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WRONG PHONETICS
Howdy,
Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis |
"JDer8745" wrote in message ... Howdy, Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis And as the knowledge of new Hams shrinks (thanks to the efforts of NCI and the like to reduce Ham radio to little more than CB radio) you will see more of it. Ham Radio, RIP. 10-73's! |
"JDer8745" wrote in message ... Howdy, Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis And as the knowledge of new Hams shrinks (thanks to the efforts of NCI and the like to reduce Ham radio to little more than CB radio) you will see more of it. Ham Radio, RIP. 10-73's! |
Ah phonetics
The ARRL and many other national entities recommend the NATO phonetics for Amateur Radio use as most Hams around the world recognize them. This alphabet dates from about 1955 and is approved by the International Civil Aviation Organization, the FAA and the International Telecommunication Union, and many National Amateur Leagues/Societies/Orgs. Note that different bodies prefer different spellings, so one also sees: Alfa Juliett Juliette Oskar Viktor] Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta Echo Foxtrot Golf Hotel India Juliet Kilo Lima Mike November Oscar Papa Quebec Romeo Sierra Tango Uniform Victor Whiskey Xray Yankee Zulu See URL: http://www.bckelk.uklinux.net/phon.full.html ----------------------------------------- However the DX crowd over many years have used their own set -- which includes kilowatt. May be "wrong phonetics", but a fact of life for a long time. Unofficial but common DX phonetics are at URL: http://ac6v.com/dxphonetics.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ Next we have funny phonetics which are memorable and easy to recall - like K6AKT - Karl Six Always Killing Time Wrong phonetics but very very common on VHF repeaters and HF Contests -------------------------------------------------- Next we have the old timers who insist on the WWII phonetics: Able Baker Charlie Dog Easy Fox George How Item Jig King Love Mike Nan Oboe Peter Queen Roger Sugar Tare Uncle Victor William X-ray Yoke Zebra And these guys are always tuning after a CQ Call !! ------------------------------------------------- Then we have the civil entity phonetics. Some hams but many don't use or understand these: Adam Boy Charlie David Edward Frank George Henry Ida John King Lincoln Mary Nora Ocean Peter Queen Robert Sam Tom Union Victor William X-ray Young Zebra And a lot of other Boy/Girl names depending on locale ----------------------------------------------------- Then we have Hams who don't know any of these and you might hear -- Name is Tim - Texaco Indigo Macy's Actually heard this one! Bottom line -- use the NATO phonetics -- so most all will understand and always during an emergency. -- 73 From The Signal In The Noise Caveat Lector Ya All ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "JDer8745" wrote in message ... Howdy, Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis |
Ah phonetics
The ARRL and many other national entities recommend the NATO phonetics for Amateur Radio use as most Hams around the world recognize them. This alphabet dates from about 1955 and is approved by the International Civil Aviation Organization, the FAA and the International Telecommunication Union, and many National Amateur Leagues/Societies/Orgs. Note that different bodies prefer different spellings, so one also sees: Alfa Juliett Juliette Oskar Viktor] Alpha Bravo Charlie Delta Echo Foxtrot Golf Hotel India Juliet Kilo Lima Mike November Oscar Papa Quebec Romeo Sierra Tango Uniform Victor Whiskey Xray Yankee Zulu See URL: http://www.bckelk.uklinux.net/phon.full.html ----------------------------------------- However the DX crowd over many years have used their own set -- which includes kilowatt. May be "wrong phonetics", but a fact of life for a long time. Unofficial but common DX phonetics are at URL: http://ac6v.com/dxphonetics.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ Next we have funny phonetics which are memorable and easy to recall - like K6AKT - Karl Six Always Killing Time Wrong phonetics but very very common on VHF repeaters and HF Contests -------------------------------------------------- Next we have the old timers who insist on the WWII phonetics: Able Baker Charlie Dog Easy Fox George How Item Jig King Love Mike Nan Oboe Peter Queen Roger Sugar Tare Uncle Victor William X-ray Yoke Zebra And these guys are always tuning after a CQ Call !! ------------------------------------------------- Then we have the civil entity phonetics. Some hams but many don't use or understand these: Adam Boy Charlie David Edward Frank George Henry Ida John King Lincoln Mary Nora Ocean Peter Queen Robert Sam Tom Union Victor William X-ray Young Zebra And a lot of other Boy/Girl names depending on locale ----------------------------------------------------- Then we have Hams who don't know any of these and you might hear -- Name is Tim - Texaco Indigo Macy's Actually heard this one! Bottom line -- use the NATO phonetics -- so most all will understand and always during an emergency. -- 73 From The Signal In The Noise Caveat Lector Ya All ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- "JDer8745" wrote in message ... Howdy, Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis |
As a matter of reference -- see URL:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet Sez NATO phonetic alphabet From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The NATO phonetic alphabet was developed in the 1950s to be intelligible (and pronounceable) to all NATO allies in the heat of battle. It replaced other phonetic alphabets, for example the US military Joint Army/Navy Phonetic Alphabet ("able baker") and several versions of RAF phonetic alphabets. It is sometimes inappropriately referred to as International Phonetic Alphabet, which is actually the official name of an alphabet used in linguistics created in the late nineteeth century. The NATO phonetic alphabet is now widely used in business and telecommunications in Europe and North America, and has been approved by ICAO for use in international civil aviation. It has been adopted by the International Telegraphers Union (ITU), after which it is named by many radio operators. Although it consists of English words, its letter codewords can easily be recognised by speakers of languages other than English. -- 73 From The Signal In The Noise Caveat Lector Ya All |
As a matter of reference -- see URL:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_phonetic_alphabet Sez NATO phonetic alphabet From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. The NATO phonetic alphabet was developed in the 1950s to be intelligible (and pronounceable) to all NATO allies in the heat of battle. It replaced other phonetic alphabets, for example the US military Joint Army/Navy Phonetic Alphabet ("able baker") and several versions of RAF phonetic alphabets. It is sometimes inappropriately referred to as International Phonetic Alphabet, which is actually the official name of an alphabet used in linguistics created in the late nineteeth century. The NATO phonetic alphabet is now widely used in business and telecommunications in Europe and North America, and has been approved by ICAO for use in international civil aviation. It has been adopted by the International Telegraphers Union (ITU), after which it is named by many radio operators. Although it consists of English words, its letter codewords can easily be recognised by speakers of languages other than English. -- 73 From The Signal In The Noise Caveat Lector Ya All |
However the DX crowd over many years have used their own set -- which includes kilowatt. May be "wrong phonetics", but a fact of life for a long time. Unofficial but common DX phonetics are at URL: http://ac6v.com/dxphonetics.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ The reason that kilowatt is particularly bad is that the listener can't be sure whether it is "kilowatt" or "kilo watt" For example: What is the callsign when the speaker says "kilowatt eight kilowatt sugar"? It could be K8KS or KW8KWS or K8KWS or KW8KS. In other words, there are 3 wrong possibilities and 1 right one. Thus the listener has only a 25% chance of getting it right. Phonetics should be chosen with the goal of clarity not confusion. Now among friends or once the QSO has been established and the call signs clearly understood, there's no harm in using different or cutesy phonetics. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
However the DX crowd over many years have used their own set -- which includes kilowatt. May be "wrong phonetics", but a fact of life for a long time. Unofficial but common DX phonetics are at URL: http://ac6v.com/dxphonetics.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------ The reason that kilowatt is particularly bad is that the listener can't be sure whether it is "kilowatt" or "kilo watt" For example: What is the callsign when the speaker says "kilowatt eight kilowatt sugar"? It could be K8KS or KW8KWS or K8KWS or KW8KS. In other words, there are 3 wrong possibilities and 1 right one. Thus the listener has only a 25% chance of getting it right. Phonetics should be chosen with the goal of clarity not confusion. Now among friends or once the QSO has been established and the call signs clearly understood, there's no harm in using different or cutesy phonetics. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Caveat Lector" ) writes:
Ah phonetics The ARRL and many other national entities recommend the NATO phonetics for Amateur Radio use as most Hams around the world recognize them. The best one was printed in a magazine at some point. It was using words that would always add to the confusion. I can't remember specific examples, but it would have been like xylophone and psychiatrist. Of course, it was intended to be funny (it was), and was not intended to be used on the air (though I wouldn't put it past someone). Michael VE2BVW |
"Caveat Lector" ) writes:
Ah phonetics The ARRL and many other national entities recommend the NATO phonetics for Amateur Radio use as most Hams around the world recognize them. The best one was printed in a magazine at some point. It was using words that would always add to the confusion. I can't remember specific examples, but it would have been like xylophone and psychiatrist. Of course, it was intended to be funny (it was), and was not intended to be used on the air (though I wouldn't put it past someone). Michael VE2BVW |
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector"
wrote: Ah phonetics Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence. The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a *standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood, in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be necessary. First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the standard words. However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as "kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO. The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work. Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams (or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely to have even heard of it. The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for "kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of "kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and "watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable. Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who doesn't immediately recognize those words. Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we have no particular external requirement to get our communications completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If "Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably, it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a proven winner. LRod Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999 http://www.woodbutcher.net |
On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector"
wrote: Ah phonetics Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence. The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a *standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood, in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be necessary. First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the standard words. However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as "kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO. The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work. Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams (or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely to have even heard of it. The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for "kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of "kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and "watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable. Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who doesn't immediately recognize those words. Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we have no particular external requirement to get our communications completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If "Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably, it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a proven winner. LRod Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999 http://www.woodbutcher.net |
"LRod" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector" wrote: Ah phonetics Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence. The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a *standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood, in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be necessary. I agree with that. There's been times when I've had to shift to some other phonetic. But I always tried the standard first. Then if that failed, went to one of the other frequently used phonetics such as "sugar" for "sierra". First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the standard words. That's the very reason for using the standard. However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as "kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO. I have heard plenty of mixups on HF when kilowatt was used. Between talking too fast and/or various foreign or dialectal accents and/or the fact that there are plenty of older hams who may be somewhat hard of hearing, kilowatt isn't a good choice as an alternate. The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work. Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams (or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely to have even heard of it. The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for "kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of "kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and "watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable. See my comment above. Many people, for a variety of reasons, don't speak clearly enough to make sure that there is a distinction. Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who doesn't immediately recognize those words. Agreed. I'll use some of these if the standard isn't getting through but I always try the standard first. Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we have no particular external requirement to get our communications completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If "Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably, it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a proven winner. And that's why it should be used first and a switch made when necessary. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"LRod" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector" wrote: Ah phonetics Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence. The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a *standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood, in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be necessary. I agree with that. There's been times when I've had to shift to some other phonetic. But I always tried the standard first. Then if that failed, went to one of the other frequently used phonetics such as "sugar" for "sierra". First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the standard words. That's the very reason for using the standard. However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as "kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO. I have heard plenty of mixups on HF when kilowatt was used. Between talking too fast and/or various foreign or dialectal accents and/or the fact that there are plenty of older hams who may be somewhat hard of hearing, kilowatt isn't a good choice as an alternate. The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work. Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams (or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely to have even heard of it. The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for "kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of "kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and "watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable. See my comment above. Many people, for a variety of reasons, don't speak clearly enough to make sure that there is a distinction. Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who doesn't immediately recognize those words. Agreed. I'll use some of these if the standard isn't getting through but I always try the standard first. Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we have no particular external requirement to get our communications completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If "Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably, it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a proven winner. And that's why it should be used first and a switch made when necessary. Dee D. Flint, N8UZE |
"Roger Wussman" wrote in message
... Bottom line -- use the NATO phonetics -- so most all will understand and always during an emergency. -- 73 From The Signal In The Noise Caveat Lector Ya All Bottom line? Foxtrot Uniform. Forever Uninformed (:-) Or Forget Uniformity (:-( HDA |
"Roger Wussman" wrote in message
... Bottom line -- use the NATO phonetics -- so most all will understand and always during an emergency. -- 73 From The Signal In The Noise Caveat Lector Ya All Bottom line? Foxtrot Uniform. Forever Uninformed (:-) Or Forget Uniformity (:-( HDA |
In article , jder8745
@aol.com says... Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". Could this be considered, "hamming it up?" groan -- -- //Steve// Steve Silverwood, KB6OJS Fountain Valley, CA Email: Web: http://home.earthlink.net/~kb6ojs_steve |
In article , jder8745
@aol.com says... Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". Could this be considered, "hamming it up?" groan -- -- //Steve// Steve Silverwood, KB6OJS Fountain Valley, CA Email: Web: http://home.earthlink.net/~kb6ojs_steve |
JDer8745 wrote:
Howdy, Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis Of course, for my callsign I could use Knife Zucchini One Oedipus or even Kilo Zero One One 73, kz1o |
JDer8745 wrote:
Howdy, Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis Of course, for my callsign I could use Knife Zucchini One Oedipus or even Kilo Zero One One 73, kz1o |
The ATC thing reminds me of a problem that my dad and I had when we flew
a Cessna 172, whose tail number was N466SR. Whenever we'd say "November 4 6 6 Sierra Romeo", there was a 50-50 chance that ground would reply to "zero romeo" (our 'sierra' sounded like 'zero'). Whenever we used "sugar romeo" as the phonetic, they always got it first time. LRod wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector" wrote: Ah phonetics Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence. The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a *standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood, in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be necessary. First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the standard words. However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as "kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO. The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work. Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams (or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely to have even heard of it. The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for "kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of "kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and "watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable. Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who doesn't immediately recognize those words. Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we have no particular external requirement to get our communications completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If "Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably, it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a proven winner. LRod Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999 http://www.woodbutcher.net -- This file is PureMail protected. To reply to the sender, you MUST include this in the subject line: YKXWBSX7I6 01/03/2004 (without that string in the subject, your message will be deleted, unread) |
The ATC thing reminds me of a problem that my dad and I had when we flew
a Cessna 172, whose tail number was N466SR. Whenever we'd say "November 4 6 6 Sierra Romeo", there was a 50-50 chance that ground would reply to "zero romeo" (our 'sierra' sounded like 'zero'). Whenever we used "sugar romeo" as the phonetic, they always got it first time. LRod wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector" wrote: Ah phonetics Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence. The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a *standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood, in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be necessary. First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the standard words. However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as "kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO. The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work. Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams (or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely to have even heard of it. The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for "kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of "kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and "watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable. Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who doesn't immediately recognize those words. Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we have no particular external requirement to get our communications completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If "Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably, it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a proven winner. LRod Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999 http://www.woodbutcher.net -- This file is PureMail protected. To reply to the sender, you MUST include this in the subject line: YKXWBSX7I6 01/03/2004 (without that string in the subject, your message will be deleted, unread) |
How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really
quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something... :-) Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis Of course, for my callsign I could use Knife Zucchini One Oedipus or even Kilo Zero One One 73, kz1o |
How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really
quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something... :-) Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis Of course, for my callsign I could use Knife Zucchini One Oedipus or even Kilo Zero One One 73, kz1o |
"LRod" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector" wrote: Ah phonetics Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence. The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a *standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood, in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be necessary. First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the standard words. However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as "kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO. The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work. Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams (or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely to have even heard of it. The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for "kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of "kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and "watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable. Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who doesn't immediately recognize those words. Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we have no particular external requirement to get our communications completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If "Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably, it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a proven winner. LRod I would've never thought this would've been an issue. My *own* method has to generally adhere to the standard phonetics during message traffic, and anything goes in informal QSOs. For example, the first time I ever signed on years ago with KC4KWH, one of the guys on the local repeater remarked, "AH! It's 'kilowatt hours"! And the name stuck. But he was not the only one to think of it. When I "graduated" to HF, many times diverse hams ;picked up on those phonetics without any prompt-ing from me---even when I sounded the suffix as "kilo whiskey hotel", the guy was likely to respond with 'kilowatt hours'. During difficult conditions, I, too, have resorted to kilowatt hours, and it *seems* to be universally understood. One or two in the electrical industry said, "Boy, I wish I could 'buy' that call". LOL! So when Vanity came along, I just dropped the 'c' and became K4KWH. Bottom line is, aw c'mon guys, relax and don't be so serious! 73 Jerry K4KWH (Kilowatt Hours) |
"LRod" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 08:15:24 -0700, "Caveat Lector" wrote: Ah phonetics Sorry to tag on this post out of sequence. The bottom line is communications. While it is true that by using a *standard* alphabet one maximizes the probability of being understood, in truth and in real practice, there are times when deviation may be necessary. First my qualifications: I was an air traffic controller for 30 years and a pilot for some years before that, thus I have been intimately familiar with the ICAO alphabet for nearly 40 years; using it on a daily basis for most of that time. When everyone is on the same page by official fiat, it is unusual to find the need for other than the standard words. However, in all the years I was DXing (on the way to Honor Roll), I found that my particular callsign (N9AKE at the time) had a couple of shortcomings in real world, difficult conditions. The "K" spoken as "kilo" was often and easily lost in QSB or QRN. However, whenever I used "kilowatt" there was a almost always complete understanding by the other party, and I was able to successfully conclude my QSO. The key here, however, is that "kilowatt" is almost universally understood by hams, being a part of the argot of the pasttime. I doubt I would have had more than a 50% success rate had I tried it at work. Similarly, it is unlikely that substitutions others might try would have as good a success rate unless they, too, were related to amateur radio. If one were to try to use xenophobic, for example, most hams (or other people) would choke on the word itself, since few are likely to have even heard of it. The argument made by someone that "kilowatt" could be confused for "kilo" "watt" is specious, since in real communications, the use of "kilowatt" is clearly a single word. If one were to use "kilo" and "watt" as phonetics for discrete letters, they would be spoken clearly and separately, whereas "kilowatt" is spoken almost as one syllable. Context and common sense are somewhat of a determinant in successful communications using phonetics. That is one reason why many DXers are very successful using America, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Guatemala, etc., as phonetics. Hardly a DXer exists who doesn't immediately recognize those words. Finally we are not a commercial service, and public service aside, we have no particular external requirement to get our communications completed. There is no "officially sanctioned" alphabet that we are required to use. Although, my skin crawls when I hear Bob say, "Broken Old Bottle," the fact remains he is perfectly legal in doing so. In amateur radio, success in communications is the only motive. If "Boston London" (remember him?) gets it done regularly and reliably, it's a good combination. If you don't want to have think one up, stick with the ICAO (NATO) alphabet. For the vast majority of cases it's a proven winner. LRod I would've never thought this would've been an issue. My *own* method has to generally adhere to the standard phonetics during message traffic, and anything goes in informal QSOs. For example, the first time I ever signed on years ago with KC4KWH, one of the guys on the local repeater remarked, "AH! It's 'kilowatt hours"! And the name stuck. But he was not the only one to think of it. When I "graduated" to HF, many times diverse hams ;picked up on those phonetics without any prompt-ing from me---even when I sounded the suffix as "kilo whiskey hotel", the guy was likely to respond with 'kilowatt hours'. During difficult conditions, I, too, have resorted to kilowatt hours, and it *seems* to be universally understood. One or two in the electrical industry said, "Boy, I wish I could 'buy' that call". LOL! So when Vanity came along, I just dropped the 'c' and became K4KWH. Bottom line is, aw c'mon guys, relax and don't be so serious! 73 Jerry K4KWH (Kilowatt Hours) |
"Steve Silverwood" wrote in message ... In article , jder8745 @aol.com says... Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". Could this be considered, "hamming it up?" groan Steve - this sort of nit-pick has no place in ham radio. There are many phonetic word lists, and they all have different words: International, Police, ITU, ARRL, Navy, Western Union, ICAO(CAA) - and not a one of them is illegal to use, and even the cute self-created ones work just fine. Yes, if I were doing police dispatching, I would use the police phonetics. But this is amateur radio, and it's supposed to be fun. In Ohio days I stopped using WILD ZEBRAS 8 ALFALFA because the "8" got confused with the "A"(as in "ate"). But as long as you could tell the call was WZ8A, it was legal. You would probably correct me if I said my "handle is Andy." Understand that the use of "handle," as a cute substitute for "name," was going on long before CB ever existed. I was saying "my handle is Andy" on the 11-meter ham band back in 1959. Hams probably picked it up from the military. The strict protocol may be good training for traffic nets and such, but please loosen up a little. That stuffed-shirt stuff could take the fun out of the hobby for a beginner, and there is no reason for it. Think I'll turn on the rig and send a "dit-dah-dah-dit-dit" waiting for a "dit-dit" back (instead of a CQ call). It's legal, as long as I send my call within ten minutes. 73, King 4 Young King Zebra |
"Steve Silverwood" wrote in message ... In article , jder8745 @aol.com says... Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". Could this be considered, "hamming it up?" groan Steve - this sort of nit-pick has no place in ham radio. There are many phonetic word lists, and they all have different words: International, Police, ITU, ARRL, Navy, Western Union, ICAO(CAA) - and not a one of them is illegal to use, and even the cute self-created ones work just fine. Yes, if I were doing police dispatching, I would use the police phonetics. But this is amateur radio, and it's supposed to be fun. In Ohio days I stopped using WILD ZEBRAS 8 ALFALFA because the "8" got confused with the "A"(as in "ate"). But as long as you could tell the call was WZ8A, it was legal. You would probably correct me if I said my "handle is Andy." Understand that the use of "handle," as a cute substitute for "name," was going on long before CB ever existed. I was saying "my handle is Andy" on the 11-meter ham band back in 1959. Hams probably picked it up from the military. The strict protocol may be good training for traffic nets and such, but please loosen up a little. That stuffed-shirt stuff could take the fun out of the hobby for a beginner, and there is no reason for it. Think I'll turn on the rig and send a "dit-dah-dah-dit-dit" waiting for a "dit-dit" back (instead of a CQ call). It's legal, as long as I send my call within ten minutes. 73, King 4 Young King Zebra |
I tried that one, but some Zulu tribes have an issue with it (and I
couldn't bust the Zulu pileup). So I went with Zsa-Zsa (as in Gabor). Dave kz1o Tom wrote: How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something... :-) Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis Of course, for my callsign I could use Knife Zucchini One Oedipus or even Kilo Zero One One 73, kz1o -- This file is PureMail protected. To reply to the sender, you MUST include this in the subject line: YKXWBSX7I6 01/03/2004 (without that string in the subject, your message will be deleted, unread) |
I tried that one, but some Zulu tribes have an issue with it (and I
couldn't bust the Zulu pileup). So I went with Zsa-Zsa (as in Gabor). Dave kz1o Tom wrote: How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something... :-) Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis Of course, for my callsign I could use Knife Zucchini One Oedipus or even Kilo Zero One One 73, kz1o -- This file is PureMail protected. To reply to the sender, you MUST include this in the subject line: YKXWBSX7I6 01/03/2004 (without that string in the subject, your message will be deleted, unread) |
Tom,
I tried to email you, but couldn't get past your spam filter. Please reply to my adelphia address. I added the code on the subject line that will get you through my spam filter. Can you (addressing the group, now) believe how much crap we have to put up with because of spammers? It's like someone sticking a finger in your eye, and then say "I'd like to sell you something." All the best, and 73, Dave Dave Bushong wrote: I tried that one, but some Zulu tribes have an issue with it (and I couldn't bust the Zulu pileup). So I went with Zsa-Zsa (as in Gabor). Dave kz1o Tom wrote: How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something... :-) Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis Of course, for my callsign I could use Knife Zucchini One Oedipus or even Kilo Zero One One 73, kz1o |
Tom,
I tried to email you, but couldn't get past your spam filter. Please reply to my adelphia address. I added the code on the subject line that will get you through my spam filter. Can you (addressing the group, now) believe how much crap we have to put up with because of spammers? It's like someone sticking a finger in your eye, and then say "I'd like to sell you something." All the best, and 73, Dave Dave Bushong wrote: I tried that one, but some Zulu tribes have an issue with it (and I couldn't bust the Zulu pileup). So I went with Zsa-Zsa (as in Gabor). Dave kz1o Tom wrote: How about Knot Zinciferous Onomatopoeia One? That seems really quite clear in a phonetic sense. Or am I missing something... :-) Recently I hear more and more hams using "kilowatt" as the phonetic for the letter K. The correct phonetic is "kilo". 73 de Jack, K9CUN. That's... kickapoo niner certain underwear neurosis Of course, for my callsign I could use Knife Zucchini One Oedipus or even Kilo Zero One One 73, kz1o |
"Steve Silverwood" wrote in message ... Forgive my rambling. Thanks for listening. Hope to have the privilege of a live QSO with you sometime! Thanks for all your comments, Steve. In recent years I've taught and helped out with several Tech-plus classes. Enjoy seeing the enthusiasm of the young people. Unfortunately, computers and the internet have grabbed away a lot of potential hams, and many of the new-license candidates are retirees who were interested in ham radio back when they were young, but never got the license. When the dx isn't around or I feel a bit lazy at night, I crank the code speed way down and go cq'ing where the remaining Novices and a lot of tech plus folks hang out. I usually send out an unsolicited QSL after a contact to the hams who sounds like they are just getting started. On voice, I don't "correct" those using CB jargon, but do try to set a good example. However, there was the old "Turkey Net" in Florida where non-conformist protocol was standard; a lot of joking around, but we didn't interfere with anyone and violated no rules. 73, Andy |
"Steve Silverwood" wrote in message ... Forgive my rambling. Thanks for listening. Hope to have the privilege of a live QSO with you sometime! Thanks for all your comments, Steve. In recent years I've taught and helped out with several Tech-plus classes. Enjoy seeing the enthusiasm of the young people. Unfortunately, computers and the internet have grabbed away a lot of potential hams, and many of the new-license candidates are retirees who were interested in ham radio back when they were young, but never got the license. When the dx isn't around or I feel a bit lazy at night, I crank the code speed way down and go cq'ing where the remaining Novices and a lot of tech plus folks hang out. I usually send out an unsolicited QSL after a contact to the hams who sounds like they are just getting started. On voice, I don't "correct" those using CB jargon, but do try to set a good example. However, there was the old "Turkey Net" in Florida where non-conformist protocol was standard; a lot of joking around, but we didn't interfere with anyone and violated no rules. 73, Andy |
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