In , jim wrote:



Frank Gilliland wrote:
In , jim wrote:



MrTimNebo wrote:

jay is the REAL deal.............




i went back and looked a little closer this time and saw what i was
looking for. you are right tim, jay is a respected poster to this board.
dont know where the 12 million cbers number came from but its irrelevant.



That number came from Jay, and it is very relevant because it is one of several
claims he has made, yet refuses to back up with facts under the excuse that they
are 'marketing secrets'. I'm can't say that his antennas are junk -- they might
be outstanding antennas, but since I have never seen or tested one I can't say
one way or the other. What I -can- say is that when it comes to marketing, Jay's
"facts" leave a lot to be desired.


fair enough. how do you trust the manufacturers claims for the ant's you
bought?


I don't. Fact is, no antenna manufacturer can make a definitive claim as to an
antenna's performance in every given installation (execpt maybe for dishes). If
it's a full-sized 1/4-wave ground-plane vertical, chances are it will perform no
better than any other 1/4-wave ground-plane vertical -regardless- of who made
it. Same with 5/8-wave verticals. If you can build one yourself from scratch it
will probably perform just as well as one made by Jay or any other manufacturer.


As for being a "respected poster to this board", I guess that depends on your
point of view. He seems to be well-respected by the keyclowns since he promotes
illegal operation. OTOH, he comes across with an attitude haughtier than my own,
even to the point of appointing himself as the newsgroup's polite-police. And I
won't even go into the technical discussions except to say that for a person who
purports himself to be knowledgable about radio and electronics, he lacks much
of the theory and experience one would expect such an 'expert' to have.

he is an antenna manufacturer. nothing to do with moded radio's.


Then the archives are filled with a whole lot of forgeries of Jay.


how do you know what his radio pedigree is? for that matter how does one
know what your experience is other than your claims? works both ways.


The difference is that I back up my technical opinions with logic, facts and
authoritative references. Very few people in this group, regardless of
'pedigree', Jay included, have ever been able to make such a claim.







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In , (MrTimNebo)
wrote:

the 12 million cb'ers has nothing to do with anything its just the only thing
frank has ever been able to call jay on in his entire life and he hates that a
fine extra class ham and cb'er like jay puts out such a nice cb product and
happens to know more about antennas than frank himself. it's always ate him up
and its clear to see. it's been a long lasting feud that wasn't worth jay
staying around for. frank is a bully and has drove off alot of good people that
should still be here.


Yeah, right. People like Sean who has 4000 friends that are CBers in the greater
San Diego area; or like Eitner, the self-declared "CB amp god"; or like Skippy,
the sweep-tube-loving CB-amp-head of a ham whose theory of triode operation
consists of "it's part of a bigger picture". If you really miss the lot of these
tech-wannabes that pushed "Bird-watts" and "swang" as good things, then nobody
is stopping you from whining to another, more appropriate group. I would
recommend "alt.mythology.cb" or "alt.religion.voodoo.cb-amps". Until then, go
smoke your dope, hose your skanks, and leave the technical topics for those of
us that can think for ourselves.







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In , Steveo
wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:
I'm can't say that his antennas
are junk -- they might be outstanding antennas, but since I have never
seen or tested one I can't say one way or the other. What I -can- say is
that when it comes to marketing, Jay's "facts" leave a lot to be desired.

I've had one for a couple years and can honestly say it's well built,
and works very well. They're not cheap -$- tho.


I don't doubt it. But since you have one, does it meets all the other claims Jay
has made? Have you had 100mph+ winds lately? Did you have RFI that went away
after installing this antenna?









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Frank Gilliland wrote:
In , Steveo
wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:
I'm can't say that his antennas
are junk -- they might be outstanding antennas, but since I have never
seen or tested one I can't say one way or the other. What I -can- say
is that when it comes to marketing, Jay's "facts" leave a lot to be
desired.

I've had one for a couple years and can honestly say it's well built,
and works very well. They're not cheap -$- tho.

I don't doubt it. But since you have one, does it meets all the other
claims Jay has made? Have you had 100mph+ winds lately? Did you have RFI
that went away after installing this antenna?

Luckily no RFI or 100 mph winds to deal with. It did fine in
70+ tho.

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:23:52 -0800, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

In , Steveo
wrote:

Frank Gilliland wrote:
I'm can't say that his antennas
are junk -- they might be outstanding antennas, but since I have never
seen or tested one I can't say one way or the other. What I -can- say is
that when it comes to marketing, Jay's "facts" leave a lot to be desired.

I've had one for a couple years and can honestly say it's well built,
and works very well. They're not cheap -$- tho.


I don't doubt it. But since you have one, does it meets all the other claims Jay
has made? Have you had 100mph+ winds lately? Did you have RFI that went away
after installing this antenna?

On those two points, while I don't have first hand knowledge, Jay,
having the fortune of living near the Mojave, has a lot of space to do
some unorthodox testing. His 100 MPH wind claim comes from a test
where he mounted one of his antennas in a truck and drove it at 100
MPH (Which is the same as the wind blowing at 100 MPH). I remember
reading about the tests when they happened.

The other claim about RFI is also legitimate. If you replace an
antenna such as an Antron 99, which has poor RF decoupling and
creates a strong near field radiation pattern, with a standard 5/8th
ground plane style antenna, in most cases RFI will be reduced. This is
nothing unique about Jay's antenna, but it is a true characteristic of
the basic design.

Dave
"Sandbagger"
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj

From: (Frank=A0Gilliland)
In , Steveo
wrote:
Frank Gilliland wrote:
I'm can't say that his antennas

are junk -- they might be outstanding

antennas, but since I have never seen or

tested one I can't say one way or the other.



No one expects you to believe anyone else's claims. Your skepticism and
unhealthy cynicism is a character flaw tick.

What I -can- say is that when it comes to

marketing, Jay's "facts" leave a lot to be

desired.




And your qualifications regarding marketing leave much more to be
desired.
-

I've had one for a couple years and can honestly say it's well built,
and works very well. They're not cheap -$- tho.
-
I don't doubt it. But since you have one, does

it meets all the other claims Jay has made?

Have you had 100mph+ winds lately?



Easily. The last "no name" storm destroyed several homes and properties,
caused millions of dollars in damage, and even though my antenna looked
horizontal at times, it was unscathed. This doesn't begin to take into
consideration the countless hurricane spawned storms and winds it has
been through. No problem.
In addition to your ignorance concerning antennas as relating to HF, you
now present your lack of intellect concerning the weather in your own
country.


Did you have RFI that went away after

installing this antenna?



Didn't have any RFI. My receive slightly improved upon installation.



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I had the opportunity to frequently communicate with Jay when he was first getting into the business. His initial goal was to come up with an "as good as or better than" replacement for the discontinued 5/8 wave Hygain Super penetrator base station antenna. And he did! Then he started improving his product's design by trial and error testing, (Extensive and exhausting testing regarding a lot of time in automobiles with portable field strength meters). When he started delivering his first antennas, he had a policy of free replacement of any parts that failed , either from high winds, lightning, high power, etc... He then incorporated those heavier duty parts into all new antennas he made to eliminate those 'weak links'. This process continued to improve the product over time to where I believe he has earned the right to make some boisterous claims about his product based on his field success; rather than some engineer's mathamatical determination of theoretical antenna gain VS an isotropic source. He might not be a graduate engineer, but in my opinion he certainly deserves credit for being smart, hard working, and honest.

Dennis #12