Stuart Grey wrote:
JohnJacobJingleHimerSchmidt wrote in
:



Stuart Grey wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:



Stuart Grey wrote:




Oh yeah! I gotta have a question. Okay, here’s one; I’m
interested in this PSK31 * thing. Does anyone do PPP via
this modulation technique, like to pass primitive usenet
like messages, old ftp, or text based web pages?


No, it is a text based mode. Phase shifting can
certainly be used to
send data, but PSK31 is the shifting and an encoding
scheme that sends text only. Correctable too!

Of course, you can send ascii art!

- Mike KB3EIA -


The primitive usenet was all text - mail, usenet, and text
based web using Lynx, connected via PPP.

BUT, if I can send text, I can uuencode binary files, and
send them as text. This whole web thing is entirely text
based, yet by uuencode and other schemes binary files can
be passed, and applications can be created that make
viewing or using those binary files seem transparent.

BUT, THEN AGAIN, PSK31 uses vericode, which appears, at
first glance to be optimized for English language text
messages, with the vowels being of the shortest number of
bits and less frequently used letters being many more
bits. Optimal for English, much less so for binary. I’ve
not looked at it to see what its efficiency would be
compared to other schemes, so I really shouldn’t say.

BUT, STILL AGAIN, I wouldn’t dream of sending anything but
text via PSK31. I just think it might be cool to use
something like PPP to relay messages about, sort of like
repeaters, but not real time. After all, the original
internet was just a few computers that connected with
phone lines at low bit rates; not at all unlike radio
contacts made with PSK31.

Feel free to hit me over the head for quibbling.

PSK31 or any PSK does not have error correction, so the
messages might not arrive in "one piece" and one could
spend many hours trying to send one "good version". PSK
was designed to take over where RTTY left off as far as a
keyboard mode for QSO's. Speed is about the same 60 WPM
for BSK31, but less bandwidth and a little better under
poor band conditions. MFSK has some error correction but
again the speed is about 60 WPM, would take a long time to
send complete pictures. MixW has a feature for sending
pictures via MFSK, works well but not anything like the
Internet or even SSTV, picture quality is very poor. Right
now the MFSK picture mode is not lawful in the USA, but
there is a petition before the FCC to allow bandwidth up to
500 Hz for some of the new digital modes like MFSK picture
mode which is a FAX mode in reality There is PACTOR with
error correction, but again the baud rate is 300 bps on HF.
Would be like using a early modem connected to the
telephone line. If you were around for the first BBS
systems they were very slow. Took me four evenings at one
hour per session to download the satellite tracking program
STSPLUS, and that was not a very large file compared todays
software. I believe the connection speed to the BBS was
1200 bps then.

Even message sending via Packet and PACTOR is getting to be
less and less with satellite phones and cell phones and
email via the Internet. But your idea is interesting about
PPP messages, but would be much to slow for todays high
tech communications. Would you be willing to sit at your
station for many hours to download a few messages? And
then many hours to relay them?

My two cents worth.

JJJHS


Yeah, but... the whole point of the PPP network is that you
only have to make a few contacts, and then pass all the data
rather than a contact for each e-mail. The PPP decides what to
put into the data that goes to each contact.

I suppose that PSK31 would be way too slow. ARPAnet was some
50 kbs, wasn't it?

Yep on ARPANET .
"Around Labor Day of 1969, The first network consisted of four nodes
between UCLA, Stanford, UC Santa Barbara and the University of Utah
in Salt Lake City running at 50 Kpbs!" From the "History of the
Internet"

Of course, I was thinking of a PPP
consisting of say 20 or so hams, and not 20 or so universities
and research facilities with hundreds, or even thousands, of
people sending e-mails. PPP is probably overkill, you're
right.

Might look into what the "Digital SSTV" gang is doing on
14.233, not only pictures but any kind of file can be sent
over the air using the method they are.
See the Yahoo egroup: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digsstv/
File download at: http://digisstv.oz2lw.dk

JJJHS

JohnJacobJingleHimerSchmidt wrote in
news:XP%yc.97443$Ly.13470@attbi_s01:


Of course, I was thinking of a PPP
consisting of say 20 or so hams, and not 20 or so
universities and research facilities with hundreds, or
even thousands, of people sending e-mails. PPP is probably
overkill, you're right.

Might look into what the "Digital SSTV" gang is doing on
14.233, not only pictures but any kind of file can be sent
over the air using the method they are.
See the Yahoo egroup:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digsstv/ File download at:
http://digisstv.oz2lw.dk

JJJHS

Thank you! :-)

Stuart Grey wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote in
:


Stuart Grey wrote:



Oh yeah! I gotta have a question. Okay, here’s one; I’m
interested in this PSK31 * thing. Does anyone do PPP via
this modulation technique, like to pass primitive usenet
like messages, old ftp, or text based web pages?


No, it is a text based mode. Phase shifting can
certainly be used to
send data, but PSK31 is the shifting and an encoding scheme
that sends text only. Correctable too!

Of course, you can send ascii art!

- Mike KB3EIA -


The primitive usenet was all text - mail, usenet, and text based
web using Lynx, connected via PPP.

BUT, if I can send text, I can uuencode binary files, and send
them as text. This whole web thing is entirely text based, yet
by uuencode and other schemes binary files can be passed, and
applications can be created that make viewing or using those
binary files seem transparent.

Well, you could, I suppose. Of course there isn't error correction. The
received print could be cut and pasted from the screen into a text
editor, then saved as the intended file. If you were lucky, you might ge
something.

But 31 baud would be tortuously slow!


BUT, THEN AGAIN, PSK31 uses vericode, which appears, at first
glance to be optimized for English language text messages, with
the vowels being of the shortest number of bits and less
frequently used letters being many more bits. Optimal for
English, much less so for binary. I’ve not looked at it to see
what its efficiency would be compared to other schemes, so I
really shouldn’t say.

Also Caps use more bits. Fortunately the people that use all caps on
psk31 don't seem to be the fastest typers.

BUT, STILL AGAIN, I wouldn’t dream of sending anything but text
via PSK31. I just think it might be cool to use something like
PPP to relay messages about, sort of like repeaters, but not
real time. After all, the original internet was just a few
computers that connected with phone lines at low bit rates; not
at all unlike radio contacts made with PSK31.

I must admit, what I outlined above would make an interesting experiment

Feel free to hit me over the head for quibbling.

Nahh, they are some interesting points.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Stuart Grey wrote:
Hi!

[...]

Oh yeah! I gotta have a question. Okay, here’s one; I’m
interested in this PSK31 * thing. Does anyone do PPP via
this modulation technique, like to pass primitive usenet like
messages, old ftp, or text based web pages?

* http://psk31.com/

Don't forget my site, psk31.org

I have to say that this thread was quite interesting, and worthy of the
newsgroup (in contrast to the name calling and infantile grade-school
playground behavior that is so frequently seen here). It reminds me of
the old days before the non-operating hams started using the newsgroups.

All the best, and 73,
Dave
KZ1O


--
Please put
DBB04
somewhere in the subject line (this year) if
you reply via email, otherwise I will not get
your message. Newsgroups postings don't need it.
Thanks!