"Keith Hosman KC8TCQ" wrote in message
...
Know thyself. If you need
help, call the C.I.A.


Go placidly amid the noise & waste, & remember what comfort there may be in
owning a piece thereof.
Avoid quiet & passive persons unless you are in need of sleep.
Rotate your tires.
Speak glowingly of those greater than yourself and heed well their advice
even though they be turkeys;
know what to kiss and when.
Consider that two wrongs never make a right but that three lefts do.
Wherever possible, put people on hold.
Be comforted that in the face of all aridity & disillusionment and despite
the changing fortunes of time, there will always be a big future in computer
maintenance.
Remember the Pueblo.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle, & mutilate.
Know yourself; if you need help, call the FBI.
Exercise caution in your daily affairs, especially with those persons
closest to you.
That lemon on your left, for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls would scarcely get
your feet wet.
Fall not in love therefore; it will stick to your face.
Gracefully surrender the things of youth, birds, clean air, tuna, Taiwan;
and let not the sands of time get in your lunch.
Hire people with hooks.
For a good time, call 606-4311; ask for Ken.
Take heart amid the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough
cheese; and reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot, it could only
be worse in Milwaukee.
You are a fluke of the universe; you have no right to be here,
and whether you can hear it or not, the universe is laughing behind your
back.
Therefore make peace with your God whatever you conceive Him to be:
Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin.
With all its hopes, dreams, promises & urban renewal, the world continues to
deteriorate.
Give up.

In article , johnson38
@nospam.alvillage.net says...

snippety

So I just want to say "**** you!" to the ignorant IE and OE users who
defend their use of that hole-ridden, abominable software beyond
reason. YOU are one of the major problems with today's Internet.

So... Instead of wasting energy cussing at 'them,' why not HELP
someone, in a nice way, to migrate AWAY from IE and into something like
Opera or Firefox?

Oh, I forgot... It's easier and quicker to simply swear at someone
than it is to do something constructive.


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

"Dr. Anton T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...
In article , johnson38
@nospam.alvillage.net says...

snippety

So I just want to say "**** you!" to the ignorant IE and OE users who
defend their use of that hole-ridden, abominable software beyond
reason. YOU are one of the major problems with today's Internet.

So... Instead of wasting energy cussing at 'them,' why not HELP
someone, in a nice way, to migrate AWAY from IE and into something like
Opera or Firefox?

Oh, I forgot... It's easier and quicker to simply swear at someone
than it is to do something constructive.


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"

Yes. Opera. Foxfire. I think I just got an alert last week that Foxfire
has been found to have a security hole for which there is no known fix (as
of yet). Opera? It has holes. You can subscribe to these government
alerts and see for yourself.

BTW, we point fingers at browsers .... uh ... do you know that Real Player
has problems? Didn't think so. How about file sharing programs? Hehehe
HAR DE HAR HAR.

The list is virtually endless. Various instant messaging programs. Some
stuff that you wouldn't think could even cause a security problem.

I fixed a PC a few weeks ago. Some alleged tech "fixed" the computer.
Returned it sans anti-virus and firewall. Also didn't do updates. It got
hijacked. It took me quite a bit of effort which included removing spyware,
getting a firewall in place, anti-virus in place, and an on-line scan to
remove the last pieces of that nasty thing. I had even been locked out of
regedit! Finally, everything was working except I couldn't get the home
page back. Since I could get into regedit by this time, I simply edited the
registry and it is finally working fine. The problem, in this case, wasn't
with Microsoft or the users. It was a lazy tech that didn't want to do the
whole job.


Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/04

Jim Hampton wrote:
"Dr. Anton T. Squeegee" wrote in message
...

In article , johnson38
says...

snippety

So I just want to say "**** you!" to the ignorant IE and OE users who
defend their use of that hole-ridden, abominable software beyond
reason. YOU are one of the major problems with today's Internet.

So... Instead of wasting energy cussing at 'them,' why not HELP
someone, in a nice way, to migrate AWAY from IE and into something like
Opera or Firefox?

Oh, I forgot... It's easier and quicker to simply swear at someone
than it is to do something constructive.


--
Dr. Anton T. Squeegee, Director, Dutch Surrealist Plumbing Institute.
(Known to some as Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR,
kyrrin (a/t) bluefeathertech[d=o=t]calm -- www.bluefeathertech.com
"If Salvador Dali had owned a computer, would it have been equipped
with surreal ports?"


Yes. Opera. Foxfire. I think I just got an alert last week that Foxfire
has been found to have a security hole for which there is no known fix (as
of yet). Opera? It has holes. You can subscribe to these government
alerts and see for yourself.

BTW, we point fingers at browsers .... uh ... do you know that Real Player
has problems? Didn't think so. How about file sharing programs? Hehehe
HAR DE HAR HAR.

You use Real Player? Just using it is a security issue.


The list is virtually endless. Various instant messaging programs. Some
stuff that you wouldn't think could even cause a security problem.

Instant messaging services is a leading source of spyware. Don't use it.


I fixed a PC a few weeks ago. Some alleged tech "fixed" the computer.
Returned it sans anti-virus and firewall. Also didn't do updates. It got
hijacked. It took me quite a bit of effort which included removing spyware,
getting a firewall in place, anti-virus in place, and an on-line scan to
remove the last pieces of that nasty thing. I had even been locked out of
regedit! Finally, everything was working except I couldn't get the home
page back. Since I could get into regedit by this time, I simply edited the
registry and it is finally working fine. The problem, in this case, wasn't
with Microsoft or the users. It was a lazy tech that didn't want to do the
whole job.

Blaming the victim again, Jim. Like blaming a sexual assault victim
because she was pretty and dressed nice.


You seem to accept the flaws as inevitable and a normal part of
operating. you would never accept a car that has as many flaws as a
typical PC OS.

Browsers and mail readers should never never ever be integrated with
OS's. Ports should be inaccessible unless you tell it to be accessible.
Address books should be encrypted (although there is a chicken and egg
thing going on in that case) The list goes on and on.

Demand competent software!

- Mike KB3EIA -

Chris,

You are the one who is displaying ignorance. There are constant holes and
security problems with not only many browsers, but operating systems as
well. Apple is probably the only one with little or no viruses being
written to attack it as it has a small presence. Unix (Linux) has holes.
As far as browsers, Netscape, Opera, you name it, have security flaws. The
reason O.E. is mentioned so much as it has a large following and is,
therefore, an ideal target for worm/virus writers.

*Everyone* needs good antivirus software (updated *daily*) on their system
as well as a good firewall (also updated). Everyone also needs a good
anti-spyware running on their system - and it is also a good idea to have
one that runs in background and blocks incoming spyware off the internet as
you browse. I'm seeing quite a bit of blocking from Yahoo Groups (attempted
incoming spyware).

Last, but most to the point of your post, everyone should be checking daily
(whether automatically or manually) for updates to their operating system
and browser. These are constantly brought out and if you bother to check
(why don't I think you are well informed?), you will find patches coming out
almost constantly for many different browsers and operating systems.

If you don't do this, you will eventually get bit regardless of what
operating system you use.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim

"Chris" wrote in message
...
Every time another IE hole is discovered, the **** heads say things
like "It isn't the browser; it's the user," and then they go right on
using IE. Now the Computer Emergency Response Team (CERT) has joined
the chorus of people which includes places like TechTV and has said
that IE is just plain insecure. See

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun25.html,

and be sure to read all of the way to the bottom of the article.

It's not that I care about the **** heads themselves, it's that they
allow themselves to be compromised, and then the rest of us have to
pay for it in some way.

Are you getting too much spam? Blame the infected **** heads whose
computers are acting as spam relays.

Is your ISP putting restrictions on email that really hurt? Blame the
infected **** heads again for overloading your ISP's servers or
networks.

So I just want to say "**** you!" to the ignorant IE and OE users who
defend their use of that hole-ridden, abominable software beyond
reason. YOU are one of the major problems with today's Internet.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.711 / Virus Database: 467 - Release Date: 6/25/04

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
Chris,

You are the one who is displaying ignorance. There are constant holes and
security problems with not only many browsers, but operating systems as
well. Apple is probably the only one with little or no viruses being
written to attack it as it has a small presence. Unix (Linux) has holes.
As far as browsers, Netscape, Opera, you name it, have security flaws.
The
reason O.E. is mentioned so much as it has a large following and is,
therefore, an ideal target for worm/virus writers.

*Everyone* needs good antivirus software (updated *daily*) on their system
as well as a good firewall (also updated). Everyone also needs a good
anti-spyware running on their system - and it is also a good idea to have
one that runs in background and blocks incoming spyware off the internet
as
you browse. I'm seeing quite a bit of blocking from Yahoo Groups
(attempted
incoming spyware).

Last, but most to the point of your post, everyone should be checking
daily
(whether automatically or manually) for updates to their operating system
and browser. These are constantly brought out and if you bother to check
(why don't I think you are well informed?), you will find patches coming
out
almost constantly for many different browsers and operating systems.

If you don't do this, you will eventually get bit regardless of what
operating system you use.




Three cheers for Mr. Hampton. Spear a few elitists. I know for a fact
that *nix systems are every bit as vulnerable as Windoze systems, since my
spouse does computer repairs for the US military, and almost everything they
use is a *nix based system. They have problems with hackers on a regular
basis, even through their substantial firewalls.

Point being, the only way you can begin to be sure you are protected is to
have a good firewall and A/V, and keep them running and up to date. The only
times I have EVER had problems with unauthorized ingress to my system have
been when both my firewall and A/V have been down (after a hardware failure
usually)...

Brenda Ann Dyer wrote:
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...

Chris,

You are the one who is displaying ignorance. There are constant holes and
security problems with not only many browsers, but operating systems as
well. Apple is probably the only one with little or no viruses being
written to attack it as it has a small presence. Unix (Linux) has holes.
As far as browsers, Netscape, Opera, you name it, have security flaws.

The

reason O.E. is mentioned so much as it has a large following and is,
therefore, an ideal target for worm/virus writers.

*Everyone* needs good antivirus software (updated *daily*) on their system
as well as a good firewall (also updated). Everyone also needs a good
anti-spyware running on their system - and it is also a good idea to have
one that runs in background and blocks incoming spyware off the internet

as

you browse. I'm seeing quite a bit of blocking from Yahoo Groups

(attempted

incoming spyware).

Last, but most to the point of your post, everyone should be checking

daily

(whether automatically or manually) for updates to their operating system
and browser. These are constantly brought out and if you bother to check
(why don't I think you are well informed?), you will find patches coming

out

almost constantly for many different browsers and operating systems.

If you don't do this, you will eventually get bit regardless of what
operating system you use.





Three cheers for Mr. Hampton. Spear a few elitists. I know for a fact
that *nix systems are every bit as vulnerable as Windoze systems, since my
spouse does computer repairs for the US military, and almost everything they
use is a *nix based system. They have problems with hackers on a regular
basis, even through their substantial firewalls.

Point being, the only way you can begin to be sure you are protected is to
have a good firewall and A/V, and keep them running and up to date. The only
times I have EVER had problems with unauthorized ingress to my system have
been when both my firewall and A/V have been down (after a hardware failure
usually)...


Point is, you are willing to accept software that has the problems in
the first place. Demand competently written software.

- mike -

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ...

Point is, you are willing to accept software that has the problems in
the first place. Demand competently written software.

- mike -


Mike,

My only point is that other software *also* has holes. The only reason
Internet Explorer has been singled out is that it is so popular and
widespread. Heck, there may be some folks with the old TRS-80 model 1 with
a modem and bulletin board software. I'd bet there are no viruses written
for it. I wonder why ... LOL.

I.E. is a big and tempting target, but not any more or less buggy than other
browsers (or, as I mentioned, Windoze vs other systems). Other operating
systems may be more stable (such as Linux), but have security problems as
well.

Best regards from Rochester, NY
Jim



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.713 / Virus Database: 469 - Release Date: 6/30/04

Jim Hampton wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message ...

Point is, you are willing to accept software that has the problems in
the first place. Demand competently written software.

- mike -



Mike,

My only point is that other software *also* has holes. The only reason
Internet Explorer has been singled out is that it is so popular and
widespread. Heck, there may be some folks with the old TRS-80 model 1 with
a modem and bulletin board software. I'd bet there are no viruses written
for it. I wonder why ... LOL.

I.E. is a big and tempting target, but not any more or less buggy than other
browsers (or, as I mentioned, Windoze vs other systems). Other operating
systems may be more stable (such as Linux), but have security problems as
well.

Hey Jim. I think IE is not only a big target, it is an easy one too.
It's integration with the OS looks good on the surface but is a fatal flaw.

I don't think I can convince too many people of that tho', as the
arguments are getting redundant at this point. If you wish, use IE and
Outlook, just be sure to never ever miss an update, and hope the update
works for you. I'll do a different path.

So I'll just have to say "Practice safe computing, in whatever form you
may wish, and all be careful, eh"?


- Mike KB3EIA -

Jim Hampton wrote:
Chris,

You are the one who is displaying ignorance. There are constant holes and
security problems with not only many browsers, but operating systems as
well. Apple is probably the only one with little or no viruses being
written to attack it as it has a small presence. Unix (Linux) has holes.
As far as browsers, Netscape, Opera, you name it, have security flaws. The
reason O.E. is mentioned so much as it has a large following and is,
therefore, an ideal target for worm/virus writers.

The so called integration that IE and Outlook have with the operating
system makes for more security flaws than other systems. All the bad
guys have to have is access to the machine - Internet Explorer - then
access to the OS - that integration, through either a door put in there
purposely or inadvertently, and there you have it. It isn't a good
system security wise. And we should demand more. The typical PC user
apparently doesn't have very high expectations.


Other systems have the occasional flaw, just not so darn many of them.


BUT!


The real disservice that computer geeks have foisted on the world is
the idea of "one platform, one OS".

The PC world is going to treat us to the computer equivalent of the
Irish Potato Famine one of these days. We are inbred, we are
monoculture. We all have the same vulnerabilities.

What we need is machines that are enough different that what takes one
out does not take all the others out. We also need operators that are
not so far into the woods that they can't see the trees.



*Everyone* needs good antivirus software (updated *daily*) on their system
as well as a good firewall (also updated).

I need that on my PC's. My Mac doesn't.


Everyone also needs a good
anti-spyware running on their system - and it is also a good idea to have
one that runs in background and blocks incoming spyware off the internet as
you browse.

I need that on my PC's for sure.


I'm seeing quite a bit of blocking from Yahoo Groups (attempted
incoming spyware).

Oh yes. It is amazing the source of some of the spyware.


Last, but most to the point of your post, everyone should be checking daily
(whether automatically or manually) for updates to their operating system
and browser. These are constantly brought out and if you bother to check
(why don't I think you are well informed?), you will find patches coming out
almost constantly for many different browsers and operating systems.

Here is another problem though. These updates not only protect your
computer by patching security holes, they sometimes protect your
computer by causing it to cease operating. (a computer that doesn't work
catches no virii) On my PC, I will usually wait a few days in order to
hear what problems the "updates" are causing.


If you don't do this, you will eventually get bit regardless of what
operating system you use.

I get bit regardless. My Norton's finds a virus here and there despite
my running a proxy server, 2 firewalls, and updating the virus def's all
the time.

I use both PC's and Macs extensively, so I feel I can comment
knowledgeably. Using a PC is getting to be operations under siege. What
the PC users consider to be normal operations is not what normal
operations should be. Meanwhile, I just use my Mac and do the work I
need to do without all the fuss and muss. (p.s. - you should see all the
cool ham radio software that is out for OSX!)

And my final note is that you have done just what the original poster
noted in his post. (albeit his more crudely) That is to blame it on the
user. That doesn't flush. Don't blame the victim. We can't expect all
users to be IT professionals or even highly competent.

If the manufacturers produce software that has gaping security flaws,
it is their fault, not mine.

- Mike KB3EIA -