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"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
On May 31, 10:06*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 30 May 2009 17:28:18 -0700, Usual Suspect wrote: WInegard makes an antenna-in-a-box, the SS-1000 which lists ~4 db gain over the UHF TV range: http://tinyurl.com/nqpzm2 4dB isn't very much gain. *Compare this with some other available antennas: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html Unfortunately, the SS-1000 and SS-1000 are not listed. Sure it is but it's called 'Square Shooter' Depending on the distance between your apartment and the antenna location, the +4dB antenna gain may not be sufficient to compensate for the coax loss. *Are you in a weak signal or strong signal area? Is an antenna amplifier justified? * If so, you might need 3 amplifiers for your 3 different directions. As I said, I use it 35 miles out from Mt Wilson (Los Angeles) and have it split 4 ways - no preamps. I do have Line Of Sight (just barely) Also, a 4dB gain antenna will not have a very directional antenna pattern or be particularly directional. *My guess(tm) is perhaps 120 degrees wide. *There probably won't be much difference in signal strength if your 3 directions are within the beam width. You're right, it isn't very directional but it has a reasonable front- to-back ratio. I must say at the outset that I am hesitant to buy an antenna based on its form-factor, but I'm forced by the local code to not display bare- element type antennae on the mast. I don't like getting into 'contests' with the HOAs if I can avoid it. After all, we have to live with them. As others have mentioned, this is mostly incorrect. *The problem is in the interpretation of the word "unreasonable", which might be interpreted in a variety of ways. *Without details on your situation, I can't comment on this. I do like the panel style for the reason that I can arrange 3 around a common mast, aimed at remote cities, and join the outputs for increased coverage. Mast? *Welcome to "unreasonable". *The FCC 47.1.4000 clause that limits antenna installation has nothing to say about the supporting structure. *While the HOA may not be able to prevent you from installing an antenna, they most certainly will have something to say about the design and construction of the supporting structure. *They may also demand that it be installed by a licensed and insured installer to protect themselves against subsequent litigation. *I know you don't want to hear about all this, but methinks you should at least be warned before blundering onward. Has anyone experience with the SS-1000? Or can recommend a similar style antenna? No recommendations. *Antennas are sized and designed to solve specific problems. *The design required in a strong signal area is quite different from one in a weak signal area, in an urban canyon, for an indoor installation, or if it is intended to be disguised or minimalized. *It's also important to know the lowest VHF frequency or channel that the antenna is expected to operate as this has a huge effect on the physical size of the antenna. *Without a clue as to your situation, it's impossible to offer an endorsement or alternative. *If you find it inconvenient to disclose such details, I suggest you use: http://www.antennaweb.org to optimize your selection and proposed installation. -- Jeff Liebermann * * All I can say is I've been using Winegard antennas since 1974 and have found them to be well built good performers and have never been disappointed with their products. Also, any friends who took my advice were never disappointed with either the antannas OR me. G² |
"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
Yes, but the original poster may not have such an ideal location.
TV Fool azimuth plot: http://i44.tinypic.com/2a4wghx.jpg Was considering 3 antennae with wide reception angles pointed generally at 45, 140, 310 deg. Only 3 are LOS (15, 18, 33) Pretty flat terrain, no tall structures nearby . Top of the mast: 14 ft. agl. Thanks. -- Al, the usual |
"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
On May 31, 11:52*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 31 May 2009 11:16:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On May 31, 10:06*am, Jeff Liebermann wrote: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html Unfortunately, the SS-1000 and SS-1000 are not listed. Sure it is but it's called 'Square Shooter' Sorry, typo error. *I mean't the SS-1000 and SS-2000 (amplified). *It does list the "Sharp Shooter" which is a different indoor antenna. What's inside the SS-1000 and some really weird "gain" tests: http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages/squareshot.htm It's antenna 'M', the Square Shooter As I said, I use it 35 miles out from Mt Wilson (Los Angeles) and have it split 4 ways - no preamps. I do have Line Of Sight (just barely) Yes, but the original poster may not have such an ideal location. And that is why I point out my line of sight condidtion at 35 miles Also, bad guess on the beamwidth. *It's 54 (channel 69) to 95 (channel 7) degrees. *Sorry. You're right, it isn't very directional but it has a reasonable front- to-back ratio. It varies with frequency. *It's only 2.6dB at channel 10. *See specs below. I don't expect it to be usable where I'm at for channels 7,9,11 and 13. I'll try it and if / when it fails, I'll tie in the VHF of the Winegard in the garage eaves. Hopefully its VHF performance will make the grade under the roof 'chaff'. If the wife would put up with the all channel garage antenna on the roof, it would certainly be fine BUT she doesn't want to look at it, hence the SS-1000 at least for the UHF. All I can say is I've been using Winegard antennas since 1974 and have found them to be well built good performers and have never been disappointed with their products. Also, any friends who took my advice were never disappointed with either the antannas OR me. I try to avoid shopping by brand. *Even the best manufacturers have their lemons and losers. *Right now, the advertising trend is to replace your existing antenna with an HD or Digital TV antenna, whatever that means. *Also, to make it look like a DBS dish, which is generally accepted by most HOA. Specs and details: * http://www.winegarddirect.com/pdf/spec_ss1000-ss2000.pdf http://www.winegarddirect.com/squareshooter-ss1000-ss2000/winegard-sq... http://www.winegarddirect.com/viewitem~p~ss-1000~d~Winegard-SS1000-Sq... I don't see much to complain about in the design and construction of this antenna. *However, whether it's suitable for the OP's location and application is unknown. -- Jeff Liebermann * * You won't find any new Sony at our house but you will find 4 Gigabyte motherboards with AMD processors, 3 old Technics receivers, 8 Advent speakers, Canon cameras and a lot of who knows what. When one of the brands falls short I'll re-evaluate but for now I'm happy. G² |
"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
raypsi wrote in news:eedf031f-c023-4a15-abea-
: Hey OM This si just a rehash of another post awhile back in this here forum. But DTV will never go away so: I seen one on youtube, there are a tonne of them, but this, to the best of my recollection, one used: 1pc 1x2 2ft long board 5 steel wire coat hangers dry wall screws and a 75 ohm to 300 ohm balun to make a 4 bay bowtie antenna That one is all over the internet. It works OK, but you would get better results with copper wire, not steel coat hangers. It also looks ugly. For another idea, do a google for a Hoverman style antenna. Then there is mine... http://mysite.verizon.net/g_reeder/C...V_antenna.html |
"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
On Sun, 31 May 2009 14:04:50 -0700, Usual Suspect
wrote: Yes, but the original poster may not have such an ideal location. TV Fool azimuth plot: http://i44.tinypic.com/2a4wghx.jpg Nice plot. Kinda looks like you'll need a rotator. The -3dB beamwidth varies from 54 to 95 degrees. At best, 3 antennas will cover 3*95 = 285 degrees. At worst, 3*54 = 162 degrees. Was considering 3 antennae with wide reception angles pointed generally at 45, 140, 310 deg. Only 3 are LOS (15, 18, 33) What are the ranges and approximate signal strengths? Looks like 18 and 33 can be covered with one antenna pointed at about 250 degrees. A second antenna at 45 degrees *MIGHT* catch the largest number of channels. However, there's no optimum location for a 3rd antenna to catch all the remaining stations. You'll probably have to pick and choose among the relatively strong ones and take what you can get. With a UHF only antenna, stations 2-13 are problematic (or impossible). If you're going to run multiple antennas, you'll probably need an antenna switch, 3 tower mounted amplifiers, and 3 coax cable runs. If you try to combine then with a power splitter, you'll get interaction between antennas and an ugly and unpredictable pattern. With an indoor antenna of any sorts, which ones can you receive (including the weak ones)? With only 4dBi of antenna gain, I don't think you'll be able to dig the ones you can't receive out of the noise. Pretty flat terrain, no tall structures nearby . Top of the mast: 14 ft. agl. They let you have a 14 ft mast and you're worried about the antenna police? Might as well go for broke. Install a real yagi antenna, tower mounted amplifier, and rotator. For the tower amp, I recommend a Channel Master 7777. http://www.channelmasterintl.com/amplifiers.html For an antenna, whatever you can find. The bigger and uglier the anenna, the better it works. See specs at: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html If you're not sure, buy just one antenna, hang it out the window on a broom stick, and see what it does. If you're close, continue with your proposed ideas. If it looks hopeless, give up before you burn any more money. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
Rich Griffiths wrote:
Check out: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html ... In this ruling, the FCC pre-empted not only state and local government regulations but HOA CCR's and landlords' restrictions on renters. This came about because the broadcasters have a strong lobby, and they didn't want widespread limitations on receiving their over-the-air or satellite transmissions. I would suggest it came about because cable operators have a strong lobby and wanted to be deregulated. The FCC was reluctant to do so as long as many apartment- and condo-dwellers had no choice but to subscribe to cable. By ensuring these people have access to OTA TV you ensure (at least in theory) that if deregulated cable rates get too high, one can switch to OTA or satellite. ========================================= Either way, Elmo is indeed correct. -- Doug Smith W9WI Pleasant View, TN EM66 |
"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
"Gordon" wrote in message ... raypsi wrote in news:eedf031f-c023-4a15-abea- : Then there is mine... http://mysite.verizon.net/g_reeder/C...V_antenna.html Hi, Gordon, I recall when you introduced your neat handiwork to the group. I meant to ask a question: Did you ever try connecting each of the antennas' twin lead to its own separate balun and combine the 75-ohm sides of the baluns into a single coax? A passive splitter, connected backwards, performs this function nicely. I ask because, as you have your antenna wired (two antennas in parallel to a single balun) looks like an impedance mismatch; the balun wants a 300-ohm connection to the two screws and two 300-ohm antennas at the same time would be 150-ohms. I think you previously said you are not a techie, so forgive me if I'm using terms you don't know. Not being one to argue with success, if you tried it and it wasn't any better, then more power to you. Rock on! "Sal" PS: For my fellow techies: Yes, I realize the 300-ohm figure for a bowtie is nominal and the actual impedance will differ from that figure. Paralleling the two antennas could be superior. |
"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
"Sal M. Onella" wrote in
: "Gordon" wrote in message ... raypsi wrote in news:eedf031f-c023-4a15-abea- : Then there is mine... http://mysite.verizon.net/g_reeder/C...V_antenna.html Hi, Gordon, I recall when you introduced your neat handiwork to the group. I meant to ask a question: Did you ever try connecting each of the antennas' twin lead to its own separate balun and combine the 75-ohm sides of the baluns into a single coax? A passive splitter, connected backwards, performs this function nicely. No, I didn't think to try that. I could give it a shot, I have all the necessary parts. I am concerned about loss, and thought that the extra hardware would introduce too much extra loss. I ask because, as you have your antenna wired (two antennas in parallel to a single balun) looks like an impedance mismatch; the balun wants a 300-ohm connection to the two screws and two 300-ohm antennas at the same time would be 150-ohms. I think you previously said you are not a techie, so forgive me if I'm using terms you don't know. I'm following you. Hmmm... Yes. I can see how there could be a mismatch. But I thought that only applied to simple things like resistance in DC and AC circuits. RF is not one of my forte`s. Anyway, I was trying to mimic the Channelmaster two and 4 bay bowtie designs, that seem to have a 300 ohm feed. Maybe someone could explain that. Not being one to argue with success, if you tried it and it wasn't any better, then more power to you. Rock on! Well, I got an improvement, probably in spite of myself. The setup gives better signal strength, and is less suseptable to interfearence (people walking aroung the room) than just a single bowtie. "Sal" PS: For my fellow techies: Yes, I realize the 300-ohm figure for a bowtie is nominal and the actual impedance will differ from that figure. Paralleling the two antennas could be superior. |
"Panel" style UHF DTV antenna?
Gordon wrote:
Well, I got an improvement, probably in spite of myself. The setup gives better signal strength, and is less suseptable to interfearence (people walking aroung the room) than just a single bowtie. A mismatch can cause ghosting in an analog TV. What does ghosting do to a digital TV signal? -- 73, Cecil, IEEE, OOTC, http://www.w5dxp.com |
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