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recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
Want to use an Astatic Sliver Eagle for recording. This mic has a 4
pin connector. In order to use it for recording I need to get it to an XLR or 1/4 inch connector. Is there an adaptor? Will I need to wire a different connector on it? If so, can someone tell me what wires should go to where on the new plug. Thanks. |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
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recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
wrote: Want to use an Astatic Sliver Eagle for recording. This mic has a 4 pin connector. In order to use it for recording I need to get it to an XLR or 1/4 inch connector. Is there an adaptor? I'd suggest a visit to the Astatic web site, but they don't seem to list this model even in the "discontinued" section. You'll find some helpful information he http://members.cox.net/n4jk/d104.htm and he http://www.ronharter.com/microphones.asp But you'll have to do the work yourself or take it to someone with a little electronics construction experience. The 4-pin connector is still availabe. You can probably find it at Digi-Key or Mouser (both have web sites) but it might take a phone call to identify what you need to order. I believe that "Amphenol MC-4" will probably be an adequate description for a live person to find it. |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
In article .com, "Mark" wrote:
wrote: Want to use an Astatic Sliver Eagle for recording. This mic has a 4 pin connector. In order to use it for recording I need to get it to an XLR or 1/4 inch connector. Is there an adaptor? Will I need to wire a different connector on it? If so, can someone tell me what wires should go to where on the new plug. Thanks. why would you want to do that? if i remember, the D104 is a crystal mic which is Hi .Z I would guess at the type of connector. Typical communication rigs of past. Wire up a new connector. Two have to connected to the PTT switch. You should have a HiZ amp, perhaps a guitar amp could be adapted, except the thing has hig voltage but low current. Most tube preamps should work. greg |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
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recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
In article . net,
St. John Smythe wrote: wrote: Want to use an Astatic Sliver Eagle for recording. This mic has a 4 pin connector. In order to use it for recording I need to get it to an XLR or 1/4 inch connector. Is there an adaptor? Will I need to wire a different connector on it? If so, can someone tell me what wires should go to where on the new plug. Thanks. Both crystal and dynamic elements were available for D-104s, although the crystal elements were more common. The mics used to have an internal wiring diagram inside the bottom plate. (You could wire them so the push-to-talk switch also switched the mic element, or not.) Pop off the bottom and take a look. ALSO, I believe many of these were sold as dual-Z units. You could use two pins and the ground to get a balanced low-Z output, or the third pin and the ground to get an unbalanced high-Z output. Which one you want probably depends on what you are plugging it into and what you want it to sound like. There is a transformer in the base of the dual-Z models with either element. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
It wouldn't be the first time someone has used a D104 in studio as an
effect. The Silver Eagle version of the D104 has an amplifer (to work with modern radios), so impedance is not an issue. The mic does have a very high output (requires a 9V battery) that may easily overload the mic input of a mixer, even with a pad engaged. There is a gain control on the bottom of the mic. The 4-pin connector could be wired differently depending on the radio it was being used with, so open the connector and look at the wire colors. The mic actually has 6 wires, including a shield. Audio is unbalanced and between the white and shield. The other wires are only for switching and would not be used. Your best off with the 1/4" connector but you can try connecting the shield to pin 1 and white to pin 2 on the XLR. (You might also have to tie pin 3 to pin 1.) -- Make sure phantom power is turned off if using an XLR!!! -- Switching may be quite noisy since the audio is switched "line open" so lock the mic on, and mute the channel as needed. |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
robert440 wrote: The Silver Eagle version of the D104 has an amplifer (to work with modern radios), so impedance is not an issue. The mic does have a very high output (requires a 9V battery) that may easily overload the mic input of a mixer, even with a pad engaged. There is a gain control on the bottom of the mic. Just for reference, where does info on the mic come from? Given the built-in amplifier, it's obviously a recent version. Is it now manufactured or sold by a company other than Astatic? I was surprised not to find any data on the mic on the Astatic web sites other than a mention in their company history article. I'm familiar with the ham radio version of 50 years ago (which was indeed a crystal element). It seems that while the basic model number and appearance haven't changed significantly over the years, the inner workings have evolved substantially. |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
I always thought the 104 would make a really cool housing for a DIY
ribbon mic... |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
wrote:
I always thought the 104 would make a really cool housing for a DIY ribbon mic... There's no room inside there for the magnet assembly, though. The actual element on the D-104 is pretty tiny. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
Scott Dorsey wrote:
There's no room inside there for the magnet assembly, though. The actual element on the D-104 is pretty tiny. The one in my parts drawer is about 1-1/2" diameter x 3/8" thick. Aside from the dimensions, wouldn't a ribbon need an open back? -- St. John, whose ribbon experience starts and ends with RCA 77 and 44 series |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
St. John Smythe wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: There's no room inside there for the magnet assembly, though. The actual element on the D-104 is pretty tiny. The one in my parts drawer is about 1-1/2" diameter x 3/8" thick. Aside from the dimensions, wouldn't a ribbon need an open back? It would help. You could build a baffle behind the ribbon to make it a cardioid or omni, but that would require more space inside. St. John, whose ribbon experience starts and ends with RCA 77 and 44 series You can make a ribbon assembly smaller than that these days, but the problem is that the field needs to be uniform so whether the ribbon is fully forward or fully back it's bathed in the same flux. This means the pole pieces on the side need to be pretty deep. You can make them less wide by using modern rare earth magnets but it's hard to reduce them in size and get an even field, without making the ribbon smaller. Then, if the ribbon is smaller the output is reduced..... I think a Beyer assembly might just barely fit. The Shure SM33 assembly won't. -scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
In article .com, "Mike Rivers" wrote:
robert440 wrote: The Silver Eagle version of the D104 has an amplifer (to work with modern radios), so impedance is not an issue. The mic does have a very high output (requires a 9V battery) that may easily overload the mic input of a mixer, even with a pad engaged. There is a gain control on the bottom of the mic. Just for reference, where does info on the mic come from? Given the built-in amplifier, it's obviously a recent version. Is it now manufactured or sold by a company other than Astatic? I was surprised not to find any data on the mic on the Astatic web sites other than a mention in their company history article. I'm familiar with the ham radio version of 50 years ago (which was indeed a crystal element). It seems that while the basic model number and appearance haven't changed significantly over the years, the inner workings have evolved substantially. Come to think of it, I have a version of the mike. Its came on the Astatic Road Talker hand mic. Used the same ceramic as the D-104 but I believe it had some kind of baffle to make it a noise canceler and has a built in amplifier. I still have the schematic at home. The store I purchased it was very near the factory in Ohio. I was on the Astatic web site a while back and I thought it was strange also. greg |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
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recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
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recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
Mike Rivers wrote: Just for reference, where does info on the mic come from? Given the built-in amplifier, it's obviously a recent version. There have been versions of the D104 with built-in preamp circuits since at least the mid '70s. Possibly an outgrowth of the CB 'power mic' craze of the time. rd |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
Just for reference, where does info on the mic come from?
I worked in engineering there for over 20 years so I have a little inside info on it :-) Since it's probably not documented anywhere, here is probably more then anyone ever wanted to know about it….. ============== As mentioned, amplified versions started in the 70's mainly to be compatible with newer "transistorized" radios with low-z inputs. That was indeed at the beginning of the "power mic" craze. The first transistorized version was the T-UG8-D104. Later came the T-UG9-D104 (adding more switch contacts and wires), and the "Golden Eagle" which was a gold plated version done for the U.S. Bicentennial. It also featured an eagle engraved on the back of the D104 head. The Golden Eagle was so popular that the Silver Eagle version was created (the Golden Eagle was a limited edition). It was actually a T-UP9-D104 and added a push bar on the bottom as well on the side (Thus the "P" in the model number). There were both crystal (Rochelle salt) and ceramic versions of the D104 head, but the crystal version was always the most popular. At one time Astatic made some of the crystal elements in house (fun to watch), but only to supplement those made outside. The crystal element consisted of two slabs of Rochelle salt, graphite, and gold leads that were wrapped in foil and encased in epoxy. If you look at an old spec sheet, you will see the “foil wrapped” crystal mentioned. This was supposed to improve the life of the crystal. Rochelle salt has a high moisture content and after a period of time the crystal will dehydrate and no longer operate, so it must be well sealed and stored in a cool environment. The capsule had a bakelite housing and an aluminum diaphragm. Except for the newest versions, the diaphragm was attached with rubber cement and a special black wax that was made in-house. To tame the huge resonant peak at around 2.5KHz, a round disk of fiberglass insulation was glued to the front of the capsule. This stuff, which we called “Magic Puff” (because it worked so well), was actually aircraft insulation and either yellow or pink. Eventually sources for the crystal started to go away. The company changed hands in 87 and when I left in 2000, the only source for the crystals was from a small company in Austria. This company made the crystals for the two remaining crystal mics, the D104 and the various versions of the old JT-30 bullet harmonica mic, for a number of years. My understanding is that the company in Austria finally folded, and so production on those two mics finally ceased a couple of years ago. At one point I did play with creating a dynamic version of the D104, but the project never flew. The original head consisted of three pieces. If you wanted to try to put something like a ribbon inside one, the thing to do would be find two of the older heads and use the front screens to create a head with screens on the front and back. The newer heads are only two piece (The back and middle section were die cast as one part to save money). Robert |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
robert440 wrote:
At one point I did play with creating a dynamic version of the D104, but the project never flew. Imagine my chagrin. I just took apart my D104 to check the markings on the dynamic element I was sold in the '70s. It says MC-320, which, according to a quick web lookup, is a crystal element. blush This may be a good time to install that Heil element... -- St. John Utility is when you have one telephone, luxury is when you have two, opulence is when you have three -- and paradise is when you have none. -Doug Larson |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
In article , "St. John Smythe" wrote:
robert440 wrote: At one point I did play with creating a dynamic version of the D104, but the project never flew. Imagine my chagrin. I just took apart my D104 to check the markings on the dynamic element I was sold in the '70s. It says MC-320, which, according to a quick web lookup, is a crystal element. blush This may be a good time to install that Heil element... That would seem a simple and easy way out. just hope it sounds the same. Crystal do not last but ceramic does. The response of the D-104 is shown here..... http://www.astatic.com/cb/d104m6b.htm The handheld mic is supposed to have the same element, which is still available. I would call them. +22 dB at 3.2 kHz over 100 Hz. The Heil is very different. The classic D-104 sound is heard through a transmitter with cutoff's and compression, and lots of garbling!! greg |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article , "St. John Smythe" wrote: robert440 wrote: At one point I did play with creating a dynamic version of the D104, but the project never flew. Imagine my chagrin. I just took apart my D104 to check the markings on the dynamic element I was sold in the '70s. It says MC-320, which, according to a quick web lookup, is a crystal element. blush This may be a good time to install that Heil element... That would seem a simple and easy way out. just hope it sounds the same. Crystal do not last but ceramic does. The response of the D-104 is shown here..... http://www.astatic.com/cb/d104m6b.htm The handheld mic is supposed to have the same element, which is still available. I would call them. +22 dB at 3.2 kHz over 100 Hz. The Heil is very different. The classic D-104 sound is heard through a transmitter with cutoff's and compression, and lots of garbling!! One point, The amplifier probably lowers the 100 Hz response, so its +12 at 3.2 kHz. without the internal amp. greg |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
is shown here.....
http://www.astatic.com/cb/d104m6b.htm The handheld mic is supposed to have the same element, which is still available. It's not the same element (I was one of the designers of the mobile version). The ceramic version of the D104 element (I think it was MC-320c.) wouldn't fit in a hand held mic. However, the response of the mobile ceramic capsule is similar to it's big brother and probably could be used. |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
Mike Rivers wrote:
Just for reference, where does info on the mic come from? Given the built-in amplifier, it's obviously a recent version. Is it now manufactured or sold by a company other than Astatic? I was surprised not to find any data on the mic on the Astatic web sites other than a mention in their company history article. Used to have an old D104 with the amp inside and this setup easily goes back to the 70's. That's when I had mine. Used it with a couple of CB rigs. I believe the last version of the 104 made was a special one in gold. -- de Jack N2MPU FN20 Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CP Rail/D&H in N Proud NRA Life Member |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
Jack wrote: Used to have an old D104 with the amp inside and this setup easily goes back to the 70's. That's at least 15 years newer than the last one I had my hands on. They were orignally crystal mics, and that's the "real" D104. However, apparently recent models are just like any other mic as far as interfacing goes. And as far as sound goes, they do their best to retain the classic "communication mic" sound, which is in general completely undesirable for a studio mic. But as we all know well, there's an application somewhere for almost any crappy sound. But a D104 would never be my "go to" mic for anything other than recording taxi dispatcher monologue for a film - and I don't do that. |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
On Sun, 7 May 2006 13:29:36 UTC, "Mike Rivers"
wrote: Jack wrote: Used to have an old D104 with the amp inside and this setup easily goes back to the 70's. That's at least 15 years newer than the last one I had my hands on. They were orignally crystal mics, and that's the "real" D104. However, apparently recent models are just like any other mic as far as interfacing goes. And as far as sound goes, they do their best to retain the classic "communication mic" sound, which is in general completely undesirable for a studio mic. But as we all know well, there's an application somewhere for almost any crappy sound. But a D104 would never be my "go to" mic for anything other than recording taxi dispatcher monologue for a film - and I don't do that. ?? A good crystal element in a D-104 is clear and distortion-free in a general sense i.e. no kazoo, no grainy, no tunnel, with the crispness to override noise. A bad element can lead to what you are talking about. The recent Astatic elements are ceramic and I've yet to try them, my crystal still being good. Lively does not have to be 'crappy'. BTW, replace that built-in amp with a home-brew two-FET amp and you will have eliminated most of that objectionable sound. --- io |
recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
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recording using a Astatic D-104 mic
In article , wrote:
On Sun, 7 May 2006 13:29:36 UTC, "Mike Rivers" wrote: Jack wrote: Used to have an old D104 with the amp inside and this setup easily goes back to the 70's. That's at least 15 years newer than the last one I had my hands on. They were orignally crystal mics, and that's the "real" D104. However, apparently recent models are just like any other mic as far as interfacing goes. And as far as sound goes, they do their best to retain the classic "communication mic" sound, which is in general completely undesirable for a studio mic. But as we all know well, there's an application somewhere for almost any crappy sound. But a D104 would never be my "go to" mic for anything other than recording taxi dispatcher monologue for a film - and I don't do that. ?? A good crystal element in a D-104 is clear and distortion-free in a general sense i.e. no kazoo, no grainy, no tunnel, with the crispness to override noise. A bad element can lead to what you are talking about. The recent Astatic elements are ceramic and I've yet to try them, my crystal still being good. Lively does not have to be 'crappy'. BTW, replace that built-in amp with a home-brew two-FET amp and you will have eliminated most of that objectionable sound. I should have bought that Golden Eagle. I knew it.They are getting big bucks on Ebay. How about FET follower with a FET current source. You would have to attenuate the output since the element has very high output voltage. greg |
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