In article ,
notbob wrote:

[snip]
This worries me because it highlights the shortcomings of all this new
high tech gimcrackery. As I understand it, even satellite cellphones
require a service provider with a nearby uplink antenna. So, this
brings up my question, as a non ham:

How long do you think it would have taken James, or anyone in that
situation, to make contact with outside help and get him and his
family out of there if he'd had something like a basic QRP tranceiver
and antenna and knew how to use it?

Any thoughts you may have on this issue would be appreciated.

Well, the _right_ high tech gimcrackery (a "personnel locator beacon",
e.g. http://www.landfallnavigation.com/spwff1.html) would almost
certainly have been effective. And I'm sorry for his family's loss, and
can appreciate that Mr. Kim must have felt that taking action was
necessary to save his wife and children, but had he _stayed_put_ he'd be
alive today.

I agree...here in the Northern U.S. where we (usually) get plenty of
snow and ice, we were taught to stay with the vehicle (and it's always a
good idea to have an emergency supply of food and water in the car,
especially in the winter months). In the case of an air search and
rescue, it's far easier to spot a car on the ground (which is usually
very near to a road) rather than spot a person in the woods...

Scott



BakersT wrote:

Well, the _right_ high tech gimcrackery (a "personnel locator beacon",
e.g. http://www.landfallnavigation.com/spwff1.html) would almost
certainly have been effective. And I'm sorry for his family's loss, and
can appreciate that Mr. Kim must have felt that taking action was
necessary to save his wife and children, but had he _stayed_put_ he'd be
alive today.

That is really rugged country... And even with a determined multi day
search by air and snowmobile they only found her by accident... Likely
if she hadn't had the umbrella they would have sailed right on past
without seeing her... It is sheer happenstance that any survived..
Given this coddled, technological world we live in, we have lost our
fear of nature... We walk around in freezing weather wearing only a
light jacket, get into a self heating car and drive away from the
suburban streets into rugged country with the Sirius music playing and
the kids banging on the gameboy...But when our technological tools
fail, we are totally unequipped to survive in a situation of being
stranded in a hostile environment...

Could I have made the same mistake? Maybe... But, I am the product of
Northern Michigan, I live in a rural area, I drive 5000# of 4X4 truck,
I usually wear a -20F parka, even to run to the store 2.5 miles away...
Maybe my inherent caution would have made me question that road and
turn around... Maybe not... Glad it was not me...

denny

Well put.

Living in northeast Montana teaches one to NEVER go out, anywhere, unless
you are prepared to spend time in a hostile environment. There are those who
do the same thing every year up here, fortunately it usually has a happier
ending. Nature is very unforgiving and could care less who you are, where
you are from, what you do, etc., etc. Lose sight of that and forget to
respect nature and some hard life lessons will bestow themselves upon you,
some of them can, unfortunately, be self critiquing.

we never travel in that type of area but
when we do travel by car, got plenty of food,
several boxes cereal for me not the kids !,
cooler with drinks and h2o and several
road flares (makes fires fast) and my 2m/440 mobile kenwood
and ht.

also have old cb from 1975 and it works.


Scott wrote:

I agree...here in the Northern U.S. where we (usually) get plenty of
snow and ice, we were taught to stay with the vehicle (and it's always a
good idea to have an emergency supply of food and water in the car,
especially in the winter months). In the case of an air search and
rescue, it's far easier to spot a car on the ground (which is usually
very near to a road) rather than spot a person in the woods...

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 08:26:28 -0500, Lois wrote in :

Scott wrote:

I agree...here in the Northern U.S. where we (usually) get plenty of
snow and ice, we were taught to stay with the vehicle (and it's always a
good idea to have an emergency supply of food and water in the car,
especially in the winter months). In the case of an air search and
rescue, it's far easier to spot a car on the ground (which is usually
very near to a road) rather than spot a person in the woods...


we never travel in that type of area but when we do travel by car,
got plenty of food, several boxes cereal for me not the kids !,
cooler with drinks and h2o and several road flares (makes fires
fast) and my 2m/440 mobile kenwood and ht.

also have old cb from 1975 and it works.

Yes, indeed. Any road trip into the western half of the US (New Mexico
and points west) this time of year will see me do these:

o Move the HF rig into the van, as well as the FM dual-bander;
o Install the HF antenna mount on the van;
o Carry a straight key and antennas for 40, 20, and 10 meters;
o Carry both 2m HTs, spare batteries, and battery chargers for them;
o Load up with food, water, cloth blankets, flares, kitty litter,
reflective Mylar blankets[1], 2 shovels, and flashlights; and
o Give _very_ serious thought to what _else_ I should carry.

We've got to drive from OKC and back over this weekend, and that's how
I'll load up the van today, even though the forecast is for good wx.
I've been called an over-cautious fuddy-duddy because I think like
that, and I'm still alive because I think like that.

Even on well-traveled roads, you can get into Too Much Trouble in bad
weather; back roads in untraveled country are, as we've just seen, far
more dangerous.

Garrison Keillor said it very well indeed:

"Life is complicated, but winter narrows it down to a
few simple problems: heat, food, shelter, plumbing.
And it focuses you in wonderful ways. You don't have
to search for your personal identity in winter; winter
gives it to you. You are prey in winter; nature is
making a serious attempt to kill you."

[1] Life-savers when it's _cold_.

--
Mike Andrews, W5EGO

Tired old sysadmin

Roger that! I have a Yaesu FT-857 in my truck so I have HF through 440
and antennas for all bands. I'd be screaming my lungs out on 40M or 20M
or whatever band I could raise somebody on!

Scott
N0EDV

Lois wrote:

we never travel in that type of area but
when we do travel by car, got plenty of food,
several boxes cereal for me not the kids !,
cooler with drinks and h2o and several
road flares (makes fires fast) and my 2m/440 mobile kenwood
and ht.

also have old cb from 1975 and it works.


Scott wrote:

I agree...here in the Northern U.S. where we (usually) get plenty of
snow and ice, we were taught to stay with the vehicle (and it's always a
good idea to have an emergency supply of food and water in the car,
especially in the winter months). In the case of an air search and
rescue, it's far easier to spot a car on the ground (which is usually
very near to a road) rather than spot a person in the woods...

Scott wrote in
:

I agree...here in the Northern U.S. where we (usually) get plenty of
snow and ice, we were taught to stay with the vehicle (and it's always
a good idea to have an emergency supply of food and water in the car,
especially in the winter months). In the case of an air search and
rescue, it's far easier to spot a car on the ground (which is usually
very near to a road) rather than spot a person in the woods...

Yep...if you're going to do anything, get out and make sure the car is
not covered by snow. And if you have enough blankets/sleeping bags, then
turn off the car's electricity unless you hear a chopper in the dark.
Then flash the lights.

But people do the craziest things. I've heard of people abandoning a
boat just because it lost power, only to drown. The Coast Guard
recovered the boat intact.

And one time in Nova Scotia, we went searching for a couple that had gone
missing after hiking into the woods opposite the airport. We found them
OK, but they were lost, they said, despite the fact that they were under
the approach to the main runway and at least 4 large jets an hour flew
over them!




--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667

wonder if he used the cell phone(s) for a few min
at the top of every hour as a beacon to help recsue
try to loacte him by special gear ?



BakersT wrote:

In article ,
notbob wrote:

[snip]
This worries me because it highlights the shortcomings of all this new
high tech gimcrackery. As I understand it, even satellite cellphones
require a service provider with a nearby uplink antenna. So, this
brings up my question, as a non ham:

How long do you think it would have taken James, or anyone in that
situation, to make contact with outside help and get him and his
family out of there if he'd had something like a basic QRP tranceiver
and antenna and knew how to use it?

Any thoughts you may have on this issue would be appreciated.

Well, the _right_ high tech gimcrackery (a "personnel locator beacon",
e.g. http://www.landfallnavigation.com/spwff1.html) would almost
certainly have been effective. And I'm sorry for his family's loss, and
can appreciate that Mr. Kim must have felt that taking action was
necessary to save his wife and children, but had he _stayed_put_ he'd be
alive today.