"Tom Winston" wrote in
:

On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote:

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ...

That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Advanced class licensees
passed the Extra class written exam, and passed a 13 wpm code test.
Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam
-- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam.

Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met
higher standards than the current crop of Extras.

So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make
that decision.

Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license.


Truly weird. As a 20wpm Extra I don't see you as having a higher licence
than me, oddly enough.

"Tom Winston" wrote in message ...
On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote:

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ...

That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade.

Incorrect!

Advanced class licensees
passed the Extra class written exam,

No, they did not. There have always been different written exams
for the two license classes. Until the 2000 restructuring, an Extra
required passing both the 50 question Advanced written *and* the 40
question Extra.

and passed a 13 wpm code test.

Only until 1990. After that time, code waivers were available.

Extra required 20 wpm in the same time frame.

Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam

again, incorrect!

-- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam.

No argument there.

Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met
higher standards than the current crop of Extras.

So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make
that decision.

Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license.

73 de Jim, N2EY

I was an Advanced in 1963. I guess, by proxy, I will be able to say I
was an Extra for 40 years. I became an Extra in 1979. What will I
become now.

Do you think that if everyone would just buy five copies of QST every
month the League would give up attempting to license every deadbeat
dad and upgrading every licensee that can recite QST?

Win/W0LZ


On 19 Jan 2004 19:11:59 GMT, "Tom Winston"
wrote:

On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote:

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ...

That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Advanced class licensees
passed the Extra class written exam, and passed a 13 wpm code test.
Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam
-- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam.

Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met
higher standards than the current crop of Extras.

So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make
that decision.

Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license.

"Tom Winston" wrote in message ...
On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote:

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ...

That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Advanced class licensees
passed the Extra class written exam, and passed a 13 wpm code test.
Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam
-- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam.

Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met
higher standards than the current crop of Extras.

So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make
that decision.

Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license.

There's that stupid pecking order thing again.

Hey, a little studying and a code waiver and anyone could have been an Advanced.

(N2EY) wrote

Until the 2000 restructuring, an Extra
required passing both the 50 question
Advanced written *and* the 40 question Extra.

You must be new around here.

Many Extra's (me, for an example) never took the Advanced written
exam, and my Extra exam had 75 questions, not 40.

73, de Hans, K0HB

"Tom Winston" wrote in message ...
On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote:

Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ...

That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Advanced class licensees
passed the Extra class written exam, and passed a 13 wpm code test.
Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam
-- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam.

Uhhhh...in what universe?

The only "Advanced" class licensees that I know of that took an
Extra written test but didn't upgrade were one's who failed the 20WPM.

And I'd like to know how getting more operating privileges is a
"downgrade"...?!?!

Would you take an airline ticket "upgrade" by moving FROM First
Class to Coach? Uh uh...It's the other way around. Same here.

Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met
higher standards than the current crop of Extras.

Perhaps. Certainly the Advanced Class folks passed a more
stringent code test. My Advanced written was hard, but so was the
Extra. I am proud of both.

So thanks, but no thanks. When I want to downgrade, *I* will make
that decision.

Just go away, ARRL, and keep your grimy paws off my license.

Yeah...how dare they offer to get you more operating privileges
without having to take any further tests...rotten scoundrels anyway...

Steve, K4YZ

"Winston" wrote in message
news
I was an Advanced in 1963. I guess, by proxy, I will be able to say I
was an Extra for 40 years. I became an Extra in 1979. What will I
become now.

Think of it as having walked in a very large circle for the past 40 Years.

: ) : ) : )

Do you think that if everyone would just buy five copies of QST every
month the League would give up attempting to license every deadbeat
dad and upgrading every licensee that can recite QST?

Win/W0LZ

Probably an accurate observation Win. All that the ARRL has ever been
interested in for the past 40+ years is more subscriptions to their ad
filled fishwrap. No suprise really as the ARRL's 501-C3 Charter lists
them as a non-profit "scientific" publishing company.

Looks like the Ivy League also has **finally** realized that the Incentive
License disaster of the 1960's pretty much trashed ham radio.

Now their franticly trying to back-peddle the boat before it finally goes
over Niagra Falls. Not much you can do, seeing that 99.5% of young
persons are more interested in Ipod, Blogging, Chatrooms and other
Net related projects instead of this old antiquated hobby of their
granddaddy called "ham radio". (It used to be that ham radio was
unique in that it was the only alternative to making a long distance
telephone call to speak with someone far away. Today anyone can
do the same with a $10-per-month ISP and a PC. The NOVELTY
of long distance communications for the common person has worn
off - this is the root-cause of the issue - ham radio is become obsolete. )

Steve Robeson, K4CAP wrote:

"Tom Winston" wrote in message ...


On 19 Jan 2004 10:08:20 -0800, N2EY wrote:


Existing Advanceds get free upgrade to Extra, ...


That's not an upgrade; that's a downgrade. Advanced class licensees
passed the Extra class written exam, and passed a 13 wpm code test.
Furthermore, most Advanced class licensees took the older Extra exam
-- an exam that's a lot tougher than the current Extra exam.



Uhhhh...in what universe?

The only "Advanced" class licensees that I know of that took an
Extra written test but didn't upgrade were one's who failed the 20WPM.

There was that window of time from Jan 2000 to April 14, 2000 where one
could take the
extra written, pass it, get the CSCE, and cash it in on April 15, 2000.
And then have
your extra. And not fail the 20wpm test because he didn't take it. I
did this and also
took the advanced written (was an old tech plus), and cashed in the
CSCEs April 15th.


And I'd like to know how getting more operating privileges is a
"downgrade"...?!?!

Would you take an airline ticket "upgrade" by moving FROM First
Class to Coach? Uh uh...It's the other way around. Same here.



Possession of the Advanced class license proves that the holder met
higher standards than the current crop of Extras.

But those advanceds didn't do the extra writtens (4B). So, if the extra
written is "worth"
more than 13wpm, then todays' extras have higher standards than the
advanceds'.
Depends on how you call it, if element 4B 13wpm or not.




Perhaps. Certainly the Advanced Class folks passed a more
stringent code test. My Advanced written was hard, but so was the
Extra. I am proud of both.

It's a good thing to have, but it's not at the top of my resume. My 13
patents
and BSEE are above it. Now that we're in bragging mode.... :-)

"google blogger" wrote in message
roups.com...

Looks like the Ivy League also has **finally** realized that the Incentive
License disaster of the 1960's pretty much trashed ham radio.


Learn your history. ARRL fought that proposal. That was solely the idea of
the FCC.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"google blogger" wrote in
roups.com:


"Winston" wrote in message
news
I was an Advanced in 1963. I guess, by proxy, I will be able to say I
was an Extra for 40 years. I became an Extra in 1979. What will I
become now.

Think of it as having walked in a very large circle for the past 40
Years.

: ) : ) : )

Do you think that if everyone would just buy five copies of QST every
month the League would give up attempting to license every deadbeat
dad and upgrading every licensee that can recite QST?

Win/W0LZ

Probably an accurate observation Win. All that the ARRL has ever been
interested in for the past 40+ years is more subscriptions to their ad
filled fishwrap. No suprise really as the ARRL's 501-C3 Charter lists
them as a non-profit "scientific" publishing company.

Looks like the Ivy League also has **finally** realized that the
Incentive License disaster of the 1960's pretty much trashed ham radio.

Now their franticly trying to back-peddle the boat before it finally
goes over Niagra Falls. Not much you can do, seeing that 99.5% of young
persons are more interested in Ipod, Blogging, Chatrooms and other
Net related projects instead of this old antiquated hobby of their
granddaddy called "ham radio". (It used to be that ham radio was
unique in that it was the only alternative to making a long distance
telephone call to speak with someone far away. Today anyone can
do the same with a $10-per-month ISP and a PC. The NOVELTY
of long distance communications for the common person has worn
off - this is the root-cause of the issue - ham radio is become
obsolete. )



I didn't realise that people wrapped fish in publications over here. Fish
wrapped in newspaper used to be really common back home in G land, and I
dare say you might still find it if you looked hard enough.

73 de Alun, N3KIP (Ex-G8VUK)