In message , Steve Terry
writes
Mike Cook wrote:
Going to trek in Tibet. Would like to take 2-way radios (Motorola
Spirit UHF).

Is there a published list of available & unavailable frequencies in
PRC?
Thanks.

AFAIK their version of 446PMR is 409MHz SRPR, 20 public channels
within 409.750-409.9875 (12.5kHz, 500mW)

Same as in HK
http://tel_archives.ofca.gov.hk/en/a.../nsp2002p3.pdf

Probably the easiest way of getting radios for use in Tibet is to source
them locally, and get them shipped to a convenient collection point.
China and Hong Kong are certainly not short of manufacturers!
--
Ian

Ian Jackson wrote:


Probably the easiest way of getting radios for use in Tibet is to source
them locally, and get them shipped to a convenient collection point.
China and Hong Kong are certainly not short of manufacturers!

Even for an American in the UK, that would be the best approach, as
radios not specifically approved for PMR 446 are not covered by the
class licence.

For China, it will be part a question of protecting their own industry
and partly a national security issue. Given its history, national
security is likely to be a particularly important issue in Tibet.

In message , David Woolley
writes
Ian Jackson wrote:


Probably the easiest way of getting radios for use in Tibet is to
source them locally, and get them shipped to a convenient collection
point. China and Hong Kong are certainly not short of manufacturers!

Even for an American in the UK, that would be the best approach, as
radios not specifically approved for PMR 446 are not covered by the
class licence.

I note that the OP's intended radio (Motorola Spirit UHF) is 1 channel.
2W. The Chinese public service radios are only 0.5W (and with a tiddly
antenna), so even if these are readily available, they might not be
quite suitable.

For China, it will be part a question of protecting their own industry
and partly a national security issue.

Importing two-way radios into China would probably not be threatening
their own industry. They probably originated there in the first place!

Given its history, national security is likely to be a particularly
important issue in Tibet.

It says in
http://tel_archives.ofca.gov.hk/en/a.../nsp2002p3.pdf

"In December 2001, the Ministry of Information Industry of China
announced that short-range portable radio transceivers, or
"walkie-talkies",
operating in the band 409.7500 – 409.9875 MHz with transmitter power not
exceeding 0.5W were exempted from licensing."

Presumably these are legal to use throughout all of China - but you
never know. In certain countries, being legal does not guarantee you
won't have problems. Only a couple of weeks ago, a German radio amateur,
operating absolutely 100% legally when on holiday in Greece, was
arrested and hauled before the courts. I believe he is back home, but
may need to return for a full trial.
http://www.southgatearc.org/news/jun..._arrested_in_g
reece.htm
and links.
--
Ian

On Jun 19, 9:47*am, Ian Jackson
wrote:
In message , David Woolley
writesIan Jackson wrote:

Probably the easiest way of getting radios for use in Tibet is to
source them locally, and get them shipped to a convenient collection
point. *China and Hong Kong are certainly not short of manufacturers!

Even for an American in the UK, that would be the best approach, as
radios not specifically approved for PMR 446 are not covered by the
class licence.

I note that the OP's intended radio (Motorola Spirit UHF) is 1 channel.
2W. The Chinese public service radios are only 0.5W (and with a tiddly
antenna), so even if these are readily available, they might not be
quite suitable.

For China, it will be part a question of protecting their own industry
and partly a national security issue.

Importing two-way radios into China would probably not be threatening
their own industry. They probably originated there in the first place!

Given its history, national security is likely to be a particularly
important issue in Tibet.

It says inhttp://tel_archives.ofca.gov.hk/en/ad-comm/tsac/ns-paper/nsp2002p3.pdf

"In December 2001, the Ministry of Information Industry of China
announced that short-range portable radio transceivers, or
"walkie-talkies",
operating in the band 409.7500 – 409.9875 MHz with transmitter power not
exceeding 0.5W were exempted from licensing."

Presumably these are legal to use throughout all of China - but you
never know. In certain countries, being legal does not guarantee you
won't have problems. Only a couple of weeks ago, a German radio amateur,
operating absolutely 100% legally when on holiday in Greece, was
arrested and hauled before the courts. I believe he is back home, but
may need to return for a full trial.
http://www.southgatearc.org/news/jun..._arrested_in_g
reece.htm
and links.
--
Ian

If he was in the rightr then he was in the right.

Holiday insurance should cover that and I'd be seeking legal redress
from the Greeks if there are any avenues to pursue.

As I've always preached - take no s***t from anyone especially
when you have right on your side.

Analogue Lettuce wrote:

As I've always preached - take no s***t from anyone especially
when you have right on your side.


It's good advice for him to remember when he is serving his 5 month jail
sentence for refusing to turn over his log files, because he refused to
give them a laptop which had nothing to do with his radio operation.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379

Jeff wrote:

Even for an American in the UK, that would be the best approach, as
radios not specifically approved for PMR 446 are not covered by the
class licence.

That is not the case, type approval went out of the window some years
ago now. The radio but just meet the relevant Interface Requirement.
Specific approval is not required.

Unless Ofcom has failed to update their information, it also has to have
things like a permanently attached antenna, absolute power limits, etc.,
basically to make it non-trivial to modify outside of the specification.
As pointed out elsewhere, the proposed equipment doesn't comply with
those conditions, so wouldn't have been legal for PMR 446 use.

I used approved loosely, to mean designed to meet the conditions of the
licence exemption.

On 19/06/12 9:30 PM, David Woolley wrote:

Unless Ofcom has failed to update their information, it also has to have
things like a permanently attached antenna,

Where in the current interface requirement does it say anything about a
permanently attached antenna?

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...nts/IR2009.pdf

Laurie

In message m, Laurie
writes
On 19/06/12 9:30 PM, David Woolley wrote:

Unless Ofcom has failed to update their information, it also has to have
things like a permanently attached antenna,

Where in the current interface requirement does it say anything about a
permanently attached antenna?

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...m-policy-area/
spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements
/IR2009.pdf

That seems to be a fairly brief summary. More detail is in the older RA
document:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archi...info/ra357.htm

"5. RADIO EQUIPMENT
PMR 446 radio equipment must be handportable, have an integral antenna,
have a maximum ERP of 500 mW and be compliant with ETS 300 296."

I doubt if they have changed the technical specs.
--
Ian

On 20/06/12 9:55 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message m, Laurie
writes
On 19/06/12 9:30 PM, David Woolley wrote:

Unless Ofcom has failed to update their information, it also has to have
things like a permanently attached antenna,

Where in the current interface requirement does it say anything about
a permanently attached antenna?

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...m-policy-area/
spectrum-management/research-guidelines-tech-info/interface-requirements
/IR2009.pdf

That seems to be a fairly brief summary. More detail is in the older RA
document:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archi...info/ra357.htm

"5. RADIO EQUIPMENT
PMR 446 radio equipment must be handportable, have an integral antenna,
have a maximum ERP of 500 mW and be compliant with ETS 300 296."

I doubt if they have changed the technical specs.

But change the specs. is exactly what they have done.
ra357 is only there as an archive and is no longer the applicable
document. The current interface document is IR2009.

Laurie

On Jun 21, 7:18*am, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:35:53 +0100, Laurie
wrote:

Where in the current interface requirement does it say anything about a
permanently attached antenna?

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bin...trum-policy-ar...

http://tinyurl.com/66pyfxa

Which is the document that I have continually referered to on here
many time, but no one listens ;-)

Specifically -

Converted radio equipment

If modifications are made to the equipment, such as adding an antenna
connector, the overall maximum ERP or other technical parameters must
not exceed the permitted levels set out in the Interface Requirement.

---

Problem solved.