APRS Safety Question
 

Hi all

I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many
Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to
assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen.

This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an
experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with.

When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying
to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could
cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS
safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be
assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a
risk of causing a fire.

Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any,
are taken to deal with this problem?

cheers Peter

peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:17:

I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many
Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to
assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen.

This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an
experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with.

When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying
to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could
cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS
safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be
assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a
risk of causing a fire.

Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any,
are taken to deal with this problem?

This works well for me - Lean slightly forward, apply gentle pressure
with index finger to button on radio labelled PWR.

--
Roger Barker, G4IDE -
For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com
For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk

peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:17:

I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many
Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to
assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen.

This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an
experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with.

When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying
to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could
cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS
safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be
assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a
risk of causing a fire.

Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any,
are taken to deal with this problem?

This works well for me - Lean slightly forward, apply gentle pressure
with index finger to button on radio labelled PWR.

--
Roger Barker, G4IDE -
For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com
For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk

Droll... very droll...

Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you
transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump
gets toasted.

Seriously how are most mobile packet setups wired? Are they wired into the
ignition which would turn the radio off when you turn off the engine? The
problem with this is that if someone steals your car and parks it somewhere
you won't be able to determine its location.

I'd be keen to hear how people wire and use their mobile setups.

Thanks Peter


"Roger" wrote in message
...
peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:17:

I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that
many
Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to
assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen.

This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I
hope an
experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with.

When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs
saying
to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could
cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make
APRS
safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can
be
assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run
a
risk of causing a fire.

Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if
any,
are taken to deal with this problem?

This works well for me - Lean slightly forward, apply gentle pressure
with index finger to button on radio labelled PWR.

--
Roger Barker, G4IDE -
For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com
For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk

Droll... very droll...

Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you
transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump
gets toasted.

Seriously how are most mobile packet setups wired? Are they wired into the
ignition which would turn the radio off when you turn off the engine? The
problem with this is that if someone steals your car and parks it somewhere
you won't be able to determine its location.

I'd be keen to hear how people wire and use their mobile setups.

Thanks Peter


"Roger" wrote in message
...
peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:17:

I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that
many
Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to
assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen.

This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I
hope an
experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with.

When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs
saying
to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could
cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make
APRS
safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can
be
assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run
a
risk of causing a fire.

Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if
any,
are taken to deal with this problem?

This works well for me - Lean slightly forward, apply gentle pressure
with index finger to button on radio labelled PWR.

--
Roger Barker, G4IDE -
For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com
For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk

peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:55:

Droll... very droll...

Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you
transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump
gets toasted.

Then switch it off before you go into the filling station.

Seriously how are most mobile packet setups wired? Are they wired into the
ignition which would turn the radio off when you turn off the engine? The
problem with this is that if someone steals your car and parks it somewhere
you won't be able to determine its location.

I think you may be misunderstanding something - Most mobile APRS
installations use a transceiver and a normal ham antenna, they are not
clandestine installations. So if someone steals your car, unless they
are stupid, they will very probably switch it off.

However, wiring it via the ignition does not solve your perceived
problem, unless you are in the habit of switching off the engine and
coasting up to the pump!

[snip]

--
Roger Barker, G4IDE -
For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com
For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk

peter berrett wrote on 07/02/2004 10:55:

Droll... very droll...

Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you
transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump
gets toasted.

Then switch it off before you go into the filling station.

Seriously how are most mobile packet setups wired? Are they wired into the
ignition which would turn the radio off when you turn off the engine? The
problem with this is that if someone steals your car and parks it somewhere
you won't be able to determine its location.

I think you may be misunderstanding something - Most mobile APRS
installations use a transceiver and a normal ham antenna, they are not
clandestine installations. So if someone steals your car, unless they
are stupid, they will very probably switch it off.

However, wiring it via the ignition does not solve your perceived
problem, unless you are in the habit of switching off the engine and
coasting up to the pump!

[snip]

--
Roger Barker, G4IDE -
For UI-View go to - http://www.UI-View.com
For WinPack go to - http://www.peaksys.co.uk

In article ,
peter berrett wrote:
(snip)
Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you
transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump
gets toasted.
(snip)

How would this happen? Could there really be sparking from the aerial
or something (which you think you'd notice because it might interfere
with your radio operation) or could it just get really hot? Is the
idea that the EM radiation alone could cause ignition? I just have a
hard time understanding this risk - the only blowing-up instances I'm
aware of involved naked flames, yet you'd have thought that cars were
inherently full of spark potential anyway being full of metal bits
with high-current wiring.

-- Mark

In article ,
peter berrett wrote:
(snip)
Trouble is that there is still a risk that just as pull into the station you
transmit a signal and somebody filling up on the other side of your pump
gets toasted.
(snip)

How would this happen? Could there really be sparking from the aerial
or something (which you think you'd notice because it might interfere
with your radio operation) or could it just get really hot? Is the
idea that the EM radiation alone could cause ignition? I just have a
hard time understanding this risk - the only blowing-up instances I'm
aware of involved naked flames, yet you'd have thought that cars were
inherently full of spark potential anyway being full of metal bits
with high-current wiring.

-- Mark

The issue of filling station fires and explosions from cell phone use
has been extensively investigated per what I think was a complete PBS
program on this that I watched. In short, at cell phone power levels,
they were totally unable to provoke explosions or fires from arcing or
whatever.


What they did discover is that the real problem with explosions and
fires at filling stations, other than the obvious like smoking and other
open flames, was in the static issue from people sliding off car seats!
The build-up of static electricity on the person's body getting out of
the vehicle and the resultant spark when they discharged to whatever the
next touched, or brushed, was the very surprising and real danger of
explosions and fires in filling station accidents.


And on another note, per my long ago training in aviation safety as a
long time flight instructor here in the USA, ambient temperature is
related to this in an interesting way. As the temperature goes down,
way down, the gasoline vapor ignition hazard goes down and the jet fuel
hazard goes up! Haven't thought about extending that thought to modern
auto-life. But one would think that if you are way down in temperature,
a diesel vehicle owner would be more at risk from swishing across a neat
cloth seat than a gasoline vehicle owner. Per the article seen, at
cell phone power levels and around that, one can pretty well forget
causing havoc with them. I'm not passing judgement here, wouldn't yap
on a device in a service station anyway. Just passing on what I saw on TV.


W5WQN


peter berrett wrote:

Hi all

I have been looking at the use of APRS over packet radio and noted that many
Amateurs now have mobile installations in their cars both for fun and to
assist in tracking the vehicle should it get stolen.

This is quite an appealing idea however I do have one concern that I hope an
experienced mobile APRS user could assist me with.

When one visits petrol/gas stations here in Australia one sees signs saying
to switch off one's mobile phone as the electromagnetic radiation could
cause a spark and ignite fuel vapour. It has made me wonder how to make APRS
safe so that should you be filling up your car at a gas station you can be
assured that a regular APRS update from your mobile APRS setup won't run a
risk of causing a fire.

Have APRS users considered this possibility and what precaustions, if any,
are taken to deal with this problem?

cheers Peter










--


-- Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther