On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:05:17 -0700, Dick
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:46:15 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:36:59 -0700, Dick
wrote:

Yes, but the one GMRS license covers literally everyone in your
family. Aunts, uncles, cousins, in-laws, you name it, they are
covered. Gets pretty cheap if 10 people get radios.

Better double check the fine print. I though it was for a single
household, not for the entire extended family.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

OK. Here's the fine print.

95.1 The General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS).

(a) The GMRS is a land mobile radio service available to persons for
short-distance two-way communications to facilitate the activities of
licensees and their immediate family members. Each licensee manages a
system consisting of one or more stations.

-- and --

95.179 Individuals who may be station operators.

(a) An individual GMRS system licensee may permit immediate family
members to be station operators in his or her GMRS system. Immediate
family members are the:

(1) Licensee;

(2) Licensee's spouse;

(3) Licensee's children, grandchildren, stepchildren;

(4) Licensee's parents, grandparents, stepparents;

(5) Licensee's brothers, sisters;

(6) Licensee's aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews; and

(7) Licensee's in-laws.

Note that the regulations only identify immediate family members. It
says nothing about them being in the same household. It would
probably be stretching it some if everyone wasn't in the same town, or
within a few miles of each other, but the regulations do not
specifically address this. They only address being on the same
"system."

Dick - W6CCD


Please, no jokes about places where an entire county could
operate under a single license.

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:57:27 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:05:17 -0700, Dick
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:46:15 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:36:59 -0700, Dick
wrote:

Yes, but the one GMRS license covers literally everyone in your
family. Aunts, uncles, cousins, in-laws, you name it, they are
covered. Gets pretty cheap if 10 people get radios.

Better double check the fine print. I though it was for a single
household, not for the entire extended family.

OK. Here's the fine print.

95.179 Individuals who may be station operators.

(a) An individual GMRS system licensee may permit immediate family
members to be station operators in his or her GMRS system. Immediate
family members are the:

(1) Licensee;

(2) Etc

Note that the regulations only identify immediate family members. It

Thanks for looking that up. A bit more generous than I thought.

I happened to be in Costco today and looked at a Motorola set
which referred to a large number of FRS + GMRS frequencies being
available. Based on an earlier posting, I spent a few minutes reading
everything visible on both sides of the packaging. As suggested in
that posting, the word "license" appeared nowhere in the text. They
sure don't seem to feel any need to help the buyer stay legal.

Still doesn't work for a non-profit organization situation, where the
connections are not through blood and marriage.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:57:27 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 08:05:17 -0700, Dick
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 13:46:15 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:36:59 -0700, Dick
wrote:

Yes, but the one GMRS license covers literally everyone in your
family. Aunts, uncles, cousins, in-laws, you name it, they are
covered. Gets pretty cheap if 10 people get radios.

Better double check the fine print. I though it was for a single
household, not for the entire extended family.

OK. Here's the fine print.

95.179 Individuals who may be station operators.

(a) An individual GMRS system licensee may permit immediate family
members to be station operators in his or her GMRS system. Immediate
family members are the:

(1) Licensee;

(2) Etc

Note that the regulations only identify immediate family members. It

Thanks for looking that up. A bit more generous than I thought.

I happened to be in Costco today and looked at a Motorola set
which referred to a large number of FRS + GMRS frequencies being
available. Based on an earlier posting, I spent a few minutes reading
everything visible on both sides of the packaging. As suggested in
that posting, the word "license" appeared nowhere in the text. They
sure don't seem to feel any need to help the buyer stay legal.

Still doesn't work for a non-profit organization situation, where the
connections are not through blood and marriage.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:57:27 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

I happened to be in Costco today and looked at a Motorola set
which referred to a large number of FRS + GMRS frequencies being
available. Based on an earlier posting, I spent a few minutes reading
everything visible on both sides of the packaging. As suggested in
that posting, the word "license" appeared nowhere in the text. They
sure don't seem to feel any need to help the buyer stay legal.

It's in the manual when you open it up.. but yes, they should be mentioning
licensing on the outer packaging. They do tell you not to use it on GMRS
channels without a license (these radios use FRS power levels on FRS
frequencies).

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:57:27 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

I happened to be in Costco today and looked at a Motorola set
which referred to a large number of FRS + GMRS frequencies being
available. Based on an earlier posting, I spent a few minutes reading
everything visible on both sides of the packaging. As suggested in
that posting, the word "license" appeared nowhere in the text. They
sure don't seem to feel any need to help the buyer stay legal.

It's in the manual when you open it up.. but yes, they should be mentioning
licensing on the outer packaging. They do tell you not to use it on GMRS
channels without a license (these radios use FRS power levels on FRS
frequencies).

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:41:13 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:57:27 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

I happened to be in Costco today and looked at a Motorola set
which referred to a large number of FRS + GMRS frequencies being
available. Based on an earlier posting, I spent a few minutes reading
everything visible on both sides of the packaging. As suggested in
that posting, the word "license" appeared nowhere in the text. They
sure don't seem to feel any need to help the buyer stay legal.

It's in the manual when you open it up.. but yes, they should be mentioning
licensing on the outer packaging. They do tell you not to use it on GMRS
channels without a license (these radios use FRS power levels on FRS
frequencies).

Yes, I've seen those as well. As a licensed ham operator, I tend to be
sensitive to being properly licensed to transmit.

If they mentioned this, it would no doubt hurt sales. And they can
always fall back on "it is the purchaser's responsiblility to be
licensed". Considering where most of these are sold, depending on the
salesperson to know this is not a good bet.

Of course, a GMRS license only tests your ability to write a check and
mail it to the correct address.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 21:41:13 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:57:27 GMT, Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote:

I happened to be in Costco today and looked at a Motorola set
which referred to a large number of FRS + GMRS frequencies being
available. Based on an earlier posting, I spent a few minutes reading
everything visible on both sides of the packaging. As suggested in
that posting, the word "license" appeared nowhere in the text. They
sure don't seem to feel any need to help the buyer stay legal.

It's in the manual when you open it up.. but yes, they should be mentioning
licensing on the outer packaging. They do tell you not to use it on GMRS
channels without a license (these radios use FRS power levels on FRS
frequencies).

Yes, I've seen those as well. As a licensed ham operator, I tend to be
sensitive to being properly licensed to transmit.

If they mentioned this, it would no doubt hurt sales. And they can
always fall back on "it is the purchaser's responsiblility to be
licensed". Considering where most of these are sold, depending on the
salesperson to know this is not a good bet.

Of course, a GMRS license only tests your ability to write a check and
mail it to the correct address.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

I would venture to say most all purchased at Wal-Mart, K-mart, etc.
are used without licenses. Pay $75.00 to use two $15.00 radios?! Joe
consumer just isn't going to do it especially with the chance of being
discovered next to zero.

Randy AB9GO


Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:50:42 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

Hypothetically, I would guess that some of these radios are used
without licenses.

I would venture to say most all purchased at Wal-Mart, K-mart, etc.
are used without licenses. Pay $75.00 to use two $15.00 radios?! Joe
consumer just isn't going to do it especially with the chance of being
discovered next to zero.

Randy AB9GO


Gary S. Idontwantspam@net wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 11:50:42 +0900, "Brenda Ann"
wrote:

Hypothetically, I would guess that some of these radios are used
without licenses.

Yes, I've seen those as well. As a licensed ham operator, I tend to be
sensitive to being properly licensed to transmit.

....

Of course, a GMRS license only tests your ability to write a check and
mail it to the correct address.


There is no intent to test the users ability or knowledge, and that is not
the reason for requiring a license for GMRS (or business, public service,
special emergency, etc.).

As a licensed service, GMRS allows use of higher power radios (up to 50 watt
transmitter output), as well as gain antennas, repeaters, etc. Requiring a
license (and identifying when transmitting) allows identifying and tracking
down a station which causes interference, necessary when you start using
higher power, gain antenna, etc. The license also provides any restrictions
or conditions on the use of the radio. For example, two of the GMRS pairs
are not allowed to be used within approximately 75 miles of Canada - and
that is clearly stated on the license when you get it (and in the
regulations if you bother to read them). And NO GMRS frequencies are legal
outside of the U.S. - you can't take a GMRS radio to Canada or any other
country and legally use it, even though Canada does recognize FRS.

Tests done on most of the bubble pack GMRS/FRS radios show they do not
produce any higher effective radiated power on the GMRS frequencies than on
the FRS - what they are giving you is a useless 22 channel radio instead of
a useless 14 channel radio. The other issue directly related to the lack of
performance is the antenna requirement for FRS (integrated non-removable no
gain), which isn't a whole lot better than a dummy load.

Carl
Ham, GMRS, & Commercial