"b.b." wrote in message
oups.com...


Paul Traina wrote:
Thanks to all of you, data was found, I'm now kc6tcn/ag.

Paul, congrats.

Live long and prosper and don't sweat over the code.


He doesn't need to sweat over the code. As you can see, he earned his
General license.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

He doesn't need to sweat over the code. As you can see, he earned his
General license.


He never need touch a key again, but if he wants to,
have at it.....

Oh stop your stupid whining a crying! You live in a 1950s time warp.
BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
I'm not to sure about the first test being 5 words per minute. Someone
more
savvy than I will have to let us know what the real scoop was.

I believe that 13 was the minimum until the novice came into being in the
50s.

The commercial licenses were a bit tougher. The standard circuits
(commercial mariners) operated around 25 to 30 words per minute in the mid
60s. I know as I was with some folks that inspected a commercial vessel
on
Guam in the mid 60s and I chatted with the radio officer.

The 5 words per minute test was to allow entry level folks a chance to get
their feet wet. It had nothing to do with being able to chase someone off
a
frequency.

What no one appreciates is that way back when, in almost any endeavor,
there
were no licenses. Who would Wilbur Wright apply to for an aircraft
license?
The first automobiles had no licensing restrictions. After a bit, they
started posting speed limits as the "horseless carriages" startled horses!
The same applied to radio. No licenses at first. Only when the airways
started to get a bit crowded and folks started acting like they do in this
newsgroup did laws come into being.

Eventually, folks needed laws. They needed to have a method of going down
a
street and knowing who had the right of way. Do you want someone parking
in
the middle of a street? Or going 60 or 80 miles per hour down a
residential
street?

Unfortunately, many do not understand that laws are to allow all of us to
use limited resources in such a way that all can enjoy them.

As to Morse, I'm neither for nor against; I am however, somewhat aghast at
the folks that do have a license and appear quite clueless as to any of
the
rules and regulations that are designed to protect all.


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA



"b.b." wrote in message
oups.com...


b.b. wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
"Paul Traina" wrote in message
oups.com...
You could be right, sigh. I feel a little guilty for doing it this
way, but if the FCC says it's good, then who am I to argue.
Besides, I
bet a few of them couldn't pass the new element 3. I took it in
1978-9 timeframe, and it's a new ballgame.


No need to feel guilty. Besides if look at the history of licensing
the
earliest requirements were only 5wpm on code.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

I've been pointing that out for years, but the PCTA tend to ignore that
aspect of testing.

And another thing. I recall Jim or Kelly or some other Extra explain
that prior to the first 5wpm code exam, that there was no code exam.
But it was important to be able to understand code so that a government
station could tell you that you were interfering with them. And so
they implemented the 5wpm exam. And now that no other service uses
code...

Dee Flint wrote:
"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
I'm not to sure about the first test being 5 words per minute. Someone
more
savvy than I will have to let us know what the real scoop was.

I believe that 13 was the minimum until the novice came into being in the
50s.


See "The Art and Skill of Radiotelegraphy" available as a free download.
It documents the history of testing for amateur radio. It was 5 wpm at the
beginning of testing.

Hmmm? What was the code test at the beginning of licensing?

Dee Flint wrote:
"b.b." wrote in message
oups.com...


Paul Traina wrote:
Thanks to all of you, data was found, I'm now kc6tcn/ag.

Paul, congrats.

Live long and prosper and don't sweat over the code.


He doesn't need to sweat over the code. As you can see, he earned his
General license.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee, don't you sweat over the code either.

robert casey wrote:

He doesn't need to sweat over the code. As you can see, he earned his
General license.


He never need touch a key again, but if he wants to,
have at it.....

Yep! There are plenty of Code Tape Extras out there who've never sent
a single dit in their lives.

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"Jim Hampton" wrote in message
...
I'm not to sure about the first test being 5 words per minute. Someone
more
savvy than I will have to let us know what the real scoop was.

I believe that 13 was the minimum until the novice came into being in
the
50s.


See "The Art and Skill of Radiotelegraphy" available as a free download.
It documents the history of testing for amateur radio. It was 5 wpm at
the
beginning of testing. The multilevel code tests came in later.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE


Thanks for information, Dee.

I wonder if that's where Jim, N2EY got his information


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim Hampton wrote:
I'm not to sure about the first test being 5 words per minute.
Someone more
savvy than I will have to let us know what the real scoop was.

Quick history of code tests for USA ham licenses:

The 1912 rules that moved amateurs to "200 meters and down" required a
code test of 5 wpm for a standard amateur license. That
state of affairs existed until the WW1 shut down in May, 1917.

It should be noted that during the WW1 shutdown, receiving as well as
transmitting was forbidden.

When amateurs were allowed back on the air after WW1 (thanks to the
work of Maxim, Stewart, and a few others, mostly prewar ARRL
directors), the new licenses required a 10 wpm code test.

From 1919 until 1936, the code test speed was 10 wpm. There was also an
"Amateur Extra First Grade" license that required 20 wpm. It was
short-lived in the early 1920s.

In 1936, the code test speed was raised to 13 wpm. The written exams
were improved at the same time.

In 1951, the Novice and Technician licenses were created, and required
5 wpm. The Extra (as we know it) was also created then and required 20
wpm.

That state of affairs existed until 1990, when the code test waivers
were introduced, and then 2000, when all code testing was eliminated
except 5 wpm.

I believe that 13 was the minimum until the novice came into
being in the 50s.

From 1936 to 1951, the *only* code test for US hams was 13 wpm.


The commercial licenses were a bit tougher. The standard
circuits
(commercial mariners) operated around 25 to 30 words per minute in the
mid
60s. I know as I was with some folks that inspected a
commercial vessel on
Guam in the mid 60s and I chatted with the radio officer.

The 5 words per minute test was to allow entry level folks a
chance to get
their feet wet. It had nothing to do with being able to chase someone
off a frequency.

Exactly. The idea was that it would be easier and faster to learn by
doing.

However, one of the reasons for code testing back in 1912 was to avoid
interference. This was really a way of insuring that all radio stations
knew and used the *same* code, because before 1912 there was more than
one code in use on the air!

But interference mitigation was not the only reason for code testing.
There are still good reasons for code testing today, such as its
widespread use by amateurs.

Fun fact: Until 1927, Amateur Radio was not a separate service that was
recognized by international treaty. Instead, it existed solely at the
pleasure of each country, and the privileges varied all over the place.

All that changed in 1927, when a new treaty set up worldwide bands for
hams, basic rules and procedures, etc.

One of the new 1927 requirements was that all amateurs pass
a code test. Prior to that, code testing for hams existed only because
individual countries required it.

What no one appreciates is that way back when, in almost any
endeavor, there were no licenses. Who would Wilbur Wright
apply to for an aircraft license?
The first automobiles had no licensing restrictions. After a
bit, they
started posting speed limits as the "horseless carriages"
startled horses!
The same applied to radio. No licenses at first. Only when
the airways
started to get a bit crowded and folks started acting like they do in
this newsgroup did laws come into being.

Yep. "Wireless" was around for more than a decade before 1912. There
were a few treaties and some regulations but they didn't do much,
compared to what came after.

It should be remembered that many concepts we see clearly today were
not even imagined in the early days. For example, broadcasting was not
considered in the 1912 rules - nobody really thought that millions of
people would own radio receivers to listen to stations that did nothing
but transmit.

There were many bills written and proposed to regulate wireless before
1912, some of them very draconian. One concept that was fortunately
defeated was the idea of licensing *receiving* stations...

Eventually, folks needed laws. They needed to have a method of going
down a
street and knowing who had the right of way. Do you want
someone parking in
the middle of a street? Or going 60 or 80 miles per hour down a
residential street?

Yup. Of course if there's only a few cars on the road and they go 10
mph top speed, you don't need many rules.

Didja know that it was Hiram Percy Maxim hisself who convinced the
fledgling US auto industry that traffic should keep to the right and
the driver sit on the left? HPM was into a lot more things than radio.

Unfortunately, many do not understand that laws are to allow
all of us to
use limited resources in such a way that all can enjoy them.

Yep. Some folks don't understand that with rights come
responsibilities.

As to Morse, I'm neither for nor against; I am however,
somewhat aghast at
the folks that do have a license and appear quite clueless as
to any of the
rules and regulations that are designed to protect all.

Me too!

73 de Jim, N2EY


Thanks for a *lot* of information, Jim

Either you're an Einstein, or a good Google user


73 from Rochester, NY
Jim AA2QA

Jim Hampton wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Jim Hampton wrote:
I'm not to sure about the first test being 5 words per minute.
Someone more
savvy than I will have to let us know what the real scoop was.

Quick history of code tests for USA ham licenses:

The 1912 rules that moved amateurs to "200 meters and down" required a
code test of 5 wpm for a standard amateur license. That
state of affairs existed until the WW1 shut down in May, 1917.

It should be noted that during the WW1 shutdown, receiving as well as
transmitting was forbidden.

When amateurs were allowed back on the air after WW1 (thanks to the
work of Maxim, Stewart, and a few others, mostly prewar ARRL
directors), the new licenses required a 10 wpm code test.

From 1919 until 1936, the code test speed was 10 wpm. There was also an
"Amateur Extra First Grade" license that required 20 wpm. It was
short-lived in the early 1920s.

In 1936, the code test speed was raised to 13 wpm. The written exams
were improved at the same time.

In 1951, the Novice and Technician licenses were created, and required
5 wpm. The Extra (as we know it) was also created then and required 20
wpm.

That state of affairs existed until 1990, when the code test waivers
were introduced, and then 2000, when all code testing was eliminated
except 5 wpm.

I believe that 13 was the minimum until the novice came into
being in the 50s.

From 1936 to 1951, the *only* code test for US hams was 13 wpm.


The commercial licenses were a bit tougher. The standard
circuits
(commercial mariners) operated around 25 to 30 words per minute in the
mid
60s. I know as I was with some folks that inspected a
commercial vessel on
Guam in the mid 60s and I chatted with the radio officer.

The 5 words per minute test was to allow entry level folks a
chance to get
their feet wet. It had nothing to do with being able to chase someone
off a frequency.

Exactly. The idea was that it would be easier and faster to learn by
doing.

However, one of the reasons for code testing back in 1912 was to avoid
interference. This was really a way of insuring that all radio stations
knew and used the *same* code, because before 1912 there was more than
one code in use on the air!

But interference mitigation was not the only reason for code testing.
There are still good reasons for code testing today, such as its
widespread use by amateurs.

Fun fact: Until 1927, Amateur Radio was not a separate service that was
recognized by international treaty. Instead, it existed solely at the
pleasure of each country, and the privileges varied all over the place.

All that changed in 1927, when a new treaty set up worldwide bands for
hams, basic rules and procedures, etc.

One of the new 1927 requirements was that all amateurs pass
a code test. Prior to that, code testing for hams existed only because
individual countries required it.

What no one appreciates is that way back when, in almost any
endeavor, there were no licenses. Who would Wilbur Wright
apply to for an aircraft license?
The first automobiles had no licensing restrictions. After a
bit, they
started posting speed limits as the "horseless carriages"
startled horses!
The same applied to radio. No licenses at first. Only when
the airways
started to get a bit crowded and folks started acting like they do in
this newsgroup did laws come into being.

Yep. "Wireless" was around for more than a decade before 1912. There
were a few treaties and some regulations but they didn't do much,
compared to what came after.

It should be remembered that many concepts we see clearly today were
not even imagined in the early days. For example, broadcasting was not
considered in the 1912 rules - nobody really thought that millions of
people would own radio receivers to listen to stations that did nothing
but transmit.

There were many bills written and proposed to regulate wireless before
1912, some of them very draconian. One concept that was fortunately
defeated was the idea of licensing *receiving* stations...

Eventually, folks needed laws. They needed to have a method of going
down a
street and knowing who had the right of way. Do you want
someone parking in
the middle of a street? Or going 60 or 80 miles per hour down a
residential street?

Yup. Of course if there's only a few cars on the road and they go 10
mph top speed, you don't need many rules.

Didja know that it was Hiram Percy Maxim hisself who convinced the
fledgling US auto industry that traffic should keep to the right and
the driver sit on the left? HPM was into a lot more things than radio.

Unfortunately, many do not understand that laws are to allow
all of us to
use limited resources in such a way that all can enjoy them.

Yep. Some folks don't understand that with rights come
responsibilities.

As to Morse, I'm neither for nor against; I am however,
somewhat aghast at
the folks that do have a license and appear quite clueless as
to any of the
rules and regulations that are designed to protect all.

Me too!

73 de Jim, N2EY


Thanks for a *lot* of information, Jim

Heck, that was the *short* version!

Either you're an Einstein, or a good Google user

I'm neither - all that came from other sources. Writing that piece
about the past 50 years of US amateur radio licensing about 5 years ago
helped a lot. (you did see that piece?)

Didja know that in 1964-65 when the "incentive licensing" idea was
being developed, FCC proposed a *fourth* code test speed of 16 wpm?
Existing Advanceds would have been demoted to General, and a new
"Amateur First Class" would have taken the spot between General and
Extra. Fortunately that idea was abandoned.

73 de Jim, N2EY

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Oh stop your stupid whining a crying! You live in a 1950s time warp.
BWAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH



Nope, not really. It is about rules.

I just finally solved a problem I've had. These cars and those stupid
*loud* stereo systems in 'em. An idiot parked outside my house (lovely day,
around 70 and low humidity) and I was trying to eat dinner.

I finally decided that "rules" don't work (there is a noise ordinance here).
So .... I turned Direct TV to the big bands and started cranking. All 5
channels are hooked to Bose speakers rated sufficiently to handle it.
Several hundred watts. Normally, the TV is too loud at 8 and I usually run
it at 6 for television and perhaps 7 for music.

I only had it up to around 35 or 40 when I knocked 4 pictures off the walls.
The whole house was shaking. I left it there for about 60 seconds, then
turned it back down. The idiot figured it out. Since his windows were also
open, I suspect he got the drift in a hurry. I could no longer hear his car
system

As to the folks that are discouraged by encroachment on the ham bands, they
should figure out that sporadic e on the 10 meter band can be fickle. If
you hear a very loud signal, that doesn't necessarily mean you can interfere
with his transmission as he may be talking to someone you can't hear and
can't hear you. Wait till he stops talking, then turn on the RTTY. Even
barefoot, you'll likely kill his reception. If he can't hear 'em, he can't
work 'em.

It ain't the number of guns you have, it's who you shoot.
))



With all due regards from Rochester, NY
Jim