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If a CB radio is legal on wattage out, he doesn't have to clean up that
image on any of older TV models. Older TV models are horrific in picking up 'legal transmissions' The TV/computer owner wil need to put some filters inline to take care of the problem if the CB is legal. Frank Gilliland wrote: On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:43:03 -0400, "BobC" wrote in : snip Even lowly cb'ers do have some rights. CBers to not have the right to operate illegally. OTOH, the neighbors -do- have the right to the peaceful enjoyment of their homes. That's why almost all residential areas are subject to laws prohibiting noise pollution and other nuisances. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
If a CB radio is legal on wattage out, he doesn't have to clean up that
image on any of older TV models. Older TV models are horrific in picking up 'legal transmissions' The TV/computer owner wil need to put some filters inline to take care of the problem if the CB is legal. Frank Gilliland wrote: On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:43:03 -0400, "BobC" wrote in : snip Even lowly cb'ers do have some rights. CBers to not have the right to operate illegally. OTOH, the neighbors -do- have the right to the peaceful enjoyment of their homes. That's why almost all residential areas are subject to laws prohibiting noise pollution and other nuisances. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:50:33 -0400, "BobC" wrote in : Well Jade, That's pretty much the drill. You have no proof that this guy is running anything illegal. The fact that he's transmitting enough power to drive a pair of speakers at a distance is a pretty good indication that it's a bit more than 4 watts. Frank, you'll need to do beter than that. I've got a stock cobra in my pickup that can do this to telephones from 2 driveways away. Stop to consider the circuitry in front of the speakers. A high gain audio amp of dubious quality, connected to a few feet of unshielded wire? Easily overloaded DAC's on a sound card? Little or no rf filtering on the hi level outputs / inputs to the sound card? Cheap, hi gain front ends on a scanner? (My assumption is he uses a scanner) Gimme a break. _________________ You might keep saying it, but that doesn't make it true. You have the obligation to ensure your consumer electronics are not at fault. Only if the station is operating legally. It's the other way around chief. You make sure the consumer devices are protected first. Those devices must accept interference from licensed transmitters. And yes, even cb's are licensed to transmit even though an operator's license is not required. __________________ That means adding whatever filtering is needed on your end. If adding the proper filtering doesn't fix things, then you might have an issue. The Fed's already know all about cheap, unfiltered consumer gear. When you call them, they'll make you aware of it. The Feds also know about cheap, unfiltered, Class-C "linears". Which is all well and good but until you've satisfied the feds that your consumer grade stuff is properly filtered, they aren't going to bother sending anyone out to check. _________________ Your Dell & speakers are not filtered for this interference. This goes for your scanner, your toaster and whatever else. Get your act together and then go after whomever. Before you can even get someone else involved, they're going to ask if you applied the correct filtering first. If not, they'll advise you to do so and call them back if it doesn't work. Those are your rights. Now stop whining & do your part. Quit making excuses for irresponsible CBers. Right after holier than thou, know-it-all's step down from their hi horses & get a grip on reality. ____________________ So far, I've not read from Jade anything that remotely suggests he or she has a serious interference complaint involving another radio service. I read "fire service" radio and I invited Jade to tell me what he/she considers a fire service radio. Scanners don't count. I haven't seen any real proof that the neighbor is running an illegal station. Jade has not indicated other neighbors are complaining of similar events. Such complaints might induce me to think the cb'er is running power. Unless or until someone brings more convincing proof of the allegations, I'm going with the notion it's a singular complaint due the quality of the consumer electronics invloved. You'll excuse me if I happen to believe in "reasonable doubt" & "due process" instead of conjecture & unfounded finger pointing. bc |
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:24:49 -0400, "BobC" wrote:
You'll excuse me if I happen to believe in "reasonable doubt" & "due process" instead of conjecture & unfounded finger pointing. Hehe. Great post. Vinnie S. |
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:24:49 -0400, "BobC" wrote in : Ok, let's consider the circuitry in front of the speakers: Assuming the speakers do not have their own power amps, the amps are enclosed in a fully (or almost fully) shielded case. The only unshielded lines into the case are pairs; i.e, only common mode currents can enter the case. Excluding the power line (filtered by the power supply) and the phone line (filtered by the modem transformer), the only means of entry is through the speaker wires connected to a very low impedance power amp. And assuming the power amp uses feedback (and that rectification of the RF occurs at the power amp stage), it would take just as much power to distort the amps' intended output (and therefore cause audio feedback of the demodulated RF) as it would to drive the speakers directly. That also assumes an efficient antenna -- resonant lengths of speaker wire. Now if the speakers are amplified externally (amp in the speakers), they are more than likely driven by a shielded cable. Regardless, almost all low-level preamps are designed for high common-mode rejection (we're talking 60-90 dB+ at each stage); and since the low impedance of the power amp is no less suseptible to RFI than if the amp was enclosed in the computer case, it would -still- take a considerable amount of RF power on the lines to drive the speakers. This is not just theory but fact -- they are designed this way for the specific purpose of eliminating that annoying AC hum and digital RFI that permeates most houses, -especially- the horrific noise generated by computer monitors and light dimmers. "Overloaded DAC's"? I don't think so, Bob. How do you overload a DAC? YOU will have to do better than THAT. Common mode shmommen mode. In a perfect world your model works. But you're not explaining why I can eat up 2 out of 4 hi end audio cards. And if you're not cognizent of how you eat a DAC's lunch, go read. You may also notice that modems don't always use transformers anymore. Modems are just as susceptible to rf on the lines as anything else. Sound cards have fairly high imp, non-balanced inputs and hi gain. Your model assumes no (-) or (+) supply rail changes from rf. Your model only survives within the puter itself. Add rf on a mic, spkr or phone lead and you have a great receiver. It doesn't need to overload the main audio amp, just a prior stage. The xformers you mentioned have enough cap across the windings to pass rf. The leads you mentioned are not the only ones connected to the puter. There are monitors, scanners, mice, cameras etc. _____________________ Authorization to transmit with a CB is automatically revoked when the station is operating illegally. Shall I cite the code? Not necessary. Just prove that the station is illegal. It wouldn't hurt to have some decent field strength readings. Maybe a witness attesting to the actual use of an amp? _____________________ Which is all well and good but until you've satisfied the feds that your consumer grade stuff is properly filtered, they aren't going to bother sending anyone out to check. They won't send anyone out regardless. They don't care about the CB. But they do suck up to the ham community, and if it turns out that this guy has a license they may indeed take action if they find he is operating illegally (i.e, using power on the CB). Which brings us back to doing the necessary part of filtering before calling. _____________________ So far, I've not read from Jade anything that remotely suggests he or she has a serious interference complaint involving another radio service. I read "fire service" radio and I invited Jade to tell me what he/she considers a fire service radio. Scanners don't count. Actually, they do. If someone is causing interference to a scanner, it's very possible..... nay, -likely-..... that he will also cause interference to an emergency service radio that happens to be in close proximity. This is a problem because while the cops chase the killer with the gun running through the neighborhood, Andy the Amphead keys up and the guy gets away (or worse) because the cops lose comm. Are you trying to present that a "real radios" front end isn't any better than a scanner? I'm sure the folks paying for those $3000 MA/COM's & Motorolas would love to know about that. Even the Kenwood & Icom users. You're also back to calling the guy guilty before you have proof. Reread the part about innocent till proven guilty. ______________________ I haven't seen any real proof that the neighbor is running an illegal station. Jade has not indicated other neighbors are complaining of similar events. Such complaints might induce me to think the cb'er is running power. Then that would be a good question to ask. So ask it. I believe I already did. _______________________ Unless or until someone brings more convincing proof of the allegations, I'm going with the notion it's a singular complaint due the quality of the consumer electronics invloved. You'll excuse me if I happen to believe in "reasonable doubt" & "due process" instead of conjecture & unfounded finger pointing. bc How about "civic responsibility"? How about Constitutional Law? bc |
"itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge" wrote in message ... Frank Gilliland wrote in : On 25 Apr 2005 19:48:48 -0700, "Cliff" wrote in . com: If a CB radio is legal on wattage out, he doesn't have to clean up that image on any of older TV models. Older TV models are horrific in picking up 'legal transmissions' The TV/computer owner wil need to put some filters inline to take care of the problem if the CB is legal. Televisions have always had problems with CB radios because the second harmonic falls right on channel 2. But that second harmonic is supposed to be supressed (filtered) to a point where it's effect is negligible. A stock, unmodified, untweaked radio will usually not cause interference to a TV unless you mount the antenna right next to the set. The problem is the golden screwdrivers and internet techs who tweak & peak their radios for modulation and/or power without regard to the resulting increase of harmonics. Even if power is kept to the legal limit, the modulation limiter can be modified for overmodulation, and therefore cause a big increase in harmonics. This is why modification of the radio is illegal. And modification of the radio voids your authorization to use it, regardless of the RFI suseptibility of a TV. Now this is the Old Frank that I have come to know and love ... 2 thumbs up Frank!!! Awww! Ain't just the sweetest thing you've ever written? |
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:20:28 -0400, "BobC"
wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:24:49 -0400, "BobC" wrote in : Ok, let's consider the circuitry in front of the speakers: Assuming the speakers do not have their own power amps, the amps are enclosed in a fully (or almost fully) shielded case. The only unshielded lines into the case are pairs; i.e, only common mode currents can enter the case. Excluding the power line (filtered by the power supply) and the phone line (filtered by the modem transformer), the only means of entry is through the speaker wires connected to a very low impedance power amp. And assuming the power amp uses feedback (and that rectification of the RF occurs at the power amp stage), it would take just as much power to distort the amps' intended output (and therefore cause audio feedback of the demodulated RF) as it would to drive the speakers directly. That also assumes an efficient antenna -- resonant lengths of speaker wire. Now if the speakers are amplified externally (amp in the speakers), they are more than likely driven by a shielded cable. Regardless, almost all low-level preamps are designed for high common-mode rejection (we're talking 60-90 dB+ at each stage); and since the low impedance of the power amp is no less suseptible to RFI than if the amp was enclosed in the computer case, it would -still- take a considerable amount of RF power on the lines to drive the speakers. This is not just theory but fact -- they are designed this way for the specific purpose of eliminating that annoying AC hum and digital RFI that permeates most houses, -especially- the horrific noise generated by computer monitors and light dimmers. "Overloaded DAC's"? I don't think so, Bob. How do you overload a DAC? YOU will have to do better than THAT. Common mode shmommen mode. In a perfect world your model works. It's not -my- model, and it works in the real world just fine. If it didn't there would be so much noise coming from the speakers that they would be almost useless. But you're not explaining why I can eat up 2 out of 4 hi end audio cards. I have my suspicions..... And if you're not cognizent of how you eat a DAC's lunch, go read. Read what? A DAC datasheet? Heck, I get those as junk mail every month (and I wish they would quit sending them). Maybe you should learn what a DAC actually does before you start spouting off about subjects you know very little about. DAC stands for "Digital to Analog Converter", and the only way to overload them (aside from blowing them up with too much Vcc) is to push all the inputs to the same logic level, in which case you will not get audio from the output but a steady DC signal. So how is it that you think that you can overload a soundcard's DAC with AM (analog) RF and get demodulated audio from the output? If you can then you got some serious voodoo happening. You may also notice that modems don't always use transformers anymore. Modems are just as susceptible to rf on the lines as anything else. You might have noticed yourself that the modem is usually a seperate and isolated card, that the line inputs always include RFI protection by law (transformer or chokes), that they have excellent common-mode signal rejection, and that the line impedance is quite low when it's off-hook. Any RF on the phone line stops at the modem for the same reason that I explained about the speakers -- because they are designed to reject environmental RF hash. The only way a stray RF signal can hop the phone line, skip past the modem, infiltrate the power supply and drive the sound card, with a demodulation stage happening somewhere in that path, is if the RF has some significant power. Sound cards have fairly high imp, non-balanced inputs and hi gain. Unbalanced lines use shielded cables. Your model assumes no (-) or (+) supply rail changes from rf. Your criticizm assumes no power supply regulation, no bypass caps on the chips, no capacitance between power traces and the ground plane layer, no inductive losses from the straight traces on the bus, etc. IOW, you are reaching. Your model only survives within the puter itself. Add rf on a mic, spkr or phone lead and you have a great receiver. Not even close for the reasons I already explained (and apparently you couldn't understand). Yet I forgot to mention that the only way for the impedance of an RF signal to be low enough to force it's way past the hardware, the line must be both resonant -and- terminate at the computer at a low-impedance node, -and- provide a signal with sufficient strength to defeat the protections and/or output power. That's a pretty tall order for a speaker line -- especially when you realize that most of the time the excess line is wound up and tied, making a pretty good RF choke. It doesn't need to overload the main audio amp, just a prior stage. I didn't say "overload", I said "distort". There is a difference. And while I have no problem with RFI interfering with a stage prior to the output, the most obvious route is the feedback loop which I already addressed. Or weren't you paying attention? The xformers you mentioned have enough cap across the windings to pass rf. No they don't, simply because they either have electrostatic shielding between the layers (somewhat old-fashioned) or use tandem windings on the bobbin (much more common these days, and a whole lot cheaper). But they do have enough -inductance- to choke any RF on the line. The leads you mentioned are not the only ones connected to the puter. There are monitors, Shielded. scanners, Shielded, (except for USB, which is a balanced pair). mice, Shielded. cameras USB. etc. Keyboard: Shielded. Power cable: Filtered. And you should be aware that the same engineering standards used to prevent RFI from -exiting- the computer case also serve to prevent RFI from -entering- the computer case. Got any more lame excuses? _____________________ Authorization to transmit with a CB is automatically revoked when the station is operating illegally. Shall I cite the code? Not necessary. Just prove that the station is illegal. It wouldn't hurt to have some decent field strength readings. Maybe a witness attesting to the actual use of an amp? How about just setting up a legal CB radio next to the computer and see if it causes the same problems described by the OP? I have done so many times and never experienced a problem. In fact, I have a Tram 60 sitting right beside my computer and use it frequently with no ill effects to the computer, although the computer does tend to cause RFI to the radio..... _____________________ Which is all well and good but until you've satisfied the feds that your consumer grade stuff is properly filtered, they aren't going to bother sending anyone out to check. They won't send anyone out regardless. They don't care about the CB. But they do suck up to the ham community, and if it turns out that this guy has a license they may indeed take action if they find he is operating illegally (i.e, using power on the CB). Which brings us back to doing the necessary part of filtering before calling. A local AM station (KGA, I think) had a problem a few years back. They were pumping so much power that you could hear the audio sounding from the chain-link fence at the nearby school. Are you suggesting that it is the school's responsibilty to filter the fence? _____________________ So far, I've not read from Jade anything that remotely suggests he or she has a serious interference complaint involving another radio service. I read "fire service" radio and I invited Jade to tell me what he/she considers a fire service radio. Scanners don't count. Actually, they do. If someone is causing interference to a scanner, it's very possible..... nay, -likely-..... that he will also cause interference to an emergency service radio that happens to be in close proximity. This is a problem because while the cops chase the killer with the gun running through the neighborhood, Andy the Amphead keys up and the guy gets away (or worse) because the cops lose comm. Are you trying to present that a "real radios" front end isn't any better than a scanner? I'm sure the folks paying for those $3000 MA/COM's & Motorolas would love to know about that. Even the Kenwood & Icom users. If the harmonic falls on the operating frequency then it doesn't matter how well the front end is built -- interference is the inevitable result. But even the best receivers are not immune to overload. You're also back to calling the guy guilty before you have proof. Reread the part about innocent till proven guilty. I'm convinced with the information that was given. I suspect that you are also convinced but are simply making excuses. If you are not convinced then either you have very little experience or are woefully ignorant about the subject. ______________________ I haven't seen any real proof that the neighbor is running an illegal station. Jade has not indicated other neighbors are complaining of similar events. Such complaints might induce me to think the cb'er is running power. Then that would be a good question to ask. So ask it. I believe I already did. I looked back through the thread and I saw no such question. Perhaps my news server didn't pick it up -- care to cite the post? _______________________ Unless or until someone brings more convincing proof of the allegations, I'm going with the notion it's a singular complaint due the quality of the consumer electronics invloved. You'll excuse me if I happen to believe in "reasonable doubt" & "due process" instead of conjecture & unfounded finger pointing. bc How about "civic responsibility"? How about Constitutional Law? How about it? Although it has fallen by the wayside during the Bush administration, there is nothing I suggested that would deprive anyone of their Constitutional rights. I'm not a court and I don't execute due process. But if I have good reason to believe that someone is violating a law then I don't keep my mouth shut because of some whacko's ultra-literal interpretation of the Constitution. Due process is not pre-empted by a presumption of innocence -- OTOH, due process must be initiated before it can occur, and reasonable suspicion is enough to begin that process. That's the law. If you don't like it, work to change it. If you don't then quit whining and learn to live with the system the way it is. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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From: (Frank=A0Gilliland)
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:20:28 -0400, "BobC" wrote in : (How about Constitutional Law? ) How about it? Although it has fallen by the wayside during the Bush administration, there is nothing I suggested that would deprive anyone of their Constitutional rights. I'm not a court and I don't execute due process. But if I have good reason to believe that someone is violating a law then I don't keep my mouth shut because of some whacko's ultra-literal interpretation of the Constitution. Due process is not pre-empted by a presumption of innocence -- OTOH, due process must be initiated before it can occur, and reasonable suspicion is enough to begin that process. That's the law. If you don't like it, work to change it. If you don't then quit whining and learn to live with the system the way it is. Fwiw, Due Process (according to the Supreme Court) is a difficult thing to define. It has been said DP is merely the law of the land. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments refer only to federal agency protection with regards to DP. DP is basically how and why laws are enforced, and questions "Is the law fair?" as in "does a law presume guilt?" The end result is the law (as it applies to all persons) must be clear and concise and it absolutely MUST have a presumption of innocence to comply with Due Process. |
"BobC" wrote in message ... "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:24:49 -0400, "BobC" wrote in : Ok, let's consider the circuitry in front of the speakers: Assuming the speakers do not have their own power amps, the amps are enclosed in a fully (or almost fully) shielded case. The only unshielded lines into the case are pairs; i.e, only common mode currents can enter the case. Excluding the power line (filtered by the power supply) and the phone line (filtered by the modem transformer), the only means of entry is through the speaker wires connected to a very low impedance power amp. And assuming the power amp uses feedback (and that rectification of the RF occurs at the power amp stage), it would take just as much power to distort the amps' intended output (and therefore cause audio feedback of the demodulated RF) as it would to drive the speakers directly. That also assumes an efficient antenna -- resonant lengths of speaker wire. Now if the speakers are amplified externally (amp in the speakers), they are more than likely driven by a shielded cable. Regardless, almost all low-level preamps are designed for high common-mode rejection (we're talking 60-90 dB+ at each stage); and since the low impedance of the power amp is no less suseptible to RFI than if the amp was enclosed in the computer case, it would -still- take a considerable amount of RF power on the lines to drive the speakers. This is not just theory but fact -- they are designed this way for the specific purpose of eliminating that annoying AC hum and digital RFI that permeates most houses, -especially- the horrific noise generated by computer monitors and light dimmers. "Overloaded DAC's"? I don't think so, Bob. How do you overload a DAC? YOU will have to do better than THAT. Common mode shmommen mode. In a perfect world your model works. But you're not explaining why I can eat up 2 out of 4 hi end audio cards. Most often, even wahat you consider "high end" cards do not have the audio sheild grounded properly. If you are running into problems try running the sheild to case ground or better yet use transformers. And if you're not cognizent of how you eat a DAC's lunch, go read. Prove yourself wrong and go see. There are countless DAC's sitting under big power AM/FM transmitters with much more RF saturation than the common splatter box can produce from a neighbor's house. AND if RF creeps into the front end of a DAC you will NOT hear it (program audio) over the speakers, it will simply raise the error rate and cause the audio to be glitched or muted. You may also notice that modems don't always use transformers anymore. Most do, motherboard integrated ones are starting not to. Which sucks IMHO, if something goes wrong "mother nature" it's new mobo time! Modems are just as susceptible to rf on the lines as anything else. No kidding, but their design dictates that unless their audio output is run to the speakers, audio will not get ino the sound card. Sound cards have fairly high imp, non-balanced inputs and hi gain. If the input is not being used it is shorted to "ground" as stated earlier this is not always a trusty ground, Shorting it to true ground or shutting that input off in the control panel will solve the problem. if one input or output sheild is grounded to a trustworthy ground it will all be good as they share ground with no buffering. If this input is tied to an output device the impedance of the output device is usually low enough to negate problems Your model assumes no (-) or (+) supply rail changes from rf. HEH there are no +/- rails in consumer audio cards, they are single ended. Until you get into the external pro cards you will see this. Your model only survives within the puter itself. Add rf on a mic, spkr or phone lead and you have a great receiver. Ground the sheild and the problem will go away. Tell us about that phone lead and why. It doesn't need to overload the main audio amp, just a prior stage. The xformers you mentioned have enough cap across the windings to pass rf. To what? The leads you mentioned are not the only ones connected to the puter. There are monitors, scanners, mice, cameras etc. All not associated with audio, concentrate on the audio card. Hell, my cell phone drives them nuts till they are properly taken care of. one ground and the problem goes away. Another question to raise is is there even a ground? how old is the house and has the ground rod rotted away, better yet, is there even a ground rod? Chad _____________________ Authorization to transmit with a CB is automatically revoked when the station is operating illegally. Shall I cite the code? Not necessary. Just prove that the station is illegal. It wouldn't hurt to have some decent field strength readings. Maybe a witness attesting to the actual use of an amp? _____________________ Which is all well and good but until you've satisfied the feds that your consumer grade stuff is properly filtered, they aren't going to bother sending anyone out to check. They won't send anyone out regardless. They don't care about the CB. But they do suck up to the ham community, and if it turns out that this guy has a license they may indeed take action if they find he is operating illegally (i.e, using power on the CB). Which brings us back to doing the necessary part of filtering before calling. _____________________ So far, I've not read from Jade anything that remotely suggests he or she has a serious interference complaint involving another radio service. I read "fire service" radio and I invited Jade to tell me what he/she considers a fire service radio. Scanners don't count. Actually, they do. If someone is causing interference to a scanner, it's very possible..... nay, -likely-..... that he will also cause interference to an emergency service radio that happens to be in close proximity. This is a problem because while the cops chase the killer with the gun running through the neighborhood, Andy the Amphead keys up and the guy gets away (or worse) because the cops lose comm. Are you trying to present that a "real radios" front end isn't any better than a scanner? I'm sure the folks paying for those $3000 MA/COM's & Motorolas would love to know about that. Even the Kenwood & Icom users. You're also back to calling the guy guilty before you have proof. Reread the part about innocent till proven guilty. ______________________ I haven't seen any real proof that the neighbor is running an illegal station. Jade has not indicated other neighbors are complaining of similar events. Such complaints might induce me to think the cb'er is running power. Then that would be a good question to ask. So ask it. I believe I already did. _______________________ Unless or until someone brings more convincing proof of the allegations, I'm going with the notion it's a singular complaint due the quality of the consumer electronics invloved. You'll excuse me if I happen to believe in "reasonable doubt" & "due process" instead of conjecture & unfounded finger pointing. bc How about "civic responsibility"? How about Constitutional Law? bc |
"itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge" wrote in message ... "U Know Who" wrote in news:6TCbe.43676$hu5.16593 @tornado.texas.rr.com: "itoldyouiamnotiamnotgeorge" wrote in message ... Frank Gilliland wrote in : On 25 Apr 2005 19:48:48 -0700, "Cliff" wrote in . com: If a CB radio is legal on wattage out, he doesn't have to clean up that image on any of older TV models. Older TV models are horrific in picking up 'legal transmissions' The TV/computer owner wil need to put some filters inline to take care of the problem if the CB is legal. Televisions have always had problems with CB radios because the second harmonic falls right on channel 2. But that second harmonic is supposed to be supressed (filtered) to a point where it's effect is negligible. A stock, unmodified, untweaked radio will usually not cause interference to a TV unless you mount the antenna right next to the set. The problem is the golden screwdrivers and internet techs who tweak & peak their radios for modulation and/or power without regard to the resulting increase of harmonics. Even if power is kept to the legal limit, the modulation limiter can be modified for overmodulation, and therefore cause a big increase in harmonics. This is why modification of the radio is illegal. And modification of the radio voids your authorization to use it, regardless of the RFI suseptibility of a TV. Now this is the Old Frank that I have come to know and love ... 2 thumbs up Frank!!! Awww! Ain't just the sweetest thing you've ever written? No that i ****ed your ex- old lady was better. More power to ya, bud! |
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:22:40 -0500, "Chad Wahls"
wrote in : snip Most often, even wahat you consider "high end" cards do not have the audio sheild grounded properly. Very good point. Some cards have shield connectors that are DC isolated from the chassis to prevent ground loops with other audio equipment. In such cards the shield is coupled to chassis ground with caps, but line noise can be a problem (and the cap must be shorted) because the caps may not large enough to fully shunt low frequencies. But the caps do shunt RF very well, and if they can keep the local AM broadcast stations out of the soundcard then the neighbor's legal CB radio shouldn't be a problem. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:22:40 -0500, "Chad Wahls" wrote in : snip Most often, even wahat you consider "high end" cards do not have the audio sheild grounded properly. Very good point. Some cards have shield connectors that are DC isolated from the chassis to prevent ground loops with other audio equipment. In such cards the shield is coupled to chassis ground with caps, but line noise can be a problem (and the cap must be shorted) because the caps may not large enough to fully shunt low frequencies. But the caps do shunt RF very well, and if they can keep the local AM broadcast stations out of the soundcard then the neighbor's legal CB radio shouldn't be a problem. Problem is that they don't do all that well with AM Broadcast. When I was a conglomo radio engineer we had a 50K FM and a 500W AM in a residential area. I would get complaints-o-plenty of the AM coming thru computer speakers, cheapo HT systems and phones. Of course we had to do what we could to eliminate the problem and usually I would pull the sound card, DC ground it with 1 ohm 1/4W resistors and the problem went away. 90% of my problems called in were ratified with proper grounding. Fortunately most of the construction in the area is newer as that tower used to be outside city limits but due to urban sprawl it is no longer. As for my personal soundcards I use pro models with a separate breakout box that's balanced. The other card in that computer and other computers in the house are SB audigy models with the mini jacks removed and XLR whips out in their place. This whip then goes to a breakout box with 6 Jensen transformers in it 4 for output and 2 for input. The mic input is shorted down permanently. I have zero noise problems, if you have an Audigy card it does sound good! You just have to help it out :) The transformers....... When radio engineering and upgrading EAS systems in all the stations I found that all the old receivers that we were throwing out were loaded with Jensen transformers! What a salvage find!!!!! I had many-o-dumpster diving missions, then adopted a Chad's gotta pilfer it pile. Lots of transformers and power supplies were gutted :) Chad |
Yep, I do get the drift. Beautifully illustrated with a great analogy.
You ought write that up in a neat letter to your local editor concerning the (un)Patriot Act,,or even a national editor. |
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 11:27:29 -0400, (I
AmnotGeorgeBush) wrote in : Yep, I do get the drift. Beautifully illustrated with a great analogy. You ought write that up in a neat letter to your local editor concerning the (un)Patriot Act,,or even a national editor. Thank you. Plagiarize it as you see fit. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:11:08 -0500, "Chad Wahls"
wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message .. . On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:22:40 -0500, "Chad Wahls" wrote in : snip Most often, even wahat you consider "high end" cards do not have the audio sheild grounded properly. Very good point. Some cards have shield connectors that are DC isolated from the chassis to prevent ground loops with other audio equipment. In such cards the shield is coupled to chassis ground with caps, but line noise can be a problem (and the cap must be shorted) because the caps may not large enough to fully shunt low frequencies. But the caps do shunt RF very well, and if they can keep the local AM broadcast stations out of the soundcard then the neighbor's legal CB radio shouldn't be a problem. Problem is that they don't do all that well with AM Broadcast. When I was a conglomo radio engineer we had a 50K FM and a 500W AM in a residential area. I would get complaints-o-plenty of the AM coming thru computer speakers, cheapo HT systems and phones. Sounds like we had similar jobs -- do the daily checks, fill out the daily reports, then spend the rest of the day making cables, cleaning cart machines and waiting for something to break? Of course we had to do what we could to eliminate the problem and usually I would pull the sound card, DC ground it with 1 ohm 1/4W resistors and the problem went away. 90% of my problems called in were ratified with proper grounding. Fortunately most of the construction in the area is newer as that tower used to be outside city limits but due to urban sprawl it is no longer. As for my personal soundcards I use pro models with a separate breakout box that's balanced. The other card in that computer and other computers in the house are SB audigy models with the mini jacks removed and XLR whips out in their place. This whip then goes to a breakout box with 6 Jensen transformers in it 4 for output and 2 for input. The mic input is shorted down permanently. I have zero noise problems, if you have an Audigy card it does sound good! You just have to help it out :) I use the Extigy -- it's great because you can locate the box some distance away from the noisy computer and ground it directly to the mixer. But for complaints to the station, I got them to order a huge box of 4" jumpers that have pigtails to the shield. Just plug them into the soundcard (or whatever audio equipment is getting the interference), screw the pigtail to the chassis, and 'presto' -- problem solved. No invasive surgery, and you're out of the house in a matter of minutes. The transformers....... When radio engineering and upgrading EAS systems in all the stations I found that all the old receivers that we were throwing out were loaded with Jensen transformers! What a salvage find!!!!! No kidding! I had many-o-dumpster diving missions, then adopted a Chad's gotta pilfer it pile. Lots of transformers and power supplies were gutted :) Those old Bogen and Rauland paging amps have some pretty sweet transformers, too. One of these days we gotta exchange inventory lists of our scrounge bins. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
FRANK, U B CORRECT ON THIS.
|
"Steveo" wrote...
Vinnie S. wrote: Here is something I learned. My 2M/440 handheld sets off my paper shredder when it is within 3 feet. I hope your parakeet doesn't land on it as you key up. What's for breakfast... Shredded Tweet :~) Regards, Peter http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ |
"Peter" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote... Vinnie S. wrote: Here is something I learned. My 2M/440 handheld sets off my paper shredder when it is within 3 feet. I hope your parakeet doesn't land on it as you key up. What's for breakfast... Shredded Tweet :~) Regards, Peter http://www.citizensband.radiouk.com/ OH! please tip your waitress, he'll be here all week! |
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:11:08 -0500, "Chad Wahls" wrote in : "Frank Gilliland" wrote in message . .. On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:22:40 -0500, "Chad Wahls" wrote in : snip Most often, even wahat you consider "high end" cards do not have the audio sheild grounded properly. Very good point. Some cards have shield connectors that are DC isolated from the chassis to prevent ground loops with other audio equipment. In such cards the shield is coupled to chassis ground with caps, but line noise can be a problem (and the cap must be shorted) because the caps may not large enough to fully shunt low frequencies. But the caps do shunt RF very well, and if they can keep the local AM broadcast stations out of the soundcard then the neighbor's legal CB radio shouldn't be a problem. Problem is that they don't do all that well with AM Broadcast. When I was a conglomo radio engineer we had a 50K FM and a 500W AM in a residential area. I would get complaints-o-plenty of the AM coming thru computer speakers, cheapo HT systems and phones. Sounds like we had similar jobs -- do the daily checks, fill out the daily reports, then spend the rest of the day making cables, cleaning cart machines and waiting for something to break? And spring storms... Arrrgh. Had a ground come loose once and I got the page "Chad oldie's console is on fire!" That was the worst electrical storm I have ever seen, My tower got hit 53 times in one day. I went thru an ass load of OpAmps that day! I was actually second in command, the CE was corporate, so, often in the spring and summer he was off building stations which put me in charge. It was a great relationship as the Engineering dept was least hasseled and my "boss" the CE and I are best friends. I'm still over there helping out from time to time. BEs are like farmers, always willing to help each other out, I like that! Of course we had to do what we could to eliminate the problem and usually I would pull the sound card, DC ground it with 1 ohm 1/4W resistors and the problem went away. 90% of my problems called in were ratified with proper grounding. Fortunately most of the construction in the area is newer as that tower used to be outside city limits but due to urban sprawl it is no longer. As for my personal soundcards I use pro models with a separate breakout box that's balanced. The other card in that computer and other computers in the house are SB audigy models with the mini jacks removed and XLR whips out in their place. This whip then goes to a breakout box with 6 Jensen transformers in it 4 for output and 2 for input. The mic input is shorted down permanently. I have zero noise problems, if you have an Audigy card it does sound good! You just have to help it out :) I use the Extigy -- it's great because you can locate the box some distance away from the noisy computer and ground it directly to the mixer. Yeah, those are great consumer cards! I went with the original audigy because they were dirt cheap at the time and sound good. My big sound card for my mastering system is a MOTU 828mkII. I love it! I recently bought it to upgrade an old Echo LAYLA, still nice but I wanted firewire. But for complaints to the station, I got them to order a huge box of 4" jumpers that have pigtails to the shield. Just plug them into the soundcard (or whatever audio equipment is getting the interference), screw the pigtail to the chassis, and 'presto' -- problem solved. No invasive surgery, and you're out of the house in a matter of minutes. Unfortunately I was across the street from the local community college, so the surrounding apartments had a lot of student housing. The kids would go home for the summer and convieninetly loose the jumpers. I had some too (jumpers) and would use them for the more established residents but for the kids I would do the solder in to keep from having to come back. I got pretty quick with it so I could be in and out fast. Took longer to explain what I was going to do than do it :) The transformers....... When radio engineering and upgrading EAS systems in all the stations I found that all the old receivers that we were throwing out were loaded with Jensen transformers! What a salvage find!!!!! No kidding! I had many-o-dumpster diving missions, then adopted a Chad's gotta pilfer it pile. Lots of transformers and power supplies were gutted :) Those old Bogen and Rauland paging amps have some pretty sweet transformers, too. One of these days we gotta exchange inventory lists of our scrounge bins. My bins are slowly deteriorating as I've been out of the loop a while but I have another build this summer I said I would help on :) After that I should be back in action for a while! My best find was 3 Invonics AM broadcast processors I think they are LVP201's. I was a touring sound engineer and I used one for lead vocal and 2 for squashing the drums. I would have the drums on a VCA and then send them to the "loud drums subgroup" for discretionary use. This would make the drums "louder" without chewing up subwoofers. Great for a drum solo and what it did for vocals was amazing. I got some pretty funny looks from other engineers on the road though :) I sold two of them to a local studio and now have one at home on my.... u guessed it.... CB:) Talk about loud audio, screw swing, I have NO swing, the way it should be :) I got those units from a dumpster because they had LED's burnt out, HA! Chad |
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:11:26 -0500, "Chad Wahls"
wrote in : snip Sounds like we had similar jobs -- do the daily checks, fill out the daily reports, then spend the rest of the day making cables, cleaning cart machines and waiting for something to break? And spring storms... Arrrgh. Had a ground come loose once and I got the page "Chad oldie's console is on fire!" That was the worst electrical storm I have ever seen, My tower got hit 53 times in one day. I went thru an ass load of OpAmps that day! I was actually second in command, the CE was corporate, so, often in the spring and summer he was off building stations which put me in charge. It was a great relationship as the Engineering dept was least hasseled and my "boss" the CE and I are best friends. I'm still over there helping out from time to time. BEs are like farmers, always willing to help each other out, I like that! I know what you mean. A couple months ago they asked me if I wanted to change the bulbs in the tower and I did -- the view is incredible if you don't mind all the bird ****. snip I use the Extigy -- it's great because you can locate the box some distance away from the noisy computer and ground it directly to the mixer. Yeah, those are great consumer cards! I went with the original audigy because they were dirt cheap at the time and sound good. My big sound card for my mastering system is a MOTU 828mkII. I love it! I recently bought it to upgrade an old Echo LAYLA, still nice but I wanted firewire. The LAYLA? Heck, that's almost as old as my Tropez! But for complaints to the station, I got them to order a huge box of 4" jumpers that have pigtails to the shield. Just plug them into the soundcard (or whatever audio equipment is getting the interference), screw the pigtail to the chassis, and 'presto' -- problem solved. No invasive surgery, and you're out of the house in a matter of minutes. Unfortunately I was across the street from the local community college, so the surrounding apartments had a lot of student housing. The kids would go home for the summer and convieninetly loose the jumpers. I had some too (jumpers) and would use them for the more established residents but for the kids I would do the solder in to keep from having to come back. I got pretty quick with it so I could be in and out fast. Took longer to explain what I was going to do than do it :) I had a different problem -- half of this town is retired so I usually got stuck being the geriatric-therapist-du-jour. snip .....One of these days we gotta exchange inventory lists of our scrounge bins. My bins are slowly deteriorating as I've been out of the loop a while but I have another build this summer I said I would help on :) After that I should be back in action for a while! My best find was 3 Invonics AM broadcast processors I think they are LVP201's. I was a touring sound engineer and I used one for lead vocal and 2 for squashing the drums. I would have the drums on a VCA and then send them to the "loud drums subgroup" for discretionary use. This would make the drums "louder" without chewing up subwoofers. Great for a drum solo and what it did for vocals was amazing. I got some pretty funny looks from other engineers on the road though :) Hey, ya use what ya got. Nowdays if the band is mobile it's a lot easier on the vertebrae to just get a Behringer with all the bells and whistles. They are a little expensive but a lot easier than lugging around an effects rack. I sold two of them to a local studio and now have one at home on my.... u guessed it.... CB:) Talk about loud audio, screw swing, I have NO swing, the way it should be :) I got those units from a dumpster because they had LED's burnt out, HA! That sounds about right. You can talk some of these stations out of just about anything by telling them they forgot to change the oil. ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:11:26 -0500, "Chad Wahls" wrote in : snip Sounds like we had similar jobs -- do the daily checks, fill out the daily reports, then spend the rest of the day making cables, cleaning cart machines and waiting for something to break? And spring storms... Arrrgh. Had a ground come loose once and I got the page "Chad oldie's console is on fire!" That was the worst electrical storm I have ever seen, My tower got hit 53 times in one day. I went thru an ass load of OpAmps that day! I was actually second in command, the CE was corporate, so, often in the spring and summer he was off building stations which put me in charge. It was a great relationship as the Engineering dept was least hasseled and my "boss" the CE and I are best friends. I'm still over there helping out from time to time. BEs are like farmers, always willing to help each other out, I like that! I know what you mean. A couple months ago they asked me if I wanted to change the bulbs in the tower and I did -- the view is incredible if you don't mind all the bird ****. No ****ing way! I get nervous standing on a stool! One day The tower crew's radios were not working. I had a landline phone in the shack and it was imparative that I be able to talk to them so I sent them up with my cell phone. I was talking to the head guy when I heard this "click, click oh, fuuu... cassssshhhhh" My phone had just fallen 250' I slammed the battery on the back and powered it up. Aside from having to put some tape on the battery for reinforcement the phone worked flawlessy for another year and a half till the dog ate it :) I will ALWAYS buy Nokia phones :) snip I use the Extigy -- it's great because you can locate the box some distance away from the noisy computer and ground it directly to the mixer. Yeah, those are great consumer cards! I went with the original audigy because they were dirt cheap at the time and sound good. My big sound card for my mastering system is a MOTU 828mkII. I love it! I recently bought it to upgrade an old Echo LAYLA, still nice but I wanted firewire. The LAYLA? Heck, that's almost as old as my Tropez! Yeah I know, I run 'em till the wheels fall off :) But for complaints to the station, I got them to order a huge box of 4" jumpers that have pigtails to the shield. Just plug them into the soundcard (or whatever audio equipment is getting the interference), screw the pigtail to the chassis, and 'presto' -- problem solved. No invasive surgery, and you're out of the house in a matter of minutes. Unfortunately I was across the street from the local community college, so the surrounding apartments had a lot of student housing. The kids would go home for the summer and convieninetly loose the jumpers. I had some too (jumpers) and would use them for the more established residents but for the kids I would do the solder in to keep from having to come back. I got pretty quick with it so I could be in and out fast. Took longer to explain what I was going to do than do it :) I had a different problem -- half of this town is retired so I usually got stuck being the geriatric-therapist-du-jour. Worse than a bartender :) :) :) Hey, ya use what ya got. Nowdays if the band is mobile it's a lot easier on the vertebrae to just get a Behringer with all the bells and whistles. They are a little expensive but a lot easier than lugging around an effects rack. Yamaha PM1D for a bunch of shows, I was way over the Behringer league when in it full swing. http://www.yamaha.ca/content/proaudi...eyfeatures.jsp Still quite heavy but really cuts down on gates and comps. The invonics were money channel comps, I still had to carry a rack for the analog shows. For smaller scale I like the 02R, and the Innovason compact live. Mackie (arrgh) just introduced, well just started shipping, the TT24 which looks cool but there are only a handful out there now, I would like to use one sometime. Problem is that your stuck with one brand of effects. I wish digital console manufacturers would get together and adopt a plug-in or memory card type standard for effect engines :) I'm a T.C. Electronic guy myself! Chad |
On Mon, 2 May 2005 09:09:03 -0500, "Chad Wahls"
wrote in : snip Problem is that your stuck with one brand of effects. I wish digital console manufacturers would get together and adopt a plug-in or memory card type standard for effect engines :) I'm a T.C. Electronic guy myself! Hey, there's always the MidiVerb! ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
"Frank Gilliland" wrote in message ... On Mon, 2 May 2005 09:09:03 -0500, "Chad Wahls" wrote in : snip Problem is that your stuck with one brand of effects. I wish digital console manufacturers would get together and adopt a plug-in or memory card type standard for effect engines :) I'm a T.C. Electronic guy myself! Hey, there's always the MidiVerb! MicroverbIII, screw MIDI :) I used to have guys come to me when I did tech support for a high end music store and say "Hey man, I wanna buy a MIDI." Best one was someone saying "I need a cable to jack off the back of my head" Chad |
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