snip
Further tests showed that if you replace the 9 foot stainless steel
whip with a 9 foot one inch silver pipe then the full length silver
pipe would beat all others tested. Including the X-terminator


I don't think anyone, including you, keeps a stock of 1" silver pipe
laying around just waiting to be cut and tuned for a CB antenna. But
oddly enough, I do. So after all your whining about me doing my own
tests, I'll repeat your test with the silver pipe. Now I'll need the
parameters of the test:

1. What was the final trim length/frequency of that pipe?

I don't remember

2. SWR?

I don't remember but the lengths were adjusted for best SWR.

3. Field strength relative to 9' SS and at what distance?

3 s units for the SS whip............ 3.05 s units for the
X-terminator .......... 3.1 s units for the silver pipe.

Multiple a/b comparisons to determine the gain order.

A consistent gain order was evident.

The numerical values were obtained by averaging.


4. What was used for a FSM?

A Tentec radio

5. What was the vehicle used and the location of the antenna mount?

On the roof of a pickup. (quick disconnects)

6. What was used to couple the pipe to the mount?

Hose clamp

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:36:24 -0400, wrote:


snip
Further tests showed that if you replace the 9 foot stainless steel
whip with a 9 foot one inch silver pipe then the full length silver
pipe would beat all others tested. Including the X-terminator


I don't think anyone, including you, keeps a stock of 1" silver pipe
laying around just waiting to be cut and tuned for a CB antenna. But
oddly enough, I do. So after all your whining about me doing my own
tests, I'll repeat your test with the silver pipe. Now I'll need the
parameters of the test:

1. What was the final trim length/frequency of that pipe?

I don't remember

2. SWR?

I don't remember but the lengths were adjusted for best SWR.

3. Field strength relative to 9' SS and at what distance?

3 s units for the SS whip............ 3.05 s units for the
X-terminator .......... 3.1 s units for the silver pipe.

14 miles

Multiple a/b comparisons to determine the gain order.

A consistent gain order was evident.

The numerical values were obtained by averaging.


4. What was used for a FSM?

A Tentec radio

5. What was the vehicle used and the location of the antenna mount?

On the roof of a pickup. (quick disconnects)

6. What was used to couple the pipe to the mount?

Hose clamp

In , wrote:


snip
Further tests showed that if you replace the 9 foot stainless steel
whip with a 9 foot one inch silver pipe then the full length silver
pipe would beat all others tested. Including the X-terminator


I don't think anyone, including you, keeps a stock of 1" silver pipe
laying around just waiting to be cut and tuned for a CB antenna. But
oddly enough, I do. So after all your whining about me doing my own
tests, I'll repeat your test with the silver pipe. Now I'll need the
parameters of the test:

1. What was the final trim length/frequency of that pipe?

I don't remember


.....uh huh. Why am I not suprised?


2. SWR?

I don't remember but the lengths were adjusted for best SWR.


Ok..... so how did you adjust it?


3. Field strength relative to 9' SS and at what distance?

3 s units for the SS whip............ 3.05 s units for the
X-terminator .......... 3.1 s units for the silver pipe.


It would be nice to try this with an X-terminator, except I'm not
going to waste my money. Is there anyone in Spokane with one of these
and is willing to let it be used for this test, as well as corroborate
the test results?


Multiple a/b comparisons to determine the gain order.


???????


A consistent gain order was evident.


"Evident" requires "evidence". Where is the data? Was it even
recorded?


The numerical values were obtained by averaging.


Averaging what? Did you get enough fluctuation between seperate
key-ups that the data required averaging? How many times was each
antenna keyed-up? Better yet, since you averaged the readings they
must have been recorded, so where is that data?


4. What was used for a FSM?

A Tentec radio


Tentec has made lots of radios with different signal-strength meter
circuits. I can't quantify (and therefore validate) your meager data
without knowing the model.


5. What was the vehicle used and the location of the antenna mount?

On the roof of a pickup. (quick disconnects)


Make & model? In case you haven't noticed, pickups come in different
lengths, and the length can have a significant influence on SWR. I may
not be able to obtain the same make and model, but I'm sure I can come
close (unless it's an old Datsun, Chevy Luv, Dodge D-50, or some other
kiddie-truck).


6. What was used to couple the pipe to the mount?

Hose clamp


...........ok, I'll bite: How do you use a hose clamp to mount 1" pipe
to a 3/8-24 stud?






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If you have any other question just do a google search.

The bottom line is that there is only one way to determine
what antenna will outperform another antenna when we
know the results will be very close.

When the results are very close the only way to determine
the best antenna is by the use of a side by side comparison.

A side by side comparison can only be done by physically
having the antennas and testing them. It can't be done here.

Conclusion. If you really are interested in the truth, you'd just
do the test yourself.

In , wrote:

If you have any other question just do a google search.


I already have:

http://tinyurl.com/2qg7k
http://tinyurl.com/3xpvc

For starters, you claimed that you tested a 1" silver pipe, but in
your previous tests you claimed no such thing -- the closest thing to
a 1" silver pipe would have been the "one inch wire braid covering a
fiberglass rod 9' tall" that you used in your first test. So which was
it; a 1" braid, a 1" silver pipe, or both? And if you went through the
effort and expense to test a 1" silver pipe, why was that not reported
in any of the previous test results? And whether it was pipe or braid,
how did you mount it to a 3/8-24 stud using a hose clamp? How was it
tuned and/or pruned?

In posts previous to the first test you claimed that the 7' Firestik
outperforms the 108" whip. The first test mentions that both a Tentec
-and- a Kenwood were used as receivers for the test, but the data
shows a discrepancy in the received signal strength between the two
radios. And this discrepancy was not just in your 'averaged' results
but also in your "gain order". Your first test had the following
'averages' from the Tentec:

1" braid -- 3.1 s units
5'4" X-terminator -- 3.05
108" SS whip -- 3
7' Firestik -- 2.65

From the Kenwood:

1" braid -- 2.3 s units
5'4" X-terminator -- 2.2
7' Firestik -- 2.15
108" SS whip -- 2.1

Your second test yielded a consistent "gain order" of:

1. X-terminator
2. Firestik
3. 108" whip

Just recently you claimed:

silver pipe -- 3.1
X-terminator -- 3.05
108" SS whip -- 3

These latest figures are consistent with your first test with the
exception of the silver pipe (it seems that 1" silver pipe is just as
efficient as 1" braid over fiberglass, huh?) Yet I can't help but
notice that these results have one, and -ONLY- one thing in common:
the X-terminator outperformed everything except the pipe/braid.

Now since ALL the other data was contradictory, how did you justify
the validity of the ONE and ONLY thing that was consistent? Less than
24 hrs ago that "Relative field strength doesn't lie. Even if it's
your radio." How do you justify your inconsistent results when, by
your own admission, "relative field strength doesn't lie"?

Back to your 'averages'; In order to calculate an average you must
have a set of data. Unless you have a photographic memory, you must
have written down this data in order to calculate the average. That
means the data was recorded. Where is that data? And if you didn't
save the data (which means you didn't save the video tape from the
second test), then what was the standard deviation for each antenna?
This information is not in your previous posts but is required to
duplicate your test, because if I have a standard deviation that is
higher than yours then my conditions are fluctuating and my results
would be invalid.

I also require the make/model of the vehicle for reasons already
stated. This information is also not available in your previous posts.


The bottom line is that there is only one way to determine
what antenna will outperform another antenna when we
know the results will be very close.


"We" know no such thing.


When the results are very close the only way to determine
the best antenna is by the use of a side by side comparison.


The only way to validate -your- results is to duplicate -your- test.
If I do a test -my- way you will have room to whine about variables
between the methods. In order to eliminate those confounds, my test
must be done as closely as possible to the original test. I can't do
that without the information I am requesting.


A side by side comparison can only be done by physically
having the antennas and testing them. It can't be done here.


Where is "here"? The newsgroup? Of course it can't be done on the
newsgroup. It -can- be done in Spokane, but not without the
information I have requested in order to eliminate any significant
confounds.


Conclusion. If you really are interested in the truth, you'd just
do the test yourself.


That's what I am trying to do. Provide the information so I can
duplicate your test.






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Do your own test. I know the results. The X-Terminator and similar
antennas do match or better a 9 foot stainless steel whip.

The copper, silver, or silver braided antennas of one inch in diameter
at 9 feet will beat them all.

Stop whining and do your own test.

In , wrote:

Do your own test. I know the results. The X-Terminator and similar
antennas do match or better a 9 foot stainless steel whip.


I -have- done my own tests and I have -never- seen a loaded antenna
outperform an unloaded 1/4-wave whip, stainless steel or fiberglass.
That's why I am trying to duplicate -your- test -- a test where loaded
antennas -can- outperform an unloaded whip.


The copper, silver, or silver braided antennas of one inch in diameter
at 9 feet will beat them all.


Ok, so you tested 1" copper pipe, 1" silver pipe -AND- 1" braided
silver? Where on earth did you find 1" silver braid?


Stop whining and do your own test.


As I have stated before, the purpose of -my- test is to duplicate the
results of -your- test. I can't do that without the information I have
requested. It is absolutely impossible to perform all the tests and
calculations you claimed and -not- have that information. So are you
going to provide the information or not...........


Oh hell, why am I wasting my time...... of course you won't because
you can't. It's obvious that you never performed any of those tests.
They were probably devised and executed only in your imagination, and
were nothing more than an elaborate scheme to promote your unqualified
and unquantified opinions.

"Let's see, I used one inch braid over fiberglass..... no, wait, I
think it was silver pipe...... no, it was silver braid..... or maybe
it was tinned copper braid...... oh, NOW I remember, I tested copper
pipe, silver pipe, lead pipe, sewer pipe, copper braid, tinned copper
braid, silver braid, braided rope, braided hair and nylon panty-hose!
So there! Nyah!"

LOL!!!

Get bent, tnom.






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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 20:20:00 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote:

In , wrote:

Do your own test. I know the results. The X-Terminator and similar
antennas do match or better a 9 foot stainless steel whip.


I -have- done my own tests and I have -never- seen a loaded antenna
outperform an unloaded 1/4-wave whip, stainless steel or fiberglass.
That's why I am trying to duplicate -your- test -- a test where loaded
antennas -can- outperform an unloaded whip.

That's not my test. I specifically tested the X-terminator. Although
I know there are other similar loaded antennas that should do just as
well I can only make claims about this antenna.

The copper, silver, or silver braided antennas of one inch in diameter
at 9 feet will beat them all.


Ok, so you tested 1" copper pipe, 1" silver pipe -AND- 1" braided
silver? Where on earth did you find 1" silver braid?

Given to me to test. ( large ground strap wrapped around a fiberglass
form)

Stop whining and do your own test.


As I have stated before, the purpose of -my- test is to duplicate the
results of -your- test. I can't do that without the information I have
requested. It is absolutely impossible to perform all the tests and
calculations you claimed and -not- have that information. So are you
going to provide the information or not...........

Give me a break..............Are you a moron? A a/b test does not
take any calculations. Stop trying to make excusers.

Is A stronger than B?...............If so is A stronger than C? If so
is B stronger than C? Where's the calculation needed to get the
relative gain order?

Oh hell, why am I wasting my time...... of course you won't because
you can't. It's obvious that you never performed any of those tests.
They were probably devised and executed only in your imagination, and
were nothing more than an elaborate scheme to promote your unqualified
and unquantified opinions.

No................. You'll never performed the test. That's why you
won't stop whining.

"Let's see, I used one inch braid over fiberglass..... no, wait, I
think it was silver pipe...... no, it was silver braid..... or maybe
it was tinned copper braid...... oh, NOW I remember, I tested copper
pipe, silver pipe, lead pipe, sewer pipe, copper braid, tinned copper
braid, silver braid, braided rope, braided hair and nylon panty-hose!
So there! Nyah!"

LOL!!!

Get bent, tnom.


Whine whine whine