|
On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:43:04 +0000, james wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:56:48 -0400, "Leland C. Scott" wrote: On Wed, 25 May 2005 12:39:42 -0400, I AmnotGeorgeBush wrote: And, the radical muslims will point blank tell you that you have three choices--join them, be enslaved by them or die. Muslims don't run this country, and the oppression you speak of is not limited to just the Muslim world or Iraq . This sounds just like the crusades all over again. If you haven't seen the new movie "Kingdom of Heaven" I suggest that you do. It will remind you of what is happening in the middle east now, even if it wasn't the intent of the movie. Regards, Leland C. Scott KC8LDO ******* Fantastic movie. The best that I have seen in several years. The messages were subtile but there. If one recognizes, then the movie has great meaning. Glad you enjoyed it too. If you read between the lines you'll see how the events back then, and the movie, are a reflection of what is happening now in the middle east. They say those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. I though the on-screen comment at the end of the movie was like the explanation point at the end of a sentence. Regards, Leland C. Scott KC8LDO |
On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:13:54 GMT, james wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 12:23:42 -0400, Dave Hall wrote: Duh! Last time I reviewed my civics and political science notes, I thought the American People were the government. You may find it acceptable to blindly follow your elected officials like those in Hitler Germany! Woah! Back up and drop the Hitler metaphors. This is not about dictatorship, but about the ineptitude, indifference, and general lack of understanding of "big picture" politics by the average American. We elect representatives to carry out America's business in our best interests so that "we the people" do not have to. If the government had to disclose each and every piece of intelligence with the population at large, they would, at the very least, create a national security issue, and at the worst create confusion and panic as the average citizen tries to come to grips with what they've just been told. ****** no I elect representatives to do what I want. Along with everyone else. The reality is that no one gets exactly what THEY want. We settle for elected officials who share our basic ideology, values, and character. I don't elect them to go off and do as they see fit. But that's exactly what they do, within reason. When was the last time someone you helped to elect did exactly what you wanted them to do? When was the last time they asked you what you wanted? This may not be what th eaverage American does but if they wish to jump off a cliff then so be it. Even a representative democracy can desolve into facism and dictatorship. Remember Hitler was elected and he did not gain his dictatorship untill after he was in office. Actually Hitler gained his power after Paul Von Hindenburg died in 1934. Before that Hitler was just a chancellor and had been unable to beat Hindenburg in the last election. So in many ways, fate was responsible for Hilter's chance at power. Then he convinced the Congress and the poeple of Gernamy that it was in the best interest that he and the leadership rebuild Germany. Yes, and like Clinton, Hitler took the credit for many of the economic improvements that had been occurring, and he was somewhat successful in convincing the less educated into believing that the root of their problems rested squarely on the shoulders of the Jews. Hitler used this as a rallying cry to unify the people into following his distorted views of how things should be. He asked for their trust in the leaderships work and not to worry that they had their best interest at heart. No, he basically told them that Germans were superior, gave them someone else to blame (deflection) for their problems, and promised to "fix" it. When you tell people what they want to hear, it's not hard to gain their support. The rate Congres s here is going in ten yrs we all will have to have papers to travel around in the US. Surely you have to realize just how exaggeratedly absurd that is. Besides, we already have "papers". It's called a driver's license. Members in Congress want even more rigid Patriot Act enactment. I love that, they want the masses to give up civl liberties and make them feel it is patriotic to do so! Even call the law the "Patriot Act". Well, here's the deal. If we have total freedom and civil liberties, it becomes next to impossible to effectively protect us against outside infiltrators. So you have to make a choice. Either certain freedoms need to be modified or curtailed in order to make our borders more secure, make living and travel throughout our country more difficult for non-citizens, and obtaining forged documents by hostiles much tougher, or we have to learn to accept that the price of our open freedom might likely be a large scale terrorist attack. You cannot realistically expect to have both total freedom and total protection. If you do not want the government taking steps to protect us from terrorists, then you have no right to complain when they attack. As long as they use our own laws against us, we remain vulnerable. Most people are willing to give up some freedoms in order to gain better security. But that does not mean that we are "becoming a fascist state". As long as we can continue to elect our representatives, that will not happen. GW Bush will not be the president 4 years from now, and there will be a new leader for us to blame for all the trouble we're having. IF Americans don't wake up to the big picture it will be to late. In fact so many things are no win place that it may now be to late. One more 9/11 event and that may spell the end of most of our civil liberties. I'd rather lose some civil liberties than worry that my family could be wiped from the planet in one fell swoop. Besides, some people take advantage of certain civil liberties in order to engage in activities that are either illegal or immoral. A greater individual accountability for those activities would not be a bad thing IMHO. I bet Jefferson is rolling in his grave at the blind sheep the Americans have become. Yet, you would entrust these same blind sheep as worthy of knowing all intelligence information on our foreign affairs?. Dave "Sandbagger" |
On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:15:04 GMT, james wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 12:23:42 -0400, Dave Hall wrote: Son I have a great deal of intreped feelings when a President says to me trust me I am keeping the best interests of the American People at heart and then proceeds to beat around the bush, no pun intended, trying to justify a preemptive invasion. There is a reason why we have a representative democracy and not a direct democracy. We elect people who are supposedly trained in the skills necessary to carry out our business. ***** Go ahead and just believe that those elected have y our best interests in mind. I hear the shears are being prepared for y ou sheep. Yea I know, our government has pledged it's true allegiance to the "corporate machine", the free masons, Skull and bones, a "shadow government" consisting of the descendants of Howard Hughes and the "Old money" cronies of the industrial age and maybe even gray aliens from Zeti-Reticuli. You complain about the motives of our elected officials, yet insist that our form of government is the only way to go. That seems to be an inconsistent position to take. If you don't like your elected officials, then vote them out next term. But don't complain if the majority of voters differ from your opinion and override your selection. That's what majority rule is all about. For every one who gets what they want, someone else will be unhappy. That's life. Dave "Sandbagger" |
On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:41:38 -0700, "John Smith"
wrote: James: There is much truth in your words. The forefathers intended the least gov't is the best gov't--gov't should only serve the people and provide for their best interests and well being--down to the very last, one, single, citizen... It is quite obvious this gov't has much bigger plans... Well considering our history and standing as the world's richest and most successful country, I'd say that our government has had our best interests at heart in most cases. Dave "Sandbagger" |
On Wed, 25 May 2005 20:26:51 GMT, james wrote:
On Wed, 25 May 2005 08:12:20 -0400, Dave Hall wrote: Outsourcing is inevitable until the standard of living in the rest of the world equalizes with our own. It's not good news for us, but it's an unfortunate reality. ****** You will sing a different tune when your $60K per yr job goes to China and your planned retirement of $120K+ dwindles down to $36K per yr. Why would I sing a different tune? The reality is the same whether I'm directly affected by it or not. I never said it was a good thing for American workers, but it is an understandable trend considering the economic dynamics of the world market. Think who benifits from outsourcing? Long term or short? Corporations. Why? Consumers demand lower prices and Corparations are doing their best to give the consumers what they want. Sorry but cheap prices can't go on for ever. Once the world's cheap labor is exploited, consumer prices will rise like a Proton Rocket. So, here we have a double edged sword. We live in a world economy, with companies from all over the world competing for market share. So, what's a U.S. based corporation to do? Should it: A. Keep its U.S. work force in order to altruistically keep the American work force employed? B. Outsource to a foreign country where labor and overhead is much cheaper? Considering that other countries have no objection to using cheap foreign labor, and producing products cheaper, the U.S. company is now at a competitive disadvantage with those products which they are in direct competition from foreign companies. Tell me, would you pay 50 - 100% more for a TV or some other product just to keep the U.S. company here? Considering that the government is squeezing more and more money out of us in the form of taxes, and the costs of things like fuel are skyrocketing, we look for the best bargains in everything we buy. And that doesn't cover the foreign market. Would a European pay more for a U.S. made product over a foreign made product? What ultimately happens to a U.S. corporation who loses a competitive edge? What happens when there are no more cheap labor countries like China? Can you spell double digit inflation??? How about 20% per yr for about ten yrs. Maybe even longer or higher inflation rates. Yes, inflation is a very real fear. But when the standard of living equalizes, then there will be no further incentive to manufacture overseas. Then factors such as shipping costs will make domestic manufacturing attractive again for the U.S. market. Inflation may also be mitigated by market pressures. If people cannot afford to buy as much, demand goes down. When demand goes down, so does the price. That's free market 101. Yes as the world's standard of living increases, so will inflation. I forsee 10 to 20% annual inflation rates somewhere in the 2030 to 2040 time frame. By then the world will dream of 4% inflation rates. Out sourcing is eventually going to drag the US' standard of living down to the rest of the world's as their's rises towards. That's what I meant when I said equalize the world's standard of living. Not only will the 3rd world catch up, but we will fall somewhat. That is the price we pay for living in a world market. 50 years ago, when most of our goods were made here, we controlled the market. Now we're just one of many players. You can't get something for nothing. You don't know just how much truth there is in that statement. In time the US will suffer. Prepare for China owning more an dmore of teh US debt and consequently the US' economy . Ok, We pretty much agree that the road ahead will be a bit bumpy. So what do we do about it? Can we do anything about it? |
|
|
ass.wizard wrote:
So then, Bush is our enemy- =A0 =A0 When a president is sworn in, he swears to uphold and protect the Constitution. As soon as he was sworn in, he launched an attack on parts of it. Nowhere in the oath does it say "And swear to uphold the Constitution EXCEPT in matters of.....(insert republican lunacy here)". Yes, Bush is the enemy of the people of the United States. Yesterday's poll showed 61% of the American people now believe Bush does NOT have the best interests of the country at heart..but I find solace in those stats. People need a wakeup a call in addition to the government they deserve. |
David T. Hall Jr. wrote:
No, Hitler (Bush) basically told them that Germans (American Christians) were superior, gave them someone else to blame (terrorists) (deflection) for their problems, and promised to "fix" it. When you tell people what they want to hear, it's not hard to gain their support. You not only bought this bull**** lock, stock and barrel, you inhaled it faster than Bush did cocaine at Yale. - (The rate Congres s here is going in ten yrs we all will have to have papers to travel around in the US. ) Surely you have to realize just how exaggeratedly absurd that is. Surely you don't realize how clueless you are. If you kept up to date on your own parties activity, you will find the proposal of a national ID card is not only very real, but a probability,,,all in the name of protection. Besides, we already have "papers". It's called a driver's license. He said "national".,,all across America, not issued by the state, but issued by the feds. (Members in Congress want even more rigid Patriot Act enactment. I love that, they want the masses to give up civl liberties and make them feel it is patriotic to do so! Even call the law the "Patriot Act". ) Well, here's the deal. If we have total freedom and civil liberties, it becomes next to impossible to effectively protect us against outside infiltrators. Exactly. And this country has always operated that way. Freedon does not come without its price. So you have to make a choice. The choice has already been made. Bush seeks to change it. Either certain freedoms need to be modified or .curtailed in order to make our borders more secure, make living and travel throughout our country more difficult for non-citizens, and obtaining forged documents by hostiles much tougher, or we have to learn to accept that the .price of our open freedom might likely be a large scale terrorist attack. In the first place, that you attempt but fail to make a lucid connection between cracking down on "terrorists" and curbing our rights is a highly laughable offense. People like you actually believe this ****. You cannot realistically expect to have both total freedom and total protection. Correct. This country chose total freedom. Bush is trying to do away with it. If you do not want the government taking steps to protect us from terrorists, The steps have proved fruitless. We lost rigts and attacks were still not prevented, have no right to complain when they attack. Keeping with that incompetent mindset, if you are not serving in the war, or have no family there, or have never served, you have no right to complain about those who do and say the war in Iraq is wrong. Ludicrous. As long as they use our own laws against us, we remain vulnerable. Open border policy and the freedom we enjoy has always made us vulnerable. That's the price we pay for the freedom we enjoy, it's a tradeoff risk we take. Most people are willing to give up some freedoms in order to gain better security. Dead wrong. Most people still believe in our founding forefathers statements and still apply them today. Franklin said "Those who would sacrifice personal rights in order to obtain temporary security, deserve neither" But that does not mean that we are "becoming .a fascist state". As long as we can continue to elect our representatives, that will not happen. GW Bush will not be the president 4 years from now, and there will be a new leader for us to blame for all the trouble we're having. And since you know it's going to be a democrat, you are already speaking of such blame 3 years away, but still suffer gastronomic pain when the Bush failures are illustrated. (IF Americans don't wake up to the big picture it will be to late. In fact so many things are no win place that it may now be to late. One more 9/11 event and that may spell the end of most of our civil liberties. ) I'd rather lose some civil liberties than worry that my family could be wiped from the planet .in one fell swoop. As Franklin said, you deserve neither. Besides, some people take advantage of certain civil liberties in order to engage in activities that are either illegal or immoral. (snip) Have at it, David. You're certified. David T. Hall Jr. "Sandbagger" N3CVJ |
|
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:31 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com