. Trying to manipulate the market to suit the product (pet rocks, white salmon) might net you a few bucks at the beginning, but the market eventually wises up. Looking at your business history, it appears the market was smarter than you from the beginning, Brian. "LOL" |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
On Jul 11, 5:24 pm, Frank Gilliland
wrote: I do. And part of running a business is catering to the market. Trying to manipulate the market to suit the product (pet rocks, white salmon) might net you a few bucks at the beginning, but the market eventually wises up. Looking at your business history, it appears the market was smarter than you from the beginning, Brian. Frank, you sure know a lot about running a business... and you never even had one... lol The real issue as I see it is... does anyone really care about what you have to say? I sure don't. I hope others do... or you're wasting a lot of time here. |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:21:32 -0700, Telspam Electronics
wrote in .com: On Jul 11, 5:24 pm, Frank Gilliland wrote: I do. And part of running a business is catering to the market. Trying to manipulate the market to suit the product (pet rocks, white salmon) might net you a few bucks at the beginning, but the market eventually wises up. Looking at your business history, it appears the market was smarter than you from the beginning, Brian. Frank, you sure know a lot about running a business... and you never even had one... lol Do you have a reading deficiency along with your MPD? The real issue as I see it is... does anyone really care about what you have to say? Of course they do. All these posts are archived on google and elsewhere. Go ahead and google "Telspam Electronics" and tell me what you see. Do you really think people won't check your credentials when buying something that is relatively unknown, with no reputation or testimonials, and can't be found in any reference material beyond your website and your spam? They look at the posts and see that, even when you don't avoid the tough questions altogether, all you can quote is either techno-babble or "it's a gray world". Yep, people really do care about what I have to say. I sure don't. I hope others do... or you're wasting a lot of time here. That's my choice. Whether or not to buy one of your hack-jobs is the choice that people who google your name and product must make. |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
"james" wrote...
Partially correct in your formulae. It is printed as I gave it on pages 147 & 148 in... Electrical principles and measurements Level 2 By I. McKenzie Smith (B.Sc., Dip.A.Ed., C. Eng., M.I.E.E., M.I.E.R.E., F.I.T.E) Head of the Department of Electrical Engineering, Stow Colledge, Glasgow. The words of the noted lecturers, one of whom also worked for the Ministry of Defence, are incredibly clear... the waveform does not change. So I think that what we have here is a perception issue. Try this... You say that the waveform changes so tell me: If you amplify a sinusoidal waveform, what waveform does it become? At what level does a sinusoidal waveform become some other waveform? Or, at what level is it a sinusoidal waveform? Can you see where I am going with this? To say that a large sinewave is not still a sinewave is like saying a large circle is no longer a circle. With pure amplification, the signal may have altered in amplitude, but a sinusoidal waveform will still be a sinusoidal waveform on the output. The sine, angular frequency and phase shift are all unchanged. I am not saying that the signal is unaltered, but that the waveform is still whatever waveform was put in. Now I don't like to disagree with you but, if you really believe that an amplified sinewave is not a sinewave, then I really must stick with the named lecturers and Heads of Departments. Nothing personal, you understand, but they do have a sh1tload of letters after their names :~) BTW: Sometimes I may take a while to reply to messages, it's just that I have other things to do and just fit this and other groups in where possible. Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:23:51 +0100, " Peter"
wrote: +++With pure amplification, the signal may have altered in amplitude, +++but a sinusoidal waveform will still be a sinusoidal waveform on +++the output. The sine, angular frequency and phase shift are +++all unchanged. ************* Wrong Depending on how the amplifier is configured there is a phase shift. In a Common emmiter configured transistor amp there is a 180 degree shift in the pahse. So the waveform is altered by phase. Only the emitter(source) follower in a semiconductor amplifier will not cause a phase shift. Correct that the angular frequency is not changed and that a sine wave is a sine wave, but still the amplitude has changed. Therefore they are not identical weaveforms. Therefore they do change, if only in amplitude. james |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:39:01 GMT, james wrote
in : On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:23:51 +0100, " Peter" wrote: +++With pure amplification, the signal may have altered in amplitude, +++but a sinusoidal waveform will still be a sinusoidal waveform on +++the output. The sine, angular frequency and phase shift are +++all unchanged. ************* Wrong Depending on how the amplifier is configured there is a phase shift. In a Common emmiter configured transistor amp there is a 180 degree shift in the pahse. So the waveform is altered by phase. Only the emitter(source) follower in a semiconductor amplifier will not cause a phase shift. Correct that the angular frequency is not changed and that a sine wave is a sine wave, but still the amplitude has changed. Therefore they are not identical weaveforms. Therefore they do change, if only in amplitude. I think the key word here is 'waveform', where 'form' is the issue and scale or phase are not. Because ANY device, active or passive, will introduce some phase delay and amplitude variation to the signal. So be practical or be a purist, but you're both really just saying the same thing. Now if you wanted to take this to a philosophical level, no two signals can EVER be identical for the simple reason that they can always be differentiated, if not by amplitude or phase then by temporal location (one is the input, the other is the output) or by physical location (you measure this one here and that one there). But by the same rule of identity I guess that means no two opinions will ever be identical either, so argue away..... |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:18:59 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote: +++On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:39:01 GMT, james wrote +++in : +++ +++On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:23:51 +0100, " Peter" +++wrote: +++ ++++++With pure amplification, the signal may have altered in amplitude, ++++++but a sinusoidal waveform will still be a sinusoidal waveform on ++++++the output. The sine, angular frequency and phase shift are ++++++all unchanged. +++************* +++ +++Wrong +++ +++Depending on how the amplifier is configured there is a phase shift. +++In a Common emmiter configured transistor amp there is a 180 degree +++shift in the pahse. So the waveform is altered by phase. +++ +++Only the emitter(source) follower in a semiconductor amplifier will +++not cause a phase shift. +++ +++Correct that the angular frequency is not changed and that a sine wave +++is a sine wave, but still the amplitude has changed. Therefore they +++are not identical weaveforms. Therefore they do change, if only in +++amplitude. +++ +++ +++I think the key word here is 'waveform', where 'form' is the issue and +++scale or phase are not. Because ANY device, active or passive, will +++introduce some phase delay and amplitude variation to the signal. So +++be practical or be a purist, but you're both really just saying the +++same thing. +++ +++Now if you wanted to take this to a philosophical level, no two +++signals can EVER be identical for the simple reason that they can +++always be differentiated, if not by amplitude or phase then by +++temporal location (one is the input, the other is the output) or by +++physical location (you measure this one here and that one there). But +++by the same rule of identity I guess that means no two opinions will +++ever be identical either, so argue away..... +++ ********* In a way this could be considered nit picking. I agree that the overall form is a sinusoid. I just don't like the implication that all sinusiods are unchanged by amplification, positve or negative. Granted the amplitude of the form is alterd and little on none of the rest of the function is not. Yet the amplitude is a partt of a sinusoidal waveform. again it is a minor point. james |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:06:09 GMT, james wrote
in : snip In a way this could be considered nit picking. I agree that the overall form is a sinusoid. I just don't like the implication that all sinusiods are unchanged by amplification, positve or negative. Granted the amplitude of the form is alterd and little on none of the rest of the function is not. Yet the amplitude is a partt of a sinusoidal waveform. again it is a minor point. True, and your point is perfectly valid. You are technically correct that amplification, inversion and phase shift are types of distortion. But for the purpose of -this- discussion (audio distortion caused by Brian's noise-board), it seems you are trying to sand the table-top before cutting down the tree. Now if this were carried over to a new thread it might be fun.... |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
"james" wrote...
First of all, I should point out that I have not seen any messages posted since my last reply, they will be downloaded as this is sent... When your mathematics appear to disagree with so many well qualified engineers, lecturers, heads of educational departments and technical authors, it's time to check for some little error... something that can slip through or seem insignificant. The frequency component of the function, sin(2*PI*f*t),remains the same in both equation. It will always appear constant, it is not an absolute value... f*t Through a complete cycle, the maximum result will be 1, regardless of the actual frequency. The amplitude does not. Of course not, *you* are using an absolute value. The waveform is the relationship between changes in amplitude and time. By putting in an absolute value, peak voltage, you are now comparing signal levels rather than waveform. The amplitude should have a maximum value of 1... quote ref=1 The maximum voltage of a sine is 1, thus Vm is the maximum or peak value of the alternating voltage. /quote Diagrams in the book show exactly that. But, as you may not have the book collection that I have, check out the diagram here... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ine_Cosine_Gra ph.png/300px-Sine_Cosine_Graph.png (NOTE: URL wrapped to two lines) Now, v = Vm sin 2pi*f*t = sin 2pi*f*t So, as said before... quote ref=2 Amplification This essential process involves an increase in the amplitude or size of a signal without any change to the waveform. /quote Now I can believe the mathematics that I have been taught or accept your hypothesis. Those are the words of well respected and qualified engineers, lecturers, heads of educational departments and technical authors. Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ ref1: Electrical and electronic principles Level 2 I. McKenzie Smith. (pages 144 - 148) ref2: Electronics For Engineers. R. J. Maddock (Former principle lecturer, Southampton Institute of Higher Education) D. M. Calcutt (Senior Lecturer, School of Systems Engineering, University of Portsmouth). (page 11) |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
Peter
Have a nice day. I think there is little more that can be accomplished continuing this banter. You can believe what you wish. james On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:23:12 +0100, " Peter" wrote: +++"james" wrote... +++ +++ +++First of all, I should point out that I have not seen any messages +++posted since my last reply, they will be downloaded as this is sent... +++ +++ +++When your mathematics appear to disagree with so many well +++qualified engineers, lecturers, heads of educational departments +++and technical authors, it's time to check for some little +++error... something that can slip through or seem insignificant. +++ +++ +++ The frequency component of the function, sin(2*PI*f*t),remains the +++ same in both equation. +++ +++It will always appear constant, it is not an absolute value... +++ f*t +++Through a complete cycle, the maximum result will be 1, regardless +++of the actual frequency. +++ +++ +++ The amplitude does not. +++ +++ +++Of course not, *you* are using an absolute value. +++ +++The waveform is the relationship between changes in amplitude +++and time. By putting in an absolute value, peak voltage, you +++are now comparing signal levels rather than waveform. +++ +++The amplitude should have a maximum value of 1... +++ +++quote ref=1 +++ The maximum voltage of a sine is 1, thus Vm is the +++ maximum or peak value of the alternating voltage. +++/quote +++ +++Diagrams in the book show exactly that. But, as you may +++not have the book collection that I have, check out the +++diagram here... +++http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ine_Cosine_Gra +++ph.png/300px-Sine_Cosine_Graph.png +++ +++ (NOTE: URL wrapped to two lines) +++ +++Now, +++ v = Vm sin 2pi*f*t +++ = sin 2pi*f*t +++ +++So, as said before... +++ +++quote ref=2 +++ Amplification This essential process involves an increase +++ in the amplitude or size of a signal without any change +++ to the waveform. +++/quote +++ +++ +++ Now I can believe the mathematics that I +++ have been taught or accept your hypothesis. +++ +++ +++Those are the words of well respected and qualified engineers, +++lecturers, heads of educational departments and technical +++authors. +++ +++ +++ +++Regards, +++Peter. +++ http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ +++ +++ ref1: Electrical and electronic principles Level 2 +++ I. McKenzie Smith. +++ (pages 144 - 148) +++ +++ ref2: Electronics For Engineers. +++ R. J. Maddock (Former principle lecturer, +++ Southampton Institute of Higher Education) +++ D. M. Calcutt (Senior Lecturer, School of Systems +++ Engineering, University of Portsmouth). +++ (page 11) +++ +++ |
Learn How VoiceMax Increases Your Transmission Range...
Have a nice day. I think there is little more that can be accomplished continuing this banter. You can believe what you wish. lol |
Waveform...
"Frank Gilliland" wrote...
I think the key word here is 'waveform', where 'form' is the issue and scale or phase are not. Because ANY device, active or passive, will introduce some phase delay and amplitude variation to the signal. So be practical or be a purist, but you're both really just saying the same thing. What's up with you, playing peace-maker? The difference of opinion here appears to be whether waveform is defined by the absolute value at the peak, rather than relative changes throughout a cycle. In the noted references, signal amplitude does not affect the waveform of the signal. Considering the qualifications of these chaps, and the fact that they each have said the same, I am somewhat reluctant to consider their words, math and diagrams to be incorrect. Now if you wanted to take this to a philosophical level, no two signals can EVER be identical for the simple reason that they can always be differentiated, Ah, signals... fine. The term "signal" can cover everything, the slightest change of anything (including amplitude) could be taken as a change in the signal. I would not argue that a larger version of a sinewave may not be considered an identical *signal* to the smaller version, but I would argue that the waveform property of the signal has not changed. if not by amplitude or phase then by temporal location (one is the input, the other is the output) or by physical location (you measure this one here and that one there). But by the same rule of identity I guess that means no two opinions will ever be identical either, so argue away..... You act as peace-maker, then encourage us to argue? Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
Waveform...
"james" wrote...
I just don't like the implication that all sinusiods are unchanged by amplification, I neither stated or implied that they are "all sinusiods are unchanged". You have clearly assumed that from a simple statement. Let's be clear about what I stated, which is what several well qualified people have also stated in their books... that the waveform is unchanged by amplification. That is the position of the named engineers, lecturers and heads, and I am not about to call them stupid by saying it is not as they state in their books. Before arguing further, that these people are all wrong and their employers really should have given you the job, please look at my other replies. Maybe it will clear up why you believe these people wrong. again it is a minor point. For a minor point, you certainly are willing to spend time claiming the authors to be "wrong" or "incorrect". Not something I would do on a "minor point", and without some damn good references or better qualifications than all those authors. Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
Waveform...
"james" wrote in message
... On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:23:51 +0100, " Peter" wrote: +++With pure amplification, the signal may have altered in amplitude, +++but a sinusoidal waveform will still be a sinusoidal waveform on +++the output. The sine, angular frequency and phase shift are +++all unchanged. ************* Wrong No, you are confusing issues with stuff like... Depending on how the amplifier is configured there is a phase shift. Now, read my part again, carefully. I did not mention amplification with phase shift or specific amplifier circuits. You are several steps ahead of yourself, considering specific circuits before considering the required function... Amplification. If I asked what was the purpose of a light bulb, would you start talking about heat and fingers getting burned changing them when they have been on a few minutes? With that in mind, what is the purpose of an amplifier and what is amplifictation? I'll give you a clue... heat, distortion, phase shift, specific components and negative feedback do not come in at this stage. To design something, first you must consider the purpose. Otherwise, you can end up with a big, empty, useless dome and the whole world laughing at you. Believe me, us Brits know all about that one. In a Common emmiter configured transistor amp there is a 180 degree shift in the pahse. Only the emitter(source) follower in a semiconductor amplifier will not cause a phase shift. As you should have worked out from the above, phase shift is not amplification, and it is not the basic function of an amplifier. Correct that the angular frequency is not changed and that a sine wave is a sine wave, but still the amplitude has changed. Nobody said it hasn't. The difference of opinion here appears to be whether waveform is defined by the value of the amplitude at the peak. Acccording to the noted and extremely well qualified gentlemen, the form is not dependent upon the peak value. You appear to be confusing the words signal and waveform. Although a change to any of the properties of a signal will be a change in that signal, you can change any one of it's properties without changing the others. So, changing the signal amplitude does not change it's waveform. The signal amplitude is absolute and measured in volts or amps. When assessing the waveform of the signal, waveform amplitude is relative to the signal amplitude and so has a maximum value of 1. No matter how accurate your mathematics, if you do not correctly identify the problem at hand then you may be working on the wrong problem and your result will be not be the required solution. Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
small company...
"Telstar Electronics" wrote...
They'll know that I have a very small company. I don't see a thing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with a small company, but you have to use your advantages... you can be damn sure your large competitors will use theirs. They can bulk buy to reduce costs, they can throw big money at big advertising. They can even take a loss just to wipe out the competition. They can hold out longer than the small guy then, once he has gone, they can bang the prices up even further. If they don't like that... nothing I can do about it. If you don't believe that you can win people over, then you had best give up now. You can do nothing about the big business advantages and image, but you can use your small business advantages. If you are unwilling to do that, then why should the customer not simply take the cheaper product from the well known big guy? What are you offering that he doesn't? Dont say "quality"... how long has it been since CBers gave a flying sh1t about quality rather than price? Items are often discontinued by a manufacturer when their profit margin becomes unacceptable in the marketplace. All products are subject to the life cycle concept. Initially, they would have been selling it at a huge profit. Then, as the market slowed, they would have dropped to a reasonable profit. By the time it is discontinued, it should have made plenty of money for them. Why should I continue to offer a product that I can't make a reasonable profit on? You shouldn't, but did you properly consider profit margin from the beginning? It must be remembered that time is money and, if you designed the product, design time is cost that has to be recovered long before discontinuing the product. Do you run a business? Not at the moment, but I have and I am considering going down that route again. But not on the basis of a single product, unless it was an incredible product that would have a wide appeal to a mass market. CB products simply don't come anywhere near. Not that I wouldn't want to offer them, just that I wouldn't pin the survival of the business on them. Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
lol...
"Telstar Electronics" wrote...
Have a nice day. I think there is little more that can be accomplished continuing this banter. You can believe what you wish. lol Laugh all you like, but this guy has the brass balls needed to be a politician. I posted the written teachings of several well qualified and respected engineers, lecturers and heads of educational departments. With nothing more than pure bravado, James says, "wrong". This guy doesn't even attempt to show that he has the qualifications to call such people "wrong", or even to suggest that they are "partly correct". All he has is his balls, big brass ones. And, when I refuse to take his word over those of the qualified experts, does he crumble and submit to the accepted facts? Heck, no... he simply replies: "you can believe what you wish". I don't know about your political system but, over here, we have ministers for just about everything. These guys are shifted between departments, never appearing to have qualifications in that field. Yet, with nothing more than bravado, they can tell any real experts and the whole of the public that they are "wrong". They can set up a Web site asking for public opinion, then openly refuse to accept the millions of replies. James is wasted here, he should be in politics. Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
waveform...
"james" wrote...
Peter Have a nice day. I think there is little more that can be accomplished continuing this banter. If, after posting several references by well qualified people, a person still says the earth is flat... then there is nothing more that one can do for that person. You can believe what you wish. As you are being kind enough to allow me to make my own choice, I'll take the words of the experts with qualifications, experience and the full trust of educational establishments and the MoD. Regards, Peter. http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
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