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Newbie CB User has ?'s Please someone advise
I just purchased a Cobra 19 DX III and a 36" base loaded magnet mount
antenna. So far I'm picking up pretty good, and transmitting well also. I don't think I'm getting out there as far as i can. Most likely this Friday I will be purchasing a Wilson 1000 Magnet Mount to replace the antenna I have now. Is that going to get me out there a little more (the wilson 1000) No modifications have been made to this radio and have not been able to find any either. I purchased it brand new at a Pilot Truckstop, and am sure it is only putting out 4 watts (fcc required). Will the Wilson make me receive further or transmit further or both, or neither? I'm new and feel it all has to do with how much your getting out ( 4 watts doesn't seem to good ) Maybe I don't need a new radio, maybe the wilson 1000 will do what I want it to do. I get so sick of losing communication once I'm not close to truckers anymore. What do I need to do? I want to make sure i am getting out as far as possible. My other dilemma: I've been looking here http://www.wilsonantennas.com/cobracb.shtml at some of the radios and the three that have caught my eye a Cobra 29 LTD Night Watch Classic Cobra 25 LTD Classic Cobra 148 GTL Classic The site also offers two tuning options before shipping. Which one should I go for? Seems like the Mega Tune. One more question below as well. The tuning options a The Mega Tune 29.99 Our Mega Tune is designed to provide you with loud booming audio while still maintaining a clean and clear signal. If you looking to sound raspy or bleed over many channels this defiantly isn't the modification for you. Our techs have worked very hard to perfect this modification. The mega tune will not void any factory warranties, it will not damage your radio and it will not make your radio run warmer than normal. We also do not remove or disable any part of the AMC or ALC circuit. We do upgrade various parts of the audio circuit with higher wattage or better quality parts. We also do a few other modifications that make the radios wave form, when viewed on an oscilloscope more linear. This means of course you will sound as loud as possible while still maintaining maximum clarity. If you are looking for maximum performance from your radio we recommend you have us perform this modification. We also completely warranty all work performed by our service department. The mega tune will also increase your peak power. Dual final radios after being mega tuned typically put out over 40 watts and single final radios typically put out over 30 watts. The True Tune 10.00 Our True Tune is like a basic peak and tune. When you receive your radio that have been True Tuned by Premiere Electronics you can rest assured that your radio is operating at it's maximum efficiency. We go through your radio and re-align the transmitter section. The reason this is necessary is because from the factory most radios just aren't working at their best. The factories don't have the time to sit down with every radio and precisely tune it. They generally get it in the ball park, but if you are interested in performance, you need the true tune. Every modification we perform is backed up with our unbeatable warranty! Like always, none of our work will void any factory warranties. Last question: The one that bugs me. I purchased a SWR Meter from Radio shack. It was the cheapest one they had and I am on a budget here, because some they had were way to expensive. The one I got was http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...ct%5Fid=21-534 I took it back because nothing seemed to make much difference, or I wasn't operating it right, seemed to always fall in the red. The antenna I have the only way to adjust is to move antenna up and down. Maybe I wasn't in a good location. I finally got it to 2.3, and just left it. My question is was I operating it right to finally get a 2.3 or is that just a cheap ass SWR Meter? I really hope someone has the time to answer and help out a newbie as I am very interested in Cb's since i finally broke down and got me one. I just want to be able to transmit and receive as far as possible without breaking the law to bad. Not ready for a amplifier or anything like that. I seem to like the site I am planning on purchasing from unless someone out here tells me there is no need for another radio because the Wilson 1000 will do what i want. I guess the reason i also like them is that they will tune and get everything running just right before they ship it. I know that wasn't done to the one I have now. If you want to email me feel free. |
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:02:55 -0400, Alex
wrote: I just purchased a Cobra 19 DX III and a 36" base loaded magnet mount antenna. So far I'm picking up pretty good, and transmitting well also. I don't think I'm getting out there as far as i can. Most likely this Friday I will be purchasing a Wilson 1000 Magnet Mount to replace the antenna I have now. Is that going to get me out there a little more (the wilson 1000) No modifications have been made to this radio and have not been able to find any either. I purchased it brand new at a Pilot Truckstop, and am sure it is only putting out 4 watts (fcc required). Will the Wilson make me receive further or transmit further or both, or neither? I'm new and feel it all has to do with how much your getting out ( 4 watts doesn't seem to good ) All domestic CB radios are rated at 4 watts. Unless you are running an amplifier, no one radio will significantly "put out" any better than another. What you use for an antenna, though, is a different story. The antenna will make a much bigger difference in signal than the radio. Generally speaking, the longer the antenna, the better it performs. The largest CB mobile antenna, is a 9' whip. If mounted in the center of a the vehicle, there isn't much that can touch it. Maybe I don't need a new radio, maybe the wilson 1000 will do what I want it to do. I get so sick of losing communication once I'm not close to truckers anymore. What do I need to do? I want to make sure i am getting out as far as possible. My other dilemma: I've been looking here http://www.wilsonantennas.com/cobracb.shtml at some of the radios and the three that have caught my eye a Cobra 29 LTD Night Watch Classic Cobra 25 LTD Classic Cobra 148 GTL Classic These are fairly nice radios, although there are continual rumors of diminished quality due to their place of manufacture. A better alternative would be the Uniden line of radios. My favorite is the Grant. The site also offers two tuning options before shipping. Which one should I go for? Seems like the Mega Tune. One more question below as well. The tuning options a The Mega Tune 29.99 Our Mega Tune is designed to provide you with loud booming audio while still maintaining a clean and clear signal. If you looking to sound raspy or bleed over many channels this defiantly isn't the modification for you. Our techs have worked very hard to perfect this modification. The mega tune will not void any factory warranties, it will not damage your radio and it will not make your radio run warmer than normal. We also do not remove or disable any part of the AMC or ALC circuit. We do upgrade various parts of the audio circuit with higher wattage or better quality parts. We also do a few other modifications that make the radios wave form, when viewed on an oscilloscope more linear. This means of course you will sound as loud as possible while still maintaining maximum clarity. If you are looking for maximum performance from your radio we recommend you have us perform this modification. We also completely warranty all work performed by our service department. The mega tune will also increase your peak power. Dual final radios after being mega tuned typically put out over 40 watts and single final radios typically put out over 30 watts. The True Tune 10.00 Our True Tune is like a basic peak and tune. When you receive your radio that have been True Tuned by Premiere Electronics you can rest assured that your radio is operating at it's maximum efficiency. We go through your radio and re-align the transmitter section. The reason this is necessary is because from the factory most radios just aren't working at their best. The factories don't have the time to sit down with every radio and precisely tune it. They generally get it in the ball park, but if you are interested in performance, you need the true tune. Every modification we perform is backed up with our unbeatable warranty! Like always, none of our work will void any factory warranties. Run, don't walk away from peak jobs. They do nothing more than remove your hard earned money and put it into someone else's hands. All that is usually involved is peaking the power output for maximum, and removing or reducing the affects of the modulation limiter. I won't go into the math here but in order to see even 1 "S" (signal) unit increase on another guy's meter, your radio would have to put out 4 times as much power as it did stock. It is VERY difficult to get 16 watts of dead key power from a 4 watt CB. It cannot be done by alignment alone. By the time someone "redesigns" the transmitter and replaces the parts necessary to get up to 16 watts, you are left with a radio that may very well be less reliable, or may have a dirty or unstable transmitter. If you truly want to get a boost in output power, you are better off with an amplifier. Yes, an amplifier is illegal as heck, but so is a peak job. Last question: The one that bugs me. I purchased a SWR Meter from Radio shack. It was the cheapest one they had and I am on a budget here, because some they had were way to expensive. The one I got was http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...ct%5Fid=21-534 I took it back because nothing seemed to make much difference, or I wasn't operating it right, seemed to always fall in the red. The antenna I have the only way to adjust is to move antenna up and down. Maybe I wasn't in a good location. I finally got it to 2.3, and just left it. My question is was I operating it right to finally get a 2.3 or is that just a cheap ass SWR Meter? That meter should do the job. How were you using it? To check SWR, you need to set it to the "CAL" position. Key the mike on your radio and adjust the calibrate knob on the meter to the red cal line at the right of the scale. Then switch to SWR and read the reflected power on the SWR scale. A good performing antenna will have an SWR less than 2:1 (1.5:1 preferable) Hope that helps... Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj |
N3CVJ wrote:
Run, don't walk away from peak jobs. A most certainly biased opinion. Just because YOU hacked up radios as an "independant (sic) contractor" and couldn't peak them properly doesn't mean the rest of the world should discount all the other techs. They do nothing more than remove your hard earned money and put it into someone else's hands. No wonder you couldn't make it as a tech. There are many reasons to "peak" radios. In fact, what *you* term "peak" encompasses virtually any mods or work to a radio, such as removing the cover and aligning or tuning. All that is usually involved is peaking the power output for maximum, and removing or reducing the affects of the modulation limiter. Ahhh,,,well, there you have it, mistakenly believing that all techs "usually" look at peaking a radio in the same incompetent manner as yourself. I won't go into the math here but in order to see even 1 "S" (signal) unit increase on another guy's meter, your radio would have to put out 4 times as much power as it did stock. You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic. It is VERY difficult to get 16 watts of dead key power from a 4 watt CB. If one was getting a 16 watt dead key from a cb, it would be just that,,a 16 watt cb and no longer a 4 watt cb. It cannot be done by alignment alone. By the time someone "redesigns" the transmitter and replaces the parts necessary to get up to 16 watts, you are left with a radio that may very well be less reliable, or may have a dirty or unstable transmitter. And you may be left with a radio that works quite well and exhibits none of the unfavorable qualities (read: glass half empty) of which you choose to focus. If you truly want to get a boost in output power, you are better off with an amplifier. Yes, an amplifier is illegal as heck, but so is a peak job. A tune isn't necessarily illegal, yet you have maintained "peak" and "tune" are synonyms by your past posts regarding the opening of radios. |
Twistedhed wrote: You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic. Twist: Actually, there is a correlation. If two radios are set up in a "fixed" location, each, and one transmits a carrier, there will be a reading on the "s" meter of the receiving radio. Assuming the two radios are far enough apart so that the transmitted signal does not register above, say, s5 on the receiver, it is possible to get a relative power reading from the transmitting radio. Now if the transmitting radio increases power fourfold, say from 4 watts to 16 watts, the receiving radio should now show s6 on its meter. This of course assumes that the receiving radio's ALC is tuned properly and that the s-meter is calibrated properly. In a properly calibrated receiver, a 3db increase in received signal strength should show about 1/2 of an S unit. Doubling the power output is the equivalent a 3db increase. It's a moot point, but output power does indeed have something to do with "s" units, to the receiving radio. There isn't a direct correlation, and most CB receivers probably aren't calibrated properly, but there is a correlation, nonetheless. To the original poster: as for the antenna advice, a Wilson 1000 is a decent antenna, and will do fine. You will notice increased receive and transmit range while still remaining legal. Hope this helps. -SSB |
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On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:34:23 GMT, sideband wrote:
Twistedhed wrote: You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic. Twist: Actually, there is a correlation. If two radios are set up in a "fixed" location, each, and one transmits a carrier, there will be a reading on the "s" meter of the receiving radio. Assuming the two radios are far enough apart so that the transmitted signal does not register above, say, s5 on the receiver, it is possible to get a relative power reading from the transmitting radio. Now if the transmitting radio increases power fourfold, say from 4 watts to 16 watts, the receiving radio should now show s6 on its meter. This of course assumes that the receiving radio's ALC is tuned properly and that the s-meter is calibrated properly. In a properly calibrated receiver, a 3db increase in received signal strength should show about 1/2 of an S unit. Doubling the power output is the equivalent a 3db increase. True, and 3 db is just barely noticable at the receive end Makes peaking a radio to get 1 more watt out of it more detrimental than beneficial. |
Alex wrote in
: I just purchased a Cobra 19 DX III and a 36" base loaded magnet mount antenna. So far I'm picking up pretty good, and transmitting well also. I don't think I'm getting out there as far as i can. How far are you transmitting? On a clear channel, or busy one? Most likely this Friday I will be purchasing a Wilson 1000 Magnet Mount to replace the antenna I have now. Is that going to get me out there a little more (the wilson 1000) No modifications have been made to this radio and have not been able to find any either. I purchased it brand new at a Pilot Truckstop, and am sure it is only putting out 4 watts (fcc required). Will the Wilson make me receive further or transmit further or both, or neither? I'm new and feel it all has to do with how much your getting out ( 4 watts doesn't seem to good ) 4 watts is actually a great deal of power. The first mistake a newcomer makes is believing power determines range. The Wilson antenna will increase both your transmit and receive range. Maybe I don't need a new radio, maybe the wilson 1000 will do what I want it to do. I get so sick of losing communication once I'm not close to truckers anymore. What do I need to do? I want to make sure i am getting out as far as possible. Is your radio tuned to your antenna? Again a newcomer mistake... not adjusting the SWR of your system. Just dropping a radio and antenna into a vehicle and operating is not all that is required. You must make sure the antenna/radio/vehicle combination are matched up with one another. You can search on the web for how to adjust SWR. Also, antenna location is important. Placing the antenna right in the middle of the roof of your vehicle is the optimum place to mount an antenna. Especially if it is a car. To make it simple.... the metal in your vehicle will act as a "guide" for radio waves. Wherever the most metal is is the direction the radio waves will be directed. The center of the vehivle will direct your signal equlally in all directions. Placing an antenna, say on the roof of a pickup truck will actully direct the signal BEHIND the vehicle, since you have the whole bed of the vehicle to guide the signal. Mounting your antenna, say on the driver's side mirror of a car will actually direct the signal to the left, side and rear of the vehicle, while sending a diminished signal to the front and left. Hope that makes sense. My other dilemma: I've been looking here http://www.wilsonantennas.com/cobracb.shtml at some of the radios and the three that have caught my eye a Cobra 29 LTD Night Watch Classic Cobra 25 LTD Classic Cobra 148 GTL Classic To be honest.... any and all radios will perform for the most party, the same. They differ in "bells and whistles" only. I had one of the first generation Cobry 19 Plus radios.... best sounding radio I ever had... perhaps the newer generations are similar. The site also offers two tuning options before shipping. Which one should I go for? Seems like the Mega Tune. One more question below as well. The tuning options a The Mega Tune 29.99 .... The True Tune 10.00 .... If you want to stay legal, stay away from this stuff. The only legal way to operate a radio is out of the box. I have yet to see a peak and tune that doesn't sound awful, or bleed over. To be honest, most radios ARE undertuned. You CAN get set up to run at the full legal 4 watts, and not exceed modulation limits. Just go to a trustworthy shop. Last question: The one that bugs me. I purchased a SWR Meter from Radio shack. It was the cheapest one they had and I am on a budget here, because some they had were way to expensive. The one I got was http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...&product%5Fid= 21-534 I took it back because nothing seemed to make much difference, or I wasn't operating it right, seemed to always fall in the red. The antenna I have the only way to adjust is to move antenna up and down. Maybe I wasn't in a good location. I finally got it to 2.3, and just left it. My question is was I operating it right to finally get a 2.3 or is that just a cheap ass SWR Meter? In the red is VERY BAD.... A factor in your range for sure. 2.3 is not too bad... you want an SWR under 3. See my above on antenna location. I figure you have your antanna tuned as good as it can be. Your SWR meter was working properly. All it does is tells you the truth. Some vehicle/antanna combinations don't agree with one another. I really hope someone has the time to answer and help out a newbie as I am very interested in Cb's since i finally broke down and got me one. I just want to be able to transmit and receive as far as possible without breaking the law to bad. Not ready for a amplifier or anything like that. Good deal.... best way to be. Hope I helped. |
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:34:23 GMT, sideband wrote:
Twistedhed wrote: You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic. Twist: Actually, there is a correlation. He knows that. He just likes to insult me. But he's way out of his element and way too far into mine if he wants to talk about radio theory. Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj |
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:25:28 GMT, Legal Radio
wrote: To make it simple.... the metal in your vehicle will act as a "guide" for radio waves. Wherever the most metal is is the direction the radio waves will be directed. The center of the vehivle will direct your signal equlally in all directions. Placing an antenna, say on the roof of a pickup truck will actully direct the signal BEHIND the vehicle, since you have the whole bed of the vehicle to guide the signal. Mounting your antenna, say on the driver's side mirror of a car will actually direct the signal to the left, side and rear of the vehicle, while sending a diminished signal to the front and left. Hope that makes sense. Too many lefts? :-) |
To be honest, most radios ARE undertuned. You CAN get set up to run at
the full legal 4 watts, and not exceed modulation limits. Just go to a trustworthy shop. This shouldn't surprise anyone. The manufacturer has to certify that none of the radios built will exceed legal limits, so they are all designed to fall safely inside. If you think that anyone sits and adjusts each radio for max output, for a $40 retail product, you're dreaming, even if it's made in Pakistan. On the high end, you MIGHT get this, but I rather doubt it. Once you adjust anything internally, you've violated the certification. These days, I'm not sure where the regs fall, but if you can have a radio repaired legally, then it would seem reasonable that the same shop could adjust it to as close as possible to the legal limits, legally.. But as others have said, you'll never notice the difference. It really takes major improvements to make minor differences. The antenna and feedline is the cheap and (sort of) easy place to make these differences, and it's completely legal. -- KC6ETE Dave's Engineering Page, www.dvanhorn.org Microcontroller Consultant, specializing in Atmel AVR |
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:28:22 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote: On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:02:55 -0400, Alex wrote: I just purchased a Cobra 19 DX III and a 36" base loaded magnet mount antenna. So far I'm picking up pretty good, and transmitting well also. I don't think I'm getting out there as far as i can. Most likely this Friday I will be purchasing a Wilson 1000 Magnet Mount to replace the antenna I have now. Is that going to get me out there a little more (the wilson 1000) No modifications have been made to this radio and have not been able to find any either. I purchased it brand new at a Pilot Truckstop, and am sure it is only putting out 4 watts (fcc required). Will the Wilson make me receive further or transmit further or both, or neither? I'm new and feel it all has to do with how much your getting out ( 4 watts doesn't seem to good ) All domestic CB radios are rated at 4 watts. Unless you are running an amplifier, no one radio will significantly "put out" any better than another. What you use for an antenna, though, is a different story. The antenna will make a much bigger difference in signal than the radio. Generally speaking, the longer the antenna, the better it performs. The largest CB mobile antenna, is a 9' whip. If mounted in the center of a the vehicle, there isn't much that can touch it. Maybe I don't need a new radio, maybe the wilson 1000 will do what I want it to do. I get so sick of losing communication once I'm not close to truckers anymore. What do I need to do? I want to make sure i am getting out as far as possible. My other dilemma: I've been looking here http://www.wilsonantennas.com/cobracb.shtml at some of the radios and the three that have caught my eye a Cobra 29 LTD Night Watch Classic Cobra 25 LTD Classic Cobra 148 GTL Classic These are fairly nice radios, although there are continual rumors of diminished quality due to their place of manufacture. A better alternative would be the Uniden line of radios. My favorite is the Grant. The site also offers two tuning options before shipping. Which one should I go for? Seems like the Mega Tune. One more question below as well. The tuning options a The Mega Tune 29.99 Our Mega Tune is designed to provide you with loud booming audio while still maintaining a clean and clear signal. If you looking to sound raspy or bleed over many channels this defiantly isn't the modification for you. Our techs have worked very hard to perfect this modification. The mega tune will not void any factory warranties, it will not damage your radio and it will not make your radio run warmer than normal. We also do not remove or disable any part of the AMC or ALC circuit. We do upgrade various parts of the audio circuit with higher wattage or better quality parts. We also do a few other modifications that make the radios wave form, when viewed on an oscilloscope more linear. This means of course you will sound as loud as possible while still maintaining maximum clarity. If you are looking for maximum performance from your radio we recommend you have us perform this modification. We also completely warranty all work performed by our service department. The mega tune will also increase your peak power. Dual final radios after being mega tuned typically put out over 40 watts and single final radios typically put out over 30 watts. The True Tune 10.00 Our True Tune is like a basic peak and tune. When you receive your radio that have been True Tuned by Premiere Electronics you can rest assured that your radio is operating at it's maximum efficiency. We go through your radio and re-align the transmitter section. The reason this is necessary is because from the factory most radios just aren't working at their best. The factories don't have the time to sit down with every radio and precisely tune it. They generally get it in the ball park, but if you are interested in performance, you need the true tune. Every modification we perform is backed up with our unbeatable warranty! Like always, none of our work will void any factory warranties. Run, don't walk away from peak jobs. They do nothing more than remove your hard earned money and put it into someone else's hands. All that is usually involved is peaking the power output for maximum, and removing or reducing the affects of the modulation limiter. I won't go into the math here but in order to see even 1 "S" (signal) unit increase on another guy's meter, your radio would have to put out 4 times as much power as it did stock. It is VERY difficult to get 16 watts of dead key power from a 4 watt CB. It cannot be done by alignment alone. By the time someone "redesigns" the transmitter and replaces the parts necessary to get up to 16 watts, you are left with a radio that may very well be less reliable, or may have a dirty or unstable transmitter. If you truly want to get a boost in output power, you are better off with an amplifier. Yes, an amplifier is illegal as heck, but so is a peak job. Last question: The one that bugs me. I purchased a SWR Meter from Radio shack. It was the cheapest one they had and I am on a budget here, because some they had were way to expensive. The one I got was http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...ct%5Fid=21-534 I took it back because nothing seemed to make much difference, or I wasn't operating it right, seemed to always fall in the red. The antenna I have the only way to adjust is to move antenna up and down. Maybe I wasn't in a good location. I finally got it to 2.3, and just left it. My question is was I operating it right to finally get a 2.3 or is that just a cheap ass SWR Meter? That meter should do the job. How were you using it? To check SWR, you need to set it to the "CAL" position. Key the mike on your radio and adjust the calibrate knob on the meter to the red cal line at the right of the scale. Then switch to SWR and read the reflected power on the SWR scale. A good performing antenna will have an SWR less than 2:1 (1.5:1 preferable) Hope that helps... Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj I just don't know how to thank you. You answered my questions perfectly. Maybe for now I'll just keep the Cobra and get that antenna Friday and see the differences. I'll go back and purchase a SWR meter as well. My uncle that i rarely talk to is really big into ham radios and cb's. I bet he has a SWR meter, and I'm just gonna call him and see if I can borrow it. |
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:34:23 GMT, sideband wrote:
Twistedhed wrote: You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic. Twist: Actually, there is a correlation. If two radios are set up in a "fixed" location, each, and one transmits a carrier, there will be a reading on the "s" meter of the receiving radio. Assuming the two radios are far enough apart so that the transmitted signal does not register above, say, s5 on the receiver, it is possible to get a relative power reading from the transmitting radio. Now if the transmitting radio increases power fourfold, say from 4 watts to 16 watts, the receiving radio should now show s6 on its meter. This of course assumes that the receiving radio's ALC is tuned properly and that the s-meter is calibrated properly. In a properly calibrated receiver, a 3db increase in received signal strength should show about 1/2 of an S unit. Doubling the power output is the equivalent a 3db increase. It's a moot point, but output power does indeed have something to do with "s" units, to the receiving radio. There isn't a direct correlation, and most CB receivers probably aren't calibrated properly, but there is a correlation, nonetheless. To the original poster: as for the antenna advice, a Wilson 1000 is a decent antenna, and will do fine. You will notice increased receive and transmit range while still remaining legal. Hope this helps. -SSB Thanks so much. With all the trolls in here I wasn't sure I would get a decent reply. thanks again. |
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:25:28 GMT, Legal Radio
wrote: Alex wrote in : I just purchased a Cobra 19 DX III and a 36" base loaded magnet mount antenna. So far I'm picking up pretty good, and transmitting well also. I don't think I'm getting out there as far as i can. How far are you transmitting? On a clear channel, or busy one? If I am not mistaken I am getting maybe 3- 4 miles at times on busy and clear channels, but again i could be mistaken Most likely this Friday I will be purchasing a Wilson 1000 Magnet Mount to replace the antenna I have now. Is that going to get me out there a little more (the wilson 1000) No modifications have been made to this radio and have not been able to find any either. I purchased it brand new at a Pilot Truckstop, and am sure it is only putting out 4 watts (fcc required). Will the Wilson make me receive further or transmit further or both, or neither? I'm new and feel it all has to do with how much your getting out ( 4 watts doesn't seem to good ) 4 watts is actually a great deal of power. The first mistake a newcomer makes is believing power determines range. Yes, I did think that. I thought damn to actually get a good radio I'm gonna have to be illegal. Now I think otherwise. The Wilson antenna will increase both your transmit and receive range. Thats what i was hoping for. Maybe I don't need a new radio, maybe the wilson 1000 will do what I want it to do. I get so sick of losing communication once I'm not close to truckers anymore. What do I need to do? I want to make sure i am getting out as far as possible. Is your radio tuned to your antenna? Again a newcomer mistake... not adjusting the SWR of your system. Just dropping a radio and antenna into a vehicle and operating is not all that is required. You must make sure the antenna/radio/vehicle combination are matched up with one another. You can search on the web for how to adjust SWR. The best i could get it. I finally got it to 2.3, but gonna recheck it when I get my Wilson 1000 Also, antenna location is important. Placing the antenna right in the middle of the roof of your vehicle is the optimum place to mount an antenna. Especially if it is a car. To make it simple.... the metal in your vehicle will act as a "guide" for radio waves. Wherever the most metal is is the direction the radio waves will be directed. The center of the vehivle will direct your signal equlally in all directions. Placing an antenna, say on the roof of a pickup truck will actully direct the signal BEHIND the vehicle, since you have the whole bed of the vehicle to guide the signal. Mounting your antenna, say on the driver's side mirror of a car will actually direct the signal to the left, side and rear of the vehicle, while sending a diminished signal to the front and left. Hope that makes sense. My other dilemma: I've been looking here http://www.wilsonantennas.com/cobracb.shtml at some of the radios and the three that have caught my eye a Cobra 29 LTD Night Watch Classic Cobra 25 LTD Classic Cobra 148 GTL Classic To be honest.... any and all radios will perform for the most party, the same. They differ in "bells and whistles" only. I had one of the first generation Cobry 19 Plus radios.... best sounding radio I ever had... perhaps the newer generations are similar. The site also offers two tuning options before shipping. Which one should I go for? Seems like the Mega Tune. One more question below as well. The tuning options a The Mega Tune 29.99 .... The True Tune 10.00 .... If you want to stay legal, stay away from this stuff. The only legal way to operate a radio is out of the box. I have yet to see a peak and tune that doesn't sound awful, or bleed over. To be honest, most radios ARE undertuned. You CAN get set up to run at the full legal 4 watts, and not exceed modulation limits. Just go to a trustworthy shop. Last question: The one that bugs me. I purchased a SWR Meter from Radio shack. It was the cheapest one they had and I am on a budget here, because some they had were way to expensive. The one I got was http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...&product%5Fid= 21-534 I took it back because nothing seemed to make much difference, or I wasn't operating it right, seemed to always fall in the red. The antenna I have the only way to adjust is to move antenna up and down. Maybe I wasn't in a good location. I finally got it to 2.3, and just left it. My question is was I operating it right to finally get a 2.3 or is that just a cheap ass SWR Meter? In the red is VERY BAD.... A factor in your range for sure. 2.3 is not too bad... you want an SWR under 3. See my above on antenna location. I figure you have your antanna tuned as good as it can be. Your SWR meter was working properly. All it does is tells you the truth. Some vehicle/antanna combinations don't agree with one another. I really hope someone has the time to answer and help out a newbie as I am very interested in Cb's since i finally broke down and got me one. I just want to be able to transmit and receive as far as possible without breaking the law to bad. Not ready for a amplifier or anything like that. Good deal.... best way to be. Hope I helped. |
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 08:02:55 -0400, Alex
wrote in : I just purchased a Cobra 19 DX III and a 36" base loaded magnet mount antenna. So far I'm picking up pretty good, and transmitting well also. I don't think I'm getting out there as far as i can. Most likely this Friday I will be purchasing a Wilson 1000 Magnet Mount to replace the antenna I have now. Is that going to get me out there a little more (the wilson 1000) No modifications have been made to this radio and have not been able to find any either. I purchased it brand new at a Pilot Truckstop, and am sure it is only putting out 4 watts (fcc required). Will the Wilson make me receive further or transmit further or both, or neither? I'm new and feel it all has to do with how much your getting out ( 4 watts doesn't seem to good ) Maybe I don't need a new radio, maybe the wilson 1000 will do what I want it to do. I get so sick of losing communication once I'm not close to truckers anymore. What do I need to do? I want to make sure i am getting out as far as possible. The most important part of any radio system is NOT the radio -- it's the antenna. It's the antenna that converts signals to and from the ether. If your antenna sucks, so will your communication REGARDLESS of what kind of radio you have. That being said..... The best mobile CB antenna you can buy is the 102" whip (it's also one of the cheapest antennas). Shorter antennas are a compromise between length vs. performance. The longer the better. And if you want your antenna to do the job it's capable of doing you have to mount it properly. Generally, the higher you mount it on your vehicle the better, but it's much more important that your mount is well grounded. Mag-mounts are mediocre at best. No-Ground-Plane (NGP) antennas are worse, and thru-glass antennas are junk. My other dilemma: I've been looking here http://www.wilsonantennas.com/cobracb.shtml at some of the radios and the three that have caught my eye a Cobra 29 LTD Night Watch Classic Cobra 25 LTD Classic Cobra 148 GTL Classic There are two things you can do to make even a cheap radio talk much better: Get an external speaker and a better microphone. The site also offers two tuning options before shipping. Which one should I go for? Seems like the Mega Tune. One more question below as well. The tuning options a snip Like Dave said, avoid the peak jobs. Especially one's where they claim to get 30 watts out of your radio and not void the warranty -- any warranty is voided when your radio is modified to exceed the legal limit of 4 watts (which translates to 16 watts peak/PEP). Most of the shops that offer peak-&-tune jobs are chop-shops that will tell you anything you want to hear just to get your money. And yes, some of their claims are flat-out lies, including the text you quoted in your post. (The work is illegal, so it shouldn't come as a shock to find out that their advertising is also illegal.) The best thing you can do to improve your talk-power is to use a quality mic. You can improve it even more with an audio compressor, and don't exceed about 30% compression. Last question: The one that bugs me. I purchased a SWR Meter from Radio shack. It was the cheapest one they had and I am on a budget here, because some they had were way to expensive. The one I got was http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...ct%5Fid=21-534 I took it back because nothing seemed to make much difference, or I wasn't operating it right, seemed to always fall in the red. The antenna I have the only way to adjust is to move antenna up and down. Maybe I wasn't in a good location. I finally got it to 2.3, and just left it. My question is was I operating it right to finally get a 2.3 or is that just a cheap ass SWR Meter? The meter probably works ok, and your location shouldn't make much difference (unless you are parked inside a steel shed). It's more likely that you have something wrong with your antenna and/or coax. The antenna could be poorly mounted, the coax could be old (don't use foam coax!), the connectors could be bad, etc, etc. My first guess is that mag-mount antenna you are using is junk. I really hope someone has the time to answer and help out a newbie as I am very interested in Cb's since i finally broke down and got me one. I just want to be able to transmit and receive as far as possible without breaking the law to bad. Not ready for a amplifier or anything like that. Amps are not only illegal, they are expensive. The laws of physics dictates that you need 4 times the power to double your range. That means you need an amp capable of 16 watts AM. The problem here is that most amps are rated for peak watts (PEP), which means you need 4 times -again- as much power; i.e, a 64 watt amp. THAT's how much it takes to double your range, but -only- during transmit, NOT receive (and that's assuming you have an IDEAL antenna operating under IDEAL conditions). Ok, so you get a 64 watt amp, and after a while you want even -more- range. To double your range again you would need an amp capable of 256 watts. Double it again and you need over 1 Kilowatt! By the time you reach that point you are in it for the big bucks -- to run that kind of power you need two or three heavy-duty alternators (with all the pulleys and other hardware), battery cables thicker than your thumb, high-quality coax, an antenna capable of that much power, ....$$$$$ And here's the ass-kicker: if your range was 1 mile without the amp, you have only increased your range to 8 miles! On the other hand, a better antenna can do the same job or better for -both- transmit and receive. It's also much cheaper. And it's legal. I seem to like the site I am planning on purchasing from unless someone out here tells me there is no need for another radio because the Wilson 1000 will do what i want. I guess the reason i also like them is that they will tune and get everything running just right before they ship it. I know that wasn't done to the one I have now. To get everything running right you need to install everything properly. They can't do that through the mail. Go to the library, find a book on CB or ham radio and read it. That's the best way to learn how to do things right the first time, and not pad the pockets of sham artists with your hard-earned money. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:13:05 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote: The most important part of any radio system is NOT the radio -- it's the antenna. It's the antenna that converts signals to and from the ether. If your antenna sucks, so will your communication REGARDLESS of what kind of radio you have. That being said..... The best mobile CB antenna you can buy is the 102" whip (it's also one of the cheapest antennas). Shorter antennas are a compromise between length vs. performance. The longer the better. Do you have a link to a trusted website that sells this 102" whip. And if you want your antenna to do the job it's capable of doing you have to mount it properly. Generally, the higher you mount it on your vehicle the better, but it's much more important that your mount is well grounded. Mag-mounts are mediocre at best. No-Ground-Plane (NGP) antennas are worse, and thru-glass antennas are junk. I would also like to know where to purchase a Ground Plane. likely that you have something wrong with your antenna and/or coax. The antenna could be poorly mounted, the coax could be old (don't use foam coax!), the connectors could be bad, etc, etc. My first guess is that mag-mount antenna you are using is junk. Probably so, I purchased it for 20 bucks at a pilot truckstop. the guy said it was a good antenna. It's 36" base loaded coil antenna I'm not having much trouble at all receiving. I receive all kinds of stuff, but not always able to talk back to the people I hear. Its the transmitting, maybe I am just want more than any cb antenna can offer. How far ( guesstimate ) if everything was just right would this 102" be able to transmit. Please don't tell me the Wilson 1000 isn't good. I've heard to many good things about it from about 30 different people, owners of the antenna. |
Alex wrote:
Please don't tell me the Wilson 1000 isn't good. I've heard to many good things about it from about 30 different people, owners of the antenna. It's a good antenna, but it's also a compromise for the 102" whip since the whip is so much longer. I have both the Wilson 1000 and the 102" and the problem I have with the whip is the clearance under trees and such. It has the nickname "tree pruner", but it really can't be beat for performance. They're both good antenna's. |
You didn't say the brand of the antenna or where it is mounted. The antenna
is the most important part of the whole system. You want an SWR of 1.5:1 or lower. One common mistake is to put something under a mag mount antenna to protect the paint. Don't do it. You'll never get a good SWR reading. Also, unless it is a shunt loaded antenna like the Wilsons, you want the loading coil above the roof. You'll be happy with the Wilson and if you can mount it, get the trunk mount. They are harder to steal and give a better ground. The radio you have should do just fine, once you get your antena problems worked out. As for the peak and tune deal, there are many opinions and preferences. Firstly, the radio is designed around a 4 watt output. It is adjusted not only to meet the 4 watt legal limit but also to minimize harmonics. Just leave it alone and definitely don't have parts changed. The Mega-tune didn't sound too bad til I got to the parts changing part. I usually tweak the modulation up just a hair but never disable the limiter. Invest in a good power mic like an Astatic, Turner, or even a Cobra CA-75. This will improve your audio tremendously. If you want to talk farther, look for a radio with upper and lower sideband. I won't go into a big explanation but if you want to know about AM and SSB, do some internet searching. There's alot more to it than can be explained here. Also check out http://www.1stopelectronics.com . There is a forum there that you can read through and ask questions. There are some people who do some crazy things with radios but also alot of people with some good advice on good basic radios. Chris "Alex" wrote in message ... | I just purchased a Cobra 19 DX III and a 36" base loaded magnet mount | antenna. So far I'm picking up pretty good, and transmitting well | also. I don't think I'm getting out there as far as i can. Most likely | this Friday I will be purchasing a Wilson 1000 Magnet Mount to replace | the antenna I have now. Is that going to get me out there a little | more (the wilson 1000) No modifications have been made to this radio | and have not been able to find any either. I purchased it brand new at | a Pilot Truckstop, and am sure it is only putting out 4 watts (fcc | required). Will the Wilson make me receive further or transmit further | or both, or neither? I'm new and feel it all has to do with how much | your getting out ( 4 watts doesn't seem to good ) | | Maybe I don't need a new radio, maybe the wilson 1000 will do what I | want it to do. I get so sick of losing communication once I'm not | close to truckers anymore. What do I need to do? I want to make sure i | am getting out as far as possible. | | My other dilemma: | | I've been looking here http://www.wilsonantennas.com/cobracb.shtml at | some of the radios and the three that have caught my eye a | | Cobra 29 LTD Night Watch Classic | | Cobra 25 LTD Classic | | Cobra 148 GTL Classic | | The site also offers two tuning options before shipping. Which one | should I go for? Seems like the Mega Tune. One more question below as | well. The tuning options a | | The Mega Tune 29.99 | | Our Mega Tune is designed to provide you with loud booming audio while | still maintaining a clean and clear signal. If you looking to sound | raspy or bleed over many channels this defiantly isn't the | modification for you. Our techs have worked very hard to perfect this | modification. The mega tune will not void any factory warranties, it | will not damage your radio and it will not make your radio run warmer | than normal. We also do not remove or disable any part of the AMC or | ALC circuit. We do upgrade various parts of the audio circuit with | higher wattage or better quality parts. We also do a few other | modifications that make the radios wave form, when viewed on an | oscilloscope more linear. This means of course you will sound as loud | as possible while still maintaining maximum clarity. If you are | looking for maximum performance from your radio we recommend you have | us perform this modification. We also completely warranty all work | performed by our service department. The mega tune will also increase | your peak power. Dual final radios after being mega tuned typically | put out over 40 watts and single final radios typically put out over | 30 watts. | | The True Tune 10.00 | | Our True Tune is like a basic peak and tune. When you receive your | radio that have been True Tuned by Premiere Electronics you can rest | assured that your radio is operating at it's maximum efficiency. We go | through your radio and re-align the transmitter section. The reason | this is necessary is because from the factory most radios just aren't | working at their best. The factories don't have the time to sit down | with every radio and precisely tune it. They generally get it in the | ball park, but if you are interested in performance, you need the true | tune. Every modification we perform is backed up with our unbeatable | warranty! Like always, none of our work will void any factory | warranties. | | Last question: The one that bugs me. | | I purchased a SWR Meter from Radio shack. It was the cheapest one they | had and I am on a budget here, because some they had were way to | expensive. The one I got was | http://www.radioshack.com/product.as...ct%5Fid=21-534 | I took it back because nothing seemed to make much difference, or I | wasn't operating it right, seemed to always fall in the red. The | antenna I have the only way to adjust is to move antenna up and down. | Maybe I wasn't in a good location. I finally got it to 2.3, and just | left it. My question is was I operating it right to finally get a 2.3 | or is that just a cheap ass SWR Meter? | | I really hope someone has the time to answer and help out a newbie as | I am very interested in Cb's since i finally broke down and got me | one. I just want to be able to transmit and receive as far as possible | without breaking the law to bad. Not ready for a amplifier or anything | like that. | | I seem to like the site I am planning on purchasing from unless | someone out here tells me there is no need for another radio because | the Wilson 1000 will do what i want. I guess the reason i also like | them is that they will tune and get everything running just right | before they ship it. I know that wasn't done to the one I have now. | | If you want to email me feel free. | | |
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:04:33 -0400, (Twistedhed)
wrote: From: (Dave*Hall) On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:34:23 GMT, sideband wrote: Twistedhed wrote: You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic. Twist: Actually, there is a correlation. He knows that. He just likes to insult me. Nothing was insultive was said to you in the above post. Really? It's funny, when someone even remotely suggests that you're opinions are off the mark, you accuse them of "getting personal", yet you don't seem to apply the same consideration when you refer to advice as "voodoo bull****". But he's way out of his element and way too far into mine if he wants to talk about radio theory. Hehe,,,,that's the davie we're all used to, the one that needs to blow his own horn. If the shoe fits. In all likelihood, I've probably forgotten more about the technical aspects of radio than you know now. It ilustrates your blown self-esteem. I guess if I was as ignorant as your remarks about FCC law that hold roger beeps illegal and dxing as a felony, Deny all you want. DXing IS illegal, and roger beeps were at one time considered in the same vein as other noisemakers as devices to amuse or entertain. I would hurry up and start tooting my own horn about another area of which I have slightly more knowledge than that of the law which governs "your" element. I understand the law well enough. At least I'm not blatantly disregarding it. Nevertheless, tuning a 4 watt radio will not affect any "S" unit on the receiving end. You go on and believe it will and continue to sling your voodoo bull**** that is found in your posts from your claim of making a Davemade "spectrally pure" (something which you are unable to define, but claim you did) to your bull**** about increased S units from a 4 watt radio. Are you THAT literal? Are you disputing my claim because you're hung up on the absolute definition of a "4 watt radio"? The term "4 watt radio" in this context, refers to a stock (legal) CB. If you peak the radio, of course it will no longer put out 4 watts, otherwise why do it? The truth is (a truth that you're either too anally specific about or unable to comprehend) that if you double your transmit power, you increase your signal by 3db. A typical "S" meter is "calibrated" in 6db increments. Therefore, assuming a linear (no not the amplifier) scale, an increase of 6 db (1 "S" unit) is the equivalent of taking a 4 watt carrier, and increasing it to 16 watts. Something that is not possible from a simple "peak job". There's nothing "voodoo" about it. But don't take my word for it. Check out some books on radio propagation, and read it for yourself. Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj |
Absolutely in agreement...
Professor www.telstar-electronics.com All domestic CB radios are rated at 4 watts. Unless you are running an amplifier, no one radio will significantly "put out" any better than another. What you use for an antenna, though, is a different story. The antenna will make a much bigger difference in signal than the radio. Generally speaking, the longer the antenna, the better it performs. The largest CB mobile antenna, is a 9' whip. If mounted in the center of a the vehicle, there isn't much that can touch it. |
(Brian Griffey) wrote
Absolutely in agreement... Professor www.telstar-electronics.com hey poopfessor, how come the 10 meter amp you are selling on your web page has no provision for CW. That part of 10m is always very active, arent you afraid you will lose sales to 10m hams you are marketing it to? |
On 5 Oct 2004 21:13:04 -0700, (I Am Not
George) wrote in : www.telstar-electronics.com ......oh brother. Since when did 10 meters cover 26-29MHz? Your amp is rated 180 watts RMS and 350 watts PEP? Why is this issue so confusing, Brian? If the amp is rated for 350 watts PEP it's rating for AM will be 87.5 watts RMS dead-key. So where do you get your figure of 180 watts RMS? Your confusion seems even worse when comparing AM, FM and "PEP". If the input can take 20 watts PEP it can take 20 watts FM. Even if your power dissipation can't handle a steady 20 watt carrier, it should at least be able to handle more than an unmodulated AM carrier or you couldn't use AM. Haven't you learned the basics YET? And what's "compression"? If you overdrive an amp you get CLIPPING, not compression. It may be hard-clipping (typical of solid-state amps such as your's) or soft-clipping (more characteristic of tube amps), but it's still clipping and it still causes harmonic distortion. On that note, let's look at those distortion figures: -33 dB with 100 watts CW..... aw, Brian, haven't you learned yet that you are supposed to do those tests under modulation? Otherwise they don't mean squat (and those are pretty crappy numbers for an unmodulated carrier!). If you modulate the carrier you can test it at your rated 350 watts. But I don't think you want to do that. In fact..... Did you ever look closely at your input/output graph? Do you know what the word "linear" means? And didn't you notice how the graph starts curving more sharply at about 10 watts input? That's an indication that your amp is clipping; i.e, causing distortion. Now we know why you didn't measure distortion above 100 watts..... because it's a noisy critter!!! Brian, your amp is a cheap hack, it sucks, and you are so ignorant that you even provided the proof. Your amps will always suck until you finally decide to sit down and educate yourself about RF electronics from the beginning; i.e, starting with the basics. Maybe then you can build a decent amp and capitalize on the -legal- amp market instead of trying to prey on hapless CBers that have been misinformed by voodoo-techs like yourself. -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =----- |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 01:00:07 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote: On 5 Oct 2004 21:13:04 -0700, (I Am Not George) wrote in : www.telstar-electronics.com .....oh brother. Since when did 10 meters cover 26-29MHz? Your amp is rated 180 watts RMS and 350 watts PEP? Why is this issue so confusing, Brian? If the amp is rated for 350 watts PEP it's rating for AM will be 87.5 watts RMS dead-key. So where do you get your figure of 180 watts RMS? Your confusion seems even worse when comparing AM, FM and "PEP". If the input can take 20 watts PEP it can take 20 watts FM. Even if your power dissipation can't handle a steady 20 watt carrier, it should at least be able to handle more than an unmodulated AM carrier or you couldn't use AM. Haven't you learned the basics YET? And what's "compression"? If you overdrive an amp you get CLIPPING, not compression. It may be hard-clipping (typical of solid-state amps such as your's) or soft-clipping (more characteristic of tube amps), but it's still clipping and it still causes harmonic distortion. On that note, let's look at those distortion figures: -33 dB with 100 watts CW..... aw, Brian, haven't you learned yet that you are supposed to do those tests under modulation? Otherwise they don't mean squat (and those are pretty crappy numbers for an unmodulated carrier!). If you modulate the carrier you can test it at your rated 350 watts. But I don't think you want to do that. In fact..... Did you ever look closely at your input/output graph? Do you know what the word "linear" means? And didn't you notice how the graph starts curving more sharply at about 10 watts input? That's an indication that your amp is clipping; i.e, causing distortion. Now we know why you didn't measure distortion above 100 watts..... because it's a noisy critter!!! Brian, your amp is a cheap hack, it sucks, and you are so ignorant that you even provided the proof. Your amps will always suck until you finally decide to sit down and educate yourself about RF electronics from the beginning; i.e, startingwiththebasics.Maybethenyoucan build a decent amp and capitalize on the -legal- amp market instead of trying to prey on hapless CBers that have been misinformed by voodoo-techs like yourself. Geeze! Why don't you tell him what you REALLY think. ;-) Actually the term "compression" refers to the condition where a normally linear device, starts to lose that linearity. If the gain of your amp is 10 db, then 5 watts in should give 50 watts out. 10 watts in should give 100 watts out. If 15 watts in only results in 120 watts out, you are now "in compression". You call that clipping, but compression is also a valid term for this condition. We use this term all the time where I work. Granted the amps I work with are not as powerful, they are still governed by the same characteristics. Usually once "compression" is reached the incidents of second order harmonic generation increases disproportionately with the output, usually at a 2:1 ratio. But you are right about one thing. a -33dbc harmonic rating from a single carrier signal is pretty poor. Perhaps a chebychev lowpass filter on the output will fix it up..... Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj |
From: (Dave=A0Hall)
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:04:33 -0400, (Twistedhed) wrote: From: (Dave=A0Hall) On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:34:23 GMT, sideband wrote: Twistedhed wrote: You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic. _ (Twist: Actually, there is a correlation.) He knows that. He just likes to insult me. Nothing insultive was said to you in the above post. Really? It's when someone even remotely suggests you're off the mark of "getting personal you don't seem to apply the same consideration when you refer to advice as "voodoo bull****". I invoke your defense,,,,"If the shoe fits...." But he's way out of his element and way too far into mine if he wants to talk about radio theory. Hehe,,,,that's the davie we're all used to, the one that needs to blow his own horn. If the shoe fits. But it doesn't. You were asked to provide for your unsolicited bolster that you "made the Davemade spectrally pure". Still waiting for you to tell the masses how you did it, but you won't because you never did it, you lied about it, just as you lie about everything in your world In all likelihood, I've probably forgotten more about the technical aspects of radio than know know. =A0 And still manage each and every day to illustrate you know less about proper communication(s) skills and radio law than most cbers in this forum. Hell, than most cbers I know. _ =A0It ilustrates your blown self-esteem. I guess if I was as ignorant as your remarks about FCC law that hold roger beeps illegal and dxing as a felony, Deny all you want. You were the only one here denying roger beeps were legal and that dx wasn't a felonious act, Davie, not I, not anyone else,,,,,only *you*. DXing IS illegal, Never was contested. What was contested and shot full of holes, was your ignorant claim that those who talked dx were by virtue, a felon. You were taught the merits on what you were attempting to discuss (dx and laws pertaining to) was a civil matter, not criminal. You were further instructed to email Phil Kane and ask him, since you were loathe to believe me for personal reasons affecting your emotion that prevent objectivity on your behalf. You obviously ****ed yourself off by placing yourself in position to being forced to be educated once again by a lowly cber. This is reflected upon your subtle cries of deflection "well, it USED to be illegal" concerning the roger beeps, which you still have yet to show or (yawn) provide for. =A0=A0and roger beeps were at one time considered in the same vein as other noisemakers as devices to amuse or entertain. An still doesn't excuse your ignorance..ignorance of the law is no excuse. You said they *were* illegal, not that they *used* to be illegal. Twice you were wrong, twice you can't even bring yourself to admit it, which is why I had to reiterate it and make you repeat yourself and clarify in your own underhanded manner, that you now comprehend dxing is not a felony and roger beeps are not illegal. You're welcome. I would hurry up and start tooting my own horn about another area of which I have slightly more knowledge than that of the law which governs "your" element. I guess you would, but then again you were so blatantly wrong twice in a row, no one blames you for not starting to "toot your own horn about another area" in which you claim knowledge. I understand the law well enough. Making claims that cbers talking dx makes them felons is about as far as one can get from understanding the law, but you go on and continue to espouse your ignorance and continue to believe you were successful in passing it off as intelligence. At least I'm not blatantly disregarding it. You can't even understand, comprehend, or define the law, so there is no way at all you can claim you aren't disregarding it. Since you are blatantly ignorant of the law, you can not comprehend when you blatantly violate it. More for your education today.....regardless of your repeated failed attempts to portray myself as such, I don't blatantly disrespect the dx law, Dither-Davie, I selectively disregard it. But since you are unable to differentiate between civil and criminal, what constitutes each, maintain you are a psychiatrist and doctor of jurisprudence, claim that dxing is a felony, and that one is a criminal without being convicted by a court of law, one could not expect you to comprehend something as simple as the difference between the two adverbs "blatantly" and "selectively" _ Nevertheless, tuning a 4 watt radio will not affect any "S" unit on the receiving end. You go on and believe it will and continue to sling your voodoo bull**** that is found in your posts from your claim of making a Davemade "spectrally pure" (something which you are unable to define, but claim you did) to your bull**** about increased S units from a 4 watt radio. Are you THAT literal? Not at all, you're THAT off-topic and reaching for anything but the topic which was being discussed in the thread to which I replied,,,,, .a 4 watt radio. Are you disputing my claim because you're hung up on the absolute definition of a "4 watt radio"? That was what was being discussed. Go on and reach for something else, now, The term "4 watt radio" in this context, refers to a stock (legal) CB. As was being discussed. If you peak the radio, of course it will no longer put out 4 watts, otherwise why do it? Lowering the deadkey to 3 watts. I said a peak and tune on this radio will not result in a net change (increase of S units) and you began menstruating....again. Peaking and tuning are not synonymous, yet you have voodoo'd them into a merger on many occasion. The truth is (a truth that you're either too anally specific about or unable to comprehend) that if you double your transmit power, you increase your signal by 3db. You are unable to follow the thread, as usual, Davie. The radio in question was a stock radio. I don't care how much peaking you do, you aren't going to raise an S unit on a 4 watt radio,and THAT was the claim I made, regarding the radio being discussed. A typical "S" meter is "calibrated" in 6db increments. Therefore, assuming a linear (no not the amplifier) scale, an increase of 6 db (1 "S" unit) is the equivalent of taking a 4 watt carrier, and increasing it to 16 watts. Something that is not possible from a simple "peak job". And you danced around it until just now. Let's see my comment that has you running all amok....."You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic." Appears you are the one all "anally specific" (to use your term). I guess I SHOULD have been specific when speaking to you, but I wasn't. Here it is again, and this time, it's "anally-specific" and tailored to YOUR anal specifications. See if you can tell the difference, then tell me again how I was too specific the first time I posted it... "You would be best seved putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units ON THIS 4 WATT RADIO WE ARE SPEAKING OF is imbecilic." There's nothing "voodoo" about it. But don't take my word for it. Check out some books on radio propagation, and read it for yourself. Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj Once again, intently satiated am I. |
From: (I=A0Am=A0Not=A0George)
(Brian Griffey) wrote Absolutely in agreement... Professor www.telstar-electronics.com hey poopfessor, how come the 10 meter amp you are selling on your web page has no provision for CW. That part of 10m is always very active, arent you afraid you will lose sales to 10m hams you are marketing it to? Buy one and perhaps he will take pity upon your nose problems. |
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 07:23:40 -0400, Alex
wrote in : On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:13:05 -0700, Frank Gilliland wrote: The most important part of any radio system is NOT the radio -- it's the antenna. It's the antenna that converts signals to and from the ether. If your antenna sucks, so will your communication REGARDLESS of what kind of radio you have. That being said..... The best mobile CB antenna you can buy is the 102" whip (it's also one of the cheapest antennas). Shorter antennas are a compromise between length vs. performance. The longer the better. Do you have a link to a trusted website that sells this 102" whip. I think Radio Shaft still sells them. Just about any truck stop will have them. And if you want your antenna to do the job it's capable of doing you have to mount it properly. Generally, the higher you mount it on your vehicle the better, but it's much more important that your mount is well grounded. Mag-mounts are mediocre at best. No-Ground-Plane (NGP) antennas are worse, and thru-glass antennas are junk. I would also like to know where to purchase a Ground Plane. You should have read a post I wrote a week ago.... The ground plane for a mobile antenna is the vehicle and the ground below the vehicle. Regardless of what antenna you use, you already have a ground plane. What you -need- is an "RF ground" for your antenna mount. The center conductor of the coax goes to the antenna, and the sheild goes to that RF ground. It can be the car body, chassis, bumper, roll-bar, or even a bracket bolted onto any of those parts. But it must be a GOOD connection -- a magnet does -not- make a good ground connection. likely that you have something wrong with your antenna and/or coax. The antenna could be poorly mounted, the coax could be old (don't use foam coax!), the connectors could be bad, etc, etc. My first guess is that mag-mount antenna you are using is junk. Probably so, I purchased it for 20 bucks at a pilot truckstop. the guy said it was a good antenna. It's 36" base loaded coil antenna I'm not having much trouble at all receiving. I receive all kinds of stuff, but not always able to talk back to the people I hear. Its the transmitting, maybe I am just want more than any cb antenna can offer. How far ( guesstimate ) if everything was just right would this 102" be able to transmit. Please don't tell me the Wilson 1000 isn't good. I've heard to many good things about it from about 30 different people, owners of the antenna. Good is relative. The Wilson will work to a given extent. You could do worse, but you could also do better. A cheap 5' fiberglass whip from RS will work just as well as a Wilson 1000, as well as some of the other brand-name, premium-priced antennas on the market. There is nothing magic about antennas, and just because it bears a popular brand name doesn't make it perform any better. On the contrary, I have built a few antennas from scratch and all of them work BETTER than their manufactured equivalents. Like I said before, hit the library and read up on the basics. It will answer most of your questions both now and in the future. |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:19:53 -0400, Dave Hall
wrote in : snip Geeze! Why don't you tell him what you REALLY think. ;-) Actually the term "compression" refers to the condition where a normally linear device, starts to lose that linearity. If the gain of your amp is 10 db, then 5 watts in should give 50 watts out. 10 watts in should give 100 watts out. If 15 watts in only results in 120 watts out, you are now "in compression". You call that clipping, but compression is also a valid term for this condition. We use this term all the time where I work. Granted the amps I work with are not as powerful, they are still governed by the same characteristics. Usually once "compression" is reached the incidents of second order harmonic generation increases disproportionately with the output, usually at a 2:1 ratio. Let's try and clarify a few terms here..... Clipping -- distortion that occurs on the top of a waveform due to the signal exceeding the limitations of the circuit. Limiting -- the result of intentionally preventing a signal from exceeding a given level. This can be done by clipping, automatic gain control, or both. Compression -- a term usually applied to audio conditioning where the amplification of a signal is varied inversely to it's input level. One of the most common types of audio compressor is called "constant volume amplifier". But the problem here is that the term 'compression' has beed adopted by voodoo techs as a euphamism for 'clipping', making it sound as if the distortion-causing effect is not only benign, but sometimes preferred. It is neither. But you are right about one thing. a -33dbc harmonic rating from a single carrier signal is pretty poor. Perhaps a chebychev lowpass filter on the output will fix it up..... That would be nothing more than a kludge. The fault is in the design. The response isn't even close to linear. That may be due to the bias class, the bias regulator, the choice of active device, or just crappy engineering overall. I suspect it's a little of everything. |
YOU GUESS ARE SO SMART, WHAT THE **** YOU DOING ON CB ?
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:19:53 -0400, Dave Hall wrote in : snip Geeze! Why don't you tell him what you REALLY think. ;-) Actually the term "compression" refers to the condition where a normally linear device, starts to lose that linearity. If the gain of your amp is 10 db, then 5 watts in should give 50 watts out. 10 watts in should give 100 watts out. If 15 watts in only results in 120 watts out, you are now "in compression". You call that clipping, but compression is also a valid term for this condition. We use this term all the time where I work. Granted the amps I work with are not as powerful, they are still governed by the same characteristics. Usually once "compression" is reached the incidents of second order harmonic generation increases disproportionately with the output, usually at a 2:1 ratio. Let's try and clarify a few terms here..... Clipping -- distortion that occurs on the top of a waveform due to the signal exceeding the limitations of the circuit. Limiting -- the result of intentionally preventing a signal from exceeding a given level. This can be done by clipping, automatic gain control, or both. Compression -- a term usually applied to audio conditioning where the amplification of a signal is varied inversely to it's input level. One of the most common types of audio compressor is called "constant volume amplifier". But the problem here is that the term 'compression' has beed adopted by voodoo techs as a euphamism for 'clipping', making it sound as if the distortion-causing effect is not only benign, but sometimes preferred. It is neither. But you are right about one thing. a -33dbc harmonic rating from a single carrier signal is pretty poor. Perhaps a chebychev lowpass filter on the output will fix it up..... That would be nothing more than a kludge. The fault is in the design. The response isn't even close to linear. That may be due to the bias class, the bias regulator, the choice of active device, or just crappy engineering overall. I suspect it's a little of everything. |
Hello, Twist
Dave was referring to 'S' units at the other end of the circuit. One 'S' unit is *supposidly* equal to 6 dB. 6 dB is an increase in power of four times. As to peak and tune, I've seen both CBers and hams make the same mistake if they had a meter that could be switched between rf output and plate current (admittedly, I am going back a couple of years here .... make that 3 decades LOL). In both cases, the poor guys simply had the switch in the wrong position and tried to "peak" the unit. They peaked the plate current. In the case of the CB, it was easy to retune and the rig performed just fine; in the case of the ham, the poor final looked like superman grabbed it with a red-hot hand and squeezed. It really looked like fingerprints and a thumb mark on the glass where it got so hot that the atmospheric pressure forced the *very* hot glass inwards :)) 73 from Rochester, NY Jim - top posting so as not to get more confused than I already am LOL (Twistedhed) wrote in message ... N3CVJ wrote: Run, don't walk away from peak jobs. A most certainly biased opinion. Just because YOU hacked up radios as an "independant (sic) contractor" and couldn't peak them properly doesn't mean the rest of the world should discount all the other techs. They do nothing more than remove your hard earned money and put it into someone else's hands. No wonder you couldn't make it as a tech. There are many reasons to "peak" radios. In fact, what *you* term "peak" encompasses virtually any mods or work to a radio, such as removing the cover and aligning or tuning. All that is usually involved is peaking the power output for maximum, and removing or reducing the affects of the modulation limiter. Ahhh,,,well, there you have it, mistakenly believing that all techs "usually" look at peaking a radio in the same incompetent manner as yourself. I won't go into the math here but in order to see even 1 "S" (signal) unit increase on another guy's meter, your radio would have to put out 4 times as much power as it did stock. You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic. It is VERY difficult to get 16 watts of dead key power from a 4 watt CB. If one was getting a 16 watt dead key from a cb, it would be just that,,a 16 watt cb and no longer a 4 watt cb. It cannot be done by alignment alone. By the time someone "redesigns" the transmitter and replaces the parts necessary to get up to 16 watts, you are left with a radio that may very well be less reliable, or may have a dirty or unstable transmitter. And you may be left with a radio that works quite well and exhibits none of the unfavorable qualities (read: glass half empty) of which you choose to focus. If you truly want to get a boost in output power, you are better off with an amplifier. Yes, an amplifier is illegal as heck, but so is a peak job. A tune isn't necessarily illegal, yet you have maintained "peak" and "tune" are synonyms by your past posts regarding the opening of radios. |
"Marty B." wrote:
YOU GUESS ARE SO SMART, WHAT THE **** YOU DOING ON CB ? How can you argue with that? "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:19:53 -0400, Dave Hall wrote in : snip Geeze! Why don't you tell him what you REALLY think. ;-) Actually the term "compression" refers to the condition where a normally linear device, starts to lose that linearity. If the gain of your amp is 10 db, then 5 watts in should give 50 watts out. 10 watts in should give 100 watts out. If 15 watts in only results in 120 watts out, you are now "in compression". You call that clipping, but compression is also a valid term for this condition. We use this term all the time where I work. Granted the amps I work with are not as powerful, they are still governed by the same characteristics. Usually once "compression" is reached the incidents of second order harmonic generation increases disproportionately with the output, usually at a 2:1 ratio. Let's try and clarify a few terms here..... Clipping -- distortion that occurs on the top of a waveform due to the signal exceeding the limitations of the circuit. Limiting -- the result of intentionally preventing a signal from exceeding a given level. This can be done by clipping, automatic gain control, or both. Compression -- a term usually applied to audio conditioning where the amplification of a signal is varied inversely to it's input level. One of the most common types of audio compressor is called "constant volume amplifier". But the problem here is that the term 'compression' has beed adopted by voodoo techs as a euphamism for 'clipping', making it sound as if the distortion-causing effect is not only benign, but sometimes preferred. It is neither. But you are right about one thing. a -33dbc harmonic rating from a single carrier signal is pretty poor. Perhaps a chebychev lowpass filter on the output will fix it up..... That would be nothing more than a kludge. The fault is in the design. The response isn't even close to linear. That may be due to the bias class, the bias regulator, the choice of active device, or just crappy engineering overall. I suspect it's a little of everything. |
Hi Jim. Any interest in attending the rrcb bonanza next year?
-YOU- gotta be there we're, counting on ya! g (Jim Hampton) wrote: Hello, Twist Dave was referring to 'S' units at the other end of the circuit. One 'S' unit is *supposidly* equal to 6 dB. 6 dB is an increase in power of four times. |
itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge wrote:
Steveo wrote in news:20041006190307.240 : Hi Jim. Any interest in attending the rrcb bonanza next year? -YOU- gotta be there we're, counting on ya! g Will you have men in draG there for markie beck How do you look in a too too? |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:26:31 GMT, "Marty B."
wrote in : YOU GUESS ARE SO SMART, WHAT THE **** YOU DOING ON CB ? Sorry, I didn't know CB was reserved for illiterate morons. |
"Steveo" wrote in message ... itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge wrote: Steveo wrote in news:20041006190307.240 : Hi Jim. Any interest in attending the rrcb bonanza next year? -YOU- gotta be there we're, counting on ya! g Will you have men in draG there for markie beck How do you look in a too too? Who cares! I say invite him, see if he spouts his crap to our faces, he won't......... LMAO!!! Landshark -- The world is good-natured to people who are good natured. |
"Landshark" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message ... itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge wrote: Steveo wrote in news:20041006190307.240 : Hi Jim. Any interest in attending the rrcb bonanza next year? -YOU- gotta be there we're, counting on ya! g Will you have men in draG there for markie beck How do you look in a too too? Who cares! I say invite him, see if he spouts his crap to our faces, he won't......... LMAO!!! Landshark He's invited! This wing ding is open to anyone that posts here. -- F the CC - Steve Earle |
notiamnotgeorge wrote:
Steveo wrote in news:20041006195103.820 : itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge wrote: Steveo wrote in news:20041006190307.240 : Hi Jim. Any interest in attending the rrcb bonanza next year? -YOU- gotta be there we're, counting on ya! g Will you have men in draG there for markie beck How do you look in a too too? wouldnt you like to know Big Boy ... LOL Is that the only way I get invited to the party?? Nope, and please don't dress that way if you can help it. :) You are assured safe passage and are welcomed as long as you're not there to start trouble. You'd have fun. -- F the CC - Steve Earle |
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:03:41 -0400, (Twistedhed)
wrote: I invoke your defense,,,,"If the shoe fits...." You can't even be original. But it doesn't. You were asked to provide for your unsolicited bolster that you "made the Davemade spectrally pure". Still waiting for you to tell the masses how you did it, but you won't because you never did it, you lied about it, just as you lie about everything in your world I provided the information. I'm sorry if the information was too general for you. Technical details would 've gone over your head. And for the record, I never said that the amp was "spectrally pure". I stated that the amp was now within FCC emissions specs for use in the H.F. Ham radio bands. DXing IS illegal, Never was contested. What was contested and shot full of holes, was your ignorant claim that those who talked dx were by virtue, a felon. They are criminal. As soon as you get it through you thick head that someone who engages in breaking a law, whether you want to call it criminal or civil, especially one which provides jail time, is considered a criminal. Whether they are caught or ultimately convicted is only a smoke screen for those who try to justify their behavior. An still doesn't excuse your ignorance..ignorance of the law is no excuse. You said they *were* illegal, not that they *used* to be illegal. I have seen no revised documentation which clarifies that a roger beep is now an acceptable device. I would hurry up and start tooting my own horn about another area of which I have slightly more knowledge than that of the law which governs "your" element. I guess you would, but then again you were so blatantly wrong twice in a row, no one blames you for not starting to "toot your own horn about another area" in which you claim knowledge. Do you always answer yourself? You do realize that you're commenting on your own statement. Please try to pay attention..... Nevertheless, tuning a 4 watt radio will not affect any "S" unit on the receiving end. You go on and believe it will and continue to sling your voodoo bull**** that is found in your posts from your claim of making a Davemade "spectrally pure" (something which you are unable to define, but claim you did) to your bull**** about increased S units from a 4 watt radio. You are completely off the rails. Why else would you tune a radio's transmitter, other than to either increase or decrease the power? If you do, then you will affect your signal on the receive end. Are you THAT literal? Not at all, you're THAT off-topic and reaching for anything but the topic which was being discussed in the thread to which I replied,,,,, .a 4 watt radio. No, the topic was whether or not a peak job was worth the money. Are you disputing my claim because you're hung up on the absolute definition of a "4 watt radio"? See above. The term "4 watt radio" in this context, refers to a stock (legal) CB. As was being discussed. If you peak the radio, of course it will no longer put out 4 watts, otherwise why do it? Lowering the deadkey to 3 watts. Ok, let's run with that. Are you saying that lowering the power to 3 watts will not have any difference on your signal? I said a peak and tune on this radio will not result in a net change (increase of S units) and you began menstruating....again. It certainly will. People are duped into believing that a peak job will make them "put out better". How else do you put out a better signal without increasing the power? My point, of course, is that the amount of power increase available from a peak job, is not significant enough to make it worth what "screwdriver technicians" charge. Peaking and tuning are not synonymous, yet you have voodoo'd them into a merger on many occasion. Why else would you "tune" a radio if not to alter the power output? Please stop grasping at straws and enjoy the shoe leather you're munching on. A typical "S" meter is "calibrated" in 6db increments. Therefore, assuming a linear (no not the amplifier) scale, an increase of 6 db (1 "S" unit) is the equivalent of taking a 4 watt carrier, and increasing it to 16 watts. Something that is not possible from a simple "peak job". And you danced around it until just now. Let's see my comment that has you running all amok....."You would be best served putting your voodoo radio bull**** to rest. Assuming a peak and tune job is somehow related to increased "S" units is imbecilic." Why else would you peak a radio? Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj Once again, intently satiated am I. Sedated more likely...... |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:47:29 -0700, Frank Gilliland
wrote: On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:19:53 -0400, Dave Hall wrote in : snip Geeze! Why don't you tell him what you REALLY think. ;-) Actually the term "compression" refers to the condition where a normally linear device, starts to lose that linearity. If the gain of your amp is 10 db, then 5 watts in should give 50 watts out. 10 watts in should give 100 watts out. If 15 watts in only results in 120 watts out, you are now "in compression". You call that clipping, but compression is also a valid term for this condition. We use this term all the time where I work. Granted the amps I work with are not as powerful, they are still governed by the same characteristics. Usually once "compression" is reached the incidents of second order harmonic generation increases disproportionately with the output, usually at a 2:1 ratio. Let's try and clarify a few terms here..... Clipping -- distortion that occurs on the top of a waveform due to the signal exceeding the limitations of the circuit. No argument. Limiting -- the result of intentionally preventing a signal from exceeding a given level. This can be done by clipping, automatic gain control, or both. Also correct. Compression -- a term usually applied to audio conditioning where the amplification of a signal is varied inversely to it's input level. One of the most common types of audio compressor is called "constant volume amplifier". That is but one type of compression. For a more detailed discussion of RF amplifier compression, please refer to the following related link: http://cp.literature.agilent.com/lit...5965-7710E.pdf Generally speaking, amplifier compression occurs when the input:output power ratio no longer increases db for db. But the problem here is that the term 'compression' has been adopted by voodoo techs as a euphamism for 'clipping', making it sound as if the distortion-causing effect is not only benign, but sometimes preferred. It is neither. After reading the link, you might want to revise your definition. There are a bunch of very talented engineers here who would be a bit insulted to find out that you refer to them as "voodoo techs". But you are right about one thing. a -33dbc harmonic rating from a single carrier signal is pretty poor. Perhaps a chebychev lowpass filter on the output will fix it up..... That would be nothing more than a kludge. The fault is in the design. The response isn't even close to linear. That may be due to the bias class, the bias regulator, the choice of active device, or just crappy engineering overall. I suspect it's a little of everything. Usually, if it is a push-pull design, device matching plays an important part. Bias is also important, as is impedance matching. But even a "good" design should have a follow-up low pass filter to minimize any harmonic content. Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj |
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 21:26:31 GMT, "Marty B."
wrote: YOU GUESS ARE SO SMART, WHAT THE **** YOU DOING ON CB ? So in other words, only dummies should use CB? I'm sure there are a few people who would take offense to (and some who would resemble) that comment. Dave "Sandbagger" http://home.ptd.net/~n3cvj |
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