RadioBanter - Type acceptance of older 23 ch radios vs. 40 channel question.

From: (Michael*Herron)
You made the claim, the burden of proof is one you.

Touche!! You got me there! I yield!

I am only too aware of all the orthodox hams

out there!

Which has nothing to do with your original claim.

Ok, Let me rephrase my statement. Perhaps I

was hasty in how I tried to convey what I was

thinking. I shall try to restate my position. I am

supportive of all those who wish to get a ham

license regardless of the class of license they

wish to obtain, what they have to learn to get

it, how well they actually do on the "test", or

whether they are electronics engineers or from
CB, bootleggers or otherwise. I recognize that

there are those who belittle nocodes, or those

who are of a lesser priviledged license class

than themselves and certainly cb'ers.

Incentive licensing should have never

happened IMHO as it seems to create a sort

of caste system or mentalilty among at least

some (as opposed to "many" HA!) hams.

IMHO, I believe the caste system was always present, but ironically grew
phenomenally with the advent of the nocode ticket.

These people make too much noise so

perhaps they are attributed with numbers in

the "many" catagory. I would like to see

"many" cb'ers become hams as I would like to

see more activity on bands when they are not

open as happens on cb although there is not

much choice about that if cb is the only band

you operate on.

More activity on certain bands would be welcomed, less activity on other
bands would also be welcomed.

I know many cool openings are missed as

usually no one is much on the bands that are

not open. I don't care if they still use cb or not

once licensed. It is all a hobby not a religion,

or a way of life, so there should be a lot of

latitude given to those who participate.

Agree.

My roots are in cb radio

As are with most hams today, yet some have a need to lie about it.

and I had a fairly short but good time there

and still have 6 close friends that went to ham

radio more or less when I did in 1970. I can

lookup alls for about a dozen cb'ers from the

late 60's that also became hams that I just

haven't kept in touch with.

Three of us used to have callsigns that were

sequential which was fun for a while. There

are certainly some aspects of cb operating

that SHOULD be imported to ham radio. You

will have better luck getting travel info on cb

than a 2 meter repeater!! Cb has it all over

ham radio for local mobile operating mostly

due to numbers of mobile operators. You can't
find out what the traffic jam is all about on a 2

meter repeater very often, or what freeway

conditions are like before you decide to jump

on the interstate. I could go on but will save

you from more of my rambling!

Soon the code will be dropped and it will be

easy to get a license.

It's easy to get a license now.

...Compared to when I got my (had them all)

licenses it sure as hell is!! Try taking them in

an FCC office when you know the engineer in

charge has had complaints in the past about

you bootlegging on CB!

Ha! That had to chap his ass.

Perhaps but I think he was glad! We were out

of his hair really.

Or perhaps, just getting into his hair with bigger and better gear. The
Rain Report is testament to this mindset each week.

my other two buddies had

been called by him (his name was Deitz) and

he suggested that they get ham licenses and

why they should. He never called me!

Maybe he wanted you popped.

What

was I?? Chopped Liver?? Scared one of them

to death with that call! He got rid of his cb (

Midland 13-880), amp (Hygain(?) Afterburner)

and took the antenna down. He sure learned

the code fast!!

Ha! Amazing what a little incentive can do.

I am not by any means anti-cw. I just do not

think proficiency in it suggests you will be sort

of a "squared away ham".

No, but one will be proficient in a universal language. Unless one
intends their signal stop at US borders or go only to English spoken
countries, cw is (again, imo) -it- when it comes to communicating
effectively on a universal platform.
_
The same goes for ham licensure, period.

True story!

Nor do I think CW will die away.

Nor do I.

I do not find it to be either a reliable or valid

indicator of overall proficiency in ham radio.

Well, an indicator of advancement in the hobby is most certainly code.

I was thinking more in terms of just being sort

of forced to learn it.

Perhaps you think it would be best to have a

typing test as an element for ham tests?

Nah!

GOOD! I can't type worth a dang!

Because digital modes and apparatus isn't as fascinating to the
dx-loving oldtimers compared to simply doing it yourself with nothing
but the rig, the antenna, sky, and mother nature.

Touche!

Hell! If you can't type you are gonna have a

hard time competing in contests (should you

desire to)! You pretty much have to be able to

type well to log maybe 1000 Q's in a weekend

contest into a logging program.

It is not that Morse prevents CB'ers from becoming hams!
The glass is half empty from your perspective, half full from mine.
There is no argument or contention among anyone that amateur radio
declined when the nocode ticket was introduced.

Not sure I understand that one correctly

The nocodes don't know what the airwaves were like before they were
licensed, simply because they were not present. The majority of ops who
were already licensed when the nocodes arrived certainly noticed not
only a decline in operator behavior but an increase in FCC enforcements
against licensed hams. Coincidence of timing? Methinks not.

Myself and several friends are sufficient proof

of that!

The increased number of actions taken by the FCC against nocodes
compared to the number of actions taken against other class of licenses
is proof of the decline, not your personal experiences.

Not sure if it proves a decline. Could it be that

there is a larger influx of new

**no code hams and the actions taken against

them is proportionate to what it was before?

The FCC has added no additional enforcement staff, yet enforcement has
increased against hams.

I was just saying that Morse itself does not

prevent cb'ers or anyone else from becoming

a ham, it is more their state of mind about

spending the time and effort to get it down that
gets in the way.

It is clearly the mindset of the learner that

prevents them learning it and getting a

license! That is not the issue to me. My

opinion is that there are more important things
to know than Morse to get started in ham

radio.

Depends what you are getting into ham radio for. As a sailor (civilian)
who is in international waters on a weekly basis, I can say cw, more
specifically, knowing "S-O-S", is one of the most important attributes a
ham licensed seaman can possess.

Yet others regard it as the foundation.

Considering SOS is universal, code can get
through when no other communication will,
even if one must bang on an object. Extremely
helpful in dire emergencies.

Yes they do, but not sure they should.

?

"Many" only means a large number,

numerous as defined by Mr. Webster. Pretty

subjective definition don't you think?? It

doesn't mean most or an overwhelming

number, or even 51 percent, just "a lot". CUL

in KW alley!

Fair enough. The matter is, there have been no reg contributors to this
group who have spoken against or try and prevented a cb'er from
obtaining a license. expressing a personal opinion of why an individual
chooses not to get licensed is not the same as speaking against another
who chooses to do so.

Likely the case, I am not a regular here so will

yield to your knowledge of that.

I'm not counting the few rotten hams that frequent this group who forge
cb'ers and cross-post to other groups in order to try and incite and
inflame other hams against cb'ers.

Of course this is rec.radio cb so I would

imagine most here have some positive

interest in cb so I would think that there would

not be a whole lot of posts that

are negative about cb or do cb bashing.

Oh, they are there, alright,

Your points are well taken, I like your style,

you speak your mind! You challenged me

to support my position or surrender it. I tried to
meet you halfway and revise it anyway!

You present things well, and I gotta think

about it because of it. I could talk to you for

hours

on the radio about this stuff! I sure never spent
this much time on QRZ.com getting involved

in a discussion!! See ya in the pileups!

I like a good discussion, too. I like disagreements too, when they are
properly presented, as one learns from other folks' mistakes as well as
accomplishments. Next time the dx is running down south to the
sandpile-ups, listen up for the swamp radio.
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