The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

With the arrival of the Raspberry Pi 0 at £5, and with the basis of
a complete QRP TRX for the Raspberyy Pi already having been
published, (see hackaday.com) and as most of what makes for a modern TRX is
not
the RF paths but encapsulated in software, is this the start of the
slippery path for the emporia who sell rigs with vast profit margins?

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:05:07 -0000, "gareth"
wrote:

With the arrival of the Raspberry Pi 0 at £5, and with the basis of
a complete QRP TRX for the Raspberyy Pi already having been
published, (see hackaday.com) and as most of what makes for a modern TRX is
not
the RF paths but encapsulated in software, is this the start of the
slippery path for the emporia who sell rigs with vast profit margins?


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

"Rambo" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:05:07 -0000, "gareth"
wrote:

With the arrival of the Raspberry Pi 0 at £5, and with the basis of
a complete QRP TRX for the Raspberyy Pi already having been
published, (see hackaday.com) and as most of what makes for a modern TRX
is
not
the RF paths but encapsulated in software, is this the start of the
slippery path for the emporia who sell rigs with vast profit margins?


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........

Kanji, Hiragana or Katakana?

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios, especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

"gareth" wrote in
:

"Rambo" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 12:05:07 -0000, "gareth"
wrote:

With the arrival of the Raspberry Pi 0 at £5, and with the basis of
a complete QRP TRX for the Raspberyy Pi already having been
published, (see hackaday.com) and as most of what makes for a modern
TRX is
not
the RF paths but encapsulated in software, is this the start of the
slippery path for the emporia who sell rigs with vast profit margins?


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........

Kanji, Hiragana or Katakana?



Usually all three.

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/2015 12:05, gareth wrote:
With the arrival of the Raspberry Pi 0 at £5, and with the basis of
a complete QRP TRX for the Raspberyy Pi already having been
published, (see hackaday.com) and as most of what makes for a modern TRX is
not
the RF paths but encapsulated in software, is this the start of the
slippery path for the emporia who sell rigs with vast profit margins?



don't wish too hard the alinco line has now BEEN RUINED turned into crap
chinky stuff...compare the DR135MK3 WITH THE new cheaper DR138 CHINKY
NEW MODEL...CRAP

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios, especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/2015 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios, especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).

Mmmm quality I had a NCX5....It always reminded me of star trek.....nice
analog digital readout Mmmmm
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios, especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/2015 21:54, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.
There is good and there is cheap flood the market good .....

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios, especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack sold
Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was bad, but it
was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how to make
good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded, they were
buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the summer of
1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters going to Japan
and asking for a design and mostly an existing design that Hallicrafters
put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the early seventies, a
portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other names. SOme of the best
inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the existing US base being tube
rigs intended for cars and the relatively expensive Motorola Handie
Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as rebadged or Inoue and Standard
etc. There wasn't much made in the US, at least not capable of making
enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios, especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

DIdn't the same thing happen in the UK? There were some UK based ham
manufacturers, didn't they too fade with the rise of the Japanese rigs?

Michael

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 11/30/2015 4:54 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

These were amongst the best radios around - especially Collins, which
was made to military specifications. But they couldn't compete with the
Japanese manufacturers with their low overhead.

Obviously, however, you have never owned any of these pieces of
equipment. While not having all of the features of newer gear, I would
still stack a Collins S-Line over anything manufactured today. Maybe
that's why they still run $2K US on the used market.

OTOH, I never saw anything worthwhile coming out of the UK. The only
decent radios from Europe were German.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 11/30/2015 6:57 PM, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack
sold Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was bad,
but it was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how
to make good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded,
they were buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the
summer of 1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters
going to Japan and asking for a design and mostly an existing design
that Hallicrafters put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the
early seventies, a portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other
names. SOme of the best inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the
existing US base being tube rigs intended for cars and the relatively
expensive Motorola Handie Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as
rebadged or Inoue and Standard etc. There wasn't much made in the US,
at least not capable of making enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

Yes, there was some transition period when American manufacturers built
their equipment in Japan, due to the lower cost of labor (and parts).
But those American manufacturers required the Japanese to build the
equipment to the same specifications as the American factories did.

As a result, the American manufacturers were able to build cheaper, but
the Japanese got more experience in designing and manufacturing better
quality equipment. While American manufacturers won the economic
battle, Japanese manufacturers won the war.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:25:44 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
wrote:

ns as the American factories did.

As a result, the American manufacturers were able to build cheaper, but
the Japanese got more experience in designing and manufacturing better
quality equipment. While American manufacturers won the economic
battle, Japanese manufacturers won the war.

They've been taking revenge for Hiroshima for decades.

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 11/30/2015 7:31 PM, Rambo wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:25:44 -0500, Jerry Stuckle
wrote:

ns as the American factories did.

As a result, the American manufacturers were able to build cheaper, but
the Japanese got more experience in designing and manufacturing better
quality equipment. While American manufacturers won the economic
battle, Japanese manufacturers won the war.

They've been taking revenge for Hiroshima for decades.


Yup, if you can't beat them with military, do it with economics!

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/2015 23:57, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack
sold Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was bad,
but it was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how
to make good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded,
they were buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the
summer of 1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters
going to Japan and asking for a design and mostly an existing design
that Hallicrafters put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the
early seventies, a portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other
names. SOme of the best inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the
existing US base being tube rigs intended for cars and the relatively
expensive Motorola Handie Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as
rebadged or Inoue and Standard etc. There wasn't much made in the US,
at least not capable of making enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

you certainly know your radio history ...but I still want another Clegg
FM27B .......you will be about the only person who would know what that
is....

Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/2015 23:58, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65
the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable'
radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an
FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The
quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

DIdn't the same thing happen in the UK? There were some UK based ham
manufacturers, didn't they too fade with the rise of the Japanese rigs?

Michael
yes KW went west because couldn't compete as it was run by one english
bloke called Rowley Spears not a patch on Mr Hagasawa or Mr Inoue .....

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 01/12/2015 00:17, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:54 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

These were amongst the best radios around - especially Collins, which
was made to military specifications. But they couldn't compete with the
Japanese manufacturers with their low overhead.

Obviously, however, you have never owned any of these pieces of
equipment. While not having all of the features of newer gear, I would
still stack a Collins S-Line over anything manufactured today. Maybe
that's why they still run $2K US on the used market.

OTOH, I never saw anything worthwhile coming out of the UK. The only
decent radios from Europe were German.

yes all those big headed professional radio and electronics people in
the UK couldn't run a menage .....

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

If that is intended as some jibe, it failed.


Rich coming from you!

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 01/12/2015 00:17, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:54 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

These were amongst the best radios around - especially Collins, which
was made to military specifications. But they couldn't compete with the
Japanese manufacturers with their low overhead.

Obviously, however, you have never owned any of these pieces of
equipment. While not having all of the features of newer gear, I would
still stack a Collins S-Line over anything manufactured today. Maybe
that's why they still run $2K US on the used market.

OTOH, I never saw anything worthwhile coming out of the UK. The only
decent radios from Europe were German.

spot on OM ...

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

yes KW went west because couldn't compete as it was run by one english
bloke called Rowley Spears not a patch on Mr Hagasawa or Mr Inoue .....

don't know about Ken Wood though ......

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/2015 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:


Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


You are right there. The consumer stuff that Japan kicked out in the
60's was un-repairable rubbish. The problem was that it was very cheap
and did work for a while - long enough to spell the end of at least one
quality manufacturer of domestic radio in Britain.

On the other hand, I recall handling some very well made Japanese
electronic instrumentation at the time.

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 12/1/2015 1:47 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:54 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

These were amongst the best radios around - especially Collins, which
was made to military specifications. But they couldn't compete with the
Japanese manufacturers with their low overhead.

Building to military specs for the commercial market is hardly good
business when you can obtain the same required performance for far less.


Then why does a Collins S-Line in good condition still sell for $2K
US, despite limited features? The fact is, they still outperform
anything on the market.



Obviously, however, you have never owned any of these pieces of
equipment. While not having all of the features of newer gear, I would
still stack a Collins S-Line over anything manufactured today. Maybe
that's why they still run $2K US on the used market.


There are many reasons people will pay such prices but performance isn't a
key factor.

That's where you are wrong.


OTOH, I never saw anything worthwhile coming out of the UK. The only
decent radios from Europe were German.


If that is intended as some jibe, it failed.



So what came out of the UK?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 12/1/2015 3:03 AM, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 30/11/2015 23:57, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65
the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until
later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack
sold Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was bad,
but it was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how
to make good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded,
they were buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the
summer of 1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters
going to Japan and asking for a design and mostly an existing design
that Hallicrafters put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the
early seventies, a portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other
names. SOme of the best inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the
existing US base being tube rigs intended for cars and the relatively
expensive Motorola Handie Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as
rebadged or Inoue and Standard etc. There wasn't much made in the US,
at least not capable of making enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

you certainly know your radio history ...but I still want another Clegg
FM27B .......you will be about the only person who would know what that
is....

Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

Ah, yes, the good old FM27B. Big for a 2M rig, but one of (if not the)
first rig you didn't need to buy a pair of crystals for every channel.
I never had one, but had a couple of friends with them.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 01/12/2015 12:55, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 12/1/2015 3:03 AM, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 30/11/2015 23:57, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65
the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable, cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until
later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack
sold Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was bad,
but it was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how
to make good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded,
they were buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the
summer of 1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters
going to Japan and asking for a design and mostly an existing design
that Hallicrafters put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the
early seventies, a portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other
names. SOme of the best inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the
existing US base being tube rigs intended for cars and the relatively
expensive Motorola Handie Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as
rebadged or Inoue and Standard etc. There wasn't much made in the US,
at least not capable of making enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

you certainly know your radio history ...but I still want another Clegg
FM27B .......you will be about the only person who would know what that
is....

Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

Ah, yes, the good old FM27B. Big for a 2M rig, but one of (if not the)
first rig you didn't need to buy a pair of crystals for every channel.
I never had one, but had a couple of friends with them.

they were great...you had to net the tx to the rx such fun ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOz9wQq74Fk

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 12/1/2015 10:41 AM, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 01/12/2015 12:55, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 12/1/2015 3:03 AM, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 30/11/2015 23:57, Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for £65
the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from
the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old
Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars
out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable' radios.
But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an FT60.
Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The quality
was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying to
break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the narrower
range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more
demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long
ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people
want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable,
cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable
transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


There was a transition. Early on, for reason I've never seen, Japan
was
seen as cheap knockoffs in the US. That had to exist, but they also
had
legit stuff, though maybe we simply didn't see the Sony stuff until
later.

But Japan made inroads via relabelling. So Lafayette and Radio Shack
sold Japanese gear, except under their only labels. Some of it was
bad,
but it was early transistor period, it didn't seem like anyone knew how
to make good solid state equipment. As the big names in the US faded,
they were buying Japanese. So my Hallicrafters S-120A, bought in the
summer of 1971, was Japanese, I assume less a case of Hallicrafters
going to Japan and asking for a design and mostly an existing design
that Hallicrafters put their name on it. Drake had the TR-22 in the
early seventies, a portable 2M FM rig that could be had under other
names. SOme of the best inraods was because of the rise of 2M FM, the
existing US base being tube rigs intended for cars and the relatively
expensive Motorola Handie Talkies. So the Japanese came in either as
rebadged or Inoue and Standard etc. There wasn't much made in the US,
at least not capable of making enough.

ANd the Japanese also came via distributors. SOme of the big name ham
distributors had HF rigs under their own name, it was only after that
success that we started to see Yaesu and Kenwood coming under their own
name.

Michael

you certainly know your radio history ...but I still want another Clegg
FM27B .......you will be about the only person who would know what that
is....

Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

Ah, yes, the good old FM27B. Big for a 2M rig, but one of (if not the)
first rig you didn't need to buy a pair of crystals for every channel.
I never had one, but had a couple of friends with them.

they were great...you had to net the tx to the rx such fun ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOz9wQq74Fk


Ah, yes. It brings back memories. And that was actually a rig you
could work on. It wasn't so compact you needed an electron microscope
to see the parts and so densely packed a microbe couldn't move around :)
But it was a good rig.

But if you look at it closely, it's receiving on what looks like 146.69,
which is not a valid channel in the U.S. It must be in another country
- I don't know what the channels are in Europe, for instance.

And it's transmitting on 146.67 (which is a repeater *output* in the
U.S.) or 146.68 (not valid). But that wouldn't be a good combination
for either simplex or a repeater.

Going back a little further - do you remember the Galaxy FM-210?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 01/12/2015 16:09, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
Galaxy FM-210
em no ...the clegg and the drake tr22 six channel xtal job is about as
far back as I go ....with 2m stuff anyway...a bit more modern was
playing with a weird tri-band drake uv3 in 1979 ....about as modern as I
went with merrycan gear ....

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 12/1/2015 11:20 AM, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 01/12/2015 16:09, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
Galaxy FM-210
em no ...the clegg and the drake tr22 six channel xtal job is about as
far back as I go ....with 2m stuff anyway...a bit more modern was
playing with a weird tri-band drake uv3 in 1979 ....about as modern as I
went with merrycan gear ....


The FM-210 was the first solid state FM rig made for 2M ham bands, if
not the first 2M FM rig specifically for the ham bands. Before that
came out, we used converted tube-type Motorola "G" and "A" strips and GE
Prog lines.

Converting these from VHF high band (150-174Mhz) was pretty easy.
Change crystals, add a few pf to the receiver front end and transmitter
output circuit and it would tune right up. But most were single
channel; if you found a dual channel one you were in hog heaven.

And the current drain - most had vibrator power supplies, although a few
older ones had dynamotors. 10-25W, depending on the model, and would
pull 8-10 amps in receive and up to 20 amps keyed.

Those were the good old days, when you could actually work on stuff
(like you could cars).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 01/12/2015 16:50, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 12/1/2015 11:20 AM, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
On 01/12/2015 16:09, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
Galaxy FM-210
em no ...the clegg and the drake tr22 six channel xtal job is about as
far back as I go ....with 2m stuff anyway...a bit more modern was
playing with a weird tri-band drake uv3 in 1979 ....about as modern as I
went with merrycan gear ....


The FM-210 was the first solid state FM rig made for 2M ham bands, if
not the first 2M FM rig specifically for the ham bands. Before that
came out, we used converted tube-type Motorola "G" and "A" strips and GE
Prog lines.

Converting these from VHF high band (150-174Mhz) was pretty easy.
Change crystals, add a few pf to the receiver front end and transmitter
output circuit and it would tune right up. But most were single
channel; if you found a dual channel one you were in hog heaven.

And the current drain - most had vibrator power supplies, although a few
older ones had dynamotors. 10-25W, depending on the model, and would
pull 8-10 amps in receive and up to 20 amps keyed.

Those were the good old days, when you could actually work on stuff
(like you could cars).

yes but you can still work on cars if you are OBD2 equipped to figure
out what bit to replace...!

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/album?album_id=3404690477

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 01/12/15 18:38, Michael Black wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for
Ä¢65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from
the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old
Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars
out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable'
radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an
FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The
quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying
to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the
narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more
demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long
ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people
want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable,
cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable
transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

DIdn't the same thing happen in the UK? There were some UK based ham
manufacturers, didn't they too fade with the rise of the Japanese rigs?


Absolutely. The same has happened in other areas. My comment wasn't in
anyway 'anti' US. If anything the US has a better track record of
adapting
to the problems of having to compete with such competition. We've been
saddled with short sighted management, Unions, and Government policies.

Actually, my comment was to acknowledge that the UK had some of their
own manufacturers, something that's easy to forget over here in North
America. I can't even remember the famous one, though I do remember
Eddystone.

Michael


You may be thinking of Racal.

As for recognising our manufacturers, you are quite correct. However,
while Jerry seemed to think I was bashing Collins etc., in fact my
comments were far more about the way established companies (including in
the UK) can fail to see where the market is heading. Conversely, the
Japanese (and others since) have tended to be much more market aware.



--
Why you should not ignore animal neglect and cruelty:
http://www.caar-uk.org/why.html

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 01/12/15 18:38, Michael Black wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

Michael Black wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, Brian Reay wrote:

On 30/11/15 21:47, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 11/30/2015 4:19 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
On 30/11/15 20:06, turdey wrote:
Brian Reay Wrote in message:
On 30/11/15 12:50, Rambo wrote:


And when you can pick up a chinese dual band mobile radio for
Ä¢65 the
writing is surely on the wall for the Japanese Companies.........


While the cheap Chinese radios are good value, their overall
package of
performance, facilities, quality, etc. are still a long way from
the
offerings of the established manufacturers in the field.

For a parallel, think about what happened with Lada, the old
Skodas,
etc. They didn't put the makers of quality more expensive cars
out of
business.

There is a place for the 'cheap and cheerful' Chinese radios,
especially
the amazing cheap VHF/UHF handhelds as all but 'disposable'
radios. But
even the better ones don't really compare overall to, say, an
FT60. Even
those which set out to be apparent competitors (like the early
Baofeng
vs the V?8*) were not that comparable in terms of quality and
ergonomics.

(I can't recall if it was the VX8 or the VR8.)

Those with a long association with the hobby will recall the Navico
radios, which were claimed to be a cheap alternative to the various
Japanese mobiles. However, the number sold was pitiful. The
quality was
good but the overall 'package' was, at best, disappointing- not
least as
the manufacturer (who has a good history in marine kit) failed to
recognise what the market saw as key facilities. There are other
examples, including the various Garex radios.

In fact the Navico example is a good example of someone trying
to break
into the amateur market but thinking they could offer the
narrower range
of facilities which were applicable to their core business. They
simply
offered what was, essentially, a PMR/Marine radio to a more
demanding
customer who had better alternatives.








Surely this is what we said about the Japanese stuff not so long
ago?


Not really. The Japanese are pretty good at providing what people
want.
Look at radios like the FT101, a doddle to operate, reliable,
cheap (as
things went), etc.

Actually, most Japanese stuff was considered pretty cheap and poor
quality back in the 60's, at least here in the U.S. There wasn't much
(if any) for ham gear at the time, but the did have portable
transistor
radios, stereos and other electronic equipment.

The vast majority of the good ham gear used here was American made
(Drake, World Radio Labs, Heathkit, Collins, etc.).


Obviously that is why they are no longer in the market.

DIdn't the same thing happen in the UK? There were some UK based ham
manufacturers, didn't they too fade with the rise of the Japanese rigs?


Absolutely. The same has happened in other areas. My comment wasn't in
anyway 'anti' US. If anything the US has a better track record of
adapting
to the problems of having to compete with such competition. We've been
saddled with short sighted management, Unions, and Government policies.

Actually, my comment was to acknowledge that the UK had some of their
own manufacturers, something that's easy to forget over here in North
America. I can't even remember the famous one, though I do remember
Eddystone.

Michael


You may be thinking of Racal.

No, but I hadn't temporarily forgotten Racal. I gather the one with the
Wadley Loop was intended to be on par with the Collins R390.

It wsa "KW" that I was thinking of, and I thought there was more to it, so
I hesitated. That's the most obvious amateur radio company that I can
think of from the UK. I remember reading older issue of CQ, and a woman
wrote often about things in the UK, her husband and son were hams, and
there'd be pictures of the KW Electronics equipment.

As for recognising our manufacturers, you are quite correct. However, while
Jerry seemed to think I was bashing Collins etc., in fact my comments were
far more about the way established companies (including in the UK) can fail
to see where the market is heading. Conversely, the Japanese (and others
since) have tended to be much more market aware.

Yes. The Collins S line (and KWM-2) came out about 1959, I have the issue
of CQ where there is a color insert introducing the line, and and over a
decade later they were still selling it. They didn't change the line
until after Rockwell bought Collins. A lot of those US companies failed
fro a variety of reasons, I gather some of it because they relied on
Military orders, but also they didn't adapt that much, and especially to
solid state. National had the HRO-500 in 1964 and some ham transceivers
in the rest of the sixties, but that was about it. By the time they
issued the HRO-600, there were a relative few made, and it was intended
for government use (ie too expensive for hams). Hallicrafters adapted by
rebadging Japanese solid state gear. I gather some of the problem wasn't
just an inability to get into solid state, but if you were wiring up tube
radios to sell, you'd have to retool to adjust to solid state, especially
with circuit boards. Even the traditional electronic parts stores here
(which also were the places to get ham equipment) mostly disappeared in
the seventies, too stuck with the old tube type parts, new companies
coming along to sell the solid state devices.

Michael

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On Tue, 1 Dec 2015 09:47:28 +0000, lordgnome wrote:

You are right there. The consumer stuff that Japan kicked out in the
60's was un-repairable rubbish. The problem was that it was very cheap
and did work for a while - long enough to spell the end of at least one
quality manufacturer of domestic radio in Britain.

On the other hand, I recall handling some very well made Japanese
electronic instrumentation at the time.

Its all down to specifications.
You get what you pay for.

The Japanese manufacturers were under going radical re-arrangements
after WWII.
After the WWII, MacArthur (sp??) and Co were in there getting the place
back up & running. Some specialist people from America were brought over
to give advice to manufacturers and with their help and guidance things
got moving again.
The results were not bad at first but the industry went about learning
what it was doing wrong and correcting itself through self-monitoring
and awareness and corretions.
They learned and adjusted to become a world beating source of high end
products.
Meanwhile back in Europe and America the same methods that were helping
Japan improve were largely ignored until it became obvious that Japan
was actually passing them by.

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

wrote in message
...
After the WWII, MacArthur (sp??) and Co were in there getting the place
back up & running. Some specialist people from America were brought over
to give advice to manufacturers and with their help and guidance things
got moving again.
The results were not bad at first but the industry went about learning
what it was doing wrong and correcting itself through self-monitoring
and awareness and corretions.
They learned and adjusted to become a world beating source of high end
products.
Meanwhile back in Europe and America the same methods that were helping
Japan improve were largely ignored until it became obvious that Japan
was actually passing them by.


I thought it was when Japan ran out of all the low quality American beer
cans the quality improved.

I remember taking a tour of a local TV station around 1970. They mentioned
having a few cameras made in Japan that were beter than the American
cameras. They said as soon as they could they would replace all of them
with the ones from Japan.

I was thinking that in the eairly computer days Japan was selling memory
chips at a loss to put the American companies out of business. Looks like
China may be doing it now to Japan. I have had several of the HTs from
China and they seem to work as well as any of the Icom andYeasues I have had
in the past. Now I can get a whole HT cheeper than the replacement
batteries for the other HTs.

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 01/12/2015 21:26, Ralph Mowery wrote:
wrote in message
...
After the WWII, MacArthur (sp??) and Co were in there getting the place
back up & running. Some specialist people from America were brought over
to give advice to manufacturers and with their help and guidance things
got moving again.
The results were not bad at first but the industry went about learning
what it was doing wrong and correcting itself through self-monitoring
and awareness and corretions.
They learned and adjusted to become a world beating source of high end
products.
Meanwhile back in Europe and America the same methods that were helping
Japan improve were largely ignored until it became obvious that Japan
was actually passing them by.


I thought it was when Japan ran out of all the low quality American beer
cans the quality improved.

I remember taking a tour of a local TV station around 1970. They mentioned
having a few cameras made in Japan that were beter than the American
cameras. They said as soon as they could they would replace all of them
with the ones from Japan.

I was thinking that in the eairly computer days Japan was selling memory
chips at a loss to put the American companies out of business. Looks like
China may be doing it now to Japan. I have had several of the HTs from
China and they seem to work as well as any of the Icom andYeasues I have had
in the past. Now I can get a whole HT cheeper than the replacement
batteries for the other HTs.


http://derbyimages.woot.com/cakalusa...p-tokprx-d.jpg



--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On Tue, 1 Dec 2015, Ralph Mowery wrote:


wrote in message
...
After the WWII, MacArthur (sp??) and Co were in there getting the place
back up & running. Some specialist people from America were brought over
to give advice to manufacturers and with their help and guidance things
got moving again.
The results were not bad at first but the industry went about learning
what it was doing wrong and correcting itself through self-monitoring
and awareness and corretions.
They learned and adjusted to become a world beating source of high end
products.
Meanwhile back in Europe and America the same methods that were helping
Japan improve were largely ignored until it became obvious that Japan
was actually passing them by.


I thought it was when Japan ran out of all the low quality American beer
cans the quality improved.

I remember taking a tour of a local TV station around 1970. They mentioned
having a few cameras made in Japan that were beter than the American
cameras. They said as soon as they could they would replace all of them
with the ones from Japan.

I was thinking that in the eairly computer days Japan was selling memory
chips at a loss to put the American companies out of business. Looks like
China may be doing it now to Japan. I have had several of the HTs from
China and they seem to work as well as any of the Icom andYeasues I have had
in the past. Now I can get a whole HT cheeper than the replacement
batteries for the other HTs.



I had thought about one of those Chinese walkie talkies.

But then I was at a garage sale in June, and someone had an Icom 02-at(?)
for sixty dollars, and I grabbed it. Yes it's old and heavy, but I suspect
I am getting more for the money. I remember when those came out, I guess
it was a Tempo first, with the BCD switches to change channels, this being
a later variant with a pad and LCD display. Oddly, despite being licensed
since 1972, this was my first 2M walkie talkie. I never had enough
interest to spend the money, though I had a chance circa 1980 to get one
of those Tempo ones relatively cheap, AED Electronics had bought one to
create a scanner for it, and then it was surplus.

Michael

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1512012027250.10269@darkstar. example.org...
But then I was at a garage sale in June, and someone had an Icom 02-at(?)
for sixty dollars, and I grabbed it. Yes it's old and heavy, but I suspect
I am getting more for the money. I remember when those came out, I guess
it was a Tempo first, with the BCD switches to change channels, this being
a later variant with a pad and LCD display. Oddly, despite being licensed
since 1972, this was my first 2M walkie talkie. I never had enough
interest to spend the money, though I had a chance circa 1980 to get one
of those Tempo ones relatively cheap, AED Electronics had bought one to
create a scanner for it, and then it was surplus.


I was licensed about the same time. My first Ht was and Icom with the thumb
switches on the top. The others were the Yaesus. I did not have the Icom 02
so can not compair to that one.

Not sure how long the battery will last on the HT you bought, but the China
HT can be bought for what a new battery will cost. The China is dual band,
has slightly more power, over 100 memories, does 144 and 440 bands plus much
out of band coverage if you want, has an FM broadcast receiver, battery last
longer.
If you do have problems with the $ 30 China unit, toss it and get another.
I know about a dozen that have had them and no problems.

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 30/11/2015 21:34, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
don't wish too hard the alinco line has now BEEN RUINED turned into crap
chinky stuff...compare the DR135MK3 WITH THE new cheaper DR138 CHINKY
NEW MODEL...CRAP

read this good-bye alinco ....

https://hamgear.wordpress.com/2014/1...as-we-know-it/

--
Man at Oxfam
All things DIGITAL do not work
No spare wheel isn't progress
Class A radio hams do exist
A rubber cam belt is not acceptable
I never asked to join the Freemasons

The end of the profiteering emporia?
 

On 02/12/15 04:20, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1512012027250.10269@darkstar. example.org...
But then I was at a garage sale in June, and someone had an Icom 02-at(?)
for sixty dollars, and I grabbed it. Yes it's old and heavy, but I suspect
I am getting more for the money. I remember when those came out, I guess
it was a Tempo first, with the BCD switches to change channels, this being
a later variant with a pad and LCD display. Oddly, despite being licensed
since 1972, this was my first 2M walkie talkie. I never had enough
interest to spend the money, though I had a chance circa 1980 to get one
of those Tempo ones relatively cheap, AED Electronics had bought one to
create a scanner for it, and then it was surplus.


I was licensed about the same time. My first Ht was and Icom with the thumb
switches on the top. The others were the Yaesus. I did not have the Icom 02
so can not compair to that one.

That range of Icoms used removable battery packs which had the
advantage that they screwed together and could be refilled with new
cells. The pack also has a small constant current and simple 'trickle'
charger built into the pack. I've got a couple of 25 year old IC32Es
which I have several BP8 (?) packs for which were ex-PMR and I've
refilled with new cells (NiMH) and adapted the charger accordingly.

The 32E is a bit of a 'brick' but does what is needed.

I've several of the Chinese radios (we've 5 licensees in the family) and
they are certainly good value.

73
Brian
G8OSN/W8OSN



--
Why you should not ignore animal neglect and cruelty:
http://www.caar-uk.org/why.html