Greetings, all.

I know it's not considered politically correct to flame a DXpedition.
I'm certainly not singling out the current XF4IH operation for this
criticism, but in the last year or so I've noticed a number of
somewhat high-profile DXpeditions have been mounted that were sorely
lacking in the basic on-air skills needed when operating from a
most-wanted entity. I'm not referring to small-scale operations by a
group of people on vacation, but rather some of the large
multi-station operations that have graced the airwaves of late.

These are DXpeditions that have started with wonderful intentions,
have had good funding and with many people who have happily given
their time and energy needed to mount them. While they are absolutely
to be thanked for their efforts, to be sure, many also rightfully
deserve some sharp criticism for the following transgressions:

* No enough power/ERP to be heard in their target areas
* No firm understanding of propagation
* Trying to work a killer pileup simplex
* Trying to work a killer pileup only up 5 (SSB), not over a range
* Inexperienced operators (or downright LIDS in one case last year)
* Not working by continents or "by the numbers" when things are bad
* Or, if they do, taking calls from stations calling "out of turn"
* Frequently not QSX on 40M SSB for the USA.
* Not QSX in the US General portion of the bands once in a while.
* Poor planning or logistics.

If it's the goal of the DXpedition to give a "new one" to as many hams
as possible (as most of the "Most Wanted" entity operations should
be), then they should be operating with good yagis and high-power on
20/15 around the clock, CW and SSB. K1B knew this. AH3D knew it. TI9M
knew it. PW0T knew it. XR0X knew it. Ever since these operations,
however, few of the Most Wanted operations seem to grasp this simple
concept.

I can understand if one of the stated goals is to give the entity to
as many as possible on the WARC bands or Low bands or on digital
modes--fine--that's how they're billing themselves and I have no
complaint when that's the case. But when a team goes into an operation
with the goal of giving the entity to as many as possible and their
operating style or procedures go contrary to that stated mission, then
frankly I feel gyped as one who's invested substantial time and effort
to work them.

Martti Laine, in his book "Where do we go Next?" compares DXpeditions
to live theatrical performances, and I think this is a very valid
comparison, at least to a point. It takes a grand sum of money to
mount a performance like this, the performers are likely skilled in
their craft before taking the stage and the audience is expecting a
good performance. If the actors and stage crew put on a good show, the
audience goes home happy. If the DXpeditioners are seasoned operators
who understand how to "play the game," the Deserving will happily work
their "new one" on many different bands and be happy.

But when you have inexperienced players on this international stage
who, not through any malice (we would hope) but just by not being
savvy enough to work through piles of 60,000 callsigns efficiently,
they can cause more ill-will than goodwill...except, perhaps, amongst
those who are lucky enough to get through from their mountaintop
locations with stacked yagis and kiloWatts.

For those who would angrily reply "if you don't like it, mount a
dxpedition yourself" I would simply ask that if you didn't like the
recent production of Richard III or My Fair Lady, would you feel
equally compelled to rent a theatre and take acting and stage
production lessons yourself? No, you would feel unsatisfied, and
perhaps angry for seeing your favourite play mangled by a poor cast or
with bad staging, etc, and then hope the next revival of it will be
done better.

So it is here. I look with longing and great hope to 3B9C (though I
don't need them for a new one), the hoped-for YV0, next month's
Clipperton Island excursion, Banaba and others in the hopes that they
may have top-notch operating skills and reasonable signals for the
current somewhat-poor propagation conditions.

73 de Peter, W2IRT
(ex-AB2NZ, VE3THX)

Please reply to Double-you Two Eye Are Tee at Arrl.net

That's an easy question to answer.

If you work them, NOTHING is wrong with them.

If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.

Obviously, you didn't.

73, Jim KH2D

That's an easy question to answer.

If you work them, NOTHING is wrong with them.

If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.

Obviously, you didn't.

73, Jim KH2D

said :

That's an easy question to answer.
If you work them, NOTHING is wrong with them.
If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.
Obviously, you didn't.

Actually, that's not quite correct. I worked all of the operations I'm
referring to on at least one band/mode, with the exception of 3C0V.
Given the problems they faced, I don't know if there is any blame on
their part, so I won't comment.

If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.
I respectfully disagree with that entire premise. There are many
DXpeditions I've worked whose operations have been terrible. Yes, I'm
thankful they heard me, yes I'm thankful that they spent their time
and money to go, etc. But that doesn't mean that I thik they're all
first-class operators.

Here's one example that drives me nuts. If they're calling for North
America only, where I'm situated, and they're going by numbers in the
early days. Some EuroLids get in there and start shouting down
everybody, and don't even bother with the correct number -- i.e. DX
wants North America, number 2 only, and a gaggle of I, EA, CT, ON, OZ,
etc, stations with every number under the sun calls in. That's bad
enough. THEN, the DX station calls a loud EA5 when he was asking for
W/VE 2's, sorry...I think that's just a plain old bad operator.
Actually, TWO bad operators.

In the ARRL-SSB contest last Sunday afternoon, I listened to EA9IE,
Juan, handle a world-wide 20M pileup just spectacularly. He took a few
seconds to tell off the lids who were calling out of turn. It just
took about 4 or 5 and they got the message, and an otherwise
extra-strength-Tylenol class pileup became very manageable. Kudos,
Juan. Bob Furzer's done it too, as as Martti and members of his teams,
albeit each in their own fashion. When I eventually become part of a
DXpedition (money's too tight for the moment), I'll do the same. If I
want 5s only, only fives will be called. Insistent 8s and 9s will be
ignored or politely advised that they will not be called upon.

If an operator behind the mic or key happens to be from Upper Dipthong
and he favours other Upper Dipthongians over anybody else who is
calling in their proper turn, or when asked, well, sorry...that's
another Bad Operator.

OK, anybody can miss a few here and there, and I'll not aim my
displeasure on an operator who's having a Really Bad Day and makes a
few mistakes. We're human. We can be forgiven for that kind of thing.
I'm talking about operations that *regularly* do these things.

I'm talking also about operations that simply don't understand the
concept of going split over a range of frequencies, especially in the
first few days of a major operation to a rare entity. Q rates become 1
or 2 a minute, bedlam reigns and ill-will is the order of the day.

Other operators simply don't have enough skill with the English
language to be part of an operation whose main operating language is
English. Sorry, no offence, but it should be incumbant on a phone op
behind the mic to a most-wanted DXpedition to have a reasonably-strong
command of the English language. I'm not talking about a Shakespearean
stage actor here, but just someone who can converse readily in
English. I doff my hat to the big International operations who bring
on board at least one JA operator to work the inevitable JA pileups.
Many EU-originated operations don't do this for stateside hams.

My reason for posting these messages isn't to direct anger toward any
one operation. I'm hoping DXpeditioners or organizers of future trips
may possibly obtain one or two clues that they never might have
thought of otherwise, which may lessen the frustration of hams the
world over who want a crack at them.


73 de Peter, W2IRT
(ex-AB2NZ, VE3THX)

Please reply to Double-you Two Eye Are Tee at Arrl.net

said :

That's an easy question to answer.
If you work them, NOTHING is wrong with them.
If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.
Obviously, you didn't.

Actually, that's not quite correct. I worked all of the operations I'm
referring to on at least one band/mode, with the exception of 3C0V.
Given the problems they faced, I don't know if there is any blame on
their part, so I won't comment.

If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.
I respectfully disagree with that entire premise. There are many
DXpeditions I've worked whose operations have been terrible. Yes, I'm
thankful they heard me, yes I'm thankful that they spent their time
and money to go, etc. But that doesn't mean that I thik they're all
first-class operators.

Here's one example that drives me nuts. If they're calling for North
America only, where I'm situated, and they're going by numbers in the
early days. Some EuroLids get in there and start shouting down
everybody, and don't even bother with the correct number -- i.e. DX
wants North America, number 2 only, and a gaggle of I, EA, CT, ON, OZ,
etc, stations with every number under the sun calls in. That's bad
enough. THEN, the DX station calls a loud EA5 when he was asking for
W/VE 2's, sorry...I think that's just a plain old bad operator.
Actually, TWO bad operators.

In the ARRL-SSB contest last Sunday afternoon, I listened to EA9IE,
Juan, handle a world-wide 20M pileup just spectacularly. He took a few
seconds to tell off the lids who were calling out of turn. It just
took about 4 or 5 and they got the message, and an otherwise
extra-strength-Tylenol class pileup became very manageable. Kudos,
Juan. Bob Furzer's done it too, as as Martti and members of his teams,
albeit each in their own fashion. When I eventually become part of a
DXpedition (money's too tight for the moment), I'll do the same. If I
want 5s only, only fives will be called. Insistent 8s and 9s will be
ignored or politely advised that they will not be called upon.

If an operator behind the mic or key happens to be from Upper Dipthong
and he favours other Upper Dipthongians over anybody else who is
calling in their proper turn, or when asked, well, sorry...that's
another Bad Operator.

OK, anybody can miss a few here and there, and I'll not aim my
displeasure on an operator who's having a Really Bad Day and makes a
few mistakes. We're human. We can be forgiven for that kind of thing.
I'm talking about operations that *regularly* do these things.

I'm talking also about operations that simply don't understand the
concept of going split over a range of frequencies, especially in the
first few days of a major operation to a rare entity. Q rates become 1
or 2 a minute, bedlam reigns and ill-will is the order of the day.

Other operators simply don't have enough skill with the English
language to be part of an operation whose main operating language is
English. Sorry, no offence, but it should be incumbant on a phone op
behind the mic to a most-wanted DXpedition to have a reasonably-strong
command of the English language. I'm not talking about a Shakespearean
stage actor here, but just someone who can converse readily in
English. I doff my hat to the big International operations who bring
on board at least one JA operator to work the inevitable JA pileups.
Many EU-originated operations don't do this for stateside hams.

My reason for posting these messages isn't to direct anger toward any
one operation. I'm hoping DXpeditioners or organizers of future trips
may possibly obtain one or two clues that they never might have
thought of otherwise, which may lessen the frustration of hams the
world over who want a crack at them.


73 de Peter, W2IRT
(ex-AB2NZ, VE3THX)

Please reply to Double-you Two Eye Are Tee at Arrl.net

"Peter Dougherty" wrote in message
...
said :

That's an easy question to answer.
If you work them, NOTHING is wrong with them.
If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.
Obviously, you didn't.

Actually, that's not quite correct. I worked all of the operations I'm
referring to on at least one band/mode, with the exception of 3C0V.
Given the problems they faced, I don't know if there is any blame on
their part, so I won't comment.

If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.
I respectfully disagree with that entire premise. There are many
DXpeditions I've worked whose operations have been terrible. Yes, I'm
thankful they heard me, yes I'm thankful that they spent their time
and money to go, etc. But that doesn't mean that I thik they're all
first-class operators.

Here's one example that drives me nuts. If they're calling for North
America only, where I'm situated, and they're going by numbers in the
early days. Some EuroLids get in there and start shouting down
everybody, and don't even bother with the correct number -- i.e. DX
wants North America, number 2 only, and a gaggle of I, EA, CT, ON, OZ,
etc, stations with every number under the sun calls in. That's bad
enough. THEN, the DX station calls a loud EA5 when he was asking for
W/VE 2's, sorry...I think that's just a plain old bad operator.
Actually, TWO bad operators.

In the ARRL-SSB contest last Sunday afternoon, I listened to EA9IE,
Juan, handle a world-wide 20M pileup just spectacularly. He took a few
seconds to tell off the lids who were calling out of turn. It just
took about 4 or 5 and they got the message, and an otherwise
extra-strength-Tylenol class pileup became very manageable. Kudos,
Juan. Bob Furzer's done it too, as as Martti and members of his teams,
albeit each in their own fashion. When I eventually become part of a
DXpedition (money's too tight for the moment), I'll do the same. If I
want 5s only, only fives will be called. Insistent 8s and 9s will be
ignored or politely advised that they will not be called upon.

If an operator behind the mic or key happens to be from Upper Dipthong
and he favours other Upper Dipthongians over anybody else who is
calling in their proper turn, or when asked, well, sorry...that's
another Bad Operator.

OK, anybody can miss a few here and there, and I'll not aim my
displeasure on an operator who's having a Really Bad Day and makes a
few mistakes. We're human. We can be forgiven for that kind of thing.
I'm talking about operations that *regularly* do these things.

I'm talking also about operations that simply don't understand the
concept of going split over a range of frequencies, especially in the
first few days of a major operation to a rare entity. Q rates become 1
or 2 a minute, bedlam reigns and ill-will is the order of the day.

Other operators simply don't have enough skill with the English
language to be part of an operation whose main operating language is
English. Sorry, no offence, but it should be incumbant on a phone op
behind the mic to a most-wanted DXpedition to have a reasonably-strong
command of the English language. I'm not talking about a Shakespearean
stage actor here, but just someone who can converse readily in
English. I doff my hat to the big International operations who bring
on board at least one JA operator to work the inevitable JA pileups.
Many EU-originated operations don't do this for stateside hams.

My reason for posting these messages isn't to direct anger toward any
one operation. I'm hoping DXpeditioners or organizers of future trips
may possibly obtain one or two clues that they never might have
thought of otherwise, which may lessen the frustration of hams the
world over who want a crack at them.


I've always figured that whatever the ops do is ok. They give me a
chance to work something new. Always rather work 'em on CW,
but I'll do SSB if needed, and other modes given no other choice.

Is nice when Martti is on the key, because after 50 years I know
what he wants to hear and where he will be listening, and I can
work him quick and get out of the way ;-)

If it is someone who can only copy 10 WPM and listens only on his
own frequency, I'll call him at 10 WPM on his own frequency, but
ONLY when I'm pretty sure he can hear me. Relax, take it easy,
don't panic, listen long enough to be SURE what the op wants ...
then give it to them.

Worked for XF4IH on six band/modes so far.
Would have been 4 more, but they have not (yet) been listening
in the general portions of some bands.

--

... Hank

http://horedson.home.att.net
http://w0rli.home.att.net

"Peter Dougherty" wrote in message
...
said :

That's an easy question to answer.
If you work them, NOTHING is wrong with them.
If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.
Obviously, you didn't.

Actually, that's not quite correct. I worked all of the operations I'm
referring to on at least one band/mode, with the exception of 3C0V.
Given the problems they faced, I don't know if there is any blame on
their part, so I won't comment.

If you don't work them, EVERYTHING is wrong with them.
I respectfully disagree with that entire premise. There are many
DXpeditions I've worked whose operations have been terrible. Yes, I'm
thankful they heard me, yes I'm thankful that they spent their time
and money to go, etc. But that doesn't mean that I thik they're all
first-class operators.

Here's one example that drives me nuts. If they're calling for North
America only, where I'm situated, and they're going by numbers in the
early days. Some EuroLids get in there and start shouting down
everybody, and don't even bother with the correct number -- i.e. DX
wants North America, number 2 only, and a gaggle of I, EA, CT, ON, OZ,
etc, stations with every number under the sun calls in. That's bad
enough. THEN, the DX station calls a loud EA5 when he was asking for
W/VE 2's, sorry...I think that's just a plain old bad operator.
Actually, TWO bad operators.

In the ARRL-SSB contest last Sunday afternoon, I listened to EA9IE,
Juan, handle a world-wide 20M pileup just spectacularly. He took a few
seconds to tell off the lids who were calling out of turn. It just
took about 4 or 5 and they got the message, and an otherwise
extra-strength-Tylenol class pileup became very manageable. Kudos,
Juan. Bob Furzer's done it too, as as Martti and members of his teams,
albeit each in their own fashion. When I eventually become part of a
DXpedition (money's too tight for the moment), I'll do the same. If I
want 5s only, only fives will be called. Insistent 8s and 9s will be
ignored or politely advised that they will not be called upon.

If an operator behind the mic or key happens to be from Upper Dipthong
and he favours other Upper Dipthongians over anybody else who is
calling in their proper turn, or when asked, well, sorry...that's
another Bad Operator.

OK, anybody can miss a few here and there, and I'll not aim my
displeasure on an operator who's having a Really Bad Day and makes a
few mistakes. We're human. We can be forgiven for that kind of thing.
I'm talking about operations that *regularly* do these things.

I'm talking also about operations that simply don't understand the
concept of going split over a range of frequencies, especially in the
first few days of a major operation to a rare entity. Q rates become 1
or 2 a minute, bedlam reigns and ill-will is the order of the day.

Other operators simply don't have enough skill with the English
language to be part of an operation whose main operating language is
English. Sorry, no offence, but it should be incumbant on a phone op
behind the mic to a most-wanted DXpedition to have a reasonably-strong
command of the English language. I'm not talking about a Shakespearean
stage actor here, but just someone who can converse readily in
English. I doff my hat to the big International operations who bring
on board at least one JA operator to work the inevitable JA pileups.
Many EU-originated operations don't do this for stateside hams.

My reason for posting these messages isn't to direct anger toward any
one operation. I'm hoping DXpeditioners or organizers of future trips
may possibly obtain one or two clues that they never might have
thought of otherwise, which may lessen the frustration of hams the
world over who want a crack at them.


I've always figured that whatever the ops do is ok. They give me a
chance to work something new. Always rather work 'em on CW,
but I'll do SSB if needed, and other modes given no other choice.

Is nice when Martti is on the key, because after 50 years I know
what he wants to hear and where he will be listening, and I can
work him quick and get out of the way ;-)

If it is someone who can only copy 10 WPM and listens only on his
own frequency, I'll call him at 10 WPM on his own frequency, but
ONLY when I'm pretty sure he can hear me. Relax, take it easy,
don't panic, listen long enough to be SURE what the op wants ...
then give it to them.

Worked for XF4IH on six band/modes so far.
Would have been 4 more, but they have not (yet) been listening
in the general portions of some bands.

--

... Hank

http://horedson.home.att.net
http://w0rli.home.att.net

On 13 Mar 2004 18:57:12 -0600, Peter Dougherty
wrote:

My reason for posting these messages isn't to direct anger toward any
one operation. I'm hoping DXpeditioners or organizers of future trips
may possibly obtain one or two clues that they never might have
thought of otherwise, which may lessen the frustration of hams the
world over who want a crack at them.

I'm afraid that's probably wishful thinking at best. We have been
complaining about DXpeditions for years, and that doesn't seem to have
improved the overall quality at all.

Fact is, the people who go aren't necessarily only the Pro's. They are
the people who want to go, who can afford to go, and who don't have
other obligations that keep them from going.

As far as the Dipthongians only working other Dipthongians, that's the
way life is. They paid for the trip with Dipthongian Pesos, so they
should be able to work whomever they please.

One really silly notion you need to get rid of that may change your
perspective on the whole game is the 'fact' that people go on
DXpeditions to work the world, to help the little guys with 100 watts
and a dipole get a 'new' one. That's crap. People go on DXpeditions
because they think it's fun to go, they enjoy the adrenalin rush at
the other end of the pileup - they do it for them, not for you or
me.......

Look up 'deserving' in the dictionary, and I'm sure you'll find it
says nothing about ham radio.

73, Jim KH2D

On 13 Mar 2004 18:57:12 -0600, Peter Dougherty
wrote:

My reason for posting these messages isn't to direct anger toward any
one operation. I'm hoping DXpeditioners or organizers of future trips
may possibly obtain one or two clues that they never might have
thought of otherwise, which may lessen the frustration of hams the
world over who want a crack at them.

I'm afraid that's probably wishful thinking at best. We have been
complaining about DXpeditions for years, and that doesn't seem to have
improved the overall quality at all.

Fact is, the people who go aren't necessarily only the Pro's. They are
the people who want to go, who can afford to go, and who don't have
other obligations that keep them from going.

As far as the Dipthongians only working other Dipthongians, that's the
way life is. They paid for the trip with Dipthongian Pesos, so they
should be able to work whomever they please.

One really silly notion you need to get rid of that may change your
perspective on the whole game is the 'fact' that people go on
DXpeditions to work the world, to help the little guys with 100 watts
and a dipole get a 'new' one. That's crap. People go on DXpeditions
because they think it's fun to go, they enjoy the adrenalin rush at
the other end of the pileup - they do it for them, not for you or
me.......

Look up 'deserving' in the dictionary, and I'm sure you'll find it
says nothing about ham radio.

73, Jim KH2D

Why is it that the "best operators" are found at home complaining
rather than on the expedition doing what they complain the other guys are
not doing?
Joe