On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 20:36:54 -0500, w_tom wrote:

Lightning builds plasma wires that can short high energy,
utility power through other copper wires. Lightning simply
creates the short circuit. Then a higher source of energy -
AC electric utility - follows to vaporize those copper wires.
That point was described by Colin Baliss:
Although lightning strikes have impressive voltage and current
values (typically hundreds to thousands of kV and 10-100 kA)
the energy content of the discharge is relatively low and most
of the damage to power plant is caused by 'power follow-through
current'. The lightning simply provides a suitable ionized
discharge path.

Yes direct strikes have caused damage. This was a problem
in the early days of ESS-1 - the first electronic switching
computers for telephone systems. And so engineers then
reevaluated the earthing system in those few 'problem' Central
Office buildings to correct the reason for electronic damage -
human failure.

What is a problem central office building?
The telephone companys lose hundreds of "channel unit" boards to
lightning damage every year. Most if not all boards lost are in the
remote sites, not the central office. The boards that are lost aren't
due to human faillure, they are due to the fact you cannot predict
lightning, and cannot totally protect against it.


Described above is not a best solution. But then a best
solution is typically not required. Above described system
will not avoid damage from every possible direct strike. But
then many of these 'rare' direct strikes have never been
experienced by many - maybe most - people. For example,
something called hot lightning may discharge the entire cloud
in one single strike. It has been observed - just like
tornados have been observed (most people also will never
witness a tornado in their lifetime).

Defined here is effective protection for most direct
lightning strikes. It costs so little. To enhance same for
the other maybe 1%, serious facilities such as 911 systems,
cell phone towers, telephone switch stations, and nuclear
hardened maritime facilities spend far more than a few $10.
They spend $thousands more on earthing alone just to also
protect from the last 1% of worst case lightning strikes.

Cell sites have a copper ring of protection around the site. I have
been in cell sites that were so totally shielded that my cell phone
wouldn't work in them. Everything entering or leaving the site is
totally protected. Quite impratical for the normal home owner.


I cite nuclear hardened facility especially since a 1998
IEEE paper described a Norwegian maritime station damaged by a
lightning strike. They discovered major installation faults
in the earthing system for what was suppose to be a nuclear
EMP protected station. Faults that even permitted lightning
to cause damage. Again, failure directly traceable to a
human. Major construction required to repair a simple
earthing flaw.

Homes contain superior earthing systems that we still don't
use today. Ufer grounds could have been installed using
existing structure - if planned for when footing were poured.
But we still don't install superior earthing systems in new
homes 30 years after the transistor existed. Costs to use that
Ufer ground on existing homes are now extreme because Ufer
grounding was not enabled when house construction started. OP
must make do with simple earth ground rods. Properly
installed, the Original Poster is quite unlikely to suffer any
damage from direct lightning strikes. For but a few $10, he
gets a massive increase in direct lightning strike
protection. Not perfect. Just a massive improvement.

You might want to read up on the damage that has occured when the
grounds for a tower were encased in the conctrete base that was the
tower mount. They are cases were the lightning "blew" the concrete
base up.

I don't know which original poster you are talking about. My tower is
properly earthed, a direct strike didn't damage my towers or antennas.
The induced voltage that got into my network cables is what caused
most of my damage. The telephone companies have much the same
problem, most of the lightning damage isn't from direct strikes, its
from their wireline pick up of induced voltage of a close strike.

I think you need to quit reading up on it so much, and spend more time
looking at whats practical and proven to work for the CB or ham radio
operator.

Here is a good place to start:

http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Towertalk

Learn why 'problem' Central Offices had surge damage - the
problem COs directly traceable to bad earthing in that
building due to human failure. But then too many experts
don't even know the early 1960s history of ESS-1. How many
switching computers did your phone company replace in your
town this year - the entire computer damaged by lightning.
None. Damage not acceptable in any town, anywhere, any year
.... because electronics damage from lightning is that
routinely avoided. Lightning damage is routinely traceable to
human failure - the technology being that old and that well
proven.

Cell phone sites do have halo ground. Why? Even the world
record lightning strike must never damage an cell phone
location. And so they install more than just a copper earth
rod. In the meantime that halo ground is not why your cell
phone does not work underneath the tower.

Properly installed Ufer ground never damage concrete. Human
fails - and then blames lightning for the concrete failure?
Human is reason for failure.

Damage from direct lightning strikes - especially strikes
that might damage concrete - are always directly traceable to
human failure. Protection from the direct strike is that
routine and that easy.

Rather than lecture on reading tower talk, instead read
about effective lightning protection in tower talk - and why
damage from lightning is directly traceable to human failure.
You are quoting the wrong source if you think tower talk says
lightning damage is unavoidable:
http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...il/004413.html
The basic scenario is to install a Single Point Ground System
that is installed at the building entry. It shunts everything
to ground before it goes in the building. If you can keep it
outside, then you don't really have to do much inside.

http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...st/032935.html
What you're proposing to do has the makings of what is referred
to as a Ufer ground. Named for its inventor, the principle of
the Ufer ground is simple. ... according to Polyphaser's
"Grounds for Lightning Protection" publication.

http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...er/026083.html
An Ufer ground ... this may be the ENTIRE ground system. Since
the concrete is conductive and there is lots of concrete area
in contact with the soil, it does a pretty reasonable job.

Effective protection from direct lightning strikes is
routine.


Lancer wrote:
...
What is a problem central office building?
The telephone companys lose hundreds of "channel unit" boards to
lightning damage every year. Most if not all boards lost are in the
remote sites, not the central office. The boards that are lost aren't
due to human faillure, they are due to the fact you cannot predict
lightning, and cannot totally protect against it.
...

Cell sites have a copper ring of protection around the site. I have
been in cell sites that were so totally shielded that my cell phone
wouldn't work in them. Everything entering or leaving the site is
totally protected. Quite impratical for the normal home owner.
...

You might want to read up on the damage that has occured when the
grounds for a tower were encased in the conctrete base that was the
tower mount. They are cases were the lightning "blew" the concrete
base up.

I don't know which original poster you are talking about. My tower is
properly earthed, a direct strike didn't damage my towers or antennas.
The induced voltage that got into my network cables is what caused
most of my damage. The telephone companies have much the same
problem, most of the lightning damage isn't from direct strikes, its
from their wireline pick up of induced voltage of a close strike.

I think you need to quit reading up on it so much, and spend more time
looking at whats practical and proven to work for the CB or ham radio
operator.

Here is a good place to start:

http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Towertalk

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:35:23 -0500, w_tom wrote:

Learn why 'problem' Central Offices had surge damage - the
problem COs directly traceable to bad earthing in that
building due to human failure. But then too many experts
don't even know the early 1960s history of ESS-1. How many
switching computers did your phone company replace in your
town this year - the entire computer damaged by lightning.
None. Damage not acceptable in any town, anywhere, any year
... because electronics damage from lightning is that
routinely avoided. Lightning damage is routinely traceable to
human failure - the technology being that old and that well
proven.

Get over yourself, Do you know what a central office is, what a remote
is? The switching computers as you call them, never directly see the
wireline. Nearly 100% of the damage that the phone companies see is
to the channel units in their remotes. They sacrifice the remote
channel units to protect the rest of the equipment. That damage
cannot be prevented, its expected and accepted.


Cell phone sites do have halo ground. Why? Even the world
record lightning strike must never damage an cell phone
location. And so they install more than just a copper earth
rod. In the meantime that halo ground is not why your cell
phone does not work underneath the tower.

Ok, why didn't my cell phone not work in the site. Hopefully you
won't use the word desense.


Properly installed Ufer ground never damage concrete. Human
fails - and then blames lightning for the concrete failure?
Human is reason for failure.

Read again, current causes heat, heat expands the moisture in the
concrete.


Damage from direct lightning strikes - especially strikes
that might damage concrete - are always directly traceable to
human failure. Protection from the direct strike is that
routine and that easy.




Rather than lecture on reading tower talk, instead read
about effective lightning protection in tower talk - and why
damage from lightning is directly traceable to human failure.
You are quoting the wrong source if you think tower talk says
lightning damage is unavoidable:

No, your trying to tell every one that if I earth everything that all
damage is avoidable. Its not that simple, proper earthing is very
important. Disconnecting antennas, and unplugging Power connections
helps complete the protection.

No one is telling you that earthing is not important, but it is not
the total solution.

I have a 500' beverage that I use for the broadcast band. It is
earthed a much as a long wire can be. When storms start approaching,
its not uncommon for me to see 1/8 arcs across the tuning capacitor.
I have news for you, that is more than enough to damage the input to
my radio. So I go outside, disconnect my feeds and ground them.


http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...il/004413.html
The basic scenario is to install a Single Point Ground System
that is installed at the building entry. It shunts everything
to ground before it goes in the building. If you can keep it
outside, then you don't really have to do much inside.

Ok, short of enclosing my wooden structure house in copper, how do I
keep induced voltage out? How would earthing have protected my cat5
runs? They are totally inside my house, never enter or exit it.


http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...st/032935.html
What you're proposing to do has the makings of what is referred
to as a Ufer ground. Named for its inventor, the principle of
the Ufer ground is simple. ... according to Polyphaser's
"Grounds for Lightning Protection" publication.

http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...er/026083.html
An Ufer ground ... this may be the ENTIRE ground system. Since
the concrete is conductive and there is lots of concrete area
in contact with the soil, it does a pretty reasonable job.

Effective protection from direct lightning strikes is
routine.


Quit trying to pound earthing totally protects you down my throat.
There is more to protection then that.

If Ufer grounds were so destructive, then why does "your"
tower talk even recommend them? You could not even cite
appropriate posts in 'tower talk'. Funny. I provided
citations from 'tower talk' that says you posted technical
inaccurate information.

First you deny that earthing is essential for protection.
Then you openly admit lightning caused "lost 2 TV sets, 1
computer, my router and wireless access point". Classic
damage when all incoming lines are not properly earthed. You
have a serious earthing problem in your own home. Instead you
cite your own improperly earthed home as proof that earthing
is not essential to lightning protection; that no protection
is possible. That TV and computer damage is classic when
incoming wires - antenna and utility - are not properly
earthed.

Yes there is more to protection that just earthing. Some
incoming utilities require more than just earthing. However
without earthing, then no protection exists. Earthing is
required at the OPs antenna mast AND on wire as it enters
building - the ground block. Earthing is THE first item - the
most essential - installed for lightning protection.
'System' installed using concepts in "The Need for
Coordinated Protection":
http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf

No earth ground means no effective lightning (or static)
protection. Earthing also required by the National Electrical
Code - for human safety reasons. The answer to zeeeeeeee3's
original questions: earthing is required at both that antenna
mast AND at the common service entrance so that all incoming
wires first connect to the single point earth ground. Driving
the mast into earth is not a sufficient earth ground.

Lancer demonstrates what happens when a poorly earthed home
suffers a lightning strike - unnecessary damage to computer
and TV. He even denies the effectiveness or need for
earthing. That's fine. What is not fine is when Lancer
outrightly lies to others about benefits of single point earth
ground.

For the OP's original question: system demonstrated here
applies:

http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf

Additional products that can utilize advantage of the
essential earthing system are offered at Erico, from
Polyphaser, and even in Home Depot. 'Whole house' protector
is also required on other incoming wires. But the bottom line
remains - lightning (and static) protection is only as
effective as its earth ground.

Earthing is not a total solution. However it is the answer
to OP's original question. No earthing means no protection
exists and a violation of NEC. Earthing is that essential.

In the meantime, even 'tower talk' demonstrates why single
point earth ground (service entrance earth ground) and why
Ufer grounds are so effective. A preferred earthing solution
where people first learn facts before posting denials - and
more information for the OP's original question.

Lancer wrote:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 12:35:23 -0500, w_tom wrote:
...
Get over yourself, Do you know what a central office is, what a remote
is? The switching computers as you call them, never directly see the
wireline. Nearly 100% of the damage that the phone companies see is
to the channel units in their remotes. They sacrifice the remote
channel units to protect the rest of the equipment. That damage
cannot be prevented, its expected and accepted.
...

Ok, why didn't my cell phone not work in the site. Hopefully you
won't use the word desense.
...

Read again, current causes heat, heat expands the moisture in the
concrete.


Damage from direct lightning strikes - especially strikes
that might damage concrete - are always directly traceable to
human failure. Protection from the direct strike is that
routine and that easy.


Rather than lecture on reading tower talk, instead read
about effective lightning protection in tower talk - and why
damage from lightning is directly traceable to human failure.
You are quoting the wrong source if you think tower talk says
lightning damage is unavoidable:
http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...il/004413.html
The basic scenario is to install a Single Point Ground System
that is installed at the building entry. It shunts everything
to ground before it goes in the building. If you can keep it
outside, then you don't really have to do much inside.

http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...st/032935.html
What you're proposing to do has the makings of what is referred
to as a Ufer ground. Named for its inventor, the principle of
the Ufer ground is simple. ... according to Polyphaser's
"Grounds for Lightning Protection" publication.

http://lists.contesting.com/_towerta...er/026083.html
An Ufer ground ... this may be the ENTIRE ground system. Since
the concrete is conductive and there is lots of concrete area
in contact with the soil, it does a pretty reasonable job.

No, your trying to tell every one that if I earth everything that all
damage is avoidable. Its not that simple, proper earthing is very
important. Disconnecting antennas, and unplugging Power connections
helps complete the protection.

No one is telling you that earthing is not important, but it is not
the total solution.
...

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:05:10 -0500, w_tom wrote:

If Ufer grounds were so destructive, then why does "your"
tower talk even recommend them? You could not even cite
appropriate posts in 'tower talk'. Funny. I provided
citations from 'tower talk' that says you posted technical
inaccurate information.

First you deny that earthing is essential for protection.
Then you openly admit lightning caused "lost 2 TV sets, 1
computer, my router and wireless access point". Classic
damage when all incoming lines are not properly earthed. You
have a serious earthing problem in your own home. Instead you
cite your own improperly earthed home as proof that earthing
is not essential to lightning protection; that no protection
is possible. That TV and computer damage is classic when
incoming wires - antenna and utility - are not properly
earthed.

I asked you how I could have prevented my Cat5 from picking up induced
voltage, but you somehow avoided that question again. My antenna and
utillities are properly earthed. How do you earth a Cat5 cable? Do
you know what one is?


Yes there is more to protection that just earthing.

Exactly what we have been telling you. But some how you want to
ignore what others have posted.

Some
incoming utilities require more than just earthing. However
without earthing, then no protection exists. Earthing is
required at the OPs antenna mast AND on wire as it enters
building - the ground block. Earthing is THE first item - the
most essential - installed for lightning protection.
'System' installed using concepts in "The Need for
Coordinated Protection":
http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf

No earth ground means no effective lightning (or static)
protection. Earthing also required by the National Electrical
Code - for human safety reasons. The answer to zeeeeeeee3's
original questions: earthing is required at both that antenna
mast AND at the common service entrance so that all incoming
wires first connect to the single point earth ground. Driving
the mast into earth is not a sufficient earth ground.

Are you repeating this for your benefit? If you want to argue with
yourself, feel free.


Lancer demonstrates what happens when a poorly earthed home
suffers a lightning strike - unnecessary damage to computer
and TV. He even denies the effectiveness or need for
earthing. That's fine. What is not fine is when Lancer
outrightly lies to others about benefits of single point earth
ground.

You put words in Franks mouth, now you are attempting do that with me.
I never denied the effectiveness of earthing, I stated and will state
it again, sometimes that isn't enough.


For the OP's original question: system demonstrated here
applies:

http://www.erico.com/public/library/...es/tncr002.pdf

Additional products that can utilize advantage of the
essential earthing system are offered at Erico, from
Polyphaser, and even in Home Depot. 'Whole house' protector
is also required on other incoming wires. But the bottom line
remains - lightning (and static) protection is only as
effective as its earth ground.

Thought you said Static is irrelevant. A few hundred volts of static
will not damage any properly built radio. You could even static
shock your car radio antenna or a portable radio antenna
without damage. That would be as much as 18,000 volts - and
still no damage.




Earthing is not a total solution. However it is the answer
to OP's original question. No earthing means no protection
exists and a violation of NEC. Earthing is that essential.

No one has said any different. Glad that you admit earthing is not
the total solution, something I have maintained all along.


In the meantime, even 'tower talk' demonstrates why single
point earth ground (service entrance earth ground) and why
Ufer grounds are so effective. A preferred earthing solution
where people first learn facts before posting denials - and
more information for the OP's original question.


Great, why don't you do that, and get over the idea that earthing is
not the total and complete solution.