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GMRS/FRS transceiver & FCC licensing
Hello,
I just got a pack of two Audiovox GMRS7001-2CH two-way radios and had an unpleasant surprise after opening the package - "USE OF THIS RADIO ... REQUIRES FCC LICENSE". Some research showed that, yes, transmitting on a GMRS frequency requires license. However, the radio have 7 "FRS-only" channels (freq. 467.5625-467.7125). Do I need license is I use ONLY those channels? I expect to need the radio once or twice per year when camping, and I don't want to spend money and time on FCC license, if not needed for the FRS channels. Regards, Gonzo |
GMRS and FRS are both citizens band allocations. GMRS is a licensed radio
service, authorizing higher power and flexibility. FRS is unlicensed, with significant restrictions. FRS frequencies are interleaved with GMRS frequencies. GMRS radios are also authorized to transmit on FRS channels 1 to 7 with no more than 5 watts and using 5 KHz deviation. GMRS uses 467 MHz frequencies as repeater input channels. All FRS channels are simplex, with 3 Khz deviation and 500 milliwatts. FRS Frequencies a.. CH01 462.5625 b.. CH02 462.5875 c.. CH03 462.6125 d.. CH04 462.6375 e.. CH05 462.6625 f.. CH06 462.6875 g.. CH07 462.7125 h.. i.. CH08 467.5625 j.. CH09 467.5875 k.. CH10 467.6125 l.. CH11 467.6373 m.. CH12 467.6625 n.. CH13 467.8874 o.. CH14 467.7125 Do I need license is I use ONLY those channels? NO Ace - www.WH2T.com Hello, I just got a pack of two Audiovox GMRS7001-2CH two-way radios and had an unpleasant surprise after opening the package - "USE OF THIS RADIO ... REQUIRES FCC LICENSE". Some research showed that, yes, transmitting on a GMRS frequency requires license. However, the radio have 7 "FRS-only" channels (freq. 467.5625-467.7125). Do I need license is I use ONLY those channels? I expect to need the radio once or twice per year when camping, and I don't want to spend money and time on FCC license, if not needed for the FRS channels. Regards, Gonzo |
Thanks for the answers. Now I start to see what should I do,
but still would like to check with you if this is OK. According to the manual, if I switch to low output power mode (it has two modes) the maximum output power is 0.5 watt. This should mean, according to my understanding, that if I use it only in low- power mode and only on the FRS channels I should be fine. So, I plan instead of returning the radios to the shop, to go on using them with those limitations. I still prefer to have the high power option, in case of real emergency, that's why I prefer not to switch to FRS-only radio. Also, I would like to start listening from time to time on the GMRS channels (no transmitting), just to see how are the things there and decide if I would like to get GMRS license or not (I probably would). Is this OK? Thanks, - Gonzo |
Hi Gonzo ,
That is what I would do. I have read the related laws. I know some people will say you will be breaking the law because of FCC type acceptance. Ace - WH2T wrote in message oups.com... Thanks for the answers. Now I start to see what should I do, but still would like to check with you if this is OK. According to the manual, if I switch to low output power mode (it has two modes) the maximum output power is 0.5 watt. This should mean, according to my understanding, that if I use it only in low- power mode and only on the FRS channels I should be fine. So, I plan instead of returning the radios to the shop, to go on using them with those limitations. I still prefer to have the high power option, in case of real emergency, that's why I prefer not to switch to FRS-only radio. Also, I would like to start listening from time to time on the GMRS channels (no transmitting), just to see how are the things there and decide if I would like to get GMRS license or not (I probably would). Is this OK? Thanks, - Gonzo |
wrote in news:1112720808.942240.213740
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com: Thanks for the answers. Now I start to see what should I do, but still would like to check with you if this is OK. According to the manual, if I switch to low output power mode (it has two modes) the maximum output power is 0.5 watt. This should mean, according to my understanding, that if I use it only in low- power mode and only on the FRS channels I should be fine. No. Since the radio is a type-certified GMRS radio, you will require a license regardless. So, I plan instead of returning the radios to the shop, to go on using them with those limitations. I still prefer to have the high power option, in case of real emergency, that's why I prefer not to switch to FRS-only radio. Also, I would like to start listening from time to time on the GMRS channels (no transmitting), just to see how are the things there and decide if I would like to get GMRS license or not (I probably would). Is this OK? Nope. See above, and see my original followup to your original post, as well as the links I offered you. A license is REQUIRED to use that radio, under any and all conditions. -- John L. Wilkerson Jr. GMRS Consumer information website: http://www.geocities.com/johnlwilker....net/gmrs.html |
Dr.Ace - WH2T wrote: GMRS and FRS are both citizens band allocations. One comment. GMRS is absolutely NOT a citizen's band service. No where in the CB regulations does it list GMRS. GMRS *did* develop from the old "Class A CB" service, however. It is one of the personal radio services. |
"John L. Wilkerson Jr." wrote A license is REQUIRED to use that radio, under any and all conditions. So far as the letter-of-the-law is concerned, John is correct. As a practical matter SO LONG AS YOU TRANSMIT ONLY ON FRS channels and ONLY AT THE LOW POWER SETTING then you are unlikely to upset anyone nor invite the attention of any radio police. |
See
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search wrote in message oups.com... Dr.Ace - WH2T wrote: GMRS and FRS are both citizens band allocations. One comment. GMRS is absolutely NOT a citizen's band service. No where in the CB regulations does it list GMRS. GMRS *did* develop from the old "Class A CB" service, however. It is one of the personal radio services. |
People use radios including amateur radios for purposes other than they were
type accepted everyday . Some police use amateur radios that tranmit on police frequencies, they cost less than Motorola equipment. Some amateurs use police radios that have been modified to work on amateur frequencies etc. etc. Nuff Said Ace - WH2T "John L. Wilkerson Jr." wrote in message ... "Dr.Ace - WH2T" wrote in : Hi Gonzo , That is what I would do. I have read the related laws. I know some people will say you will be breaking the law because of FCC type acceptance. That is absolutely correct. He should NOT under any circumstances use the radio, until he licenses. You wouldn't like it if someone used an amateur radio without a license, now would you? Us Licensed GMRS operators feel the same way. |
Amateurs can use any type radio they want to use on amateur frequencies,
Ham radios don't need to be type accepted, I've converted many CB's to use on 10 meters and that's legal. I also understand that anybody can own any type of radio as long as they listen and don't transmit, lots of amateur equipment is sold everyday to people that only want to listen to short-wave. I guess some get put on the cb band, but oh well, life goes on. I don't see anything in the law that says I can't own GMRS radios without a license, only I need a license to transmit on GMrs frequencies. Dr.Ace - WH2T wrote: People use radios including amateur radios for purposes other than they were type accepted everyday . Some police use amateur radios that tranmit on police frequencies, they cost less than Motorola equipment. Some amateurs use police radios that have been modified to work on amateur frequencies etc. etc. Nuff Said Ace - WH2T "John L. Wilkerson Jr." wrote in message ... "Dr.Ace - WH2T" wrote in : Hi Gonzo , That is what I would do. I have read the related laws. I know some people will say you will be breaking the law because of FCC type acceptance. That is absolutely correct. He should NOT under any circumstances use the radio, until he licenses. You wouldn't like it if someone used an amateur radio without a license, now would you? Us Licensed GMRS operators feel the same way. |
KC8GXW wrote:
I don't see anything in the law that says I can't own GMRS radios without a license, only I need a license to transmit on GMrs frequencies. Yep you sure can, I have two units that cover both FRS (license free) and GMRS frequencies. I can use the FRS frequencies without a license but not the GMRS, but I sure can listen to GMRS freqs all I want. |
Dr.Ace - WH2T wrote:
People use radios including amateur radios for purposes other than they were type accepted everyday . Some police use amateur radios that tranmit on police frequencies, they cost less than Motorola equipment. Some amateurs use police radios that have been modified to work on amateur frequencies etc. etc. Nuff Said Ace - WH2T Why do some end a post with "nuff said"? Is that supposed to mean something? |
"Dr.Ace - WH2T" wrote in
: See http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...both+citizens+ band+allocations%22&btnG=Google+Search That information is wrong. You need to read the CB regulations as stated in part 95: [Code of Federal Regulations] [Title 47, Volume 5, Parts 80 to End] [Revised as of October 1, 2000] From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access [CITE: 47CFR95.401] [Page 533-534] TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION COMMISSION (CONTINUED) PART 95--PERSONAL RADIO SERVICES--Table of Contents Subpart D--Citizens Band (CB) Radio Service Sec. 95.401 (CB Rule 1) What are the Citizens Band Radio Services? Source: 48 FR 24894, June 3, 1983, unless otherwise noted. General Provisions The Citizens Band Radio Services a (a) The Citizens Band (CB) Radio Service--a private, two-way, short- distance voice communications service for personal or business activities of the general public. The CB Radio Service may also be used for voice paging. (b) The Family Radio Service (FRS)--a private, two-way, very short- distance voice communications service for facilitating family and group activities. The rules for this service are contained in subpart B of this part. (c) The Low Power Radio Service (LPRS)--a private, short-distance communication service providing auditory assistance to persons with disabilities, persons who require language translation, and persons in educational settings, health care assistance to the ill, law enforcement tracking services in cooperation with law enforcement, and point-to- point network control communications for Automated Marine Telecommunications System (AMTS) coast stations licensed under part 80 of this chapter. The rules for this service are listed under subpart G of this part. Two-way voice communications are prohibited. (d) The Medical Implant Communications Service (MICS)--an ultra-low power radio service for the transmission of non-voice data for the purpose of facilitating diagnostic and/or therapeutic functions involving implanted medical devices. The rules for this service are contained in subpart I of this part. (e) The Wireless Medical Telemetry Service (WMTS)--a private, short distance data communication service for the transmission of patient medical information to a central monitoring location in a hospital or other medical facility. Voice and video communications are prohibited. Waveforms such as electrocardiograms (ECGs) are not considered video. The rules for this GMRS is not listed. |
John L. Wilkerson Jr. wrote: Cmd Buzz Corey wrote in : KC8GXW wrote: I don't see anything in the law that says I can't own GMRS radios without a license, only I need a license to transmit on GMrs frequencies. Yep you sure can, I have two units that cover both FRS (license free) and GMRS frequencies. I can use the FRS frequencies without a license but not the GMRS, but I sure can listen to GMRS freqs all I want. That was all previously addressed. You CANNOT legally use one of these radios ON ANY frequency without a GMRS license. Since the radio is classified as a GMRS radio, use even on the FRS freqs constitutes a violation of FCC regulations. What FCC regulations? Just because you say there are FCC regulations doesn't make it true! Give us a FCC regulation number, a page number, something besides "I said" |
"Dr.Ace - WH2T" ) writes: People use radios including amateur radios for purposes other than they were type accepted everyday . Some police use amateur radios that tranmit on police frequencies, they cost less than Motorola equipment. Some amateurs use police radios that have been modified to work on amateur frequencies etc. etc. Nuff Said Ace - WH2T And there is no type approval for amateur radio. It's the one radio service that is pretty open ended, because of its very nature. Since amateurs can build their own equipment, it would be pretty silly to require type approval of equipment. There is absolutely no restriction against modifying equipment to work on the ham bands, though if you modify it chances are good that it no longer meets the original type acceptance for the other service so you can no longer use it there. And just because people use amateur equipment illegally in other services does not make it right. One reason amateur equipment is cheaper than equivalent equipment for other services is because it's not type approved, so at the very least the cost of getting it approved is not there. Micahel VE2BVW "John L. Wilkerson Jr." wrote in message ... "Dr.Ace - WH2T" wrote in : Hi Gonzo , That is what I would do. I have read the related laws. I know some people will say you will be breaking the law because of FCC type acceptance. That is absolutely correct. He should NOT under any circumstances use the radio, until he licenses. You wouldn't like it if someone used an amateur radio without a license, now would you? Us Licensed GMRS operators feel the same way. |
John L. Wilkerson Jr. wrote:
Cmd Buzz Corey wrote in : KC8GXW wrote: I don't see anything in the law that says I can't own GMRS radios without a license, only I need a license to transmit on GMrs frequencies. Yep you sure can, I have two units that cover both FRS (license free) and GMRS frequencies. I can use the FRS frequencies without a license but not the GMRS, but I sure can listen to GMRS freqs all I want. That was all previously addressed. You CANNOT legally use one of these radios ON ANY frequency without a GMRS license. Since the radio is classified as a GMRS radio, use even on the FRS freqs constitutes a violation of FCC regulations. Hello again. I may be out of my league here, but here is something I found in the FCC permit for the model I own, that should put an end to this debate: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FCC IDENTIFIER: PDHGMRS7001 Name of Grantee: TTI Tech Co., Ltd. Equipment Class: Part 95 Family Radio Face Held Transmitter Notes: FRS/ GMRS Combination [...] This device is authorized to operate in the following radio services: FRS (Part 95B) or GMRS (Part 95A). There must be an informational insert inside the box (product package) or the User's Manual must include information that clearly informs the consumer (buyer/owner) when the radio is transmitting on GMRS frequencies, that operation on GMRS frequencies requires an FCC license and such operation is subject to additional rules specified in 47 C.F.R. Part 95. [...] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think FCC here clearly states that FCC license is required only "when the radio is transmitting on GMRS frequencies". Note that the devide is described not as GMRS radio, but as "FRS/GMRS Combination" - this may explain the different oppinions expressed in this thread. I noticed also, that when a FRS frequency is selected, the only allowed mode is low power, "up to 0.5 W". Probably this is why they can classify it as FRS/GMRS combo. So, I'm going to use this without license on the FRS-only frequencies, and will listen only on the GMRS channels to see how it is and do I want to get GMRS licensed. If FCC says this is OK, who am I to object?! :-) Sorry that I didn't find this info before asking the question. Regards, - Gonzo P.S. I think FCC here did a sloppy job in requiring the manufacturer to put the license requirement INSIDE the box or in the manual, but not OUTSIDE the box. Thaty's crazy! Actually, I found the licensing requirement OUTSIDE on the box, but this was just after reading the manual and carefully inspecting the packaging to look for it - it was there, in one corner of the box, below some other text and probably with the smallest font they could find! |
Forgot to mention - the FCC permit info that I copied above did
not come with the radio - I had to search in the FCC site for it. I tell you that, so you will not think that I had it all the time in the manual but was too lazy to RTFM. :-) - G |
"KØHB" wrote in message
"John L. Wilkerson Jr." wrote A license is REQUIRED to use that radio, under any and all conditions. So far as the letter-of-the-law is concerned, John is correct. As a practical matter SO LONG AS YOU TRANSMIT ONLY ON FRS channels and ONLY AT THE LOW POWER SETTING then you are unlikely to upset anyone nor invite the attention of any radio police. I don't see how it's not ok to use the radio at 500mw in the FRS freqs. I'd like to see where it says that. What does this say to you? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- FCC IDENTIFIER: PDHGMRS7001 Name of Grantee: TTI Tech Co., Ltd. Equipment Class: Part 95 Family Radio Face Held Transmitter Notes: FRS/ GMRS Combination [...] This device is authorized to operate in the following radio services: FRS (Part 95B) or GMRS (Part 95A). There must be an informational insert inside the box (product package) or the User's Manual must include information that clearly informs the consumer (buyer/owner) when the radio is transmitting on GMRS frequencies, that operation on GMRS frequencies requires an FCC license and such operation is subject to additional rules specified in 47 C.F.R. Part 95. [...] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is no mention of needing a license to operate on FRS. Adair - KD5DYP |
John L. Wilkerson Jr. wrote:
Cmd Buzz Corey wrote in : KC8GXW wrote: I don't see anything in the law that says I can't own GMRS radios without a license, only I need a license to transmit on GMrs frequencies. Yep you sure can, I have two units that cover both FRS (license free) and GMRS frequencies. I can use the FRS frequencies without a license but not the GMRS, but I sure can listen to GMRS freqs all I want. That was all previously addressed. You CANNOT legally use one of these radios ON ANY frequency without a GMRS license. Since the radio is classified as a GMRS radio, use even on the FRS freqs constitutes a violation of FCC regulations. BS, the instructions that came with my radios plainly state that the FCC requires GMRS users to have a license, FRS users do not and there is an application blank included for the GMRS license. |
Adair Winter wrote:
"KØHB" wrote in message "John L. Wilkerson Jr." wrote A license is REQUIRED to use that radio, under any and all conditions. So far as the letter-of-the-law is concerned, John is correct. As a practical matter SO LONG AS YOU TRANSMIT ONLY ON FRS channels and ONLY AT THE LOW POWER SETTING then you are unlikely to upset anyone nor invite the attention of any radio police. I don't see how it's not ok to use the radio at 500mw in the FRS freqs. I'd like to see where it says that. You can use it on FRS freqs license free, but not on the GMRS freqs. Wilkerson doesn't know what he is talking about. |
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