Anyone still use packet radio?
 

Just curious how many out there still have active 2m packet radio in
their area? Aside from APRS, I don't think anyone is listening... and
even that seems to be fading here.

I've been rather inactive for the past 7-10 years and it seems packet
has dissapeared in that time! Anyone have any creative ideas?

I honestly can't come up with any use for it that I can't already do
over the internet... My laptop even has built in EVDO on two cell
networks (redundancy!). What more can I ask for? :(

PS. 3 month old TH-D7A for sale ;)

J

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 2007-04-12, Joey joey29034atyawwhodotcom wrote:
Just curious how many out there still have active 2m packet radio in
their area? Aside from APRS, I don't think anyone is listening... and
even that seems to be fading here.

I am not sure about that (aprs I mean). In Ireland there seems to be alot
of activity. Maybe its only by a small number, but it looks busy.

I've been rather inactive for the past 7-10 years and it seems packet
has dissapeared in that time! Anyone have any creative ideas?

Well the only thing that hasn't been sent is pr0n..that seems a money-spinner
on cell networks. :)

I honestly can't come up with any use for it that I can't already do
over the internet... My laptop even has built in EVDO on two cell
networks (redundancy!). What more can I ask for? :(

I remember going to a radio meeting(probably the only meeting i went to!)
, dunno, about 7-8 years ago.
I argued that Internet was good for ham radio, while alot of people (waay more
experienced than I) argued the opposite. It'll kill DX, Packet etc.

I argued the opposite. It'll give people opportunity to find information, access
to other sides of the world, as if they were in their backgarden.

A little bit of both seems to have happened. Is that a bad thing?

PS. 3 month old TH-D7A for sale ;)

How about you and me have a chat ;) http://www.runningwithbulls.com/blog/contact-us/

thanks,
bernard

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

I wish I could find a use for it, but all good things come to an
almost-end, I guess :)

I can't say the internet has been bad for amatuer radio... look at
IRLP, echolink, etc. success. It seems everything comes back to voice
traffic.... look at VoIP on the internet, we have a big fast data
network, and guess what? we want to TALK on it :D (or download p0rn.
lol)

I guess my voice capable HT will never be obsolete! And that's why i
keep it up and running...

J


On 12 Apr 2007 07:22:20 GMT, blue box thief "blue box
wrote:

On 2007-04-12, Joey joey29034atyawwhodotcom wrote:
Just curious how many out there still have active 2m packet radio in
their area? Aside from APRS, I don't think anyone is listening... and
even that seems to be fading here.

I am not sure about that (aprs I mean). In Ireland there seems to be alot
of activity. Maybe its only by a small number, but it looks busy.

I've been rather inactive for the past 7-10 years and it seems packet
has dissapeared in that time! Anyone have any creative ideas?

Well the only thing that hasn't been sent is pr0n..that seems a money-spinner
on cell networks. :)

I honestly can't come up with any use for it that I can't already do
over the internet... My laptop even has built in EVDO on two cell
networks (redundancy!). What more can I ask for? :(

I remember going to a radio meeting(probably the only meeting i went to!)
, dunno, about 7-8 years ago.
I argued that Internet was good for ham radio, while alot of people (waay more
experienced than I) argued the opposite. It'll kill DX, Packet etc.

I argued the opposite. It'll give people opportunity to find information, access
to other sides of the world, as if they were in their backgarden.

A little bit of both seems to have happened. Is that a bad thing?

PS. 3 month old TH-D7A for sale ;)

How about you and me have a chat ;) http://www.runningwithbulls.com/blog/contact-us/

thanks,
bernard

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On Apr 12, 12:22 am, blue box thief "blue box
wrote:
On 2007-04-12, Joey joey29034atyawwhodotcom wrote:

Just curious how many out there still have active 2m packet radio in
their area? Aside from APRS, I don't think anyone is listening... and
even that seems to be fading here.

I am not sure about that (aprs I mean). In Ireland there seems to be alot
of activity. Maybe its only by a small number, but it looks busy.

I've been rather inactive for the past 7-10 years and it seems packet
has dissapeared in that time! Anyone have any creative ideas?

Well the only thing that hasn't been sent is pr0n..that seems a money-spinner
on cell networks. :)

I honestly can't come up with any use for it that I can't already do
over the internet... My laptop even has built in EVDO on two cell
networks (redundancy!). What more can I ask for? :(

I remember going to a radio meeting(probably the only meeting i went to!)
, dunno, about 7-8 years ago.
I argued that Internet was good for ham radio, while alot of people (waay more
experienced than I) argued the opposite. It'll kill DX, Packet etc.

I argued the opposite. It'll give people opportunity to find information, access
to other sides of the world, as if they were in their backgarden.

A little bit of both seems to have happened. Is that a bad thing?

PS. 3 month old TH-D7A for sale ;)

How about you and me have a chat ;)http://www.runningwithbulls.com/blog/contact-us/

thanks,
bernard

Actually, no that is not a bad thing for the masses. It is the end of
ham radio for anything other than talking about your guns, cars, or
aliments to other old farts. I am one of those old farts who has no
illusions about the worth of ham radio in this world of modern
reliable instant inexpensive world wide communications.

Packet Radio has been reduce to APRS and a few DX clusters. I got rid
of my packet station in favor of Internet based DX clusters 4 years
ago. APRS is a completely useless waste of radio spectrum. The only
real use of Packet is as a means of accessing and gathering remote
data. However, there is little ham interest in this type of activity
due largely to the fact that most sites that have power from the grid
also have Telco access which means Internet. Most repeaters are idle
now, even during drive time. SoCal used to be jam packed with repeats
on 2 meters and 70 cm during drive time. There are more cell phones
in use at the TRW and other local swap meets than hand helds. During
the evening there is more activity on 2 meter simplex than there is on
the 2 meter repeaters.

The Internet and Cell phones have reduced ham radio to an old guy's
hobby. The Internet provides reliable world wide communications for a
low monthly price eliminating the need for ham radio's traffic
handling system. Even the slowest dial-up Internet access leaves
packet radio in the dust. Chat rooms make random world wide
conversations with people possible by anyone without requiring a test
to prove that you can memorize a bunch of answers to questions without
having to understand anything. Portable Cell sites have eliminated
the need for ham radio emergency communications. Internet connections
in concert with portable cell sites have eliminated the "Health and
Welfare" traffic as well. Both portable cell and associated Internet
access allow anyone to be trained to handle emergency traffic as well
as health and welfare - no license needed. Cell phones have
eliminated any of the freeway accident reporting needs formerly
provided by hams through repeaters at "drive time".

In summary, Ham Radio has joined the model trains, boats, planes and
other old guys hobbies as something to pass time away but which
contributes nothing of value to the advancement of knowledge or
humanity.

There is virtually no interest in ham radio by the current generation
of kids and young adults -- hand held radios and repeaters are archaic
to them (and rightly so) since they walk around with world wide
reliable telco and internet access for pennies a day without having to
prove that they are worthy of some arcane title.

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

Just curious how many out there still have active 2m packet radio in
their area? Aside from APRS, I don't think anyone is listening... and
even that seems to be fading here.

I've been rather inactive for the past 7-10 years and it seems packet
has dissapeared in that time! Anyone have any creative ideas?



About three years ago I retired and moved from California. Packet
activity there seemed "sparse" at best. I had been deeply involved in
packet radio in the beginning, but my interest faded, as did packet
radio, with the growth of Internet activity.

When I moved to Oregon, I was surprised at the extent of Packet
activity in the Pacific Northwest. Oh, it isn't like it used to be in
the early 90's, but it exists, and the networks are pretty good.

The domimnent reason it still survives is probably emergency services.
ARES and RACES groups are pretty strong up here, and apparently Packet
radio is one of the key portions of ARES communications.

In fact, I'd say that the newer TelPac nodes are the primary reason
Packet remains a viable communications use for emergency services. The
mere fact that now we can easily send, and receive packet radio messages
from areas without any other communications services, and route them to
the Internet, and receive them from the Internet, makes it a pretty neat
resource.


Ed K7AAT

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

Ed wrote:


The domimnent reason it still survives is probably emergency services.
ARES and RACES groups are pretty strong up here, and apparently Packet
radio is one of the key portions of ARES communications.

In fact, I'd say that the newer TelPac nodes are the primary reason
Packet remains a viable communications use for emergency services. The
mere fact that now we can easily send, and receive packet radio messages
from areas without any other communications services, and route them to
the Internet, and receive them from the Internet, makes it a pretty neat
resource.


Ed K7AAT

Add to that APRS and Weather watch using packet.


Bob N9LVU

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

I for one am still useing Packet and run a beacon on 145.07 vhf.
We have a statewide system with the main digiptrs on tops of
Haleakala and Maunakea so coverage is near statewide. They
use APRS, but all the worlwide params are effective as the params
settings etc are standarized all over the world. Different
types of software and different types of TNC's are not a problem.
They may offer addnl cmds in the params, but the essentials
are still standardized!
Joe/KH6JF (Honolulu)



************************************************** ************************
* Ham since 1937 HiSchool Sophomore ex W9ZUU, KP4EX, W4FAG, KH6ARG KH6JF *
* WW2 Vet since Sep 1940 to just After VJ day. US Signal Corps AACS *
************************************************** ************************

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 12 Apr 2007 10:16:15 -0700, "Nobody" wrote:

Actually, no that is not a bad thing for the masses. It is the end of
ham radio for anything other than talking about your guns, cars, or
aliments to other old farts. I am one of those old farts who has no
illusions about the worth of ham radio in this world of modern
reliable instant inexpensive world wide communications.

Packet Radio has been reduce to APRS and a few DX clusters. I got rid
of my packet station in favor of Internet based DX clusters 4 years
ago. APRS is a completely useless waste of radio spectrum. The only
real use of Packet is as a means of accessing and gathering remote
data. However, there is little ham interest in this type of activity
due largely to the fact that most sites that have power from the grid
also have Telco access which means Internet. Most repeaters are idle
now, even during drive time. SoCal used to be jam packed with repeats
on 2 meters and 70 cm during drive time. There are more cell phones
in use at the TRW and other local swap meets than hand helds. During
the evening there is more activity on 2 meter simplex than there is on
the 2 meter repeaters.

The Internet and Cell phones have reduced ham radio to an old guy's
hobby. The Internet provides reliable world wide communications for a
low monthly price eliminating the need for ham radio's traffic
handling system. Even the slowest dial-up Internet access leaves
packet radio in the dust. Chat rooms make random world wide
conversations with people possible by anyone without requiring a test
to prove that you can memorize a bunch of answers to questions without
having to understand anything. Portable Cell sites have eliminated
the need for ham radio emergency communications. Internet connections
in concert with portable cell sites have eliminated the "Health and
Welfare" traffic as well. Both portable cell and associated Internet
access allow anyone to be trained to handle emergency traffic as well
as health and welfare - no license needed. Cell phones have
eliminated any of the freeway accident reporting needs formerly
provided by hams through repeaters at "drive time".

In summary, Ham Radio has joined the model trains, boats, planes and
other old guys hobbies as something to pass time away but which
contributes nothing of value to the advancement of knowledge or
humanity.

There is virtually no interest in ham radio by the current generation
of kids and young adults -- hand held radios and repeaters are archaic
to them (and rightly so) since they walk around with world wide
reliable telco and internet access for pennies a day without having to
prove that they are worthy of some arcane title.

Most of the time when people make statements like the above, they have
spent little time in actual emergency communications. Nor do they
understand why we still need amateur radio in emergency situations.

Emergencies in our part of the country, as well as many other areas,
are usually forest fires. Telephones, cel phones, public service,
television, the internet, etc. rely on telephone lines and mountain
top locations. When there is a major fire, those things are toast. I
have yet to see any portable cell towers available in our county.
Even when the phone lines manage to stay alive, they are soon taken
down with too many calls to and from the area trying to calm
relatives. This has happened time after time in major emergencies.
So you have no telephone, no cellular telephones, no internet and no
communication between public service entities like police and fire.

Our county, the largest in the state, has state-of-the-art public
service communications with links all over the state. But guess what,
every single police department, sheriff's department, Red Cross,
Salvation Army etc. has an amateur radio station permanently installed
in their facilities because they know some day they will need us. Why
do you think the Office of Homeland Security is currently spending
millions of dollars equipping ARES/RACES stations throughout the
country? It's because the government knows that all the expensive
equipment in the world can be taken out with a major emergency.
That's also why amateur radio continues to hold on to a major portion
of the frequency spectrum. It's sure not so a bunch of old farts can
play radio and talk about model trains.

With regard to packet radio. Yes, it has seen better days. Most
ARES/RACES organizations are going to WinLink 2000. But APRS is sure
not obsolete. If you send out several Jeeps on a search and rescue
mission, and want to know their exact location at all times, what else
will give you that information?

No young people entering amateur radio? How do you explain all those
that are testing for their license every month? Last week we had two
11 year-olds, and a 13 year-old all pass their technician licenses.
And their father drove them 100 miles to get to our testing location!
It's true there are more older people in the hobby today than young,
but there is still a steady stream of teen-agers and even college
students coming into the fold. It's a matter of how the local
amateurs present the hobby to them. If you don't work at getting
people interested, then you aren't going to get new hams. It's as
simple as that. We use things like IRLP and balloon flights tracked
with APRS to interest young people. If the only thing you show them
is how to use an HT, they will just show you their cell phone and
smile.

Some day, when ALL communications are via satellite, and nothing on
the ground can be destroyed by flood, fire, earthquake, tornados,
terrorist attacks, etc., then amateur radio will lose its value to the
country for backup emergency communications. Until then, people will
continue to depend upon amateur radio even when they don't realize it.

73, Dick - W6CCD

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

Dick,
I do not follow your ranting and theorizing of Ham radio nor
useage of Packet, PSK, and other forms of msg handling.
As we all know by now, the WWW is not infalible, nor the
CellPhone industry nor many of your other theories.
After 70 years with AARS/MARS etc I for one am proud to be
a member of Ham radio and all its requirements. And yes
Hams have access to the Space Ship as I understand it.
So accept my dissent to your comments!!!!!
Joe/KH6JF


************************************************** ************************
* Ham since 1937 HiSchool Sophomore ex W9ZUU, KP4EX, W4FAG, KH6ARG KH6JF *
* WW2 Vet since Sep 1940 to just After VJ day. US Signal Corps AACS *
************************************************** ************************

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

I have no idea what you are referring to in my message. Please list a
couple of the specific points in my message, and what you disagree
with. Nothing I mentioned are theories, nor is it ranting. I can't
believe you even read my message. It would help if you would leave at
least part of the message you are responding to.

Dick - W6CCD

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:12:47 -1000, Joseph Fenn
wrote:

Dick,
I do not follow your ranting and theorizing of Ham radio nor
useage of Packet, PSK, and other forms of msg handling.
As we all know by now, the WWW is not infalible, nor the
CellPhone industry nor many of your other theories.
After 70 years with AARS/MARS etc I for one am proud to be
a member of Ham radio and all its requirements. And yes
Hams have access to the Space Ship as I understand it.
So accept my dissent to your comments!!!!!
Joe/KH6JF


************************************************* *************************
* Ham since 1937 HiSchool Sophomore ex W9ZUU, KP4EX, W4FAG, KH6ARG KH6JF *
* WW2 Vet since Sep 1940 to just After VJ day. US Signal Corps AACS *
************************************************* *************************





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

Looks like he can no read , out here in the Boondocks your rant if that ,
looks quite factual , not being mean to you personally fella but maybe your
not "PATRIOT" enough Dick , with the utmost sarcasm too :-) ..

"Dick" wrote in message
...
I have no idea what you are referring to in my message. Please list a
couple of the specific points in my message, and what you disagree
with. Nothing I mentioned are theories, nor is it ranting. I can't
believe you even read my message. It would help if you would leave at
least part of the message you are responding to.

Dick - W6CCD

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:12:47 -1000, Joseph Fenn
wrote:

Dick,
I do not follow your ranting and theorizing of Ham radio nor
useage of Packet, PSK, and other forms of msg handling.
As we all know by now, the WWW is not infalible, nor the
CellPhone industry nor many of your other theories.
After 70 years with AARS/MARS etc I for one am proud to be
a member of Ham radio and all its requirements. And yes
Hams have access to the Space Ship as I understand it.
So accept my dissent to your comments!!!!!
Joe/KH6JF


************************************************ **************************
* Ham since 1937 HiSchool Sophomore ex W9ZUU, KP4EX, W4FAG, KH6ARG KH6JF *
* WW2 Vet since Sep 1940 to just After VJ day. US Signal Corps AACS *
************************************************ **************************





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

OK Guys. Let me lay it out for you so it is perfectly clear.

"Blue Box Thief" said that ham radio is ending because the internet
and cell phones have reduced it to an old guy's hobby, and it
contributes nothing of value to the advancement of knowledge or
humanity. He also said there is virtually no interest in ham radio by
the current generation of kids and young adults.

I responded with the following points:

1. The internet cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

2. Cellular telephones cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

3. The telephone system itself cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

4. Packet radio is losing favor for passing messages, but WinLink 2000
is taking its place.

5. APRS is not a waste of spectrum, and is very important for use in
tracking emergency vehicles.

6. Ham radio is still very important to the government as evidenced by
the millions of dollars being pumped into it by Homeland Security.

7. Young people ARE getting into ham radio as evidenced by the number
in our area currently testing for a license.

8. Interest in ham radio is dependent upon how much work the local
hams are willing to expend on young people.

9. Ham radio will continue to be important for emergency
communications until satellite communications are fully developed.

Please point out to me which of the above are theories or involve
ranting.

Dick - W6CCD

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

Dick wrote:


Please point out to me which of the above are theories or involve
ranting.

Dick - W6CCD


Right on!!!

Bob N9LVU

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 2007-04-12, Nobody wrote:

thanks,
bernard

Actually, no that is not a bad thing for the masses. It is the end of
ham radio for anything other than talking about your guns, cars, or
aliments to other old farts. I am one of those old farts who has no
illusions about the worth of ham radio in this world of modern
reliable instant inexpensive world wide communications.

I remember reading about a little project in the 70s in hawaii called
aloha-net (maybe?)..

this did not *specifically invent* the internet, but I don't think
you can say that ham radio has no worth in this world of reliable instat
inexpensive comms.

granted, the internet is cheap and relatively instant..but as someone who works
in mobile telephony, i can tell you when the **** hits the fan, i would have
no problem to fall back onto ham radio.

you show me a UMTS phone that works 500Km when every radio mast has been ripped t
shreds by some storm.

Packet Radio has been reduce to APRS and a few DX clusters. I got rid
of my packet station in favor of Internet based DX clusters 4 years
ago. APRS is a completely useless waste of radio spectrum. The only
real use of Packet is as a means of accessing and gathering remote
data. However, there is little ham interest in this type of activity
due largely to the fact that most sites that have power from the grid
also have Telco access which means Internet. Most repeaters are idle
now, even during drive time. SoCal used to be jam packed with repeats
on 2 meters and 70 cm during drive time. There are more cell phones
in use at the TRW and other local swap meets than hand helds. During
the evening there is more activity on 2 meter simplex than there is on
the 2 meter repeaters.

The Internet and Cell phones have reduced ham radio to an old guy's
hobby.

or a hobby of someone who is interested in communications.

to be honest, i dont think getting every kid interested in ham radio
would be a good thing.
not a "snob" mentality, but the same reason not every skid should learn to play
the guitar :)


The Internet provides reliable world wide communications for a
low monthly price eliminating the need for ham radio's traffic
handling system. Even the slowest dial-up Internet access leaves
packet radio in the dust. Chat rooms make random world wide
conversations with people possible by anyone without requiring a test
to prove that you can memorize a bunch of answers to questions without
having to understand anything. Portable Cell sites have eliminated
the need for ham radio emergency communications.i

I dont agree with you on that.
If the cell sites have connectivity to the switching centre by E1/T1, uwave links
its quite possible that the infrastructure is dead after a storm/emergency situation.


Internet connections
in concert with portable cell sites have eliminated the "Health and
Welfare" traffic as well. Both portable cell and associated Internet
access allow anyone to be trained to handle emergency traffic as well
as health and welfare - no license needed. Cell phones have
eliminated any of the freeway accident reporting needs formerly
provided by hams through repeaters at "drive time".

And hea, thats fine. Radio hams is not the answer to everything.
Just the same as Internet is not the answer to everything.

In summary, Ham Radio has joined the model trains, boats, planes and
other old guys hobbies as something to pass time away but which
contributes nothing of value to the advancement of knowledge or
humanity.

No, I can't agree with you here.

Soccer (insert sport here)doesn't contribute value to humanity, does that mean soccer is
a useless hobby?!

There is virtually no interest in ham radio by the current generation
of kids and young adults -- hand held radios and repeaters are archaic
to them (and rightly so) since they walk around with world wide
reliable telco and internet access for pennies a day without having to
prove that they are worthy of some arcane title.

As someone who uses the Internet every single day on my life, I agree with the last bit.

But, also, on the Internet everyone can be an expert (or a dog, depending..).

The Internet has its places, but so does amateur radio.

ta,
bernard

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 2007-04-13, Dick wrote:

BIG SNIP

Dick,

I agree with all you have said above!


Some day, when ALL communications are via satellite, and nothing on
the ground can be destroyed by flood, fire, earthquake, tornados,
terrorist attacks, etc., then amateur radio will lose its value to the
country for backup emergency communications. Until then, people will
continue to depend upon amateur radio even when they don't realize it.

When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one place
of insecurity in comms.

Amateur radio works, in emergency situations, because if its unorganised
(in the best sense of tha word!) nature.

Much the same way as the Internet was/is intended to operate.


The only way to knock out amateur radio would be some EMF pollution (that
and kill all the old farts:)).

bernard

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 2007-04-14, Dick wrote:
OK Guys. Let me lay it out for you so it is perfectly clear.

I think its me that has to lay it out for eberyone.

*I* said I had argued that Internet was actually a good thing
for Amateur radio:

"
I remember going to a radio meeting(probably the only meeting i went to!)
, dunno, about 7-8 years ago.
I argued that Internet was good for ham radio, while alot of people (waay more
experienced than I) argued the opposite. It'll kill DX, Packet etc.

I argued the opposite. It'll give people opportunity to find information, access
to other sides of the world, as if they were in their backgarden.

A little bit of both seems to have happened. Is that a bad thing?
"

"Nobody" then argued the counter, that in fact,
amateur radio was dead, and nothing more than an old guys hobby:

"
Actually, no that is not a bad thing for the masses. It is the end of
ham radio for anything other than talking about your guns, cars, or
aliments to other old farts. I am one of those old farts who has no
illusions about the worth of ham radio in this world of modern
reliable instant inexpensive world wide communications.
"

I then agreed completely with what Dick had said about the value of
amateur radio.

I did however disagree with him about the demise of amateur radio
when all communications go to satellite.

Now, to carry on with the conversation..
"Blue Box Thief" said that ham radio is ending because the internet
and cell phones have reduced it to an old guy's hobby, and it
contributes nothing of value to the advancement of knowledge or
humanity. He also said there is virtually no interest in ham radio by
the current generation of kids and young adults.


I hope this is now fixed. :)

I responded with the following points:

1. The internet cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

There will be times when the internet stops working, partially somewhere in the world.

2. Cellular telephones cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

Again, pretty much same as point 1.

3. The telephone system itself cannot be relied upon in an emergency.

This I might not agree with, but essentally correct.

4. Packet radio is losing favor for passing messages, but WinLink 2000
is taking its place.

I don't knmow much about winlink 2000 so i can't say.

5. APRS is not a waste of spectrum, and is very important for use in
tracking emergency vehicles.

Yes I agree. If this is a waste of spectrum, so is wifi, gps, etc..

6. Ham radio is still very important to the government as evidenced by
the millions of dollars being pumped into it by Homeland Security.

This may be the case in America. No idea.

7. Young people ARE getting into ham radio as evidenced by the number
in our area currently testing for a license.

8. Interest in ham radio is dependent upon how much work the local
hams are willing to expend on young people.

9. Ham radio will continue to be important for emergency
communications until satellite communications are fully developed.

Here I might disagree with you, as mentioned in my previous post.


Please point out to me which of the above are theories or involve
ranting.

I think :

a) yo got mixed up with me and the nobody guy. The "anti" ham radio comments
were his not mine.

b) the other got you and the nobody guy mixed up..funny that :)

Of course, it could all be a bad case of trolling :)

Dick - W6CCD

bernard

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 16 Apr 2007 12:05:19 GMT, blue box thief "blue box
wrote:

On 2007-04-14, Dick wrote:
OK Guys. Let me lay it out for you so it is perfectly clear.

I think its me that has to lay it out for everyone.

*I* said I had argued that Internet was actually a good thing
for Amateur radio:

Yes, I mis-quoted you. It was "Nobody" that I was quoting. Sorry
about that.

My point about satellite communications was not that it would do away
with ham radio per se, but that it would make ham radio much less
important for emergency communications (ARES/RACES.) When technology
advances to the point where all telephones communicate directly with
satellites, with no earthbound connection, then the only thing that
could knock them out would be to take out the satellites. Much less
likely than an earthquake, fire or flood here on earth. I know there
are services available today like Iridium and Globalstar, but it won't
be practical for everyone until the price gets down to current cell
phone costs.

Dick - W6CCD

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 2007-04-16, Dick wrote:
*I* said I had argued that Internet was actually a good thing
for Amateur radio:

Yes, I mis-quoted you. It was "Nobody" that I was quoting. Sorry
about that.

Thats ok. Don't worry about it.

My point about satellite communications was not that it would do away
with ham radio per se, but that it would make ham radio much less
important for emergency communications (ARES/RACES.) When technology
advances to the point where all telephones communicate directly with
satellites, with no earthbound connection, then the only thing that
could knock them out would be to take out the satellites. Much less
likely than an earthquake, fire or flood here on earth. I know there
are services available today like Iridium and Globalstar, but it won't
be practical for everyone until the price gets down to current cell
phone costs.

and until the available bitrates increases abit :)
last time i saw satellite phone it was something around 64Kbps.

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

blue box thief "blue box wrote:

On 2007-04-13, Dick wrote:

BIG SNIP

Dick,

I agree with all you have said above!


Some day, when ALL communications are via satellite, and nothing on
the ground can be destroyed by flood, fire, earthquake, tornados,
terrorist attacks, etc., then amateur radio will lose its value to the
country for backup emergency communications. Until then, people will
continue to depend upon amateur radio even when they don't realize it.

When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one place
of insecurity in comms.

Exactly. Didn't China just show that it can shoot down satellites?
I'm sure the US and Russia can, and possibly the EU as well.

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:26:45 -0700, Jack Hamilton wrote:

blue box thief "blue box wrote:

On 2007-04-13, Dick wrote:

BIG SNIP

Dick,

I agree with all you have said above!


Some day, when ALL communications are via satellite, and nothing on
the ground can be destroyed by flood, fire, earthquake, tornados,
terrorist attacks, etc., then amateur radio will lose its value to the
country for backup emergency communications. Until then, people will
continue to depend upon amateur radio even when they don't realize it.

When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one place
of insecurity in comms.

Exactly. Didn't China just show that it can shoot down satellites?
I'm sure the US and Russia can, and possibly the EU as well.

Yes, but it that happens we won't have to worry about communications.
We need to find a deep cave.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:47:27 -0700, Joey wrote:

I wish I could find a use for it, but all good things come to an
almost-end, I guess :)


I don't know where you live, but here in the Midland Michigan area
packet and ham radio in general are alive and well.

I can't say the internet has been bad for amatuer radio... look at
IRLP, echolink, etc. success. It seems everything comes back to voice
traffic.... look at VoIP on the internet, we have a big fast data
network, and guess what? we want to TALK on it :D (or download p0rn.
lol)

There is a lot of digital traffic locally and via a gateway to through
the Internet. We use both voice and digital modes on VHF and UHF.

There is a lot of experimenting and building as well.


I guess my voice capable HT will never be obsolete! And that's why i
keep it up and running...

J


On 12 Apr 2007 07:22:20 GMT, blue box thief "blue box
wrote:

On 2007-04-12, Joey joey29034atyawwhodotcom wrote:
Just curious how many out there still have active 2m packet radio in
their area? Aside from APRS, I don't think anyone is listening... and
even that seems to be fading here.

APRS is also very active in this area.


I am not sure about that (aprs I mean). In Ireland there seems to be alot
of activity. Maybe its only by a small number, but it looks busy.

I've been rather inactive for the past 7-10 years and it seems packet
has dissapeared in that time! Anyone have any creative ideas?

It depends on the area. Some are very active and other's are like a
desert.

I use a TM-D700 in the car, an all band all mode 897D in the shop and
an old Alinco DR610T in here for VHF and UHF. I also use a pair of
VX-7RBs and often run locked cross band.

Well the only thing that hasn't been sent is pr0n..that seems a money-spinner
on cell networks. :)

I honestly can't come up with any use for it that I can't already do
over the internet... My laptop even has built in EVDO on two cell
networks (redundancy!). What more can I ask for? :(

Emergencies. If there is a major disaster and the power hasn't failed
yet, the cell towers become overloaded, often by the press and
therefore useless for any thing else. Nor can they remain on
emergency power indefinitely. The same is true for the Internet. No
power, no Internet. Strong storms can also render satellite
communications unusable as can solar storms. Of course those storms
take out GPS as well.

Storm chasing around here makes good use of packet/APRS and voice over
much wider areas then WiFi or WiMax


I remember going to a radio meeting(probably the only meeting i went to!)
, dunno, about 7-8 years ago.
I argued that Internet was good for ham radio, while alot of people (waay more
experienced than I) argued the opposite. It'll kill DX, Packet etc.

I argued the opposite. It'll give people opportunity to find information, access
to other sides of the world, as if they were in their backgarden.

Maybe the group here is just a bit more forward thinking as they
embrace many faces of ham radio as well as the Internet.

A little bit of both seems to have happened. Is that a bad thing?

I see the Internet and Ham Radio as compatible and that, to me, is a
good thing.


PS. 3 month old TH-D7A for sale ;)



How about you and me have a chat ;) http://www.runningwithbulls.com/blog/contact-us/

thanks,
bernard

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one
place of insecurity in comms.

Exactly. Didn't China just show that it can shoot down satellites?
I'm sure the US and Russia can, and possibly the EU as well.



... more likely serious solar disaster.... solar flairs, etc, could
knock out satellites.


Ed K7AAT

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 2007-04-17, Dick wrote:

When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one place
of insecurity in comms.

Exactly. Didn't China just show that it can shoot down satellites?
I'm sure the US and Russia can, and possibly the EU as well.

And we cn't trust any of those states!

Yes, but it that happens we won't have to worry about communications.
We need to find a deep cave.

Where VLF will still work perfectly (one there is no EMP)
:)

bernard

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:18:54 -0700, Dick wrote:

On 12 Apr 2007 10:16:15 -0700, "Nobody" wrote:

Actually, no that is not a bad thing for the masses. . . . .


73, Dick - W6CCD

I'd have to agree with most of your observations...

I am in the southern california area, so yeah I see the lack of packet
and even APRS use. In the real world for day to day use, it
apparently has no value. Why should I care were some guy I don't know
is driving? Do I need to know where there hams are in a disaster? I
can just ask them on the radio.

I can basically dump any kind of data I want (voice, telemetry,
messaging, file transfers, remote control) on the internet. Heck, I
was instant messaging and watching myself on google earth via gps in
literally the middle of nowhere, Wyoming last summer (nothing but
freeway and a few cows) via Verizon 1xRTT/EVDO. I don't see 1.5MB
speeds on ham radio at the moment ;) I have Verizon's EVDO in my
laptop, a Sprint EVDO card from work (talk about dual-band!), and a
cell phone from Cingular. Oh and an old-school 2-way pager. Other
family members have Verizon cellular, and 1 has a 2-way pager on a
different carrier than mine. Our main house has 2 electric feeds (#2
to a guest house) on reasonably seperated ciruits and 2 phone lines, 1
with DSL. I maintain a generator/UPS for my computers, refrigerators,
microwave oven, and of course radios. We also have a vacation house
80 miles away with its own DSL. That is the only place not covered by
simplex ham radio. We'd have to rely on repeaters and quite a distance
at that... Or get some HF stuff, but why bother...

So why do I need a ham radio????

Well, cause I expect 80% of that stuff to fail when we have our next
large siesmic event. I have a mobile 2/440 unit in my car and the
other two have $99 cloned 2m HT's programmed both for repeaters and
simplex. So amateur radio does serve as the last backup in case that
long list of things all crap out.

However, our family expects to be out of communication during a large
event. Our need to communicate really will just be for "health and
welfare", just to see how everyone is. I don't expect to have anyone
listening on the other end if stuck under a building. One of us will
be working at the hospital, one at home, and myself will either be in
school (at a different hospital) or at the local police dept.
(volunteer) as soon as I can get there. We know to stay off the
phones. "Yes dear, we all felt the same earthquake!"

Our local city fire dept does have a team of amateur radio operators,
organized at the county level, which is the only way to go if u want
to be successful. They have been used in the past in real conditions.
During the fires in so cal, they used them mostly for fire watch
patrols in the arson prone canyons around here. During a disaster,
they're primary purpose will still be "eyes and ears". There is an HF
station at our EOC for talking to "the state OES" but I dunno how that
would really be used. They also have sat phones, so unless the
chinese shoot us down, I guarantee you the emergency officials will
pick that up first. Our local 800mhz trunked system is very robust
with multiple sites for each system, with the abillity to run local in
failsoft at each repeater site in case the main controller goes away.
And don't forget everyone has a "Nextel" lol.

So yeah, I still see ham radio as the last resort. But honestly, I
don't expect to use it much during a disaster. I will be doing my
job/volunteer work. But I still keep everything charged and tested
just in case!!!

As for the future of the hobby, yeah, keep getting kids interested in
it. Since they all have cell phones now, it will be a challenge
however to find some reason to use these "antique CB radios". I heard
a QSO on the winsystem the other day between a local and a guy from
Australia and then one from Japan a few minutes later. via IRLP of
course... It's this kind of integration with other services that
*might* keep the hobby alive. You more creative types out there may
have to some up with something new! And no, showing up to a modern
school with a dirty t-shirt, greasy beard, Yeasu hat, and 6 radios,
speaker mics, and oversized antennas hanging off of your beer gut will
not inpress the kids. (Yes, I've seen this!!) One suggestion is to
integrate with local public safety and present the hobby in this
light; as an adjunct to police and fire. I wish I had more ideas as I
think we can still be a valuable resource, but it may not be in the
traditional sense that's been the "standard" for the past 50 years.

OK, enough ranting... back to the real world.....

Joey

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:00:53 -0700, Joey joey29034atyawwhodotcom
wrote:


So yeah, I still see ham radio as the last resort. But honestly, I
don't expect to use it much during a disaster. I will be doing my
job/volunteer work. But I still keep everything charged and tested
just in case!!!


Joey

Something to keep in mind is that, if the President declares a
national emergency, no one will be able to use ham radio for anything
unless they are a member of RACES. So the decision will be made for
you unless you are a member of that organization.

Dick

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On 17 Apr 2007 19:43:09 GMT, blue box thief "blue box
wrote:

On 2007-04-17, Dick wrote:

Yes, but it that happens we won't have to worry about communications.
We need to find a deep cave.


Where VLF will still work perfectly (one there is no EMP)
:)

bernard

Might be useful to talk to someone in the same cave with you, but not
too useful if the rest of the world has been melted down to the basic
elements.

Dick

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:54:52 -0700, Dick wrote:

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 22:00:53 -0700, Joey joey29034atyawwhodotcom
wrote:


So yeah, I still see ham radio as the last resort. But honestly, I
don't expect to use it much during a disaster. I will be doing my
job/volunteer work. But I still keep everything charged and tested
just in case!!!


Joey

Something to keep in mind is that, if the President declares a
national emergency, no one will be able to use ham radio for anything
unless they are a member of RACES. So the decision will be made for
you unless you are a member of that organization.

Dick

That, and most of the repeaters, especially on 440, are all
closed/private around here and therefore useless anyway. Of course,
none of them are ever used expect for about 4 of the systems, and
therefore just tie up empty bandwidth so people can feel special about
themselves..

What's up with Santiago pk? Is there a secret society you have to
join first to put a repeater on that mountain? It's the best site in
so cal for north/south comms, yet 95% of the things up there are
"private"... Talk about pretentious...

I was, well technically am still on the county ECS team, but I became
inactive cause no one really did too much. They still do their thing
which is good, but I just didn't have time. Of course being a local
RACES (does that still exist?) member does u no good if a high-level
machine is taken over and you want to use it for 1 minute...

Anyone still use packet radio?
 

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:01:59 -0700, Dick wrote:

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:26:45 -0700, Jack Hamilton wrote:

blue box thief "blue box wrote:

On 2007-04-13, Dick wrote:

BIG SNIP

Dick,

I agree with all you have said above!


Some day, when ALL communications are via satellite, and nothing on
the ground can be destroyed by flood, fire, earthquake, tornados,
terrorist attacks, etc., then amateur radio will lose its value to the
country for backup emergency communications. Until then, people will
continue to depend upon amateur radio even when they don't realize it.

When/If all comms is via satellite, then that will give a target/one place
of insecurity in comms.

Exactly. Didn't China just show that it can shoot down satellites?
I'm sure the US and Russia can, and possibly the EU as well.

Yes, but it that happens we won't have to worry about communications.
We need to find a deep cave.

I think solar storms would prove to be a far greater danger to both
satellite invigilation and communications. Just one major X class
solar mass ejection pointed right at us and it's going to get mighty
quiet down here. The GPS signals have been interrupted a couple of
times and we weren't even in a direct path.