On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 20:36:12 GMT, "Dan/W4NTI"
wrote:

No waviering here. The ARS proides usefull service, mostly in keeping
H&W stuff off the plate of those with better things to do.

It does not properly replace the system used by the cops as witness the
keystone cops bummbling we see and here about

the ARS is not saving the day or saving civilation, it is hellp people
lessen the impact of the disaster, what I have been saying all along

As usual our resident dissident has no idea what he is talking about. Here
in Alabama we have provided the operators to man the shelters for the Red
Cross on the Gulf Coast. They have, and ARE providing the ONLY
communications between the shelters and Red Cross HQS in Montgomery.

The Alabama Net and other groups are providing links further down the line.

Dan/W4NTI

He obviously doesn't know much about ARES/RACES. If he did, he would
know that Health and Welfare messages have the LOWEST priority after
emergency and priority traffic. There has been incident after
incident where ARES/RACES was the ONLY communication out of a disaster
area. Let alone communication with the Red Cross. The fire at Los
Alamos New Mexico is a prime example. When the phones are out, and
the public service radios fail, who do they call? ARES/RACES. The
military can handle it, but as we have seen it can take days for them
to get on site. ARS can get there within a few hours.

Dick - W6CCD

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:45:26 -0400, "Jerry"
wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...



As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
how expensive their home, or what they drive.

Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I am actually quite peaceable and believe in living and letting live in most
cases. Who I allow in my home is up to me and whom I refuse entry is not
the purvey of HOA Nazis. And, again, it is why I chose an older home
(1956) with plenty of room, almost ZERO crime, and NO
HOA's

That's why it is important to READ the CC&R's before you move into a
housing development with an HOA. If you have read them, and move in
anyway, you have no one to complain to except yourself. One good way
to temper what you refer to as HOA Nazis is to become a board member
yourself and do something about it. Having been an HOA board member,
I was disgusted with all the constant complainers at the meetings, but
not one of them was willing to lift a finger to help. Some people
apparently were just born to complain. HOA's can serve a useful
function, unless you are the type that enjoys living on a street with
dozens of junk cars that don't run, and weeds 4-feet high. People
agree to have HOA's so they can have a reasonably nice area in which
to live and raise their children. The protection of property values
is a prime consideration. No one forces someone to live in an area
with a HOA. From what I have seen, in several cities, most are not
as restrictive as those given in these examples.

Dick

On 09/14/05 04:25 pm Dick tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
how expensive their home, or what they drive.

Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)

I am actually quite peaceable and believe in living and letting live in most
cases. Who I allow in my home is up to me and whom I refuse entry is not
the purvey of HOA Nazis. And, again, it is why I chose an older home
(1956) with plenty of room, almost ZERO crime, and NO
HOA's

That's why it is important to READ the CC&R's before you move into a
housing development with an HOA. If you have read them, and move in
anyway, you have no one to complain to except yourself. One good way
to temper what you refer to as HOA Nazis is to become a board member
yourself and do something about it. Having been an HOA board member,
I was disgusted with all the constant complainers at the meetings, but
not one of them was willing to lift a finger to help. Some people
apparently were just born to complain. HOA's can serve a useful
function, unless you are the type that enjoys living on a street with
dozens of junk cars that don't run, and weeds 4-feet high. People
agree to have HOA's so they can have a reasonably nice area in which
to live and raise their children. The protection of property values
is a prime consideration. No one forces someone to live in an area
with a HOA. From what I have seen, in several cities, most are not
as restrictive as those given in these examples.

It's all very well to tell people not to buy houses with CC&Rs and HOAs,
but probably anything recent (last 20 years or so) has them. I've read
that the financial institutions that fund the developments insist on
them; they may not dictate every detail, but I think there are "model
rules" around that the developers copy, and these rules just about
require an application in triplicate 3 months in advance before you can
get permission to sneeze.

Perce

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:43:06 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:
It's all very well to tell people not to buy houses with CC&Rs and HOAs,
but probably anything recent (last 20 years or so) has them. I've read
that the financial institutions that fund the developments insist on
them; they may not dictate every detail, but I think there are "model
rules" around that the developers copy, and these rules just about
require an application in triplicate 3 months in advance before you can
get permission to sneeze.

Perce

CC&R's are very common today, but HOA's are far less common.
Typically, if you buy in a development by one or several builders, the
builders will create CC&R's (copied usually as you stated) primarily
to protect themselves. They don't want someone trashing the
neighborhood while they are attempting to sell new homes. It's still
very possible to buy land outside the cities where you can have a
custom home built without CC&R's. I have read CC&R's ad nauseam and
most of them are very reasonable in their requirements. In our area,
they deal primarily with things like property line setbacks, minimum
square footage, overall height, height of fences, minimum landscaping,
junk cars, etc. All things that most people would like to see some
degree of control over to protect the value of their property. If you
don't have an HOA, you are forced to sue someone to enforce the
CC&R's. Even with an HOA sometimes that becomes necessary, but then
the legal fees come out of the funds of the association, and not
directly out of your pocket.

Dick

Probably the best test is to determine how much money the HOA is
collecting. If they collect $100 per home for road maintenance, there is
little chance that they will accumulate a pot of money to hire lawyers
over a small infraction.On the other hand, if the neighborhood is full
of lawyers, or is collecting $1200 year per home for "general
maintenance" - watch out!

I found a neighborhood where the CC&R's essentially had a loophole
whereby if you built something that was not approved by the
architectural control committee (ACC) , and the ACC did not take action
(injunction) for 30 days, it was grandfathered. In other words, get it
built fast and keep a low profile for 30 days.

Finally, if you buy a 2 acre wooded lot, chances are nobody will see
what you are doing and will leave you alone.


Dick wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:43:06 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:


It's all very well to tell people not to buy houses with CC&Rs and HOAs,
but probably anything recent (last 20 years or so) has them. I've read
that the financial institutions that fund the developments insist on
them; they may not dictate every detail, but I think there are "model
rules" around that the developers copy, and these rules just about
require an application in triplicate 3 months in advance before you can
get permission to sneeze.

Perce



CC&R's are very common today, but HOA's are far less common.
Typically, if you buy in a development by one or several builders, the
builders will create CC&R's (copied usually as you stated) primarily
to protect themselves. They don't want someone trashing the
neighborhood while they are attempting to sell new homes. It's still
very possible to buy land outside the cities where you can have a
custom home built without CC&R's. I have read CC&R's ad nauseam and
most of them are very reasonable in their requirements. In our area,
they deal primarily with things like property line setbacks, minimum
square footage, overall height, height of fences, minimum landscaping,
junk cars, etc. All things that most people would like to see some
degree of control over to protect the value of their property. If you
don't have an HOA, you are forced to sue someone to enforce the
CC&R's. Even with an HOA sometimes that becomes necessary, but then
the legal fees come out of the funds of the association, and not
directly out of your pocket.

Dick



--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"

The Lost Deep Thoughts By: Jack Handey
Before a mad scientist goes mad, there's probably a time
when he's only partially mad. And this is the time when he's
going to throw his best parties.

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:45:26 -0400, "Jerry"
wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...



As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
how expensive their home, or what they drive.

Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I am actually quite peaceable and believe in living and letting live in
most
cases. Who I allow in my home is up to me and whom I refuse entry is not
the purvey of HOA Nazis. And, again, it is why I chose an older home
(1956) with plenty of room, almost ZERO crime, and NO
HOA's

That's why it is important to READ the CC&R's before you move into a
housing development with an HOA. If you have read them, and move in
anyway, you have no one to complain to except yourself. One good way
to temper what you refer to as HOA Nazis is to become a board member
yourself and do something about it. Having been an HOA board member,
I was disgusted with all the constant complainers at the meetings, but
not one of them was willing to lift a finger to help. Some people
apparently were just born to complain. HOA's can serve a useful
function, unless you are the type that enjoys living on a street with
dozens of junk cars that don't run, and weeds 4-feet high. People
agree to have HOA's so they can have a reasonably nice area in which
to live and raise their children. The protection of property values
is a prime consideration. No one forces someone to live in an area
with a HOA. From what I have seen, in several cities, most are not
as restrictive as those given in these examples.

Dick


Oh, I agree totally. It is why I made SURE there were no such things. To my
mind, if you do your research carefully BEFORE you buy, it ain't a problem.
I simply was not going to HAVE anyone telling me that, if my car broke down
and it sat there for awhile, but not "derelict", that I would have to move
it.

If you pick carefully, the economic factors will keep "riff raff" out of a
neighborhood; zoning and general city ordinances will take care of the rest.
In my city, if you let your grass grow over a certain height, the city will
come and cut it and charge you $100. Few people ever allow that to happen!

I simply refuse to knuckle under to ANY HOA or covenant-restricted
community, nor will I tolerate some busybody coming on MY land and telling
me what color I can paint my door, or how many antennas I can put up. I am a
quiet, non-obtrusive man, I keep my yard and house presentable, I mind my
own business; you would scarcely know I am there. But nobody is going to
regulate what happens on my property beyond reasonable safety and esthetics.
I just happen to feel VERY strongly about HOA's. If somebody tried to start
an HOA, I would REFUSE to join it (street maintenance is what I pay taxes
for!). If they start mouthing off to me about it, then they'd best go home
and, well......just be quiet. I'm having NO part of HOA's.

73

Jerry
K4KWH

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:25:40 -0700, Dick LeadWinger wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:45:26 -0400, "Jerry"
wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...



As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
how expensive their home, or what they drive.

Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)

--
?

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

I am actually quite peaceable and believe in living and letting live in most
cases. Who I allow in my home is up to me and whom I refuse entry is not
the purvey of HOA Nazis. And, again, it is why I chose an older home
(1956) with plenty of room, almost ZERO crime, and NO
HOA's

That's why it is important to READ the CC&R's before you move into a
housing development with an HOA. If you have read them, and move in
anyway, you have no one to complain to except yourself. One good way
to temper what you refer to as HOA Nazis is to become a board member
yourself and do something about it.


Not all that easy. My MIL became "treasurer" of her condo
association, but the clicque of other jerks did everything they could
to keep her away from any past books. She eventually found they were
sanctioning members who were a couple of months behind on their dues,
while many of the board members were in arrears for as much as 18
months.

Having been an HOA board member,
I was disgusted with all the constant complainers at the meetings, but
not one of them was willing to lift a finger to help. Some people
apparently were just born to complain. HOA's can serve a useful
function, unless you are the type that enjoys living on a street with
dozens of junk cars that don't run, and weeds 4-feet high. People
agree to have HOA's so they can have a reasonably nice area in which
to live and raise their children. The protection of property values
is a prime consideration. No one forces someone to live in an area
with a HOA. From what I have seen, in several cities, most are not
as restrictive as those given in these examples.

Dick

On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:43:06 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 09/14/05 04:25 pm Dick tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

As someone who lives near Ocala and has to visit a lot of these gated
communities run by HOAs, I find most of them to be jerks who are only
interested in holding onto their perceived power at any cost. The fact
that it hurts others doesn't matter to them. Another HOA in the area
told a retired couple move out, or send their 17 year old grand daughter
away after she lost both of her parents in an accident. She had a few
months till she was to graduate from high school and no other relatives
but it didn't matter to the HOA. People like that are scum, no matter
how expensive their home, or what they drive.

Its just too damn bad you can't tar and feather them and then run
them out of town, like the good old days! ;-)

I am actually quite peaceable and believe in living and letting live in most
cases. Who I allow in my home is up to me and whom I refuse entry is not
the purvey of HOA Nazis. And, again, it is why I chose an older home
(1956) with plenty of room, almost ZERO crime, and NO
HOA's

That's why it is important to READ the CC&R's before you move into a
housing development with an HOA. If you have read them, and move in
anyway, you have no one to complain to except yourself. One good way
to temper what you refer to as HOA Nazis is to become a board member
yourself and do something about it. Having been an HOA board member,
I was disgusted with all the constant complainers at the meetings, but
not one of them was willing to lift a finger to help. Some people
apparently were just born to complain. HOA's can serve a useful
function, unless you are the type that enjoys living on a street with
dozens of junk cars that don't run, and weeds 4-feet high. People
agree to have HOA's so they can have a reasonably nice area in which
to live and raise their children. The protection of property values
is a prime consideration. No one forces someone to live in an area
with a HOA. From what I have seen, in several cities, most are not
as restrictive as those given in these examples.

It's all very well to tell people not to buy houses with CC&Rs and HOAs,
but probably anything recent (last 20 years or so) has them. I've read
that the financial institutions that fund the developments insist on
them; they may not dictate every detail, but I think there are "model
rules" around that the developers copy, and these rules just about
require an application in triplicate 3 months in advance before you can
get permission to sneeze.

Perce

And twelve months advaance notice to stay at home after having
a baby.