The Magnum wrote:
It's all down to interfering busybodies who demand that anything considered
harmless must be curtailed. Fumes from leaded solder especially in a
confined area can be considered highly toxic and if 'sniffed in' in large
amounts can send you loopy at best and kill you at worst.

Shirley the fumes are from the flux, not the solder?

RoHS is to address heavy metals in post-consumer waste re-entering the
environment via landfill sites.

"The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" wrote in
message ps.com...

The Magnum wrote:
It's all down to interfering busybodies who demand that anything
considered
harmless must be curtailed. Fumes from leaded solder especially in a
confined area can be considered highly toxic and if 'sniffed in' in
large
amounts can send you loopy at best and kill you at worst.

Shirley the fumes are from the flux, not the solder?

Yes there are fumes from the flux, obviously. The lead content in the fumes
from molten solder is still toxic. It is another of the reasons (apart from
cost) that you won't find lead pipe in new houses or lead based paint.

RoHS is to address heavy metals in post-consumer waste re-entering the
environment via landfill sites.

Yes it is. But I thought the waste side of the proposal was covered by the
WEEE regulations and the RoSH covered the fact it is a Hazardous material to
use .. period.(Please excuse the crass Americanism ;o)

73'
Graham
--
-.-. -... / .-. .- -.. .. ---

Radio is only a Hobby. Don't let it rule your life...

73/51 - Graham, 26-Golf Charlie-19 (www.open-channel.co.uk)

The Magnum wrote:
"The Radio Amateur Formerly Known As G4KFK" wrote in
message ps.com...
The Magnum wrote:
It's all down to interfering busybodies who demand that anything
considered
harmless must be curtailed. Fumes from leaded solder especially in a
confined area can be considered highly toxic and if 'sniffed in' in
large
amounts can send you loopy at best and kill you at worst.
Shirley the fumes are from the flux, not the solder?

Yes there are fumes from the flux, obviously. The lead content in the fumes
from molten solder is still toxic. It is another of the reasons (apart from
cost) that you won't find lead pipe in new houses or lead based paint.


except that there is NO LEAD CONTENT IN THE FLUX FUMES.
Lead does not vaporize until much higher temperature than soldering
temperatures...

RoHS is to address heavy metals in post-consumer waste re-entering the
environment via landfill sites.

Yes it is. But I thought the waste side of the proposal was covered by the
WEEE regulations and the RoSH covered the fact it is a Hazardous material to
use .. period.(Please excuse the crass Americanism ;o)

73'
Graham

"litle ole me" ""nobody \"@ nowhere.com" wrote in message
...

except that there is NO LEAD CONTENT IN THE FLUX FUMES.
Lead does not vaporize until much higher temperature than soldering
temperatures...

Now are you seriously trying to tell me there are NO traces of lead in the
flux fumes? Are you certain about that?

73'
Graham
--
-.-. -... / .-. .- -.. .. ---

Radio is only a Hobby. Don't let it rule your life...

73/51 - Graham, 26-Golf Charlie-19 (www.open-channel.co.uk)

Now are you seriously trying to tell me there are NO traces of lead in the
flux fumes? Are you certain about that?


I think you should ask Nick about that

From what I hear he just looks at solder and it runs

No doubt because of the heat

DieSea

"DieSea" wrote in message
...



Now are you seriously trying to tell me there are NO traces of lead in
the
flux fumes? Are you certain about that?


I think you should ask Nick about that

From what I hear he just looks at solder and it runs

No doubt because of the heat

DieSea


LOL.

In all seriousness though there must be an element of lead in the fumes no
matter what the supposed vaporisation level of the solder is. As in much the
same way as harmful levels of lead were found in water running through lead
pipes. These pipes weren't at vaporisation temperature to pass small amounts
into the water running through it. Likewise the flux core in the lead solder
would 'surely' have a concentration of lead in it no matter how
insignificant an amount it might be.

73'
Graham
--
-.-. -... / .-. .- -.. .. ---

Radio is only a Hobby. Don't let it rule your life...

73/51 - Graham, 26-Golf Charlie-19 (www.open-channel.co.uk)

The Magnum wrote:
"DieSea" wrote in message
...

Now are you seriously trying to tell me there are NO traces of lead in
the
flux fumes? Are you certain about that?

I think you should ask Nick about that

From what I hear he just looks at solder and it runs

No doubt because of the heat

DieSea


LOL.

In all seriousness though there must be an element of lead in the fumes no
matter what the supposed vaporisation level of the solder is. As in much the
same way as harmful levels of lead were found in water running through lead
pipes. These pipes weren't at vaporisation temperature to pass small amounts
into the water running through it. Likewise the flux core in the lead solder
would 'surely' have a concentration of lead in it no matter how
insignificant an amount it might be.

73'
Graham

yes, that would be called leaching, and lead does not leach into the
air. it would also be due to water 'erosion' of the solder. it IS
rather soft..

yes, I am serious. no lead in the solder fumes.

if there was lead in the solder fumes, then most every ham end
electronic tinkerer would have serious health problems. (hey, wait a
minute... ;- just kidding. no lead in solder fumes.)

In article , litle ole me
writes

except that there is NO LEAD CONTENT IN THE FLUX FUMES.
Lead does not vaporize until much higher temperature than soldering
temperatures...

There will be lead in the fumes; molecules regularly detach themselves
and float off into the air from liquids (and can also do so for some
solids under certain conditions) at well below the vaporization
temperature, perhaps you have not noticed that water at room temperature
will evaporate, remember: molten is a liquid. This is why mercury spills
are such a problem, and why several years ago laboratories (schools
etc.) had to incur expense having floors lifted and mercury removed by
special vacuum cleaners, and using mercury vapour detectors to variety
'safe' levels. A few weeks ago I had to clean a spill caused by a broken
thermometer from a cupboard.
--
Ian G8ILZ

Prometheus wrote:
In article , litle ole me
writes

except that there is NO LEAD CONTENT IN THE FLUX FUMES.
Lead does not vaporize until much higher temperature than soldering
temperatures...

There will be lead in the fumes; molecules regularly detach themselves
and float off into the air from liquids (and can also do so for some
solids under certain conditions) at well below the vaporization
temperature, perhaps you have not noticed that water at room temperature
will evaporate, remember: molten is a liquid. This is why mercury spills
are such a problem, and why several years ago laboratories (schools
etc.) had to incur expense having floors lifted and mercury removed by
special vacuum cleaners, and using mercury vapour detectors to variety
'safe' levels. A few weeks ago I had to clean a spill caused by a broken
thermometer from a cupboard.
so, what protection should we use when soldering? how much lead would
have been ingested?

Having worked in a production and engineering environment for many
years, I would think that were there any risk of lead in solder fumes,
there would be HUGE guidelines from the EPA. but, there are none. we had
fans and filters to control the flux fumes, which were quite pungent.)

in your logic above, chemicals that are far fro similar are being
equated and their properties simplified. water and mercury are liquid at
room temp.
mercury, like lead does not evaporate at soldering temperatures.

(for ref: vapor pressure of water at 100C is 760 MM, or 100X the
below. try putting 37 C or even 200C in the math below, and I think the
answer will be that the vap press is minute and unmeasurable.)

_____
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v26/i6/p851_1
Vapor pressure of lead, 1118° to 1235°C was found to vary from 5.70 mm
to 19.70 mm in good agreement with the equation
log10p(mm)=-10372/T-log10T-11.35, which also fits the best results of
Egerton at lower temperatures. The heat of vaporization of lead at its
melting point is calculated to be 46,300 cal. The chemical constant
comes out -1.40 which is close to the value -1.59 computed from the
quantum theory of monatomic gases.
____

no one I know solders at 1118 degrees c or higher?

water has a vapor pressure FAR lower than lead. please realize that the
vapor pressure of lead and the vapor pressure of water are NOT close in
value.


by the above logic, my desk is evaporating. I know ice can evaporate.
how do can the the number of formica molecules floating out of the
kitchen counter be calculated or measured?

here is a bit from wikipedia.

Vapor pressure is the pressure of a vapor in equilibrium with its
non-vapor phases. Most often the term is used to describe a liquid's
tendency to evaporate. It is the tendency of molecules and atoms to
escape from a liquid or a solid. At any given temperature, for a
particular substance, there is a pressure at which the vapor of that
substance is in equilibrium with its liquid or solid forms. This is the
equilibrium vapor pressure or saturation vapor pressure of that
substance at that temperature. The term vapor pressure is often
understood to mean the saturation vapor pressure. A substance with a
high vapor pressure at normal temperatures is often referred to as
volatile. The higher the vapor pressure of a material at a given
temperature, the lower the boiling point.



the end.

There may not have been any EPA guidelines in the past ... but there are
now. I see them every day, all solder stations in our plant haves mandated
exhaust facilities - even labs. Particulates are more of a concern rather
than vapors.

Roger

"litle ole me" ""nobody \"@ nowhere.com" wrote in message
.. .
Prometheus wrote:
In article , litle ole me
writes

except that there is NO LEAD CONTENT IN THE FLUX FUMES.
Lead does not vaporize until much higher temperature than soldering
temperatures...

There will be lead in the fumes; molecules regularly detach themselves
and float off into the air from liquids (and can also do so for some
solids under certain conditions) at well below the vaporization
temperature, perhaps you have not noticed that water at room temperature
will evaporate, remember: molten is a liquid. This is why mercury spills
are such a problem, and why several years ago laboratories (schools etc.)
had to incur expense having floors lifted and mercury removed by special
vacuum cleaners, and using mercury vapour detectors to variety 'safe'
levels. A few weeks ago I had to clean a spill caused by a broken
thermometer from a cupboard.
so, what protection should we use when soldering? how much lead would
have been ingested?

Having worked in a production and engineering environment for many years,
I would think that were there any risk of lead in solder fumes, there
would be HUGE guidelines from the EPA. but, there are none. we had fans
and filters to control the flux fumes, which were quite pungent.)

in your logic above, chemicals that are far fro similar are being equated
and their properties simplified. water and mercury are liquid at room
temp.
mercury, like lead does not evaporate at soldering temperatures.

(for ref: vapor pressure of water at 100C is 760 MM, or 100X the below.
try putting 37 C or even 200C in the math below, and I think the answer
will be that the vap press is minute and unmeasurable.)

_____
http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PR/v26/i6/p851_1
Vapor pressure of lead, 1118° to 1235°C was found to vary from 5.70 mm to
19.70 mm in good agreement with the equation
log10p(mm)=-10372/T-log10T-11.35, which also fits the best results of
Egerton at lower temperatures. The heat of vaporization of lead at its
melting point is calculated to be 46,300 cal. The chemical constant comes
out -1.40 which is close to the value -1.59 computed from the quantum
theory of monatomic gases.
____

no one I know solders at 1118 degrees c or higher?

water has a vapor pressure FAR lower than lead. please realize that the
vapor pressure of lead and the vapor pressure of water are NOT close in
value.


by the above logic, my desk is evaporating. I know ice can evaporate.
how do can the the number of formica molecules floating out of the kitchen
counter be calculated or measured?

here is a bit from wikipedia.

Vapor pressure is the pressure of a vapor in equilibrium with its
non-vapor phases. Most often the term is used to describe a liquid's
tendency to evaporate. It is the tendency of molecules and atoms to escape
from a liquid or a solid. At any given temperature, for a particular
substance, there is a pressure at which the vapor of that substance is in
equilibrium with its liquid or solid forms. This is the equilibrium vapor
pressure or saturation vapor pressure of that substance at that
temperature. The term vapor pressure is often understood to mean the
saturation vapor pressure. A substance with a high vapor pressure at
normal temperatures is often referred to as volatile. The higher the vapor
pressure of a material at a given temperature, the lower the boiling
point.



the end.