Thierry wrote:

Speaking normally (without shouting) in their mike with normal compression
(10 over 25), some hams say that their wattmeter displays a power of about
50-60 watts (of course in CW they reach 100 W)
But some arrive to move the niddle to about 100 watts in SSB using their
barefoot RTX...

This is nonsense, Thierry. If you shout loud enough into the microphone,
of course you'll notice a higher power reading on the wattmeter, but
so what? SSB transceiver should be adjusted so that the reading on the
ALC scale stays within limits. Anything else is overmodulating and
causing splatter.

It seems that some RTX can reach the nominal power doing a hardware
modification at the mike itself to increase the 60 w displayed in SSB to
about 100W. According these hams there is no disadvantage to make this
change.
[snip]
If such a modification exists for that TS570D or for any mic, can a ham do
it himself or can he ask his dealer to make the modificationcan

There is an audio booster circuit, which is actually a dynamic
compressor and it works by increasing the level of the softer portions
of your speech while keeping the louder portion the same (hence dynamic
compression). If properly adjusted, it may give you some signal boost.
The drawback is that the other side will be able to hear a mosquito fart
in your shack if the signal is good.

Then there's a high audio booster, which increases the higher frequency
portion of your speech, but this is generally included in modern rigs.

If your mike can drive your Kenwood's ALC to the limit when speaking
normally, there is nothing wrong with it. Build a better antenna instead
of wasting time on CB-like schemes.

73 .... WA7AA



--

Anti-spam measu look me up on qrz.com if you need to reply directly

"Thierry" wrote in message ...
Hi,

If you have an external wattmeter connected to your transmitter, can you
make a test at 100 Watts PEP and give me your true emitting power in watts ?

Speaking normally (without shouting) in their mike with normal compression
(10 over 25), some hams say that their wattmeter displays a power of about
50-60 watts (of course in CW they reach 100 W)
But some arrive to move the niddle to about 100 watts in SSB using their
barefoot RTX...

This could be all over the map, depending on the type of wattmeter
used. Very few wattmeters are good at giving an accurate reading of
voice peaks. The meter movements are too slow. If someone see's the
full 100w on SSB, they either have an excellent peak reading
wattmeter, or they are overdriving their radio. I'd say the majority
#2...:/

It seems that some RTX can reach the nominal power doing a hardware
modification at the mike itself to increase the 60 w displayed in SSB to
about 100W. According these hams there is no disadvantage to make this
change.

There is no advantage either, if the mike circuit is capable of fully
driving the radio. The circuit you have is surely capable. All you
will end up doing is adding distortion, and lowering the setting you
keep your mike gain.

The problem mainly occurs of the Kenwood TS-570D (all the serie in fact)
using a handy mic or even a desk model (the ones sold by Kenwood).
The same problem occurs with the Yaesu 1000 MP (tested at 100 W).

I've never heard of any such problem. You are just being fooled by the
meter. Didn't this type thing come up a few weeks ago?
You have average reading meters, and you have type of peak reading
meters. With NORMAL drive, and average speach, you will usually see
only 25-35 watts on an average meter when doing 100w out. This is
normal!!! Don't try to pump up the gain to get more reading. You will
just overdrive.
Then you have passive peak reading meters. They are always sluggish,
and never read the full actual output. Most will average about 80w
peaks, with actual 100w peaks. All they are doing is adding a small
electrolytic cap to the meters to give some "hang time".
Then you have active peak reading meters. These will be the most
accurate, but still can't be taken as gospel as voice patterns vary.
If you can adjust your mike gain and be within the normal ALC specs
for that radio, you have enough mike drive.
If you can whistle hard into the mike, and get nearly 100w on the
meter, you have enough mike drive.
Don't worry about what you read on SSB. If you are doing 100w CW, you
should be doing it on SSB. Heck, When I run 1300w out, I usually see
only about 400w on average meter voice peaks. Don't think my voice
peaks are really 1300w? Go out and grab the end of my antenna, and get
back to me after the paramedics wake you up. :/ The bottom line.
Very, very few wattmeters are worth a hoot at measuring SSB voice
peaks. You are worrying about an issue that doesn't really exist.
Well, unless the rare case you do have a radio problem, but I doubt
it. A friend of mine runs a 570, and he's made no mention of this
"problem". Misunderstanding wattmeter action is very common among
newer hams. Thats why many overdrive, when they really are not
intending to. They are fooled by those dang blasted meters. MK

I am agree of course with your opinion.
If I follow strictly my idea my 570 will stay like it is, and until know I
have not made the modification
(For the ones who are interested in this mod I can send you the 2 JPG as
attachment. This fix is easy you only need a special cable to plug your mic
in the accessory plug if you want to preserve your default mic socket).

This is mainly my friend Al who want this mod because is older TS840S is
better excited and he wants to find again this power on his new rig 570 to
recah pileups, he says.

Personally, as I have told the mod is not really necessary for me as I can
use a linear if needed (although I use it very few excepting at night of
during very bad propa). But sometimes I cannot drive my amplifier due the
loss of power, my linear requesting at least 80W input to produce up to 2 kW
(that I never use, as usually I work at 500-800W output using the beam,
never more).

I retain also your comments about passive and active peak meters for the
next time. My old Yaesu YS 2000 wattmeter has to be replaced by a more
recent model and both reading, RMS and peak I have on my wattmeter, will be
necessary on my new one too.

Thierry
ON4SKY, LX3SKY

"Mark Keith" wrote in message
om...
"Thierry" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If you have an external wattmeter connected to your transmitter, can you
make a test at 100 Watts PEP and give me your true emitting power in
watts ?

Speaking normally (without shouting) in their mike with normal
compression
(10 over 25), some hams say that their wattmeter displays a power of
about
50-60 watts (of course in CW they reach 100 W)
But some arrive to move the niddle to about 100 watts in SSB using their
barefoot RTX...

This could be all over the map, depending on the type of wattmeter
used. Very few wattmeters are good at giving an accurate reading of
voice peaks. The meter movements are too slow. If someone see's the
full 100w on SSB, they either have an excellent peak reading
wattmeter, or they are overdriving their radio. I'd say the majority
#2...:/

It seems that some RTX can reach the nominal power doing a hardware
modification at the mike itself to increase the 60 w displayed in SSB to
about 100W. According these hams there is no disadvantage to make this
change.

There is no advantage either, if the mike circuit is capable of fully
driving the radio. The circuit you have is surely capable. All you
will end up doing is adding distortion, and lowering the setting you
keep your mike gain.

The problem mainly occurs of the Kenwood TS-570D (all the serie in fact)
using a handy mic or even a desk model (the ones sold by Kenwood).
The same problem occurs with the Yaesu 1000 MP (tested at 100 W).

I've never heard of any such problem. You are just being fooled by the
meter. Didn't this type thing come up a few weeks ago?
You have average reading meters, and you have type of peak reading
meters. With NORMAL drive, and average speach, you will usually see
only 25-35 watts on an average meter when doing 100w out. This is
normal!!! Don't try to pump up the gain to get more reading. You will
just overdrive.
Then you have passive peak reading meters. They are always sluggish,
and never read the full actual output. Most will average about 80w
peaks, with actual 100w peaks. All they are doing is adding a small
electrolytic cap to the meters to give some "hang time".
Then you have active peak reading meters. These will be the most
accurate, but still can't be taken as gospel as voice patterns vary.
If you can adjust your mike gain and be within the normal ALC specs
for that radio, you have enough mike drive.
If you can whistle hard into the mike, and get nearly 100w on the
meter, you have enough mike drive.
Don't worry about what you read on SSB. If you are doing 100w CW, you
should be doing it on SSB. Heck, When I run 1300w out, I usually see
only about 400w on average meter voice peaks. Don't think my voice
peaks are really 1300w? Go out and grab the end of my antenna, and get
back to me after the paramedics wake you up. :/ The bottom line.
Very, very few wattmeters are worth a hoot at measuring SSB voice
peaks. You are worrying about an issue that doesn't really exist.
Well, unless the rare case you do have a radio problem, but I doubt
it. A friend of mine runs a 570, and he's made no mention of this
"problem". Misunderstanding wattmeter action is very common among
newer hams. Thats why many overdrive, when they really are not
intending to. They are fooled by those dang blasted meters. MK

I am agree of course with your opinion.
If I follow strictly my idea my 570 will stay like it is, and until know I
have not made the modification
(For the ones who are interested in this mod I can send you the 2 JPG as
attachment. This fix is easy you only need a special cable to plug your mic
in the accessory plug if you want to preserve your default mic socket).

This is mainly my friend Al who want this mod because is older TS840S is
better excited and he wants to find again this power on his new rig 570 to
recah pileups, he says.

Personally, as I have told the mod is not really necessary for me as I can
use a linear if needed (although I use it very few excepting at night of
during very bad propa). But sometimes I cannot drive my amplifier due the
loss of power, my linear requesting at least 80W input to produce up to 2 kW
(that I never use, as usually I work at 500-800W output using the beam,
never more).

I retain also your comments about passive and active peak meters for the
next time. My old Yaesu YS 2000 wattmeter has to be replaced by a more
recent model and both reading, RMS and peak I have on my wattmeter, will be
necessary on my new one too.

Thierry
ON4SKY, LX3SKY

"Mark Keith" wrote in message
om...
"Thierry" wrote in message
...
Hi,

If you have an external wattmeter connected to your transmitter, can you
make a test at 100 Watts PEP and give me your true emitting power in
watts ?

Speaking normally (without shouting) in their mike with normal
compression
(10 over 25), some hams say that their wattmeter displays a power of
about
50-60 watts (of course in CW they reach 100 W)
But some arrive to move the niddle to about 100 watts in SSB using their
barefoot RTX...

This could be all over the map, depending on the type of wattmeter
used. Very few wattmeters are good at giving an accurate reading of
voice peaks. The meter movements are too slow. If someone see's the
full 100w on SSB, they either have an excellent peak reading
wattmeter, or they are overdriving their radio. I'd say the majority
#2...:/

It seems that some RTX can reach the nominal power doing a hardware
modification at the mike itself to increase the 60 w displayed in SSB to
about 100W. According these hams there is no disadvantage to make this
change.

There is no advantage either, if the mike circuit is capable of fully
driving the radio. The circuit you have is surely capable. All you
will end up doing is adding distortion, and lowering the setting you
keep your mike gain.

The problem mainly occurs of the Kenwood TS-570D (all the serie in fact)
using a handy mic or even a desk model (the ones sold by Kenwood).
The same problem occurs with the Yaesu 1000 MP (tested at 100 W).

I've never heard of any such problem. You are just being fooled by the
meter. Didn't this type thing come up a few weeks ago?
You have average reading meters, and you have type of peak reading
meters. With NORMAL drive, and average speach, you will usually see
only 25-35 watts on an average meter when doing 100w out. This is
normal!!! Don't try to pump up the gain to get more reading. You will
just overdrive.
Then you have passive peak reading meters. They are always sluggish,
and never read the full actual output. Most will average about 80w
peaks, with actual 100w peaks. All they are doing is adding a small
electrolytic cap to the meters to give some "hang time".
Then you have active peak reading meters. These will be the most
accurate, but still can't be taken as gospel as voice patterns vary.
If you can adjust your mike gain and be within the normal ALC specs
for that radio, you have enough mike drive.
If you can whistle hard into the mike, and get nearly 100w on the
meter, you have enough mike drive.
Don't worry about what you read on SSB. If you are doing 100w CW, you
should be doing it on SSB. Heck, When I run 1300w out, I usually see
only about 400w on average meter voice peaks. Don't think my voice
peaks are really 1300w? Go out and grab the end of my antenna, and get
back to me after the paramedics wake you up. :/ The bottom line.
Very, very few wattmeters are worth a hoot at measuring SSB voice
peaks. You are worrying about an issue that doesn't really exist.
Well, unless the rare case you do have a radio problem, but I doubt
it. A friend of mine runs a 570, and he's made no mention of this
"problem". Misunderstanding wattmeter action is very common among
newer hams. Thats why many overdrive, when they really are not
intending to. They are fooled by those dang blasted meters. MK

"Thierry" wrote in message ...
Hi,

If you have an external wattmeter connected to your transmitter, can you
make a test at 100 Watts PEP and give me your true emitting power in watts ?

Speaking normally (without shouting) in their mike with normal compression
(10 over 25), some hams say that their wattmeter displays a power of about
50-60 watts (of course in CW they reach 100 W)
But some arrive to move the niddle to about 100 watts in SSB using their
barefoot RTX...

This could be all over the map, depending on the type of wattmeter
used. Very few wattmeters are good at giving an accurate reading of
voice peaks. The meter movements are too slow. If someone see's the
full 100w on SSB, they either have an excellent peak reading
wattmeter, or they are overdriving their radio. I'd say the majority
#2...:/

It seems that some RTX can reach the nominal power doing a hardware
modification at the mike itself to increase the 60 w displayed in SSB to
about 100W. According these hams there is no disadvantage to make this
change.

There is no advantage either, if the mike circuit is capable of fully
driving the radio. The circuit you have is surely capable. All you
will end up doing is adding distortion, and lowering the setting you
keep your mike gain.

The problem mainly occurs of the Kenwood TS-570D (all the serie in fact)
using a handy mic or even a desk model (the ones sold by Kenwood).
The same problem occurs with the Yaesu 1000 MP (tested at 100 W).

I've never heard of any such problem. You are just being fooled by the
meter. Didn't this type thing come up a few weeks ago?
You have average reading meters, and you have type of peak reading
meters. With NORMAL drive, and average speach, you will usually see
only 25-35 watts on an average meter when doing 100w out. This is
normal!!! Don't try to pump up the gain to get more reading. You will
just overdrive.
Then you have passive peak reading meters. They are always sluggish,
and never read the full actual output. Most will average about 80w
peaks, with actual 100w peaks. All they are doing is adding a small
electrolytic cap to the meters to give some "hang time".
Then you have active peak reading meters. These will be the most
accurate, but still can't be taken as gospel as voice patterns vary.
If you can adjust your mike gain and be within the normal ALC specs
for that radio, you have enough mike drive.
If you can whistle hard into the mike, and get nearly 100w on the
meter, you have enough mike drive.
Don't worry about what you read on SSB. If you are doing 100w CW, you
should be doing it on SSB. Heck, When I run 1300w out, I usually see
only about 400w on average meter voice peaks. Don't think my voice
peaks are really 1300w? Go out and grab the end of my antenna, and get
back to me after the paramedics wake you up. :/ The bottom line.
Very, very few wattmeters are worth a hoot at measuring SSB voice
peaks. You are worrying about an issue that doesn't really exist.
Well, unless the rare case you do have a radio problem, but I doubt
it. A friend of mine runs a 570, and he's made no mention of this
"problem". Misunderstanding wattmeter action is very common among
newer hams. Thats why many overdrive, when they really are not
intending to. They are fooled by those dang blasted meters. MK

"Thierry" wrote in message
If such a modification exists for that TS570D or for any mic, can a ham do
it himself or can he ask his dealer to make the modificationcan
Where on the Internet can we find this procedure ?

Thanks in advance

Another note...Most all radios are set up from the factory to have the
mike controls match the stock mikes. So if you use the stock hand
mike, or stock desk mike, the mike gain controls "should" end up
being set in the middle range of the mike gain control. I know on my
706, if using the stock mike, I end up with the mike gain about on
"5", which is halfway. This is the way you want your mike set up. So
if you add on extra mikes, you want to adjust the gain to match what
you have, and let the radio be in the middle of it's range for gain.
How to adjust mike gain while talking? I have a method I use, which
seems fairly accurate. Set up the radio into a dummy load, and set
power output for 100w "full power". Use an average meter, or if peak
reading, set to "average".
Then set the mike gain at it's lowest setting. Then speak into the
mike in your normal volume, and say x-ray a couple of times at the
lowest mike setting. Then adjust the mike gain up a notch at a time,
and say x-ray a couple of times while on each increasing setting of
mike gain. When you get to the point where increasing the gain makes
no change on the indicated watt meter reading, you have full mike
drive. I bet if you try this on your radio, you will end up near the
half way mark on your mike drive when using a stock mike. When you get
to the point where you have no change, set it back to the first
setting that gave max reading, and you are pretty dang close to the
proper setting. Watching a scope while doing this is even better, but
this method is intended for non-scope users. And yes, being this is an
average meter being used, you will likely only see voice peaks of
25-35 watts or so. Depends on the voice. If you add a pre-amp to a
normal mike circuit, you will overdrive the radios own circuit, and
end up at "1" as far as your mike setting. Will make it real touchy,
and easy to overdrive.
If you did the "x-ray" test, and could go all the way to the end of
the mike gain, and were still seeing increasing average power, and
show no signs of clipping at all, it's then possible you would need a
preamp. It will be fairly obvious power is down from normal, once you
get used to what normal should look like on your particular meter. You
can also do a hard whistle test...I have to use a preamp for my audio
technica mike when going to the 706. I only get about half drive
without it. But thats a case of an aftermarket low Z "200 ohm" mike.
BTW, that same mike element drives my TS-830 with no preamp needed, so
radios vary to their mike gain requirements. Many old icoms needed
outboard mike preamps. "IE: 730,740, etc.. Also be aware that radios
will read different due to audio freq differences also. The bottom
line...If you see a point of no increase when adjusting, as when
normal, there is no point in adding any preamps. And also no point in
worrying what a particular meter reads on voice peaks unless it's
radically off from normal. The meter movements just can't keep up. MK

"Thierry" wrote in message
If such a modification exists for that TS570D or for any mic, can a ham do
it himself or can he ask his dealer to make the modificationcan
Where on the Internet can we find this procedure ?

Thanks in advance

Another note...Most all radios are set up from the factory to have the
mike controls match the stock mikes. So if you use the stock hand
mike, or stock desk mike, the mike gain controls "should" end up
being set in the middle range of the mike gain control. I know on my
706, if using the stock mike, I end up with the mike gain about on
"5", which is halfway. This is the way you want your mike set up. So
if you add on extra mikes, you want to adjust the gain to match what
you have, and let the radio be in the middle of it's range for gain.
How to adjust mike gain while talking? I have a method I use, which
seems fairly accurate. Set up the radio into a dummy load, and set
power output for 100w "full power". Use an average meter, or if peak
reading, set to "average".
Then set the mike gain at it's lowest setting. Then speak into the
mike in your normal volume, and say x-ray a couple of times at the
lowest mike setting. Then adjust the mike gain up a notch at a time,
and say x-ray a couple of times while on each increasing setting of
mike gain. When you get to the point where increasing the gain makes
no change on the indicated watt meter reading, you have full mike
drive. I bet if you try this on your radio, you will end up near the
half way mark on your mike drive when using a stock mike. When you get
to the point where you have no change, set it back to the first
setting that gave max reading, and you are pretty dang close to the
proper setting. Watching a scope while doing this is even better, but
this method is intended for non-scope users. And yes, being this is an
average meter being used, you will likely only see voice peaks of
25-35 watts or so. Depends on the voice. If you add a pre-amp to a
normal mike circuit, you will overdrive the radios own circuit, and
end up at "1" as far as your mike setting. Will make it real touchy,
and easy to overdrive.
If you did the "x-ray" test, and could go all the way to the end of
the mike gain, and were still seeing increasing average power, and
show no signs of clipping at all, it's then possible you would need a
preamp. It will be fairly obvious power is down from normal, once you
get used to what normal should look like on your particular meter. You
can also do a hard whistle test...I have to use a preamp for my audio
technica mike when going to the 706. I only get about half drive
without it. But thats a case of an aftermarket low Z "200 ohm" mike.
BTW, that same mike element drives my TS-830 with no preamp needed, so
radios vary to their mike gain requirements. Many old icoms needed
outboard mike preamps. "IE: 730,740, etc.. Also be aware that radios
will read different due to audio freq differences also. The bottom
line...If you see a point of no increase when adjusting, as when
normal, there is no point in adding any preamps. And also no point in
worrying what a particular meter reads on voice peaks unless it's
radically off from normal. The meter movements just can't keep up. MK