I changed the header subject to better reflect the discussion.

"JB" wrote:

You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

That's probably true.

That's been motivating nearly everything they have done since the 70's.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.

now even the Extra Class is code free.

As is the free memorization EC exam. No real electronic knowledge
required to pass.

I still have a manual typewriter to...
I still have a VCR because...
I even use CW on VHF and...

Typewriters, VCRs and CW are all obsolete by todays
technical standards. Some still use them because like
you and I they like to. That doesn't make them less old
technology. (Think horse/buggy analogy)

OK WHICH DIGITAL do you use.

Head copy.

how are you going to make the contact that is gone in 60 seconds

I'm not. I prefer CW ragchewing. Different strokes...

Don't tell me it's obsolete if you don't know anything about it.

Got my Novice in 57. Been doing CW ever since. But only as a hobby since
it's obsolete and not good for much else...

AJ Lake writes:
You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.


So, I'm a young whippersnapper (42 y/o ... got my Tech+ ticket in
1988): Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was, and with as little
slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU (or as one 1x2 in the
first club I was in said: Ruined the service).

--XE2/N1GAK

"Lawrence Statton" wrote in message
...
AJ Lake writes:
You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.


So, I'm a young whippersnapper (42 y/o ... got my Tech+ ticket in
1988): Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was, and with as little
slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU (or as one 1x2 in the
first club I was in said: Ruined the service).

--XE2/N1GAK

As I remember it...
I am not sure what the ARRL had to do with events previous to 73 and some of
the chronology from memory.

The 11 meter ham band was taken away to make the Citizens Band in 58? It
didn't turn out anything like the FCC expected. Previously there were fewer
ham license classes and everyone was on the same page. Also privileges were
taken away from the highest class to make a higher ones. Ticked off a lot
of Hams to lose.

The Technician License split ham radio into two factions by offering a
license class that had little incentive to upgrade and actually made it much
more difficult to, by limiting the opportunities for on-the-air training.
People who took the Novice ticket were upgraded to General in less than 2
years or never got around to get on the air and let it lapse. Hams (in my
area anyway) were expected to build something as a right of passage.
Building a code practice oscillator would get you a pat on the back from
everyone and you were in with the simplest project there was. I built that
and the power supplies for my mil surplus rigs. Some guys built a whole
Novice station. Techs at that time were expected to retune or modify a rig
or some project as well but would go straight to CB like intercom operations
not conducive to learning the HF skills for upgrade. In my day we were
aware of a difference but we were all brother hams then. I had Elmers that
were Techs and beyond. Most all were technically inclined enough to have
built something. People were generally civilized and knew that we were all
on the same team. If there was irritation between individuals, and there
were oddballs, it was downplayed for the good of amateur radio, because it
was a small world and people were listening. And you would run into each
other again and again, so no sense carrying a grudge.

That was the reality of it, whatever your point of view of how it should
have been.

In the late 70's there was a push by ARRL to get CBers interested, and over
the counter 2 meter radios were first becoming available.

ARRL didn't seem to understand that CB was a different service with a
different mindset and many were already set in their ways. They seemed to
be willing to get people to hang outside of RS stores and lure CBers under
false pretenses about amateur radio in order to pump up the license roles
and subscriptions to QST. Wayne Green was one of the ticked off ones and
started 73 magazine to rag about the ARRL and QST. ARRL also convinced the
FCC (easily) to set up the volunteer examiner program. Novice exams were
already given by volunteer Extras. FCC wanted to lighten their work load
since Ham testing and licensing was taking up most of a day at the field
offices.

License renewals were then made easier and for longer. ARRL liked it
because the rolls didn't drop out so fast and FCC didn't have to bother as
often.

The volunteer examiner program gave seminars to get people licensed but
because of the accellerated pace, people got licensed before they got a
chance to learn the realities of getting on the air and keeping a station up
and meeting the people. Some people would find it not their cup of tea and
leave but their license was now good for 10 years pumping up the rolls.

The no-code Tech license 83? further divided amateurs and even further
sidetracked Techs from upgrading. Lead time for getting a ticket was
shortened from the 2 to 6 months or so to learn the code to as little as 6
weeks, then 2 weeks as the process refined. It was notable that in the
80s, there were many who learned the code anyway and upgraded but the whole
thing by and large tended to split Ham Radio into those who upgraded and
those who couldn't very well.and were often frustrated. Many would tell
themselves they just weren't interested and resented the others. Way too
sad. I finally came to grips with the idea that they should do away with
the Tech class license at all costs, even getting rid of code testing for
the General to do it, just so we could mend the split. I was stunned when
they dropped the code requirement for Extra though. I really haven't kept
track of all the current structure since I got my Extra in 93.

In any case, the "incentive" licensing structure was anything but incentive.
So much for good intentions. ARRL has done a lot of good things but some
major screwups too. Support them but keep an eye on them and keep them
straightened out.

JB wrote:

snip

The Technician License split ham radio into two factions by offering a
license class that had little incentive to upgrade and actually made it much
more difficult to, by limiting the opportunities for on-the-air training.
People who took the Novice ticket were upgraded to General in less than 2
years or never got around to get on the air and let it lapse. Hams (in my
area anyway) were expected to build something as a right of passage.
Building a code practice oscillator would get you a pat on the back from
everyone and you were in with the simplest project there was. I built that
and the power supplies for my mil surplus rigs. Some guys built a whole
Novice station. Techs at that time were expected to retune or modify a rig
or some project as well but would go straight to CB like intercom operations
not conducive to learning the HF skills for upgrade.

Hmmm, first time I've read such an opinion regarding original Techs; in my
experience, Techs concentrated on building, experimenting and exploiting
VHF, UHF and above and had less inherent interest in HF. Some were just
unable to muster higher CW wpm for other tickets.

In my day we were aware of a difference but we were all brother hams then.
I had Elmers that were Techs and beyond.

Perhaps you are referring to later model Techs; the term 'Elmer' didn't exist
during the day to which I refer.

Michael

"msg" wrote in message
...
JB wrote:

snip

The Technician License split ham radio into two factions by offering a
license class that had little incentive to upgrade and actually made it
much
more difficult to, by limiting the opportunities for on-the-air
training.
People who took the Novice ticket were upgraded to General in less than
2
years or never got around to get on the air and let it lapse. Hams (in
my
area anyway) were expected to build something as a right of passage.
Building a code practice oscillator would get you a pat on the back from
everyone and you were in with the simplest project there was. I built
that
and the power supplies for my mil surplus rigs. Some guys built a whole
Novice station. Techs at that time were expected to retune or modify a
rig
or some project as well but would go straight to CB like intercom
operations
not conducive to learning the HF skills for upgrade.

Hmmm, first time I've read such an opinion regarding original Techs; in my
experience, Techs concentrated on building, experimenting and exploiting
VHF, UHF and above and had less inherent interest in HF. Some were just
unable to muster higher CW wpm for other tickets.

In my day we were aware of a difference but we were all brother hams
then.
I had Elmers that were Techs and beyond.

Perhaps you are referring to later model Techs; the term 'Elmer' didn't
exist
during the day to which I refer.

Michael

Of course there were variations in your experience depending on the crowd
you fell in with. To this day, the club experience tends to be limiting for
those who want to explore in depth, the great variety of interests that ham
radio has to offer. There are in fact many, many specialties and
sub-interests within amateur radio. If you try to list what they are, you
keep adding to the list indefinitely. Clubs tend to promote the entry and
political interests and get preoccupied there. If people in a club are
ragging about lack of Elmers or Technological interest in ham radio, it is
because the club itself has become stagnant with a lack of imagination, like
the teenager who sits around watching TV and complaining about being bored.
Boring people actually bore themselves. In my experience, most hams don't
show up at the local ham club because they have other Ham Radio interests.

Your Experience (above, Techs vs. HF) is proof of what comes of
promoting a division within ham radio. Politics should have learned by now
that the 2 party system has become the same kind of disaster. The Electoral
system used to have several parties and candidates and the winner became
President and runner-up was Vice-President, regardless of political party.
Probably more aggravation for the cabinet, but more of a stabilizing
influence on our nation. Our current system has actually promoted a rift in
America that gets farther apart as we go our separate ways in order to avoid
drowning in the middle. Eventually this could lead to another Civil War but
I digress.

An Elmer was everyone who was willing to share what they had learned. The
term and the people were there long before I decided to be a ham, perhaps
pre-war QST. The first thing I learned was that with so many sub-interests,
the only way I could hope to experience it all was vicariously. By visiting
the garages and hamshacks to see what other people had done. Antenna
experimenters, transmission line specialists who conversed with Smith
Charts. Teletype experimenters who were cobbling home made digital
controllers to their model 28s, that would become the home computer. People
who did various mods and projects involving existing equipment, People who
built their own equipment. Even one poor kid in High School who built a
full QRP station onto his bicycle from transistor radio parts and other
junk. This guy had a bit of an inferiority complex, because when he would
show people the construction and circuit designs (often modular with junk
boards modified and cabled together in a re-used cabinet) they would become
very interested and of course the "why did you do it this way" question
would always set him off. Some would joke him over that. I had to remind
him often to put away his anguish and realize they were in fact impressed by
his accomplishments and what was happening was in fact a by product of their
curiosity and envy. Although I was an Advanced and He was a Novice, it
didn't change the fact that we were both Elmers in our own right. We become
Elmers to each other as long as we don't pout and cry over normal human
relations.

I realize that pouting and crying over normal human relations has become
some sort of fashionable thing lately. I don't think it is a good thing.
Maybe it is from people being told by their Psychiatrist (like Cops, depend
on repeat business) that everything will be OK if they let their emotions
take control, and that it is perfectly normal to throw tantrums or hump
people's leg in public. Makes good press though.

On Sep 8, 10:58*pm, "JB" wrote:
"Lawrence Statton" wrote in message
...

AJ Lake writes:
You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

Not any more. But in the past it was very different.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.

Which was not really an ARRL idea - nor a new one in the 1960s.

I am not sure what the ARRL had to do with events previous to 73 and some of
the chronology from memory.

The 11 meter ham band was taken away to make the Citizens Band in 58? * It
didn't turn out anything like the FCC expected.

Yup. Actually FCC had created UHF cb where FRS/GMRS is now a decade
earlier, but 1950s technology was such that a good UHF radio was big,
heavy and expensive. So they reallocated 11 meters (which wasn't a ham
band by treaty) because decent sets would be a lot cheaper to make.
FCC never imagined that so many people would just ignore the rules.

*Previously there were fewer
ham license classes and everyone was on the same page. Also privileges were
taken away from the highest class to make a higher ones. *Ticked off a lot
of Hams to lose.

Before 1951 there were three license classes, A, B and C. The 1951
restructuring renamed them to Advanced, General and Conditional, and
added the Novice, Technician, and Extra. That 1951 restructuring was
not an ARRL idea, btw.

The Technician License split ham radio into two factions by offering a
license class that had little incentive to upgrade and actually made it much
more difficult to, by limiting the opportunities for on-the-air training.
People who took the Novice ticket were upgraded to General in less than 2
years or never got around to get on the air and let it lapse.

There were always lots of factions. There were the 'phone folks and
the CW bunch, the traffic handlers and the DXers, the homebrewers, kit
builders and factory-made groups, the mobileers, the VHF/UHFers, the
ragchewers, etc. Few of the divisions you see today are new.

*Hams (in my
area anyway) were expected to build something as a right of passage.
Building a code practice oscillator would get you a pat on the back from
everyone and you were in with the simplest project there was. *I built that
and the power supplies for my mil surplus rigs. *Some guys built a whole
Novice station.

Some folks still do. Google my call, for example...

*Techs at that time were expected to retune or modify a rig
or some project as well but would go straight to CB like intercom operations
not conducive to learning the HF skills for upgrade.

I think the real problem was that there wasn't much casual CW
operation on VHF, and many low-cost VHF rigs wouldn't even do CW.

*In my day we were
aware of a difference but we were all brother hams then. *I had Elmers that
were Techs and beyond. *Most all were technically inclined enough to have
built something. *People were generally civilized and knew that we were all
on the same team. *If there was irritation between individuals, and there
were oddballs, it was downplayed for the good of amateur radio, because it
was a small world and people were listening. *And you would run into each
other again and again, so no sense carrying a grudge.

Agreed! There were other forces at work, too. For one thing, equipment
was expensive compared to today and you needed to know something just
to tune it up and get on the air. For another, getting a license
required that you invest some time and effort into learning code and
theory.

The FCC was also a respected and almost feared entity before the cb
boom. Hams knew FCC was listening, and would find them if they
misbehaved.

In the late 70's there was a push by ARRL to get CBers interested, and over
the counter 2 meter radios were first becoming available.

I don't recall that at all. ARRL pushed repeaters and FM because they
were new technology, for hams anyway, and were already popular with
hams in some parts of the country.

ARRL didn't seem to understand that CB was a different service with a
different mindset and many were already set in their ways. * They seemed to
be willing to get people to hang outside of RS stores and lure CBers under
false pretenses about amateur radio in order to pump up the license roles
and subscriptions to QST.

I don't recall that at all.

* Wayne Green was one of the ticked off ones and
started 73 magazine to rag about the ARRL and QST.

Wayne Green was a lifelong gadfly. He's still around, btw. Says the
Apollo moon landings were faked, among other things.

*ARRL also convinced the
FCC (easily) to set up the volunteer examiner program.

Nope, not true. FCC did that in the early 1980s to reduce their
workload. Their funding wasn't keeping up with their costs and they
had to reduce costs somehow. ARRL had no choice.

*Novice exams were
already given by volunteer Extras.

Actually a General or Advanced could give Novice exams.

*FCC wanted to lighten their work load
since Ham testing and licensing was taking up most of a day at the field
offices.

The office in Philly where I took my tests was busy three days a week
with exams.

License renewals were then made easier and for longer. *ARRL liked it
because the rolls didn't drop out so fast and FCC didn't have to bother as
often.

It was FCC's idea. Less administrative work.

The volunteer examiner program gave seminars to get people licensed but
because of the accellerated pace, *people got licensed before they got a
chance to learn the realities of getting on the air and keeping a station up
and meeting the people. *Some people would find it not their cup of tea and
leave but their license was now good for 10 years pumping up the rolls.

Yup.

The no-code Tech license 83? further divided amateurs and even further
sidetracked Techs from upgrading.

1991, not 1983. Don't forget code waivers, created in 1990 as a favor
of then-president Bush to ham who was also a King.

*Lead time for getting a ticket was
shortened from the 2 to 6 months or so to learn the code to as little as 6
weeks, then 2 weeks as the process refined. * It was notable that in the
80s, there were many who learned the code anyway and upgraded but the whole
thing by and large tended to split Ham Radio into those who upgraded and
those who couldn't very well.and were often frustrated.

There were also folks who got into ham radio back then to use it as a
personal communications
system without all the headaches of cb. Sometimes whole families got
licensed and got HTs just to keep in touch. We had a lot of them in
the 80s and 90s. Cell phones killed that.

*Many would tell
themselves they just weren't interested and resented the others. *Way too
sad. *I finally came to grips with the idea that they should do away with
the Tech class license at all costs, even getting rid of code testing for
the General to do it, just so we could mend the split. * I was stunned when
they dropped the code requirement for Extra though. *I really haven't kept
track of all the current structure since I got my Extra in 93.

The changes have been a little here and a little there. It was FCC,
not ARRL, who has pushed for reduced requirements since the late
1970s.

In any case, the "incentive" licensing structure was anything but incentive.
So much for good intentions.

Consider this, though:

In 1951 there were about 100,000 US hams.

By 1962 or so that number had grown to about 250,000.

But then the growth slowed to a trickle and by 1969 there were only a
few more than there were in 1962.

Some said the incentive licensing changes would kill off ham radio,
but instead the numbers grew all through the 1970s and 1980s and into
the 1990s. Not just Techs but Generals and above too.

btw, I got my Novice in 1967 (age 13), Advanced in 1968 (age 14) and
Extra in 1970 (age 16). I didn't think any of the tests were very
hard. Would have gotten the Extra sooner but in those days you needed
2 years experience as a General or Advanced just to try the Extra
test.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Lawrence Statton wrote:

Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was,

Shamelessly copied from: http://ham-shack.com/history.html. Check here for
the history before and after the event.

"1967-The FCC announced the new Incentive Licensing rules: over the next 2
years, General & Conditional operators would lose 50% of the 75-15 meter
phone bands, the "First Class" idea was dropped, the Advanced Class was
reopened to new applicants, Extra & Advanced Class operators get exclusive
subbands on 80-15 and 6 meters, the Novice license term is doubled to two
years, but Novices lose their 2 meter phone privileges, the FCC restates the
"Technicians are experimenters, not communicators" policy, and states that
the next license step for Novices is the General, not Technician, class."

and with as little slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU

That SNAFU of course is a slant by those of us who lost privileges in the
new licensing system. I was a General at the time. I actually had to buy a
Bash book to get them back...

"AJ Lake" wrote in message
...
Lawrence Statton wrote:

Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was,

Shamelessly copied from: http://ham-shack.com/history.html. Check here for
the history before and after the event.

"1967-The FCC announced the new Incentive Licensing rules: over the next 2
years, General & Conditional operators would lose 50% of the 75-15 meter
phone bands, the "First Class" idea was dropped, the Advanced Class was
reopened to new applicants, Extra & Advanced Class operators get exclusive
subbands on 80-15 and 6 meters, the Novice license term is doubled to two
years, but Novices lose their 2 meter phone privileges, the FCC restates
the
"Technicians are experimenters, not communicators" policy, and states that
the next license step for Novices is the General, not Technician, class."

and with as little slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU

That SNAFU of course is a slant by those of us who lost privileges in the
new licensing system. I was a General at the time. I actually had to buy
a
Bash book to get them back...

So it was FCC after all that formed the opinion. Sounds like a conspiracy
theory to keep us preoccupied with infighting.

On Sep 8, 7:51*pm, Lawrence Statton wrote:
AJ Lake writes:
You need to understand that the FCC really doesn't want to be
bothered with Ham Radio at all.

I think that the ARRL had more to do with the snafu's of that era. For
example incentive licensing.

So, I'm a young whippersnapper (42 y/o ... got my Tech+ ticket in
1988): *Can someone, without adding TOO much editorial slant, explain
what the 1970s push to incentive licensing was, and with as little
slant as possible explain why it was a SNAFU (or as one 1x2 in the
first club I was in said: *Ruined the service).

Look in the letters section of a 50's QST, there's rants and raves
from both sides on incentive licensing.

Look in the letters section of a 60's QST, there's rants and raves
from both sides on incentive licensing.

The controversy in the 70's was the Technician license, a ticket that
required no code, as a way to get some CB'ers to take notice. I myself
came to ham radio in the 70's but had no interest in anything having
to do with Technician privileges. I know many other hams who did come
in that way in the 70's, 80's, etc.

Tim N3QE

Tim Shoppa wrote:

The controversy in the 70's was the Technician license, a ticket that
required no code,

Interestingly in the 50s the Technician (and Novice) was given
by mail. And any ham friend could give you the code test.
Anyone else could proctor your exam and certify that you
were honest. However I'm sure it won't surprise you to learn
that there were many Techs who never took a code
test and had open book exams.

I always wondered why if the Tech was an experimenters
license as the FCC claimed it was, why they required a code
test.

The Tech was a very popular license, especially in the
late 50s when we had the best sun spot peak on
record. I had a modest Globe Scout 680 with about
20W out on 6 meters to a 5 element Taco beam
up about 30' , AM of course. The Rx was a war surplus
BC455 (7$ brand new mail order) and an International
Crystal 6 meter converter. The Tx was crystal controlled
so you called CQ and then tuned the lower band for
an answer. The band was open stateside every day
and my state count on 6M was in the 40s before
I got my General and moved to 10M which was even
better. DX openings were often and my country count
was in the 50s. That was indeed a fun time...