If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

On Apr 20, 9:50*am, Tim Shoppa wrote:
A terminology question I suppose about the derivation of the term
"Superheterodyne" more than anything else:

Does the "Super" actually mean anything? Is there a Subheterodyne?

Traditionally superhets mix a higher radio frequency down to a lower
IF frequency, but certainly in the past few decades radios with IF's
above the RF frequency have become very common in broadband
applications, and those are still called superhets, not subhets :-).

Google turns up a couple hits on subheterodyne but other than one that
might mean "IF higher in frequency than RF" I don't recognize what
they mean..

I suspect that "Super" was more a marketing term than anything
else :-).

Tim N3QE

I thought it was a contraction of "supersonic heterodyne".

At that time receivers were TRF and in many cases used reaction (i.e.
controlled positive feedback) to improve selectivity and gain. This
could be exploited to receive CW signals by advancing to the point of
feedback resulting in an audible heterodyne (whistle) at the output
whwn tuned close to a signal.

The supersonic heterodyne performed in a similar way but was
intentionally above audible range (i.e. supersonic) for amplification
at the intermediate frequency.

kevin

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

Bert Hyman wrote:

Tim Shoppa wrote:

A terminology question I suppose about the derivation of the term
"Superheterodyne" more than anything else:

Does the "Super" actually mean anything?

My recollection is that Armstrong used the term "supersonic heterodyne"
to note the fact that the beat frequency between the signal and LO
was "supersonic."

Ultrasonic of course, so it's been the wrong name all along.

Graham

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

Tim Shoppa wrote:

John Larkin wrote:
Tim Shoppa wrote:
A terminology question I suppose about the derivation of the term
"Superheterodyne" more than anything else:

Does the "Super" actually mean anything? Is there a Subheterodyne?

Traditionally superhets mix a higher radio frequency down to a lower
IF frequency, but certainly in the past few decades radios with IF's
above the RF frequency have become very common in broadband
applications, and those are still called superhets, not subhets :-).

Google turns up a couple hits on subheterodyne but other than one that
might mean "IF higher in frequency than RF" I don't recognize what
they mean..

I suspect that "Super" was more a marketing term than anything
else :-).

Tim N3QE

Supersonic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheterodyne_receiver

I saw that in Wikipedia too. I didn't believe it, it doesn't make
sense. Why not just call all radio frequencies and IF frequencies
above 20kHz "supersonic"? Then all radios (*) are supersonic, and
we're back to super meaning nothing at all.

Supersonic today means travelling faster than the speed of sound. The correct
word now would be ultrasonic.

So maybe they should be recalled ultraheterodyne receivers.

Graham

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

"Eeysore the ****wit "
Tim Shoppa the ASD ****ed ****head "

A terminology question I suppose about the derivation of the term
"Superheterodyne" more than anything else:

Does the "Super" actually mean anything?

My recollection is that Armstrong used the term "supersonic heterodyne"
to note the fact that the beat frequency between the signal and LO
was "supersonic."

Ultrasonic of course,


** There is no "of course" about it".

so it's been the wrong name all along.


** Pedantic, insane ********.



...... Phil

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

"Eeysore the ****ing LIAR "

Supersonic today means travelling faster than the speed of sound.


** Not when the context is frequency - you ****ing MORON.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/supersonic



....... Phil

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

"John Nagle the Flatulent Fool"


The IF frequency is above the signal frequency, hence the "super"
prefix.


** Nagle just did another smelly fart.

Peeeeeeuuueeee



..... Phil

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

On Apr 20, 5:50*pm, Tim Shoppa wrote:
A terminology question I suppose about the derivation of the term
"Superheterodyne" more than anything else:

Does the "Super" actually mean anything? Is there a Subheterodyne?

Traditionally superhets mix a higher radio frequency down to a lower
IF frequency, but certainly in the past few decades radios with IF's
above the RF frequency have become very common in broadband
applications, and those are still called superhets, not subhets :-).

Google turns up a couple hits on subheterodyne but other than one that
might mean "IF higher in frequency than RF" I don't recognize what
they mean..

I suspect that "Super" was more a marketing term than anything
else :-).

Tim N3QE

I think that the way to answer a question like this is to try to find
written material which originated as close as possible in time to the
introduction of the term in question. Wikki entries should give
references to original material, but of course those are not always
easy for everyone to find, and to study.

The best that I can do in the way of original references with the
books on my shelves is to quote from the 'Admiralty Handbook of
Wireless Telegraphy 1931', HMSO, London, 1932. On page 721 is written
- '... This use of amplification at a frequency intermediate between
that of the incoming signal and an audible frequency gives this
circuit its name of super-heterodyne, or supersonic heterodyne
receiver'.

The discussion goes on to describe an Admiralty receiver having an IF
frequency of 30kHz, which is just what you would expect a supersonic
frequency to be. To my mind this settles the question. Andy G4OEP

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

Tim Shoppa
A terminology question I suppose about the derivation of the term
"Superheterodyne" more than anything else:

I think that the way to answer a question like this is to try to find
written material which originated as close as possible in time to the
introduction of the term in question. Wikki entries should give
references to original material, but of course those are not always
easy for everyone to find, and to study.


** All one had to do was follow up on the "external links" at the end of
the superhet Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheterodyne_receiver

the very first one of which is:

http://antiqueradios.com/superhet/

Then go to footnote #11:

-----------------------------------------------------

" Armstrong, "A New System of Short Wave Amplification," Proc. I.R.E. 9
(Feb. 1921), pp. 3-27. QST 3 (Feb. 1920), pp.5-9, 13.
This paper uses the term superaudible heterodyne, from which superheterodyne
is derived. The British tended to use supersonic. Incidentally, the first
use of the word superheterodyne that I have seen, is in QST for March 1921
(p.41) but evidently from the context it was in common use by then. "

------------------------------------------------------

Note the reference to " superaudible heterodyne " is from 1921 and Armstrong
himself !!

Also it explains how the Poms ( Armstrong was an American) liked to use
"supersonic" in relation to those frequencies above the audible range.


The best that I can do in the way of original references with the
books on my shelves is to quote from the 'Admiralty Handbook of
Wireless Telegraphy 1931', HMSO, London, 1932. On page 721 is written
- '... This use of amplification at a frequency intermediate between
that of the incoming signal and an audible frequency gives this
circuit its name of super-heterodyne, or supersonic heterodyne
receiver'.


** Fine, but that book is ten years later and has no direct connection to
Armstrong's invention.


The discussion goes on to describe an Admiralty receiver having an IF
frequency of 30kHz, which is just what you would expect a supersonic
frequency to be. To my mind this settles the question.


** The Q was settled by the first couple of replies Shoppa got here -
but he simply had no interest in having one of his mad, pet theories proved
wrong so easily.

Shoppa was trolling as usual and no simple facts were not gonna spoil his
puerile mischief.



...... Phil

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

mikea wrote:
[Philthy snipped]

Killfile, Phil. Phil, killfile.

Hi Mike, nice to see you here!

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

If Superheterodyne, why not Subheterodyne?
 

Phil Allison wrote:
"Eeysore the ****ing LIAR "

Supersonic today means travelling faster than the speed of sound.


** Not when the context is frequency - you ****ing MORON.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/supersonic



....... Phil


=============================================
Phil ,It will be a relief to all (civilised) users of this NG ,if you
would discharge your life's frustrations onto another more appropriate
NG. It is clear ,to me at least ,that you need help.

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH