Frank Gilliland wrote:
In ,
wrote:

..... We pushed poles in the ground with the bobcat and
post hole digger, mostly for lightning. Out here where I live, by
the time the fire dept gets here with the tanker (no hydrants)you're
toast.

Here's a little trick if you use a pipe for a ground rod: Thread both
ends of the pipe. On the top put a fitting that will accept a garden
hose. On the bottom put a reduction fitting (to be used as a nozzle).
Hold the pipe vertical, turn on the water full blast, then let the water
drill the hole. When you are done just unscrew the top fitting, and
PRESTO!!! A great ground rod without a lot of fuss.

BTW, this doesn't work very well in areas where there are a lot of large
rocks in the ground.....

That's a slick idea, we're sandy loam and clay around here. Next
time I sink a ground rod I'll remember the water.

--
Go 40 42 12

If in sandy loom, then a single ground rod may not be
sufficient. Neighborhood history will apply. Previous
lightning damage in the last ten years? If so, then the
single point ground may be expanded with more rods; spaced as
Frank suggests and to comply with NEC. Other alternatives
include looping the house with a buried bare copper wire. But
again, this is typically only required for high 'strike
frequency' locations - more a function of neighborhood
geology.

A problem with the water idea is a loose ground rod. A
ground rod must be firm in ground when installed. A loose
ground rod is not earthed. Ground rod is further compromised
if using threaded joints. Ground rod should be monolithic
until well below frost line.

If antenna is not located near to service entrance and
single point ground, then antenna may require its own earth
ground. This in addition to the coax ground. IOW either the
antenna is part of your structure and earthed at the service
entrance ground; or antenna is earthed as if a lightning
rod. If the antenna connection to earth ground is
significantly shorter than connection to service entrance,
then antenna must also have its own earth ground rod located
as directly under the antenna as possible. This so that
lightning takes a short path to earth; does not seek
alternative paths via other items such as chimney or interior
wire.

If installing for commercial broadcaster reliability, then
the inductor from center core is additional protection. But
most industry professionals say the center conductor will leak
sufficiently to the outer shield making no center conductor
connection necessary. IOW that ground block sold in Home
Depot or Radio Shack (to earth only outer shield to single
point earth ground) is more than sufficient protection for
most residences. Again, neighborhood history will apply.
Inductor adds only minor improvement; a function of local
history and other considerations.

Disconnecting to protect equipment is unreliable because
humans are not reliable. Humans are only available only 1 in
three hours - and that assumes humans are home often.
Protection must be installed virtually 24 hours every day and
must be fully sufficient even when using the equipment.
Disconnecting is just convenient extra protection made
unnecessary by properly earthing.

Again, you have soil that typically makes poor earth
grounds. This will be especially a problem if more conductive
earth lies beneath - such as limestone. Ground rod would need
be deeper to make contact with that limestone. If geology
changes beneath building, then that too can create earthing
problems. Point being the best earth ground must be the
single point earth ground.

If using multiple rods, then those rods need be connected by
buried bare copper wire. Some do this by digging a hole, then
driving ground rod into bottom of that hole. A four or six
inch plastic pipe lines the hole. Buried bare copper wire
clamps to earth ground rod AND can be inspected through that
covered plastic pipe. Integrity of that wire to rod clamp is
important.

Forget about salting the earth. Some have lined 'buried
copper wire' trench with better material such as trailings
from a steel mill. This tends to improve the transition from
buried copper wire to earth while not destroying the copper.
Tailings are a superior idea to salt since salt will leach
away before the year is gone. But most don't bother. They
simply bury the wire.

Notice the concept. The most critical and essential feature
of any protection 'system' is defined by that single point
earth ground. The quality of that earth ground and how
connections are made to that central earth ground determines
system effectiveness. Single point grounding is the most
critical component in a protection system.

wrote:
That's a slick idea, we're sandy loam and clay around here. Next
time I sink a ground rod I'll remember the water.

--
Go 40 42 12

In , w_tom wrote:

If in sandy loom, then a single ground rod may not be
sufficient. Neighborhood history will apply. Previous
lightning damage in the last ten years? If so, then the
single point ground may be expanded with more rods; spaced as
Frank suggests and to comply with NEC. Other alternatives
include looping the house with a buried bare copper wire. But
again, this is typically only required for high 'strike
frequency' locations - more a function of neighborhood
geology.


Sandy loam is better than average not just for grounding, but also for
ground-wave propogation and gardening. Regardless, it's the subsoil that really
matters. Unless you live in the desert, one good rod is enough to provide a
direction for the lightning to travel, which is the basic purpose. Any ground,
even one in poor soil, can be improved by running radials from the rod, which is
far better at dissipating a lightning strike than using multiple ground rods.
The only exception to this is, as I stated before, when the main ground rod is
located next to a basement. In that case, tie the ground rods together, but
maintain a central grounding point at the main ground rod ('star' grounding).
And avoid loops!


A problem with the water idea is a loose ground rod.


Again you are talking about things about which you know nothing. Most of the
dirt that is displaced by the rod doesn't make it to the surface, although you
do get wet while going down those first couple feet. The resulting mud settles
down into the gap and hardens like concrete. Once you turn off the water and let
it set for an hour or so, you couldn't pull the blasting thing out with a
backhoe. And there is only about a foot or two near the surface that needs to be
filled which is easily done by rinsing the muddy splatter back into the hole.


A
ground rod must be firm in ground when installed. A loose
ground rod is not earthed. Ground rod is further compromised
if using threaded joints.


If the threads were exposed it would probably -improve- the efficiency of the
ground by increasing the surface area. But since they aren't, the point is moot.


Ground rod should be monolithic
until well below frost line.


Pipes burst when water is trapped as it freezes. Both the top and bottom of the
pipe are open, therefore no bursting. And since the bottom is open, there should
be no standing water to freeze -- unless you put it there just to make your life
more complicated.


If antenna is not located near to service entrance and
single point ground, then antenna may require its own earth
ground. This in addition to the coax ground. IOW either the
antenna is part of your structure and earthed at the service
entrance ground; or antenna is earthed as if a lightning
rod.


Depends on the antenna.


If the antenna connection to earth ground is
significantly shorter than connection to service entrance,
then antenna must also have its own earth ground rod located
as directly under the antenna as possible. This so that
lightning takes a short path to earth; does not seek
alternative paths via other items such as chimney or interior
wire.


First off, if the line from the antenna to the grounding rod is shorter than the
line from the grounding rod to the shack, it might be time to do a little
research on alternative antenna systems. Second, and it seems you missed this
point the first three times, electricity (lightning included) will take ANY AND
ALL paths to ground that are available. It will easily jump from an antenna to a
chimney, interior wire, plumbing vent, phone line, or anything else it finds to
be a convenient path to earth AS WELL AS the antenna! Anytime the voltage in the
path = the spark-gap potential it WILL arc, and to whatever it arcs WILL become
a parallel current path. If you think that all the current will go to the
closest ground rod and ignore any electrically connected ground path further
away, or any other potential ground path connected or not, then you have
ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE what you are talking about regarding electricity.


If installing for commercial broadcaster reliability, then
the inductor from center core is additional protection. But
most industry professionals say the center conductor will leak
sufficiently to the outer shield making no center conductor
connection necessary.....


Well, I'm going to stop here because this is worse than beating a dead horse.
You clearly don't know what you are talking about, and you are very bad at
making stuff up to try and hide your ignorance. I don't know what your
motivation is to spew your BS but there is no excuse for it. Even if you are a
vampire and the public library is only open during daylight hours, or you are
permanently confined to your bubble, or too fat to get out your front door, you
can still have a friend get some educational materials for you. Or have you
****ed off all your friends by feeding them the same BS that you are trying to
pass off in here? Don't bother answering, because I really don't care and it
would probably be more BS anyway.

Just a word of advice: Most of the people in this newsgroup aren't as
technically gullible as you might think (at least not any more). If you want to
show people how intelligent you -really- are, quit with the BS and learn a
little more about the subject.







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Frank Gillinad wrote:
Pipes burst when water is trapped as it

freezes.


Not all pipes burst, not all states have freeze, and nobody cares about
you playing in the snow.

The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong

In ,
(Twistedhed) wrote:

Frank Gillinad wrote:
Pipes burst when water is trapped as it

freezes.


Not all pipes burst, not all states have freeze, and nobody cares about
you playing in the snow.


All correct. What's your point, Dave?







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Frank does not even know a simple earthing concept. Frozen
ground is not conductive. Earthing is installed below the
frost line for obvious reasons. Had he known this simple
fact and not spent so much times insulting others, then he
would not have hyped so much venom about freezing water in
pipes. Earthing below the frost line. What does that have to
do with frozen pipes? This is about CB station grounding. So
why is Frank suddenly talking about plumbing?

Twistedhed wrote:
Frank Gillinad wrote:
Pipes burst when water is trapped as it freezes.

Not all pipes burst, not all states have freeze, and nobody
cares about you playing in the snow.

The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a
direct proportion to the intensity with which others try to
prove him wrong

A benchmark in this technology is Polyphaser. These
application note applies to your questions:
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1002.asp
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1024.asp
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1026.asp
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1025.asp
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1003.asp

wrote:
That's a slick idea, we're sandy loam and clay around here. Next
time I sink a ground rod I'll remember the water.

In , w_tom wrote:

A benchmark in this technology is Polyphaser. These
application note applies to your questions:
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1002.asp
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1024.asp
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1026.asp
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1025.asp
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_PEN1003.asp


Lot's of theory but no practical value. The use of a star ground ("Single Point
Ground") system for lightning protection of the whole building + tower requires
the use of an isolated or 'floating' power supply; i.e, an isolated generator or
dedicated pole-pig. Marconi discovered this a century ago. And for the record,
all high-tech gizmos designed to compensate for the inductive reactance of power
and transmission lines during a lightning strike have failed miserably because
lightning has no fixed frequency. You can verify this with your local power
company or public library.








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Frank Gillinad wrote:
And for the record, all high-tech gizmos

designed to compensate for the inductive

reactance of power and transmission lines

during a lightning strike have failed miserably

because lightning has no fixed frequency.



Frequency has no relation to the success or failure of lightning
protection devices in the manner you implied.



You

can verify this with your local power company

or public library.



Your posts are no more pertinent than any others,,,less, in fact, due to
your inability to separate your personal issues and feelings from any
relative discussion, illustrating you have yet to communicate
effectively. You are not above any other,,,you have the option of
tossing your ideas about and it's up to us, not you, to believe you or
not. After being proved incorrect so many times, coupled with your usual
hostility, one can plainly see supporters of your behavior appear to be
limited to N3CVJ, N7VCF, KC8LDO, WA3MOJ, and N8WWM.





The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong

In ,
(Twistedhed) wrote:

Frank Gillinad wrote:
And for the record, all high-tech gizmos

designed to compensate for the inductive

reactance of power and transmission lines

during a lightning strike have failed miserably

because lightning has no fixed frequency.



Frequency has no relation to the success or failure of lightning
protection devices in the manner you implied.


Again, absolutely correct. And again, what's your point?


You

can verify this with your local power company

or public library.



Your posts are no more pertinent than any others,,,less, in fact, due to
your inability to separate your personal issues and feelings from any
relative discussion, illustrating you have yet to communicate
effectively. You are not above any other,,,you have the option of
tossing your ideas about and it's up to us, not you, to believe you or
not. After being proved incorrect so many times, coupled with your usual
hostility, one can plainly see supporters of your behavior appear to be
limited to N3CVJ, N7VCF, KC8LDO, WA3MOJ, and N8WWM.


SOBR.







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