wrote in message
...
"Cool Breeze" WA3MOJ Georgeie wrote:
wrote in message
...

It's clear that you don't care about anything but yourself, and you're
still a cross-posting idiot.

--
GO# 40

So are you assclown.

Here's for you and Dan.

http://amishrakefight.org/gfy/



Yawn, your still a cross posting queer.

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message ...
Definitely a problem if you do not have a HF reciever at all. And those Rat
Shack ones suck for that too.

Amen, don't even think about one of those turkeys. One advantage I/we
had back then was a profusion of quite inexpensive but usable HF rcvrs
which are not available today. Mostly military surplus gear and some
commercial cheapies like the Hallicrafters S-38. In this respect maybe
we had it much easier than the newbies today have.

There used to be publication of VHF
rebroadcasts of the w1aw transmissions, but I have yet to hear any around
here in Michigan. Where the hell is the so-called field organization they
are so proud of on this one? Even if it is a members-only thing, still you
would think that the local (state-wise) field organizations would think that
was important enough to rebroadcast.........

Too much work. Plus once VHF comes into play CW becomes a no-interest
thing. We've had sporadic attempts around here to get 2M code practice
sessions going but they didn't last very long.


Ryan, KC8PMX

w3rv

"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message ...
Brian Kelly wrote:

When I studied for my earliest tests there were no consumer-level
recording methods let alone computers. My only options for practicing
Morse were having somebody hand-send it or copying it off the air.
Which, as a practical matter, meant copying it with a rcvr or forget
it.

Exactly, and with my old ARC 5 receiver you NEVER heard only one signal, the thing was wide open and you
had to pick out which signal you wanted to copy and learn to ignor ethe rest. Sure was good training, I
developed a very
good 'internal filter' at the outset and still retain that skill.

Yessir. Ya had to learn operating skills along with learning just the
code. Whether ya wanted to or not. There was no "pause" button on W1AW
and ya couldn't replay it either.

I saw some *really* off-the-wall Novice rcvrs. One buddy of mine
comandeered an old wooden case Philco BC/SW rcvr which didn't have a
BFO. Musta had a 15 Khz "bandwidth". So he copied the thumps the
speaker cranked out. Some time later he managed to pick up a
half-working grid-dipper and tuned the dipper just off the sides of
the incoming signals and viola, hetrodynes he could copy. As long as
he had his mitts on both tuning knobs. I came along and had a
brainfart. I fished an insulated wire down inside the last IF can and
wound the other end loosely around the GDO coil and tuned the GDO to
455 kHz. Instant BFO. He took it one step further yet and added a
gawdawful narrow passive surplus audio filter and cruised all over
40M with that lashup. The homebrewed TX was another Rube Golberg gem,
some xtal oscillator tube driving a 6146, all of it in a cigar box.

Imagine any nocode even considering jumping thru those hoops just to
get on the air.

The upside was that the Novice bands were absolutely packed with slowspeed code and finding lots of
practice was no problem. You also learned to copy the many and varied 'fists', it was all hand sent, no
one had a keyer, though some used bugs. That provided another experience which developed lifetime
skills that no one today gets. I still enjoy copying hand sent or bug sent code, unless it's *really*
butchered.

Absolutely correct. It goes farther than that though.

As much as a pain in the butt as those days were in a number of
respects that regime had a number of huge advantages over what is
available today to newbies. The Novice bands were actually a very
successful "support group", we had no options but to clump together
and work with each other toward the same objectives. We climbed all
over each other trying to get our speeds up and beat the one-year
clock on our drop-dead tickets.

Boy there was the incentive licensing move from Hell! But it worked
and the only bitching I ever heard was from a few of the OFs who
turned their noses up at the mere thought of allowing newbies to get
on the HF bands with a lousy 5wpm code test. Turned out to be a
non-sequeter for them 'cause the FCC tossed us into our isolated
playpens 'way up the 80 & 40M bands where they didn't have to put up
with us. We *had* to work each other. Clever arrangement in
retrospect.

And in many if not most cases getting a Novice station took a bunch of
self-taught knowledge and work just to get on the air. All of which
were more learning experiences. One did not use a rubber-duckie or any
otjer catalog antennas on 80 . . autotuners . . as if . . digital
*nothing* . .

No doubt a dumb-down proponent or two will scan this diatribe and get
some giggles out of the ramblings of another stuck-in-the-past grouchy
OF. But in the end who will be the **real** losers?

Yeah, there's a "cultural gap", fuggem all, I hope they get just
exactly they want.


I'm still a very strong supporter of learning Morse via the W1AW
code practice sessions.

It's probaby the best training resource around if one owns a receiver, especially after one has learned
basic Morse.

Yup. Lotta newbies have used zero-cost borrowed rcvrs. I'd loan one of
my "spares" to anybody who was genuinely interested in copying W1AW.
I "loaned" my old HQ-120 to the kid accross the street, he then loaned
it some other kid . . . I have no idea wher it finally landed.


Today they transmit computer-generated code
and back then I believe they used tape-generated code so it has always
been quite precise. I'll concede that I'm only around 150 miles from
the station so they boom here on 80M and QRM wasn't/isn't a problem.
Might be more difficult from the west coasts but I don't know.

I've heard them one one band or another everywhere in the USA
that I've listened for them including out on the west coast.

Good. Then they do have big coverage.

w3rv

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message ...


Since were on a trip down memory lane. This is how I received my FIRST HAM
SIGNAL.

I had a 6 transistor jap radio. I started 'tweeking' the coils and heard
this booming CQ CQ CQ this is W*xx.....He was down the street on the next
block.

There ya go! How many variations on that theme do ya wanna guess have
been played out?

I got my first dose by landing on 75M with one of the old
floor-mounted living room multiband wooden console radios owned by a
couple of old maid aunts. Was around the time of the broadcast of the
atom bomb tests on Bikini atoll.

Its been downhill eversince

As if!

Dan/W4NTI

w3rv

"Ryan, KC8PMX" wrote in message
...
Yep, As I was aware of that. And I never expected them to change for me
at
the last minute. BUT, I do believe that with enough warning ahead of time
it should be considered more than fair for a VE team to make an
adjustment.
It should be no problem for a VEC to be able to send via code practice
oscillator!!!!!! Wouldn't that be a shame if the VEC's have become so
lazy
they can't even send a code test via a key because they are relying on the
code CD's and tapes.

Where the hell did you think I expected to walk into a test session in the
past, and at the last possible moment expect a major change?


--
Ryan, KC8PMX
FF1-FF2-MFR-(pending NREMT-B!)
--. --- -.. ... .- -. --. . .-.. ... .- .-. . ..-. .. .-. . ..-.
.. --. .... - . .-. ...

Arrangements for a different tone have to be made in advance so that
they
have time to obtain a CD or tape of the needed pitch from the VEC. You
can't just drop into a test session and expect them to have anything
different than the commonly used tone.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




Not sure if a "code key/Oscillator" applies here, but if a person needs to
have special testing done, the rules I"ve seen written state that the
examinee is the one who must furnaish the equipment to the VEs in which to
use to accomidate that persons handicap. Perhaps the VEs didn't have one.
Not every one does.
JMS

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...

I got my first dose by landing on 75M with one of the old
floor-mounted living room multiband wooden console radios owned by a
couple of old maid aunts. Was around the time of the broadcast of the
atom bomb tests on Bikini atoll.

My dad was at Eniwetok, and at several Nevada tests as well. He is
what is now called an "atomic veteran."

He has real military experience.

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Ryan, KC8PMX wrote:
Yep, As I was aware of that. And I never expected them to change for me
at
the last minute. BUT, I do believe that with enough warning ahead of
time
it should be considered more than fair for a VE team to make an
adjustment.
It should be no problem for a VEC to be able to send via code practice
oscillator!!!!!! Wouldn't that be a shame if the VEC's have become so
lazy
they can't even send a code test via a key because they are relying on
the
code CD's and tapes.

It's certainly possible, but in this day and age, I could see
prospective amateur one complaining that the custom test was too easy or
too hard, or complaining that he or she wanted to take the test from a
CD instead of a real person, or some other such.

Almost all of us can handle the standard test methods.


The rest can be accomodated for.

Over the course of my testing, I took tests at 4 different places:
Williamsport PA, Butler PA, State College PA, and Lock Haven PA. ALL the
VE teams were extremely helpful and accomodating. Those who knew of my
hearing problem when I took Element 1 (twice, cuz I flunked the first
time) were just great. The first time I took the test, they were more
bothered by my failing it than I was, and the second time, I spoke to
one of the VE's beforehand, and he outlined the different methods I
might use, and explained the lengths they were capable of going to to
accomodate my needs.

I just want to point this out, because the tone of you letter sounds
like you think that VE's are some sort of ossified "my way or the
highway" people. They aren't.

- Mike KB3EIA -


I can say this.. I HAVE seen some VEs who were real *******s. Not wanting to
help anyone. But I've seen those too, who helped all as much as they could.
However, my former comment still stands, according to the rules I've read,
if an applicant is handicapped and requires special equipment to use in
testing, it is THEIR responsibility to provide it for the VEs to use. It is
NOT the VEs place to provide it. There is a comment though I'd like to make
about the My way or the Highway when it comes to testing. It is "supposed"
to be required of the VEs to afford the candidates the best possible
conditions in which to examine. IF someone in the waiting or even an
applicant his/herself starts making it miserable for the others OR even
before hand if the applicant fails to provide all required documentation,
the VEs have a right to evict them from the area. JMS

(Brian) wrote in message . com...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...

I got my first dose by landing on 75M with one of the old
floor-mounted living room multiband wooden console radios owned by a
couple of old maid aunts. Was around the time of the broadcast of the
atom bomb tests on Bikini atoll.

My dad was at Eniwetok, and at several Nevada tests as well. He is
what is now called an "atomic veteran."

NOW we know why you turned out like you did. Sue the sumbitches.

He has real military experience.

"Ryan, KC8PMX"
wrote in message


They are supposed to make those provisions. If they did not, they
were
in
the wrong. However, I would not favor them using hand sent code with
an
oscillator for two reasons. 1) Oscillators are often not adjustable
in
pitch. 2) Some people who copy quite well have absolutely lousy fists
and
do not send good clean code. It takes a pretty good op to copy some
of the people out there.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


And the fluctuation in CW skills is yet another reason to question its
validity as a testing element.

Kim W5TIT

But gee Kim, if someone has "made it" as a VE, shouldn't they be
proficient
in the mode(s) they are testing on?

At this point, it's not important or needed for morse
testing has LONG AGO deleted the "sending" part
of it and relied ONLY on the applicant decoding
pre-recorded tapes.

Seems to me that if someone is going to
qualify as a VE, they should be at an extreme proficiency level......

I've helped correct tests for teachers for subjects I
knew nothing about...nothing extradordinary there with
multiple choice...or checking a submitted set of
decoded morse text.

If a VE or VE team cannot effectively send a method of communication like
morse code as a required testing mode, it makes me wonder of the value of
the mode in the first place. If they are relagated to only using CD's or
tapes, I guess that would show the "dumbing down" of amateur radio,
bringing
it "one step further to extinction."

The reliance on tapes and CDs is because it is NOT all that
easy to be right on with sending code at any set speed (5, 13, 20
or whatever) by hand.

It is far easier to "machine generate" code text at specific speeds
and record them for a permanent use in testing.

Seems to me it should not be a problem for the whole VE groups to have a
set
"pre-scripted" QSO's. There could be as many as needed, 10, 20, 30 or
more
pre-made QSO's to send.

Far better to have the 20-30 or 40 prescripted QSOs recorded
and simply play back one. I initially learned morse for the
5 wpm test using 78 rpm record set from (I think) AMECO.

But, for all this speculation, the code test is soon to be just a historic
footnote, so what's all the fuss?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK

"Ryan, KC8PMX"
wrote in message


They are supposed to make those provisions. If they did not, they
were
in
the wrong. However, I would not favor them using hand sent code with
an
oscillator for two reasons. 1) Oscillators are often not adjustable
in
pitch. 2) Some people who copy quite well have absolutely lousy fists
and
do not send good clean code. It takes a pretty good op to copy some
of the people out there.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


And the fluctuation in CW skills is yet another reason to question its
validity as a testing element.

Kim W5TIT

But gee Kim, if someone has "made it" as a VE, shouldn't they be
proficient
in the mode(s) they are testing on?

At this point, it's not important or needed for morse
testing has LONG AGO deleted the "sending" part
of it and relied ONLY on the applicant decoding
pre-recorded tapes.

Seems to me that if someone is going to
qualify as a VE, they should be at an extreme proficiency level......

I've helped correct tests for teachers for subjects I
knew nothing about...nothing extradordinary there with
multiple choice...or checking a submitted set of
decoded morse text.

If a VE or VE team cannot effectively send a method of communication like
morse code as a required testing mode, it makes me wonder of the value of
the mode in the first place. If they are relagated to only using CD's or
tapes, I guess that would show the "dumbing down" of amateur radio,
bringing
it "one step further to extinction."

The reliance on tapes and CDs is because it is NOT all that
easy to be right on with sending code at any set speed (5, 13, 20
or whatever) by hand.

It is far easier to "machine generate" code text at specific speeds
and record them for a permanent use in testing.

Seems to me it should not be a problem for the whole VE groups to have a
set
"pre-scripted" QSO's. There could be as many as needed, 10, 20, 30 or
more
pre-made QSO's to send.

Far better to have the 20-30 or 40 prescripted QSOs recorded
and simply play back one. I initially learned morse for the
5 wpm test using 78 rpm record set from (I think) AMECO.

But, for all this speculation, the code test is soon to be just a historic
footnote, so what's all the fuss?

Cheers,
Bill K2UNK