VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 06:25:33 -0700 (PDT), Telstar Electronics
wrote:

|On Jun 6, 4:17*pm, james wrote:
| On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 16:25:44 -0400, "Tio Pedro"
|
| wrote:
|
| ||"Telstar Electronics" wrote in message
|
| ...
| | VoiceMax is really gaining momentum!
| | Radio operators all over the world are enjoying the Voicemax
| | advantage.
| | Since VoiceMax doesn't use audio "clipping"... your audio is loud AND
| | clear.
| | What a concept!
| |
| | See what VoiceMax can do for you at
| |http://www.telstar-electronics.com/voicemax.htm
| |
| |What is the dB advantage of this vs. RF clipping for SSB?
| |
| |
| |----------------------
|
| RF Clipping is superior to audio compression in SSB transmission. RF
| clipping will provide about 6dB improvement over audio compression
| alone.
|
| james
|
|James is correct... that the RF clipping technique is somewhat more
|effective. What he fails to mention is that it's more complex... and
|not easily installed into an existing radio. RF clipping also
|exihibits substantially more distortion. The VoiceMax installs
|easily... and provides tangible results.
|----------------

Actually as easy to design an RF Clipper as an audio compressor. True
it is a bit more difficult to install. Audio clippers can be external
to the transmitter and simpler to install and operate. A RF Clipper
will install as easily as your internal audio compressor.

Personally I would take RF clipping over Audio compression any day
with SSB transmissions. If the post filters are good in enough RF
clipping, there is not significant difference in distortion.

james

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

On Jun 11, 8:44*am, james wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 06:25:33 -0700 (PDT), Telstar Electronics

wrote:

|On Jun 6, 4:17*pm, james wrote:
| On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 16:25:44 -0400, "Tio Pedro"
|| wrote:

|
| ||"Telstar Electronics" wrote in message
|
| ....
| | VoiceMax is really gaining momentum!
| | Radio operators all over the world are enjoying the Voicemax
| | advantage.
| | Since VoiceMax doesn't use audio "clipping"... your audio is loud AND
| | clear.
| | What a concept!
| |
| | See what VoiceMax can do for you at
| |http://www.telstar-electronics.com/voicemax.htm
| |
| |What is the dB advantage of this vs. RF clipping for SSB?
| |
| |
| |----------------------
|
| RF Clipping is superior to audio compression in SSB transmission. RF
| clipping will provide about 6dB improvement over audio compression
| alone.
|
| james
|
|James is correct... that the RF clipping technique is somewhat more
|effective. What he fails to mention is that it's more complex... and
|not easily installed into an existing radio. RF clipping also
|exihibits substantially more distortion. The VoiceMax installs
|easily... and provides tangible results.
|----------------

Actually as easy to design an RF Clipper as an audio compressor. True
it is a bit more difficult to install. Audio clippers can be external
to the transmitter and simpler to install and operate. A RF Clipper
will install as easily as your internal audio compressor. *

Personally I would take RF clipping over Audio compression any day
with SSB transmissions. If the post filters are good in enough RF
clipping, there is not significant difference in distortion.

james

But I was under the impression that RF clippers only work on SSB?...
and the installation involves tearing into the IF section?

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:36:55 -0700 (PDT), Telstar Electronics
wrote:

|On Jun 11, 8:44*am, james wrote:
| On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 06:25:33 -0700 (PDT), Telstar Electronics
|
| wrote:
|
| |On Jun 6, 4:17*pm, james wrote:
| | On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 16:25:44 -0400, "Tio Pedro"
| || wrote:
|
| |
| | ||"Telstar Electronics" wrote in message
| |
| | ...
| | | VoiceMax is really gaining momentum!
| | | Radio operators all over the world are enjoying the Voicemax
| | | advantage.
| | | Since VoiceMax doesn't use audio "clipping"... your audio is loud AND
| | | clear.
| | | What a concept!
| | |
| | | See what VoiceMax can do for you at
| | |http://www.telstar-electronics.com/voicemax.htm
| | |
| | |What is the dB advantage of this vs. RF clipping for SSB?
| | |
| | |
| | |----------------------
| |
| | RF Clipping is superior to audio compression in SSB transmission. RF
| | clipping will provide about 6dB improvement over audio compression
| | alone.
| |
| | james
| |
| |James is correct... that the RF clipping technique is somewhat more
| |effective. What he fails to mention is that it's more complex... and
| |not easily installed into an existing radio. RF clipping also
| |exihibits substantially more distortion. The VoiceMax installs
| |easily... and provides tangible results.
| |----------------
|
| Actually as easy to design an RF Clipper as an audio compressor. True
| it is a bit more difficult to install. Audio clippers can be external
| to the transmitter and simpler to install and operate. A RF Clipper
| will install as easily as your internal audio compressor. *
|
| Personally I would take RF clipping over Audio compression any day
| with SSB transmissions. If the post filters are good in enough RF
| clipping, there is not significant difference in distortion.
|
| james
|
|But I was under the impression that RF clippers only work on SSB?...
|and the installation involves tearing into the IF section?
|--------------

Correct. An RF clipper an be inserted after the SSB filters or before.
There are versions that do the clipping after the balance modualtor
and before filters. Sherwood did a RF clipper for the Drake TR4 that
was after the SSB filters and had crystal filters to restore the
original bandwidth.

Generally RF clipping is a bit more expensive than audio compression.
Then you get what you pay for.


james

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

In message , james
writes
On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:36:55 -0700 (PDT), Telstar Electronics
wrote:

|On Jun 11, 8:44*am, james wrote:
| On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 06:25:33 -0700 (PDT), Telstar Electronics
|
| wrote:
|
| |On Jun 6, 4:17*pm, james wrote:
| | On Thu, 5 Jun 2008 16:25:44 -0400, "Tio Pedro"
| || wrote:
|
| |
| | ||"Telstar Electronics" wrote in message
| |
| | ...
| | | VoiceMax is really gaining momentum!
| | | Radio operators all over the world are enjoying the Voicemax
| | | advantage.
| | | Since VoiceMax doesn't use audio "clipping"... your audio is loud AND
| | | clear.
| | | What a concept!
| | |
| | | See what VoiceMax can do for you at
| | |http://www.telstar-electronics.com/voicemax.htm
| | |
| | |What is the dB advantage of this vs. RF clipping for SSB?
| | |
| | |
| | |----------------------
| |
| | RF Clipping is superior to audio compression in SSB transmission. RF
| | clipping will provide about 6dB improvement over audio compression
| | alone.
| |
| | james
| |
| |James is correct... that the RF clipping technique is somewhat more
| |effective. What he fails to mention is that it's more complex... and
| |not easily installed into an existing radio. RF clipping also
| |exihibits substantially more distortion. The VoiceMax installs
| |easily... and provides tangible results.
| |----------------
|
| Actually as easy to design an RF Clipper as an audio compressor. True
| it is a bit more difficult to install. Audio clippers can be external
| to the transmitter and simpler to install and operate. A RF Clipper
| will install as easily as your internal audio compressor. *
|
| Personally I would take RF clipping over Audio compression any day
| with SSB transmissions. If the post filters are good in enough RF
| clipping, there is not significant difference in distortion.
|
| james
|
|But I was under the impression that RF clippers only work on SSB?...
|and the installation involves tearing into the IF section?
|--------------

Correct. An RF clipper an be inserted after the SSB filters or before.
There are versions that do the clipping after the balance modualtor
and before filters. Sherwood did a RF clipper for the Drake TR4 that
was after the SSB filters and had crystal filters to restore the
original bandwidth.

Generally RF clipping is a bit more expensive than audio compression.
Then you get what you pay for.


james

I thought that there were some stand-alone RF clippers. Surely there is
no reason why they cannot be external units, inserted in-line between
the mic and the mic socket (ie audio in - audio out)?

Obviously they have to contain 'all the works' (oscillator, balanced
modulator, compressor, clipper, filters, balanced demodulator etc), but
at least they are self-contained and universal.

Regarding filtering, the main advantage of RF clippers is that they
eliminate the effects of second-order distortion, and only have the
distortion produced by in-band third order intermodulation. For
cheapness and simplicity, if you leave out the SSB filtering (ie do
everything at DSB), you will have at least twice the number of in-band
IM products. But how much worse is this than having SSB filtering?
--
Ian

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:03:36 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

I thought that there were some stand-alone RF clippers. Surely there is
no reason why they cannot be external units, inserted in-line between
the mic and the mic socket (ie audio in - audio out)?

At least Datong made a stand-alone unit. There was an article about
RF-clipping and the Datong unit in Wireless World a few decades ago.

Paul OH3LWR

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

I thought that there were some stand-alone RF clippers. Surely there is
no reason why they cannot be external units, inserted in-line between
the mic and the mic socket (ie audio in - audio out)?

Huh? How can you do RF clipping outside the unit? Not a chance...
Any unit that's inserted in the mic jack is no RF clipper.
www.telstar-electronics.com

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

In message
,
Telstar Electronics writes
I thought that there were some stand-alone RF clippers. Surely there is
no reason why they cannot be external units, inserted in-line between
the mic and the mic socket (ie audio in - audio out)?

Huh? How can you do RF clipping outside the unit? Not a chance...
Any unit that's inserted in the mic jack is no RF clipper.
www.telstar-electronics.com

As I said. "Obviously they have to contain 'all the works' (oscillator,
balanced modulator, compressor, clipper, filters, balanced demodulator
etc)."

And, as Paul said, "At least Datong made a stand-alone unit. There was
an article about RF-clipping and the Datong unit in Wireless World a few
decades ago."

But maybe Datong didn't know what they were doing.
--
Ian

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

Huh? How can you do RF clipping outside the unit? Not a chance...
Any unit that's inserted in the mic jack is no RF clipper.
www.telstar-electronics.com

As I said. "Obviously they have to contain 'all the works' (oscillator,
balanced modulator, compressor, clipper, filters, balanced demodulator
etc)."

And, as Paul said, "At least Datong made a stand-alone unit. There was an
article about RF-clipping and the Datong unit in Wireless World a few
decades ago."

But maybe Datong didn't know what they were doing.
--
Ian

They had a lot of company, and the residents here have a very short memory.
Datong was second. Comdel made an RF clipper in the late 60's and early
70's. Mike input and amplifier, mixed up to 455 KHz, sideband generated,
clipped the hell out of it, filtered it with a second filter, mixed back
down to audio with the same LO for injection to your mike input jack. Every
serious contester and DXer had one. Cost more than the receiver.

W4ZCB

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

In message %x94k.205330$yE1.184476@attbi_s21, Harold E. Johnson
writes

Huh? How can you do RF clipping outside the unit? Not a chance...
Any unit that's inserted in the mic jack is no RF clipper.
www.telstar-electronics.com

As I said. "Obviously they have to contain 'all the works' (oscillator,
balanced modulator, compressor, clipper, filters, balanced demodulator
etc)."

And, as Paul said, "At least Datong made a stand-alone unit. There was an
article about RF-clipping and the Datong unit in Wireless World a few
decades ago."

But maybe Datong didn't know what they were doing.
--
Ian

They had a lot of company, and the residents here have a very short memory.
Datong was second. Comdel made an RF clipper in the late 60's and early
70's. Mike input and amplifier, mixed up to 455 KHz, sideband generated,
clipped the hell out of it, filtered it with a second filter, mixed back
down to audio with the same LO for injection to your mike input jack. Every
serious contester and DXer had one. Cost more than the receiver.

W4ZCB

Yes, a quick Google on "RF clipper"+Datong brings up lots of info -
about Datong and lots of others. This is one of the first:
http://www.qsl.net/m0ezp/radio-datong.html
--
Ian

VoiceMax Speech Processor...
 

As I said. "Obviously they have to contain 'all the works' (oscillator,
balanced modulator, compressor, clipper, filters, balanced demodulator
etc)."

That sounds very complex and expensive all right.
Another problem I see is that they only work on SSB.
My customers insist on something small that fits inside the radio and
processes in all modes. The VoiceMax does that with less than 1% THD.
Can't build them fast enough to keep them in stock...