http://www.cdc.gov/elcosh/docs/d0500...8/d000568.html

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:23:57 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:

http://www.cdc.gov/elcosh/docs/d0500...8/d000568.html

Big wall rock climbers and vertical cavers need to deal with the same,
and some of their gear and techniques may be helpful.

For example, when suspended on a rope, in harness, you could use a
loop of cord with a Prusik hitch, attach it to the main rope, and give
yourself a loop to stand on and get some more leg circulation.

There are other techniques used by belayers, as they may be in place
for extended times, and not able to let go of the rope their partner
is on.

As always, this is dangerous stuff, and should only be done with
proper instruction and equipment. Gravity is not always your friend.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
------------------------------------------------
at the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:23:57 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:


http://www.cdc.gov/elcosh/docs/d0500...8/d000568.html


Experience tells me there is something missing from their
explanations. For those who do much climbing the hazards, or at least
some of them associated with staying in the same position are known.

At my age I still do a fair amount of tower climbing. A typical tower
climb is 3 to 4 hours with no few running up to 6 or 7. The longest
have been on the order of 8 to 9 hours. The longest in the last two
years was between 6 and 7 hours.

I always use a "tag line". which they refer to as an arresting
harness. Actually it's a double line with two clips and they are only
a bit over 3 feet long. So, if I slip I won't fall far, but it's gonna
hurt! It does not get in the way of work. It can be clipped to the
side, or in front but attaches to the D rings on the belt. A simple
"tag line" makes climbing safer and easier. Even a simple one
properly attached does not have to get in the way.

I do not believe in the harnesses I see advertized and I do not
believe in using Nylon harness or safety belts. Although we used them
where I used to work, we considered them disposable with a very short
life.
"As I recall" we replaced them every 8 months. Remember, Nylon does
not stand up well in direct sunlight.

I avoid the harnesses as I particularly do not want my legs hanging
or something that will encourage a situation where I can work with
them hanging. Sure they are comfortable, but I stand! If the work is
too strenuous to stand it should be done in some other manner. If the
climber can not keep his or her weight on their feet for the duration
of the climb they should not be climbing in those situations.

I wear a Kline, free floating leather belt which is 5 inches wide. The
belt itself is of double neoprene impregnated nylon monofilament. I
have it inspected regularly. The pole strap is of the same material
and easily extends to go around a tower 2 foot on a side, yet works
just fine on a small TV tower. I knew I'd be using the belt a lot so
I purchased the same type as used by the line and tower crews. I do
see that they are migrating tot he harnesses probably due as much to
OSHA as any other reason. Who knows, ,maybe after this study they
will be moving away from them, but they are active and rarely remain
in one position for long, so I don't see this as a hazard they would
be exposed to very often.

On one job a few years ago, they came up short on some parts. So I
slid into the tower, got comfortable and waited about an hour and a
half. The temperature was well over 90F. I was in a vertical
position, it was hot, and I did very little moving. I wore a wide
brimmed hat, long sleeve shirt, and work pants. (and leather gloves)
There was no problem nor was there any indication of one. OTOH I sure
was getting bored. However it was a position that required I move my
legs at regular intervals to stay comfortable.

"I think", although I disagree with their wording, they are referring
to a "motionless" upright position. I also believe that although the
bent knees at "parade rest" *might* help, it's the movement of the leg
muscles that forces the blood out, not just using the muscles to
support the weight. Those legs have to *move* to keep the blood from
pooling.

One thing I did not see them mention, or I missed it, is the greater
likely hood of developing blood clots in the legs when they are
motionless or just hanging for long periods. Hanging is far worse than
standing on rigid, straight legs.

I would reiterate that any one who feels they need to use a harness
of the type in which you can sit to make life easier on a tower should
not be climbing at least for nothing more than a very short job, but
not the ones that take over half an hour. OTOH there is nothing wrong
with wearing one for convenience if handled properly. Tower climbing
requires the climber to be in good physical shape, not just for the
climbing, but for safety and health reasons.

If the climber is over weight, out of shape, not feeling good, or
feels they need additional support to be able to do the job, they
should stay on the ground. It is not something that should be taken
lightly.

One of the greatest hazards has been the unknowing staying "up there"
too long and then being too tired to climb down. On rare occasion some
one will climb up a ways and suddenly discover that "This is not for
me!" Going up a tower and then helping someone climb down one hand
or foot at a time is a rather unique and tiring experience. (and it
takes a very long time) At least he didn't go up to 200 feet before
looking down. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger, (hello, haven't talked with you in a while) I did a bit of
not-so-tall tower climbing as part of my job while I was in the USAF
communications biz and I quickly discovered "This is not for me!" Heck, I
even got scared once or twice on the so-called parachute ride at Knott's
Berry Farm hehheh.

Jerry
--
Jerry Bransford
To email, remove 'me' from my email address
KC6TAY, PP-ASEL
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:23:57 GMT, "KØHB"
wrote:


http://www.cdc.gov/elcosh/docs/d0500...8/d000568.html


Experience tells me there is something missing from their
explanations. For those who do much climbing the hazards, or at least
some of them associated with staying in the same position are known.

At my age I still do a fair amount of tower climbing. A typical tower
climb is 3 to 4 hours with no few running up to 6 or 7. The longest
have been on the order of 8 to 9 hours. The longest in the last two
years was between 6 and 7 hours.

I always use a "tag line". which they refer to as an arresting
harness. Actually it's a double line with two clips and they are only
a bit over 3 feet long. So, if I slip I won't fall far, but it's gonna
hurt! It does not get in the way of work. It can be clipped to the
side, or in front but attaches to the D rings on the belt. A simple
"tag line" makes climbing safer and easier. Even a simple one
properly attached does not have to get in the way.

I do not believe in the harnesses I see advertized and I do not
believe in using Nylon harness or safety belts. Although we used them
where I used to work, we considered them disposable with a very short
life.
"As I recall" we replaced them every 8 months. Remember, Nylon does
not stand up well in direct sunlight.

I avoid the harnesses as I particularly do not want my legs hanging
or something that will encourage a situation where I can work with
them hanging. Sure they are comfortable, but I stand! If the work is
too strenuous to stand it should be done in some other manner. If the
climber can not keep his or her weight on their feet for the duration
of the climb they should not be climbing in those situations.

I wear a Kline, free floating leather belt which is 5 inches wide. The
belt itself is of double neoprene impregnated nylon monofilament. I
have it inspected regularly. The pole strap is of the same material
and easily extends to go around a tower 2 foot on a side, yet works
just fine on a small TV tower. I knew I'd be using the belt a lot so
I purchased the same type as used by the line and tower crews. I do
see that they are migrating tot he harnesses probably due as much to
OSHA as any other reason. Who knows, ,maybe after this study they
will be moving away from them, but they are active and rarely remain
in one position for long, so I don't see this as a hazard they would
be exposed to very often.

On one job a few years ago, they came up short on some parts. So I
slid into the tower, got comfortable and waited about an hour and a
half. The temperature was well over 90F. I was in a vertical
position, it was hot, and I did very little moving. I wore a wide
brimmed hat, long sleeve shirt, and work pants. (and leather gloves)
There was no problem nor was there any indication of one. OTOH I sure
was getting bored. However it was a position that required I move my
legs at regular intervals to stay comfortable.

"I think", although I disagree with their wording, they are referring
to a "motionless" upright position. I also believe that although the
bent knees at "parade rest" *might* help, it's the movement of the leg
muscles that forces the blood out, not just using the muscles to
support the weight. Those legs have to *move* to keep the blood from
pooling.

One thing I did not see them mention, or I missed it, is the greater
likely hood of developing blood clots in the legs when they are
motionless or just hanging for long periods. Hanging is far worse than
standing on rigid, straight legs.

I would reiterate that any one who feels they need to use a harness
of the type in which you can sit to make life easier on a tower should
not be climbing at least for nothing more than a very short job, but
not the ones that take over half an hour. OTOH there is nothing wrong
with wearing one for convenience if handled properly. Tower climbing
requires the climber to be in good physical shape, not just for the
climbing, but for safety and health reasons.

If the climber is over weight, out of shape, not feeling good, or
feels they need additional support to be able to do the job, they
should stay on the ground. It is not something that should be taken
lightly.

One of the greatest hazards has been the unknowing staying "up there"
too long and then being too tired to climb down. On rare occasion some
one will climb up a ways and suddenly discover that "This is not for
me!" Going up a tower and then helping someone climb down one hand
or foot at a time is a rather unique and tiring experience. (and it
takes a very long time) At least he didn't go up to 200 feet before
looking down. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger Halstead wrote:
I always use a "tag line". which they refer to as an arresting
harness. Actually it's a double line with two clips and they are only
a bit over 3 feet long. So, if I slip I won't fall far, but it's gonna
hurt!

I have my Purple Martin birdhouse mounted on my tower at a height
of about 20 ft. Last year, I wished I had not been wearing my safety
harness when I was surprised by a six foot long rat snake during a
nest check. The harness forced me to face the snake when I would have
much rather jumped. :-)
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:43:00 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Roger Halstead wrote:
I always use a "tag line". which they refer to as an arresting
harness. Actually it's a double line with two clips and they are only
a bit over 3 feet long. So, if I slip I won't fall far, but it's gonna
hurt!

I have my Purple Martin birdhouse mounted on my tower at a height
of about 20 ft. Last year, I wished I had not been wearing my safety
harness when I was surprised by a six foot long rat snake during a
nest check. The harness forced me to face the snake when I would have
much rather jumped. :-)

Everything is a compromise:-)) Although I'd say finding the snake
would require a lot higher odds than seat belts Vs being thrown out of
a car. :-))

Bout all we have in Michigan are Rattle snakes (Missaguga - usually a
little feller) and assorted non poisonous ones. Naturally you know
which kind got me in the upper arm when trimming the hedge around the
house.sigh I was black and blue from darn near elbow to shoulder
although at least it didn't make me sick. Then again it was only
about 14 inches long.

Like you I was looking at a bird's nest, which in this case was in the
hedge. I reached in to look at the birds (4 little ones in the nest)
when I felt a burning on my upper arm. I thought I'd picked up a
splinter and the pine sap was burning until I saw the two little holes
in my arm.

The drawback to tag lines and safety belts at 100 feet is the likely
hood of coming across a Yellow jackets nest inside the mast or boom.
They are nasty tempered little suckers.

I was just looking to see if I had any photos of the nests I've run
across in the back yard up on my web site, but didn't find any. I
have a couple to put up that show one nest about a foot across.

The last two years I have destroyed about 30 to 40 nests a year on our
lot which is only 200 feet on a side.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:43:00 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Roger Halstead wrote:
I always use a "tag line". which they refer to as an arresting harness.
snip

I have my Purple Martin birdhouse mounted on my tower at a height
of about 20 ft. Last year, I wished I had not been wearing my safety
harness when I was surprised by a six foot long rat snake during a
nest check. The harness forced me to face the snake when I would have
much rather jumped. :-)

Everything is a compromise:-)) Although I'd say finding the snake
would require a lot higher odds than seat belts Vs being thrown out of
a car. :-))

Bout all we have in Michigan are Rattle snakes
snip
The drawback to tag lines and safety belts at 100 feet is the likely
hood of coming across a Yellow jackets nest inside the mast or boom.
They are nasty tempered little suckers.
snip

At least I have never encountered snakes or wasps on those rare occasions I
needed to go aloft to fix or retrieve a lose halyard. It's only 35 feet
above deck but at sea in a light chop it swings about two to three feet with
no one up there, add my weight it swings about five to seven feet. So I tie
myself a safety harness from 3 strands of 5/8 inch Yacht Braid and secure a
double line for hauling to a rigging ring. It's safer than a belt, and
while you can't fall out you can get a bad case of motion sickness. I use
flying jam cleats to serve as climbers so up and down are slow. There are
no mast steps nor anything to grab except at the spreaders. So I try to
avoid going up if at all possible. I sail mostly in the winter, and the
water is cold!
My antennas are all hinged, so I never climb them!
I think you need to make some accommodation when you pass 65.

Roger Gt

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 10:35:27 GMT, "Roger Gt"
wrote:


"Roger Halstead" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:43:00 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

Roger Halstead wrote:
I always use a "tag line". which they refer to as an arresting harness.
snip

I have my Purple Martin birdhouse mounted on my tower at a height
of about 20 ft. Last year, I wished I had not been wearing my safety
harness when I was surprised by a six foot long rat snake during a
nest check. The harness forced me to face the snake when I would have
much rather jumped. :-)

Everything is a compromise:-)) Although I'd say finding the snake
would require a lot higher odds than seat belts Vs being thrown out of
a car. :-))

Bout all we have in Michigan are Rattle snakes
snip
The drawback to tag lines and safety belts at 100 feet is the likely
hood of coming across a Yellow jackets nest inside the mast or boom.
They are nasty tempered little suckers.
snip

At least I have never encountered snakes or wasps on those rare occasions I
needed to go aloft to fix or retrieve a lose halyard. It's only 35 feet
above deck but at sea in a light chop it swings about two to three feet with
no one up there, add my weight it swings about five to seven feet. So I tie

I've climbed towers for years and I'm also a pilot, but I want my
tower to hold still! :-)) If you do much of it, I guess a person,
or some people could get used to it. I do know of guys going up
there, but most preferred to lay the mast down. :-))

myself a safety harness from 3 strands of 5/8 inch Yacht Braid and secure a
double line for hauling to a rigging ring. It's safer than a belt, and
while you can't fall out you can get a bad case of motion sickness. I use
flying jam cleats to serve as climbers so up and down are slow. There are
no mast steps nor anything to grab except at the spreaders. So I try to
avoid going up if at all possible. I sail mostly in the winter, and the
water is cold!
My antennas are all hinged, so I never climb them!
I think you need to make some accommodation when you pass 65.

My first wife's father was still roofing barns well past the age of
80. Those steep, hip roofed barns! Not me, I wouldn't climb up one
of those for anything.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger Gt

More info....

http://www.caves.org/grotto/nag/html/harness.html

KØHB wrote:
More info....

http://www.caves.org/grotto/nag/html/harness.html

Thanks, I'll be sure to never build or erect any of my antennas inside a
cave... :)


73 de W6DKN