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Old May 13th 04, 04:43 AM
Landshark
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dave Hall" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:52:46 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:




So what you are saying, in essence, is that people are well aware of
the rules. If they choose to break them they will do so at their own
risk.

Yes

Efforts to enforce the rules are a waste of time, since it will
not stem the tide of irresponsible behavior. Is that about right?

No. It is the job of the duly appointed Officer (Sheriff, constable,
Highway Patrolman, Trooper) to enforce the laws, not me.

Right, but it's the responsibility of every citizen to apply the
social equivalent of peer pressure to those who refuse to "tow the
line". This form of intimidation was widely employed in days long
gone, but has largely been abandoned in this age of indifference.

Dave, peer pressure might work among friends, but complete strangers
couldn't give a rats ass.

Do you think that this may be a part of the problem with society these
days?

No. I believe the problems lays in the up bring and teachings
from Family & Friends in most cases.

I would agree, and add that upbringing doesn't end at age 18.


If no one is willing to support the laws, and instead place that
job fully on the shoulders of LEO, is it any surprise that there are
so many people willing to ignore those same laws?

I think you should support the job that Law enforcement is doing,
but that does not mean chasing down speeders and people that do
break minor laws.

People need to be made aware that "minor laws" are not always as
"minor" as they may think. Many people believed that crimes such as
cable TV theft of service were "minor" because what was being stolen
was not physically tangible. But when the lost revenue for the cable
companies were added to the picture, it's not such a "victimless"
crime.

Speeding, on the surface, does not seem to be a big deal either. But
consider what can happen when there is a traffic mishap. Speed lessens
reaction time, and increases the potential for damage and injury.

Most laws were not created to ruin people's fun. They were created to
protect society as a collective whole.


There would be no reason for me to go chasing after a speeder
and pull along side of him and start to berate him on how
he was speeding. It would just **** him off and maybe create
an even worse situation, road rage.

Maybe so, but if people routinely did this, there would be a lot less
people speeding, and the cops would have an easier job.

Sorry, I'll disagree. Each to their own opinion


Any cop will tell you not to confront a law breaker, call them and
let them know, that is their job. Throw a ball in front of a speeding
car, make him swerve, possibly crash, injure himself or someone
other, you will be the law breaker, not the speeder.

That would not be a good idea. But leaving a little "note" on the
offender's car every time it happens, including the forwarding of
their license number to the cops, might make someone think a little.

To get a ticket, an officer must see the offence happen,
just telling him that Jimmie was speeding won't do anything.
Maybe if we all lived in Mayberry RFD something might
happen, but not in this day & age.

As a parent, I have become very conscious of people speeding through
residential neighborhoods. I would hate to have my kid or an
neighbor's kid fall victim to someone who's ignoring a "nuisance" law.

Good Luck! I've gone to the city and county councils, tried
to get the street closed at one end, to prevent all the people
from speeding down my street to get over to their street
faster, but not a chance. Speed bumps? Yeah right! I
don't want to hear the sound of cars "jumping" the speed
bumps at all hours of the night & day. So the best they
can offer is "selective" enforcement, LOL!! Useless!


Do we, as American citizens, not have a responsibility to stand up for
what is right? Do we have a responsibility to instill the need to be
more law abiding?

Yes, but as for "enforcement" of most laws, that is the responsibility of
the Police, not average Joe on the street.

The police are given the jurisdiction to make arrests and levy fines.
But we all share the responsibility to make it known that we will not
stand by and allow these things to go on. By doing nothing, you are
giving your passive condonation, which further re-enforced the
attitude that breaking the law is "ok".

Here's where we part company Dave....... I AM NOT A
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER! I will report it to
the local authorities, hope that they handle it accordingly,
that is the reason I pay taxes.


Like in the case of illegal CB use, it may seem that the guys
advocating legal operation are grossly outnumbered, but to ignore it,
is giving your acceptance of it.



What event(s) took place that made it seem more "cool" to be a law
breaking rebel, rather than someone who obeys the rules?

Don't know, again up bringing, but look at it this way, if
there were no traffic fines, cities, counties etc etc would
be broke.

A capitalist solution to a social problem. Turn the problem into a
windfall. Maybe if the fines were raised sufficiently, people might be
less inclined to take the risk.


When did social responsibility give way to social indifference?

Oh, mid 70's I would think.

I would agree. I'm still waiting for the pendulum to swing back.


Dave
"Sandbagger"


Landshark


--
Courage is what it takes to stand up
and speak; courage is also what it
takes to sit down and listen.


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  #85   Report Post  
Old May 13th 04, 11:59 AM
Dave Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default
On 12 May 2004 19:10:22 GMT, Steveo
wrote:

Dave Hall wrote:
Like in the case of illegal CB use, it may seem that the guys
advocating legal operation are grossly outnumbered, but to ignore it,
is giving your acceptance of it.

Hypocrite.

Dave Hall wrote:
Granted this turns a 800 watt peak amp into a 200 watt amp (Doesn't
sound so glamourous), but for my type of operating, this works the best.


It's never too late to reform.

I've readily admitted that I was one of the "bad boys" to some degree,
back in my younger and somewhat socially irresponsible days. I was a
product of the 60's and 70's, and it took a little time and maturity
to finally put things into their proper perspective.

I still enjoy talking about the technical aspects of radio, including
things which operationally are illegal on CB, but interesting from an
experimenter's standpoint.

And my statement still stands. If you believe in something, you need
to fight for it. Otherwise, you have no right to complain when things
are not the way you like them.


Dave
"Sandbagger"
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj

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  #86   Report Post  
Old May 13th 04, 12:33 PM
Dave Hall
 
Posts: n/a
Default
On Thu, 13 May 2004 03:43:39 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:


"Dave Hall" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:52:46 GMT, "Landshark"
wrote:




So what you are saying, in essence, is that people are well aware of
the rules. If they choose to break them they will do so at their own
risk.

Yes

Efforts to enforce the rules are a waste of time, since it will
not stem the tide of irresponsible behavior. Is that about right?

No. It is the job of the duly appointed Officer (Sheriff, constable,
Highway Patrolman, Trooper) to enforce the laws, not me.

Right, but it's the responsibility of every citizen to apply the
social equivalent of peer pressure to those who refuse to "tow the
line". This form of intimidation was widely employed in days long
gone, but has largely been abandoned in this age of indifference.

Dave, peer pressure might work among friends, but complete strangers
couldn't give a rats ass.


You'd be surprised at just how many people's habits are influenced by
the habits of other, complete strangers. Take a look at some of the
ridiculous fashion trends over the years, which have nonetheless
become popular, for the most obvious evidence of this peer influence.


People need to be made aware that "minor laws" are not always as
"minor" as they may think. Many people believed that crimes such as
cable TV theft of service were "minor" because what was being stolen
was not physically tangible. But when the lost revenue for the cable
companies were added to the picture, it's not such a "victimless"
crime.

Speeding, on the surface, does not seem to be a big deal either. But
consider what can happen when there is a traffic mishap. Speed lessens
reaction time, and increases the potential for damage and injury.

Most laws were not created to ruin people's fun. They were created to
protect society as a collective whole.


There would be no reason for me to go chasing after a speeder
and pull along side of him and start to berate him on how
he was speeding. It would just **** him off and maybe create
an even worse situation, road rage.

Maybe so, but if people routinely did this, there would be a lot less
people speeding, and the cops would have an easier job.

Sorry, I'll disagree. Each to their own opinion

Ok, you have the right to disagree. Since you do not agree with my
idea of active community involvement in awareness of laws, then what
would you suggest that we, as a society, do to stem the rising tide of
indifference to laws?


Any cop will tell you not to confront a law breaker, call them and
let them know, that is their job. Throw a ball in front of a speeding
car, make him swerve, possibly crash, injure himself or someone
other, you will be the law breaker, not the speeder.

That would not be a good idea. But leaving a little "note" on the
offender's car every time it happens, including the forwarding of
their license number to the cops, might make someone think a little.

To get a ticket, an officer must see the offence happen,
just telling him that Jimmie was speeding won't do anything.
Maybe if we all lived in Mayberry RFD something might
happen, but not in this day & age.

Maybe that needs to change to some degree. You're right of course, and
that knowledge just enables lawbreakers. Perhaps if people could be
cited without a LEO physically witnessing the offense, the problem
would diminish.

Technology offers yet another solution. GPS technology and OBD-II
emission control systems can be integrated to the point where all
functions of the car can be monitored. If the car travels down a road
over the posted speed limit, it sends a little "On-Star" type message
to a LEO, and a ticket in then issued. This has the added benefit of
enabling the tracking of the car if it were to be stolen. This is
similar to the idea of mounting cameras to take pictures of people
running red lights.
People will scream "Big Brother". But maybe that's what it takes when
you can't trust people to behave on their own.


As a parent, I have become very conscious of people speeding through
residential neighborhoods. I would hate to have my kid or an
neighbor's kid fall victim to someone who's ignoring a "nuisance" law.

Good Luck! I've gone to the city and county councils, tried
to get the street closed at one end, to prevent all the people
from speeding down my street to get over to their street
faster, but not a chance. Speed bumps? Yeah right! I
don't want to hear the sound of cars "jumping" the speed
bumps at all hours of the night & day. So the best they
can offer is "selective" enforcement, LOL!! Useless!

Hmm.... I'm not sure how I want to proceed here. On the one hand I can
lambast you for your duplicitous position with regard to "selective"
speeding (It's ok, just don't do it on my street). On the other hand,
I might be tempted to say that you give up too easily. Politicians
have to answer to the people, usually those who make the most noise.
Record the problem. Present the issue to the town council, their
decisions are public record. Make it known that if, at some point in
the future, a kid does get killed due to a speeding car, that they can
be held as a party to the crime, due to their negligence, and refusal
to act to mitigate the situation in the face of irrefutable evidence.


Do we, as American citizens, not have a responsibility to stand up for
what is right? Do we have a responsibility to instill the need to be
more law abiding?

Yes, but as for "enforcement" of most laws, that is the responsibility of
the Police, not average Joe on the street.

The police are given the jurisdiction to make arrests and levy fines.
But we all share the responsibility to make it known that we will not
stand by and allow these things to go on. By doing nothing, you are
giving your passive condonation, which further re-enforced the
attitude that breaking the law is "ok".

Here's where we part company Dave....... I AM NOT A
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER! I will report it to
the local authorities, hope that they handle it accordingly,
that is the reason I pay taxes.

We're not really parting company. I'm not advocating that you play
cop. But reporting the issue repeatedly WILL get the attention of the
LEO's, and the problem will get some attention. If nobody takes the
responsibility to make those reports, the cops will think that all's
well in happytown.

Dave
"Sandbagger"
http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj
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  #90   Report Post  
Old May 13th 04, 02:45 PM
Landshark
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
FlavaFlav wrote:
leland never said he was gonna key your car assflap. liar

More lies.
I won't retire, but I might retread.

Hey dude,
The history Channel had a show on muscle
cars of the 60's and early seventies last night.
Man, was that cool. All the cars with commercials
from that era and designers & engineers giving
commentary.

Landshark


--
Treat people as if they were what
they ought to be and you will help
them become what they are capable
of becoming.


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