RadioBanter - RFD: rec.radio.amateur.moderated moderated

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:24:31 -0500, Morkie Hojnacki did most oddly state:
"Bob Brock" wrote...
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:28:21 -0500, wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:49:50 -0500, Bob Brock wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:00:35 -0500, "Dr.Ace" wrote:
"Bob Brock" wrote...
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:44:45 -0500, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:36:30 -0500, Bob Brock wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:13:00 -0500, "KH6HZ" wrote:

Great proposal.

Can't wait to cast my vote for the affirmative.

The only dissenting opinion you'll find are those who wish to spew
their
sewage into a forum like such, and will otherwise be shut out from
doing
so.

73
KH6HZ

That's not true. I'll vote against it and you can hardly accuse me
of
being shut out since I left here years ago rather than waste many
hours accomplishing nothing constructive. The reason being that
this group is too polarized with no room for dissenting opinions.
No moderation is going to be impartial because no moderators are
impartial. Therefore, a moderated ng will not reflect the opinions
of
hams in general. Instead, they will reflect the opinions approved
by biased moderators.

My advice is to go to googlegroups, yahoogroups, or any of the
other *.groups and start your own moderated community/group there
instead of
trying to start your own moderated newsgroup on Usenet. It's a lot
easier.

I would say that without people whose only objective is to stifle
dissenting opinion gone, this would be a better newsgroup.
However, we all know that people will post to both newsgroups and
probably get banned for something that they posted here.

I had hoped that, once the code vs. no-code childishness was over,
these ng's would be useful again. I'm beginning to see that I was
wrong.

I'll try back here in a few years to see if things have improved
any.

please try this gruop agin in few months the Procder are through
crying and NoCoder are still waiting the very end of the matter

I am curious and doing reasearch on wether there is colaration of
being for or against this NG and ones stance on code testing I
respectly ask if you were either ProCode or Nocode or none of the
above I thank esp if you satisfy my curiousity

73

I am one of those that were alleged not to exist. I've waited for
over 10 years for code to go away before I would upgrade. However,
I decided that, rather than waste time here, my efforts would be
better spent actively trying to drag ham radio into the 20th
century.

That being said. I see no benefit to a moderated group and would not
participate in one. Self-moderation by all sides would go a long
ways. Establishing a moderated newsgroup on policy defeats it's own
purpose of providing open discussion.

Perhaps those who control the Big 8 will feel the same as myself.
Perhaps they won't. Either way, it's of no real consequence since I
have no interest in subscribing to such a newsgroup.

73

Hi All,
I've been following along the discussions.
And Mr. Brock, I have to say I personally am in favor of discussion of
the
NG's topic. Self-moderation has proven it's self to lead to name
calling,
personal attacks, CB'ers attacking hams and may more such useless
posts and
cross posts.
I agree with KH6HZ , who said

"Great proposal.
Can't wait to cast my vote for the affirmative."

I think KH6HZ has hit the nail on the head. I couldn't have said it
better.
73 all, Ace - WH2T

You guys do realize that you don't get to "vote" don't you? I guessing
that the constant referrals to getting to vote are some kind of an
inside joke.

could be that someonbody knows the Or thinks they know even more likely)
that the fix is in
http://kb9rqz.blogspot.com/

Given the lack of replies, I guess it wasn't an inside joke. Mark, why
do you worry about it so much? If they want a private country club type
atmosphere, and those who control the Big 8 don't mind allocating the
resources to it, why not let them have a little place of their own.
Don't worry, this place isn't going anywhere and they won't be able to
resist dropping by to do what they have always done before they retreat
back to the country club to brag.

Frankly, I see it as a waste of band space, but band space is cheap
these days. Look it as a consolation prize now that they have to share
all those HF frequencies with people who didn't lean the code, they can
at least have a little piece of cyberspace. Why the didn't go to Yahoo
groups or Myspacegroups still eludes me and no one has cared to reply.
Must be some kind of a prestige thing.

It's OK though, because I really don't care what they do or where they
do it. Freedom of speech is a great thing even if some have to feel
protected to exercise it.

You have been taken in by the oldest scam in ham radio. Your logs mean
nothing because you never did moonbounce after all and just talked to a
guy with a 100 mw qrp rig somewheres nearby. We are all laughing at you.

Hey, Wabbit, still frothing away about the out bisexual ham in your
group? Too bad it ain't the '50s anymore, eh?

--
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Hail Eris! mhm 29x21; TM#5; Chung Convict #39
Demon Lord of Confusion
COOSN-029-06-71069
Supreme High Overlord of rec.radio.*
Chuck Lysaght: Tarred & Feathered!

"Fredbot == SameAsB4 == TGOOS

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a veritable combination of Sherlock Holmes and Doc Savage for the 21st
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"Q: What do you call someone in the White House who is honest, caring,
and well-read?
A: A tourist." -- Anonymous

"It would be offly hard for any of you to abuse me on usenet. Really. I
have the advantage. I could easily turn alt.usenet.kooks into a cesspool
of encoded posts. Bringing the noise ratio up so high as to make the
group worthless. Anybody who can code could do this, why nobody has
bothered before now is beyond me. The ultimate spamming engine..
'BAWAHAHA'" -- Dustbin "Outer Filth" K00k's delusions of grandeur
reached new heights, in Message-ID:

"Immorality: The morality of those who are having a better time." -- H.
L. Mencken

"Consider that language a moment. 'Purposefully and materially
supported hostilities against the United States' is in the eye of the
beholder, and this administration has proven itself to be astonishingly
impatient with criticism of any kind. The broad powers given to Bush by
this legislation allow him to capture, indefinitely detain, and refuse a
hearing to any American citizen who speaks out against Iraq or any other
part of the so-called 'War on Terror.'

"If you write a letter to the editor attacking Bush, you could be
deemed as purposefully and materially supporting hostilities against the
United States. If you organize or join a public demonstration against
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you. One dark-comedy aspect of the legislation is that senators or House
members who publicly disagree with Bush, criticize him, or organize
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up." -- William Rivers Pitt

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the World the SATANIC WEAPON used to enslave mankind -- INTELLECTUAL
THOUGHT!!" -- Ray Karczewski repeatedly proves his words in every post
he makes

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group rec.radio.amateur.moderated

This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the
moderated Usenet newsgroup, rec.radio.amateur.moderated.

NEWSGROUPS LINE: rec.radio.amateur.moderated

rec.radio.amateur.moderated Amateur radio practices, rules, etc. (Moderated)

RATIONALE: rec.radio.amateur.moderated

rec.radio.amateur.moderated is a moderated alternative to the existing
rec.radio.amateur.misc and rec.radio.amateur.policy newsgroups. The
rec.radio.amateur.misc newsgroup is chartered to discuss amateur ("ham")
radio practices, contents, events, rules, etc., including anything
related to amateur radio not specifically covered by another
rec.radio.amateur.* newsgroup. The rec.radio.amateur.policy newsgroup
is chartered to discuss ham radio rules, regulations, and policy. Over
the past several years, the traffic on both groups has become largely
flame wars, spam, and personal ad-hominem discussions of past, present,
and future violations and violators, having little or no bearing on
amateur radio. Polite requests by serious group posters to the
offenders to refrain from such behavior have not resulted in elimination
of such behavior and has in fact resulted in another series of flame
wars. As a result, many knowledgeable and concerned posters in both
groups have ceased being active therein.

Prior to the deterioration of rec.radio.amateur.misc and
rec.radio.amateur.policy, both groups had active discussion of their
chartered topics. It is expected that offering a moderated group will
persuade those who formerly participated to resume their participation
in rational, focussed, and informed discussion. Proper moderation will
enable serious postings to the group to remain on topic while not
limiting who can voice opinions or what opinions can be voiced.

Combining the topics of the unmoderated rec.radio.amateur.misc and
rec.radio.amateur.policy newsgroups into a single moderated newsgroup is
offered as the most practical solution for both the moderators and the
participants at this time. Followup discussion in response to the 1st
RFD indicated that there was significant and strongly-held opinions in
favor of either opening up the proposed newsgroup to all amateur radio
topics, or changing the name to reflect a misc+policy scope only. In
addition to the rec.radio.amateur.misc, and rec.radio.amateur.policy
newsgroups, there has also been recent discussion about moderation in
rec.radio.amateur.antenna and rec.radio.amateur.dx. As a result,
pointers to this 2nd RFD will be posted to those additional newsgroups.
In particular, some consensus about alternatives is being actively
solicited at this time. The main alternatives a

1. Make rec.radio.amateur.moderated an all-encompassing moderated amateur
radio discussion newsgroup.

2. Keep the topics focused on misc and policy, and come up with a
better name for our proposed misc+policy moderated amateur radio
discussion newsgroup.

Alternative #2 then branches out to two possible outcomes:

2.a. Create additional moderated newsgroups for other topics, like
.antenna and .dx, now or in the future.

2.b. No one steps forward to create additional moderated newsgroups,
and the other topics continue unmoderated.

Alternative #1 does not rule out the creation of additional moderated
newsgroups in the future, though there is the valid point that
alternative #2 fixes the name-space problem immediately for future
growth, and would not have to be revisited.

Alternative #2 requires a suitable name. The name of
rec.radio.amateur.misc+policy.moderated was suggested by Kathy Morgan.

One argument in favor of alternative #1 is:

- It may not be realistic to expect that, even if strongly desired,
additional moderated newsgroups for other topics are going to emerge
anytime soon, or at all.

Our moderation team does not intend to moderate more than 1 or 2
discussion newsgroups. We also do not feel that, as a whole, we are
deep enough experts in the somewhat advanced-level topics of antennas
and dx to effectively vet appropriate articles for those topics.

In followup discussion for this 2nd RFD, we would like to try and
separate mere opinions from realistic plans/intentions to add additional
moderated discussion newsgroups for rec.radio.amateur.*. Alternatively,
it may be the case that those newsgroups' readership may not favor such
new moderated newsgroups, and either defer to ours, or retain their
topic discussions in the existing unmoderated newsgroups.

CHARTER:

rec.radio.amateur.moderated is for the discussion of amateur ("ham")
radio, also known as the Amateur Radio Service, as defined in Federal
Communications Commission Regulations and U.S. Law (47 CFR Part 97), and
in similar laws and regulations in other countries, based on
international treaty. It is not limited to the rules of any one country
or time period. Possible topics include past, present, and future
operating practices; events; contests; past, present, and
potential-future rules; power limitations; authorized frequencies;
allowed modes and band plans (or other gentlemen's agreements) that
govern how we are to operate; what constitutes the acceptable operation
of amateur stations.

The newsgroup is intended to be international in scope, not just for
amateurs in the United States. It is, however, intended as an
English-language forum, by custom and practice. As with General
Aviation and other internationally-scoped endeavors, the Amateur Radio
Service has a strong custom of the use of English and the Latin
alphabet. Discussion of amateur radio in languages other than English
also occurs in many country- and region-specific hierarchies, many of
which have specific amateur radio newsgroups, including:

de.* (Germany)
dk.* (Denmark)
es.* (Spain)
fr.* (France)
nl.* (Netherlands)
pl.* (Poland)
pt.* (Portugal)
relcom.* (Russia)

This newsgroup is only intended to supplement, not supersede, any other
amateur radio newsgroups.

General communications law or government policy of various government
agencies is also on-topic, as long as the discussion relates to amateur
radio. Examples would be emergency communications, local antenna
restrictions, and property deed restrictions applying to operation of
amateur radio stations.

Discussion of other type of radio, such as Citizens Band, Broadcast,
other Personal Radio Services, Commercial or Private Land Mobile, and
Marine or Aviation services are off-topic, except when *directly*
related to amateur radio. Similarly, discussion of methods violating
applicable communication law and regulations concerning radio equipment or
operations are off-topic.

The following are prohibited:

* Personal advertisements (submitters of such articles will be
referred to rec.radio.swap, instead).
* Commercial advertisements and money-making schemes.
* Chain letters.
* Posts in HTML.
* EMP spam.
* Binaries, apart from PGP signatures, X-Face headers, and other
ancillary article meta-data.
* Forgery of valid e-mail addresses.
* Excessive morphing/nym-shifting.
* Copyright violations. Pointers to news articles, blogs, etc. on
this topic are welcome but are required to comply with fair use
standards.
* Personal attacks and flames, as defined by the moderation team.
* Advertising items and/or services for sale.
* Links to "objectionable" web content, including pornographic sites,
sites encouraging illegal activities, or sites deemed unacceptable
by the moderation team. The moderation team will cursorily check
the contents of specific links to confirm on-topic content, but
acceptance for posting does not imply endorsement or approval of
the entire present or future contents of that web site.
* Discussion of moderation decisions. See below for information on
appealing moderator action.

LINKS:

Amateur Radio Newsgroups in Total Meltdown (QRZ)
http://www.qrz.com/ib-bin/ikonboard....T;f=7;t=119282

Amateur Radio Newsgroups: Total Meltdown (eHam)
http://www.eham.net/articles/13581

Secure, Team-Based Usenet Moderation Program (STUMP)
http://www.algebra.com/~ichudov/stump/

MODERATION POLICY: rec.radio.amateur.moderated

A moderation robot will scan all submitted posts. Each post will be
either automatically approved, rejected, or sent to the moderators for
manual review. The moderator 'bot will enforce the following guidelines:

* Crossposting is generally not allowed, with the general exception of
crossposts of bulletins, FAQ's, and other informational articles to
rec.radio.info, rec.answers, and news.answers. Infrequent
administrative crossposts may occasionally be allowed at the sole
discretion of the moderator.

* Postings must be in plain text. In particular no HTML or mixed text
and HTML posts will be allowed. Messages that are
multipart/alternative will be automatically filtered to pass just
the text/plain version to the newsgroup.

* No binary postings of any sort will be accepted. Exceptions will be
made for cryptographic signatures and such.

* Messages must not have a 'Followup-To' header that points out of
rec.radio.amateur.moderated (other than to "poster").

* Messages must not continue a thread that has been "closed" by the
moderators.

Individual posters may be temporarily banned for consistently violating
the group charter. Posters who feel that their posts have been unfairly
rejected or banned, either for specific content or by a specific
moderator, may appeal the decision. They may do so by contacting the
Appeals Board, consisting of a rotating group of 2 or more moderators,
at the Administrative Contact address below. The Board will discuss and
vote on the appeal and respond within 14 days if the appeal is
successful. The Board will also reply within 14 days to unsuccessful
submitters of any appeal that is on-topic, reasoned, civilly stated, and
is not substantially an attempt to revisit the subject matter and
arguments of a previous unsuccessful appeal.

Multiple temporary bans, attempting to circumvent the ban, or abuse of the
appeal system may result in a permanent ban.

MODERATOR INFO: rec.radio.amateur.moderated

Moderator: Paul W. Schleck, K3FU
Moderator: Bob Diepenbrock, KC4UAI
Moderator: Jack Cook, VK2CJC
Moderator: Jim Hampton, AA2QA
Moderator: Ace Ratliff, WH2T
Moderator: Jeff Angus, WA6FWI
Moderator: Hans Brakob, K0HB

In addition, the rec.radio.amateur.moderated Moderation Team will
utilize the expertise of the following consultants:

Consultant: Cecil A. Moore, W5DXP
Consultant: Phil Kane, K2ASP
Consultant: Brian Short, K7ON

The moderators are seeking additional candidates for the moderation team
in order to ensure minimal posting delays and to avoid any appearance of
bias. We would especially like to find moderators in other time zones,
countries/continents, etc.

Article Submissions:
Administrative Contact:

PROCEDU

For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:

http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.p...icies:creation

Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its final
resolution should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate in the
relevant threads in that newsgroup. This is both a courtesy to groups in
which discussion of creating a new group is off-topic as well as the best
method of making sure that one's comments or criticisms are heard.

All discussion of active proposals should be posted to news.groups.proposals.
To this end, the 'Followup-To' header of this RFD has been set to this group.

If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the discussion
may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be taken to ensure
that all discussion appears in news.groups.proposals as well.

We urge those who would like to read or post in the proposed newsgroup
to make a comment to that effect in this thread; we ask proponents to
keep a list of such positive posts with the relevant message ID
(e.g., Barney Fife, ).
Such lists of positive feedback for the proposal may constitute good
evidence that the group will be well-used if it is created.

DISTRIBUTION:

This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:

news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
rec.radio.info
rec.radio.amateur.misc
rec.radio.amateur.policy

The proponent will also post pointers to:

rec.radio.amateur.antenna
rec.radio.amateur.dx
http://www.qrz.com/

PROPONENT:

"Paul W. Schleck, K3FU"

CHANGE HISTORY:

2007-01-10 1st RFD
2007-01-25 2nd RFD