The Transformer
 

If one could "ride the electron", what happens deep inside the
transformer such that the inductance of the primary does not
limit the current passing through that primary?

(This lack of understanding always made me feel uneasy when
winding my own potcores for the instrumentation amplifier
I was charged with desiging in my first year after graduating)

This, amongst other things, puzzled me for some time, but
ultimately I reasoned it out. Would anybody like
to partake in a _GENTLEMANLY_ discussion about such technical
matters?

Also, what of a visualisation of the Magnetic Vector Potential, "A"?

The Transformer
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
If one could "ride the electron", what happens deep inside the
transformer such that the inductance of the primary does not
limit the current passing through that primary?

(This lack of understanding always made me feel uneasy when
winding my own potcores for the instrumentation amplifier
I was charged with desiging in my first year after graduating)

This, amongst other things, puzzled me for some time, but
ultimately I reasoned it out. Would anybody like
to partake in a _GENTLEMANLY_ discussion about such technical
matters?

Also, what of a visualisation of the Magnetic Vector Potential, "A"?

Come on then Gareth, we know you are just dying to tell us all the answers.

The Transformer
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
If one could "ride the electron", what happens deep inside the
transformer such that the inductance of the primary does not
limit the current passing through that primary?

(This lack of understanding always made me feel uneasy when
winding my own potcores for the instrumentation amplifier
I was charged with desiging in my first year after graduating)

This, amongst other things, puzzled me for some time, but
ultimately I reasoned it out. Would anybody like
to partake in a _GENTLEMANLY_ discussion about such technical
matters?

Also, what of a visualisation of the Magnetic Vector Potential, "A"?



PASS .......

The Transformer
 

On Mon, 12 May 2014 12:08:00 +0100, gareth wrote:

If one could "ride the electron", what happens deep inside the
transformer such that the inductance of the primary does not limit the
current passing through that primary?

(This lack of understanding always made me feel uneasy when winding my
own potcores for the instrumentation amplifier I was charged with
desiging in my first year after graduating)

This, amongst other things, puzzled me for some time, but ultimately I
reasoned it out. Would anybody like to partake in a _GENTLEMANLY_
discussion about such technical matters?

Also, what of a visualisation of the Magnetic Vector Potential, "A"?

The inductance of the primary does limit the primary current (except for
losses) as long as the secondary is unloaded. When a load is placed on
the transformer, the current through the secondary generates it's own
magnetic field in opposition to the field from the primary. This
effectively reduces the inductance and allows more current to flow.

There are also other ways to look at it.

--
Jim Mueller

To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman.
Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us.

The Transformer
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
If one could "ride the electron", what happens deep inside the
transformer such that the inductance of the primary does not
limit the current passing through that primary?

(This lack of understanding always made me feel uneasy when
winding my own potcores for the instrumentation amplifier
I was charged with desiging in my first year after graduating)

This, amongst other things, puzzled me for some time, but
ultimately I reasoned it out. Would anybody like
to partake in a _GENTLEMANLY_ discussion about such technical
matters?

Also, what of a visualisation of the Magnetic Vector Potential, "A"?

Stop trying to look intelligent, Beanie, it doesn't work.
--
;-)
..
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.
..
http://turner-smith.co.uk

The Transformer
 

"Jim Mueller" wrote in message
eb.com...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 12:08:00 +0100, gareth wrote:

If one could "ride the electron", what happens deep inside the
transformer such that the inductance of the primary does not limit the
current passing through that primary?

(This lack of understanding always made me feel uneasy when winding my
own potcores for the instrumentation amplifier I was charged with
desiging in my first year after graduating)

This, amongst other things, puzzled me for some time, but ultimately I
reasoned it out. Would anybody like to partake in a _GENTLEMANLY_
discussion about such technical matters?

Also, what of a visualisation of the Magnetic Vector Potential, "A"?

The inductance of the primary does limit the primary current (except for
losses) as long as the secondary is unloaded. When a load is placed on
the transformer, the current through the secondary generates it's own
magnetic field in opposition to the field from the primary. This
effectively reduces the inductance and allows more current to flow.

There are also other ways to look at it.

Yup, you've got it!

The Transformer
 

On Mon, 12 May 2014 13:04:26 +0100, Badluck Jimbo ... wrote:

PASS .......

With honours!



--
M0WYM
Sales @ radiowymsey
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sales-At-Radio-Wymsey/

The Transformer
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

Another name for the Magnetic Vector Potential is curl,

That's not correct. Curl is a vector field function applicable to many
things, and you have to have the curl of something.

which is key to understanding it, as there is also a Magnetic Scalar
potential. Confuse the two and you will never understand them.

39


Back the Magnetic Vector Potential under the name of curl. Curl is used in
3D Vector Calculus (essentially calculus applied to the three orthogonal
components of a vector) and is referred to as a vector operator.
Importantly, it is only applied to rotating vectors

That is very misleading. The flow in a stream has curl when the
middle of the stream flows faster than the edges, but the individual
flow vectors are linear and not rotating.


and, like like all calculus, assumes infinitesimally small changes (in
this case rotation). The curl is found by applying the curl operator, and
it yields a vector represents the instantaneous direction and rate of
change of the Magnetic field.

That is misleading as well. A linear magnetic field moving through
a medium of varying permeability will have a spatial rate of change but
it will not be revealed by curling.


Thus, the Magnetic Vector Potential is a vector which represents the
instantaneous rate of change in the magnetic field.

That is complete nonsense. "Instantaneous" refers to a time element,
whereas curl is a spatial operator.


It is a vector as it has "direction" (as magnetic fields have directions)
and magnitude. It is a rate of change as the curl operator is a
differential operator, applied to the 3 components of rotating vector.


Note: In this context, the rotating vector may be generated by a
sinusoidal current in a coil as identical to one generated by a true
rotating magnetic field


No doubt the OP will criticise the above but that is up to him. It should
have been covered in a telecomms degree. The calculus, although in 3D, is
actually minimal, in that it is applied independently and so is really A
level (or O level for us oldies).


39

Quite a lot of blustering there, OM, but my question related to a visual
representation of the phenomen. Perhaps your much-noted need to
jump in with snide remarks over-rode your technical research via google?

The Transformer
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Jim Mueller" wrote in message
eb.com...
On Mon, 12 May 2014 12:08:00 +0100, gareth wrote:

If one could "ride the electron", what happens deep inside the
transformer such that the inductance of the primary does not limit the
current passing through that primary?

(This lack of understanding always made me feel uneasy when winding my
own potcores for the instrumentation amplifier I was charged with
desiging in my first year after graduating)

This, amongst other things, puzzled me for some time, but ultimately I
reasoned it out. Would anybody like to partake in a _GENTLEMANLY_
discussion about such technical matters?

Also, what of a visualisation of the Magnetic Vector Potential, "A"?

The inductance of the primary does limit the primary current (except for
losses) as long as the secondary is unloaded. When a load is placed on
the transformer, the current through the secondary generates it's own
magnetic field in opposition to the field from the primary. This
effectively reduces the inductance and allows more current to flow.

There are also other ways to look at it.

Yup, you've got it!


.... and, of course, when the secondary circuit is saturated, it is then that
the
inductance of the primary comes into play to limit the current. An almost
instantaneous effect but then, unless at RF, we do not consider wave
behaviour in transformers.

The Transformer
 

On 13/05/2014 10:08, gareth wrote:

... and, of course, when the secondary circuit is saturated, it is then that

It's the core that saturates, not the secondary circuit.

the
inductance of the primary comes into play to limit the

It's the DC resistance that limits the primary current once the core is
saturated, not the inductance.

The Transformer
 

On 13/05/2014 11:33, Brian Morrison wrote:
On Tue, 13 May 2014 10:39:24 +0100
Kafkaesque wrote:

It's the DC resistance that limits the primary current once the core
is saturated, not the inductance.

When the core is saturated the effective inductance is zero. Think
about the B-H loop diagram for a transformer.

Which is why it's the resistance which limits the current for the parts
of each half-cycle during which the core is saturated.

On the other hand, the resistance will rise (or even O/C) because the
temperature will rise ... possibly quite rapidly :-)

The Transformer
 

"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
...

It's the DC resistance that limits the primary current once the core
is saturated, not the inductance.

When the core is saturated the effective inductance is zero. Think
about the B-H loop diagram for a transformer.

You misunderstand.

I was referring to the saturation of the current, which is limited by the
secondary load.

The Transformer
 

On 13/05/2014 12:23, gareth wrote:
"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
...

It's the DC resistance that limits the primary current once the core
is saturated, not the inductance.

When the core is saturated the effective inductance is zero. Think
about the B-H loop diagram for a transformer.

You misunderstand.

I was referring to the saturation of the current, which is limited by the
secondary load.

Are you referring to saturation of the diodes in the rectifier connected
to the secondary?

The Transformer
 

Brian,

Hullo?

Are you returning to dispute about that which I said you are in error,
or does it stand that you have been corrected by me (yet again)?

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

Another name for the Magnetic Vector Potential is curl,

That's not correct. Curl is a vector field function applicable to many
things, and you have to have the curl of something.

which is key to understanding it, as there is also a Magnetic Scalar
potential. Confuse the two and you will never understand them.

39


Back the Magnetic Vector Potential under the name of curl. Curl is used
in 3D Vector Calculus (essentially calculus applied to the three
orthogonal components of a vector) and is referred to as a vector
operator. Importantly, it is only applied to rotating vectors

That is very misleading. The flow in a stream has curl when the
middle of the stream flows faster than the edges, but the individual
flow vectors are linear and not rotating.


and, like like all calculus, assumes infinitesimally small changes (in
this case rotation). The curl is found by applying the curl operator, and
it yields a vector represents the instantaneous direction and rate of
change of the Magnetic field.

That is misleading as well. A linear magnetic field moving through
a medium of varying permeability will have a spatial rate of change but
it will not be revealed by curling.


Thus, the Magnetic Vector Potential is a vector which represents the
instantaneous rate of change in the magnetic field.

That is complete nonsense. "Instantaneous" refers to a time element,
whereas curl is a spatial operator.


It is a vector as it has "direction" (as magnetic fields have directions)
and magnitude. It is a rate of change as the curl operator is a
differential operator, applied to the 3 components of rotating vector.


Note: In this context, the rotating vector may be generated by a
sinusoidal current in a coil as identical to one generated by a true
rotating magnetic field


No doubt the OP will criticise the above but that is up to him. It should
have been covered in a telecomms degree. The calculus, although in 3D, is
actually minimal, in that it is applied independently and so is really A
level (or O level for us oldies).


39

Quite a lot of blustering there, OM, but my question related to a visual
representation of the phenomen. Perhaps your much-noted need to
jump in with snide remarks over-rode your technical research via google?

The Transformer
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...

Also, what of a visualisation of the Magnetic Vector Potential, "A"?


This was something that I puzzled over for years, because in my Uni
textbooks it was introduced out-of-the-blue, but without any preamble
and was therefore difficult to see how it came in (understanding first,
maths second!)

The revelation came, probably about 20 years after studying all that
stuff at Uni, when I was standing close to the platform edge when
a fast train went through, and the dust devils from that passing, as
well as being at ground level, were also in vortices in the air,at which
point it became clear in my mind.

We have many models for what is happening in electrickery, and all
of them are incomplete, or just plain wrong, so it is perhaps surprising
that any tyro can progress!

The Transformer
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

I've little doubt this is another of his attempts to start a vehicle for
his abuse.

39, OM.

Why are you so opposed to every attempt of mine to foment discussion
on technical matters in the amateur radio NG, and thereby restore to
prominence
the other great tradition of amateur radio, that of international
gentlemanliness?

What have you got against open technical discussion?

So far, the only abuse is that quoted above, and it has come from your own
keyboard, and your own keyboard alone.

What is it that has you contributing so much bile and bitterness into these
NG?

You repeatedly lay that sort of accusation at the door of other
contributors,
but invariably it is from you that unpleasantness originates, as quoted
above.

The Transformer
 

Well Brian, OM, point out the technical errors
in what I have replied to you. It would be a far better
approach than resorting to infantile sneers such as you do below?

(It is not a good example of public debate for the schoolchildren
under your care when you resort to abusive remarks after you
have been challenged in debate.)

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

I see he is also disputing KFK's /BM's inputs.

39

No, I'm not. What Brian said is true, but it is not to what
I was referring. Perhaps, once again, you urge to rush in
with infantile remarks has over-ridden your comprehension
of what you read?

You have to ask yourself why he thinks those with successful careers in
engineering (despite his totally false and malicious claims) are wrong and
he is always right.

23

We are not the ones with an "interesting" history of complaining about
employers etc.

39

An attempt to start Big K saga mk2.

7

Clearly he isn't getting enough attention in other areas.

39

The Transformer
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

You have to ask yourself why he thinks those with successful careers in
engineering are wrong and he is always right.

What a peculiar thing to say?

Are you suggesting that at times that you post things that you think to be
wrong?

But I think that you're on a very sticky wicket by referring
to "those with successful careers in engineering ", after Stan G4EGH
described you in floods of tears down the phone to him after you
were terminated only a very few weeks after changing jobs.

What happened there, OM?

The Transformer
 

On Tue, 13 May 2014 15:46:48 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

You have to ask yourself why he thinks those with successful careers in
engineering are wrong and he is always right.

What a peculiar thing to say?

Are you suggesting that at times that you post things that you think to be
wrong?

But I think that you're on a very sticky wicket by referring
to "those with successful careers in engineering ", after Stan G4EGH
described you in floods of tears down the phone to him after you
were terminated only a very few weeks after changing jobs.

What happened there, OM?

That's an interesting point Gareth, why exactly would some-one who had
such a successful career, take up teaching? Indeed he is so desperate
to attempt to feel superior that he spends half the night researching
the Royal Logistic Corps in order to attempt to another poster wrong!

The Transformer
 

"Rambo" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 May 2014 15:46:48 +0100, "gareth"
wrote:

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

You have to ask yourself why he thinks those with successful careers in
engineering are wrong and he is always right.

What a peculiar thing to say?

Are you suggesting that at times that you post things that you think to be
wrong?

But I think that you're on a very sticky wicket by referring
to "those with successful careers in engineering ", after Stan G4EGH
described you in floods of tears down the phone to him after you
were terminated only a very few weeks after changing jobs.

What happened there, OM?

That's an interesting point Gareth, why exactly would some-one who had
such a successful career, take up teaching? Indeed he is so desperate
to attempt to feel superior that he spends half the night researching
the Royal Logistic Corps in order to attempt to another poster wrong!

The vocation of teaching is an indicator of a noble profession, but only
when
undertaken from graduation.

Those who "decide" to take up teaching at the age of 45 because their
"successful career" has been terminated and they cannot get another
job are just despicable.

When someone who _BOASTS_ of two degrees, one in electronics and the
other in mathematics talks such arrant nonsense about vector field theory
and makes false claims that the vector magnetic potential is a curl***** and
all is accompanied by gratuitous snide remarks, one
is forced to call into question exactly what nonsense he teaches and
whether or not he should be allowed to continue in a classroom?

The magnetic vector potential, A, is not a curl; however, the
magnetic field B comes from curl A.

(EOE, it is 20 years since Ii last looked at all this)

The Transformer
 

On Tue, 13 May 2014 12:36:54 +0100, Kafkaesque
wrote:
Are you referring to saturation of the diodes in the rectifier
connected
to the secondary?

To save energy put the diode in series with the primary.

--
73 de Frank Turner-Smith G3VKI - mine's a pint.

BRIAN !!!!! M3OSN !!!!!
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

I've little doubt this is another of his attempts to start a vehicle for
his abuse.

39, OM.

Why are you so opposed to every attempt of mine to foment discussion
on technical matters in the amateur radio NG, and thereby restore to
prominence
the other great tradition of amateur radio, that of international
gentlemanliness?

What have you got against open technical discussion?

So far, the only abuse is that quoted above, and it has come from your own
keyboard, and your own keyboard alone.

What is it that has you contributing so much bile and bitterness into
these NG?

You repeatedly lay that sort of accusation at the door of other
contributors,
but invariably it is from you that unpleasantness originates, as quoted
above.


Are you there, Brian?

Hullo?

BRIAN !! M3OSN !!! ARE YOU THERE, OM?
 

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
Another name for the Magnetic Vector Potential is curl,

That's not correct. Curl is a vector field function applicable to many
things, and you have to have the curl of something.


Brian?



Back the Magnetic Vector Potential under the name of curl. Curl is used
in 3D Vector Calculus (essentially calculus applied to the three
orthogonal components of a vector) and is referred to as a vector
operator. Importantly, it is only applied to rotating vectors

That is very misleading. The flow in a stream has curl when the
middle of the stream flows faster than the edges, but the individual
flow vectors are linear and not rotating.


Brian?

(Put a stick transversely across the varying flow rates and the curl will
become
immediately apparent to you)


and, like like all calculus, assumes infinitesimally small changes (in
this case rotation). The curl is found by applying the curl operator, and
it yields a vector represents the instantaneous direction and rate of
change of the Magnetic field.

That is misleading as well. A linear magnetic field moving through
a medium of varying permeability will have a spatial rate of change but
it will not be revealed by curling.


Brian?




Thus, the Magnetic Vector Potential is a vector which represents the
instantaneous rate of change in the magnetic field.

That is complete nonsense. "Instantaneous" refers to a time element,
whereas curl is a spatial operator.



Brian?



To paraphrase your own remark, I find it to be unbelievable that someone
who boasts of two degrees, the first in electronics and the second in
mathematics, could be so ignorant of such matters; matters that prelie an
understanding of Maxwell's Equations. In my time, we studied grad, div
and curl and all the associated identities in the second year maths course.

BRIAN !! M3OSN !!! ARE YOU THERE, OM?
 

I think that M3OSN's habit of running away from technical discussion,
shouting
insults as he goes, tells us all we need to know about his persona when he
pours scorn on others' technical viewpoints; his persona is one of an
ignorant blustering infant desperate for the adulation of his peers.

Which gives us number 46 in M3OSN's repertoire of standard responses ...

46. Ignorant blustering infant desperate for attention

"gareth" wrote in message
...
"gareth" wrote in message
...
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
Another name for the Magnetic Vector Potential is curl,

That's not correct. Curl is a vector field function applicable to many
things, and you have to have the curl of something.


Brian?



Back the Magnetic Vector Potential under the name of curl. Curl is used
in 3D Vector Calculus (essentially calculus applied to the three
orthogonal components of a vector) and is referred to as a vector
operator. Importantly, it is only applied to rotating vectors

That is very misleading. The flow in a stream has curl when the
middle of the stream flows faster than the edges, but the individual
flow vectors are linear and not rotating.


Brian?

(Put a stick transversely across the varying flow rates and the curl will
become
immediately apparent to you)


and, like like all calculus, assumes infinitesimally small changes (in
this case rotation). The curl is found by applying the curl operator,
and it yields a vector represents the instantaneous direction and rate
of change of the Magnetic field.

That is misleading as well. A linear magnetic field moving through
a medium of varying permeability will have a spatial rate of change but
it will not be revealed by curling.


Brian?




Thus, the Magnetic Vector Potential is a vector which represents the
instantaneous rate of change in the magnetic field.

That is complete nonsense. "Instantaneous" refers to a time element,
whereas curl is a spatial operator.



Brian?



To paraphrase your own remark, I find it to be unbelievable that someone
who boasts of two degrees, the first in electronics and the second in
mathematics, could be so ignorant of such matters; matters that prelie an
understanding of Maxwell's Equations. In my time, we studied grad, div
and curl and all the associated identities in the second year maths
course.

BRIAN !!!!! M3OSN !!!!!
 

On Wed, 14 May 2014 16:04:26 +0100, gareth wrote:

Hullo?

I come to this quiet corner of the internets to see what's brewing. It is
very peaceful as I am often the only person here, AFAIK.

Unfortunately someone seems to have included this group when posting to
ukra and then all the sheep automatically follow. Pointless really if
there's me in here and I don't want to see all the usual dross posted on
ukra - that's why I unsubscribed.

Can we please not have ukra in rrah, TIA & 88s.



--
M0WYM
Sales @ radiowymsey
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sales-At-Radio-Wymsey/

The Transformer
 

On 13/05/2014 12:23, gareth wrote:
"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
...

It's the DC resistance that limits the primary current once the core
is saturated, not the inductance.

When the core is saturated the effective inductance is zero. Think
about the B-H loop diagram for a transformer.

You misunderstand.

I was referring to the saturation of the current, which is limited by the
secondary load.

I think I understand your confusion Gareth.

If the core of the transformer is saturating, then the secondary output
will be distorted, and the peak voltage will not be as high as one might
expect from the turns ratio.

This in turn will limit the secondary current for any given load.

Could this be the effect that you have mistakenly assumed to be
"saturation of the current"?

73
Mike G4KFK

BRIAN !!!!! M3OSN !!!!!
 

"Wymsey" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 May 2014 16:04:26 +0100, gareth wrote:

Hullo?

I come to this quiet corner of the internets to see what's brewing. It is
very peaceful as I am often the only person here, AFAIK.


I know different.

The Transformer
 

On 13/05/2014 17:25, Rambo wrote:

That's an interesting point Gareth, why exactly would some-one who had
such a successful career, take up teaching?

It is not uncommon for people with a successful career to look towards
teaching. I was facing redundancy this year and my plan if accepted for
VR was to go into teacher training. After 30 years + in engineering I
was looking at teaching physics or maths.
As it happened I was turned down for voluntary redundancy so I am still
in industry.

Andy

The Transformer
 

In message , gareth
writes
"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
k...

It's the DC resistance that limits the primary current once the core
is saturated, not the inductance.

When the core is saturated the effective inductance is zero. Think
about the B-H loop diagram for a transformer.

You misunderstand.

I was referring to the saturation of the current, which is limited by the
secondary load.

It's the core which saturates. It can start to saturate without any
secondary current being drawn. If the transformer 'runs out of'
inductance, the primary current can go sky high, as it is essentially
limited by the primary resistance.
--
Ian

The Transformer
 

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , gareth
writes
"Brian Morrison" wrote in message
. uk...

It's the DC resistance that limits the primary current once the core
is saturated, not the inductance.

When the core is saturated the effective inductance is zero. Think
about the B-H loop diagram for a transformer.

You misunderstand.

I was referring to the saturation of the current, which is limited by the
secondary load.

It's the core which saturates. It can start to saturate without any
secondary current being drawn. If the transformer 'runs out of'
inductance, the primary current can go sky high, as it is essentially
limited by the primary resistance.

You are discussing magnetic saturation. I was discussing the current
saturating to the limit brought on by the secondary load.

Although the I=E/R relationship is normally presented as instantaneous,
it is not, and it takes a finite, although in finitesimal, time to reach the
value.

Likewise, in my comments, it takes some small time for the secondary current
to
reach that value, to saturate, in other words.

Consider a simple circuit of battery, switch and resistor; how does the
battery "know" how much current to flow before it has "encountered" the
resistor?

Perhaps a poor choice of wording on my behalf, when I did not
anticipate your "susceptance"? :-)

But this is (hopefully!) a gentlemanly chatty group and chatting on civilly
should always iron out such misunderstandings.

The Transformer
 

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

It's the core which saturates. It can start to saturate without any
secondary current being drawn. If the transformer 'runs out of'
inductance, the primary current can go sky high, as it is essentially
limited by the primary resistance.

Actually, in theory, limited by the primary as a now-air-cored inductance,
but in practice by that resistance.

The Transformer
 

On 5/15/2014 6:25 AM, AndyW wrote:
On 13/05/2014 17:25, Rambo wrote:

That's an interesting point Gareth, why exactly would some-one who had
such a successful career, take up teaching?

It is not uncommon for people with a successful career to look towards
teaching. I was facing redundancy this year and my plan if accepted for
VR was to go into teacher training. After 30 years + in engineering I
was looking at teaching physics or maths.
As it happened I was turned down for voluntary redundancy so I am still
in industry.

Andy

Andy, additionally, it depends on your audience. I worked for a number
of years as an instructor. But my audience was programmers for large
companies. For this audience you need experienced programmers who
really know their stuff; every other instructor I knew also had years of
experience programming in what they taught.

In this environment, you need to know the correct answer to questions
and problems. Now that doesn't mean you can't occasionally tell someone
"I don't know but I'll find out". But it means you can't do it very
often or you'll quickly lose your credibility (and any chance of a
repeat performance).

I loved the teaching (and it paid well), but I'm too old for all of the
travel (at least 75K air miles/yr. in the U.S., Asia and Europe, often
only home for a short weekend). I prefer to be home in my own bed every
night.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

The Transformer
 

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
...
Andy, additionally, it depends on your audience. I worked for a number of
years as an instructor. But my audience was programmers for large
companies. For this audience you need experienced programmers who really
know their stuff; every other instructor I knew also had years of
experience programming in what they taught.


I guess that you'd be from the, "Real programmers don't write Pascal" years?
:-)

BRIAN !!!!! M3OSN !!!!!
 

On Thu, 15 May 2014 09:21:38 +0100, gareth wrote:

I know different.

Jolly good, now just limit your non-homebrew posts at ukra where your
combatants are.

TIA

--
M0WYM
Sales @ radiowymsey
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Sales-At-Radio-Wymsey/

BRIAN !!!!! M3OSN !!!!!
 

"Wymsey" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 15 May 2014 09:21:38 +0100, gareth wrote:

I know different.

Jolly good, now just limit your non-homebrew posts at ukra where your
combatants are.

You, Chronos and Walt.

I wonder how many more have deserted what once was a paragon
of discussion of amateur radio?

Have you any experience of coil winding machines, and have you,
perchance, a turns counter in your ebay sales lists?

The Transformer
 

On 15/05/2014 13:38, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Andy, additionally, it depends on your audience. I worked for a number
of years as an instructor. But my audience was programmers for large
companies. For this audience you need experienced programmers who
really know their stuff; every other instructor I knew also had years of
experience programming in what they taught.

I was looking at secondary school teaching but I know what you mean. A
lot of my kids' teachers were straight from university into teaching
with no real world experience. My son was having problems with object
theory in computing and his teacher kept trotting out the Accounts model
for objects that she learned in university which has zero relevance to a
teenage boy.
After a quick conversion into a relevant example ie abstract GUN object
in a computer game with subclasses of pistol, shotgun, BFG etc and he
picked it up right away.
We also looked at dungeons and dragons abstract Player class with elves
and humans as subclasses.
From that it was easy to translate Interfaces, static classes,
extending classes, inheritance etc.
Too many of the 'career teachers' simply do not have enough real world
experience to make thins relevant.

Andy

The Transformer
 

On 5/16/2014 3:26 AM, AndyW wrote:
On 15/05/2014 13:38, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

Andy, additionally, it depends on your audience. I worked for a number
of years as an instructor. But my audience was programmers for large
companies. For this audience you need experienced programmers who
really know their stuff; every other instructor I knew also had years of
experience programming in what they taught.

I was looking at secondary school teaching but I know what you mean. A
lot of my kids' teachers were straight from university into teaching
with no real world experience. My son was having problems with object
theory in computing and his teacher kept trotting out the Accounts model
for objects that she learned in university which has zero relevance to a
teenage boy.
After a quick conversion into a relevant example ie abstract GUN object
in a computer game with subclasses of pistol, shotgun, BFG etc and he
picked it up right away.
We also looked at dungeons and dragons abstract Player class with elves
and humans as subclasses.
From that it was easy to translate Interfaces, static classes,
extending classes, inheritance etc.
Too many of the 'career teachers' simply do not have enough real world
experience to make thins relevant.

Andy

And I'll never forget the time a friend (and fellow IBMer) of mine's
early teen daughter took a night course on computers (this was back in
the mid-late 80's). On the first night, the instructor held up a 5.25"
diskette and said "This is a floppy disk". The instructor then held up
a 3.5" diskette and said "This is a hard disk". The class was downhill
from there.

Of course this story will be lost on anyone under 35 years old :).

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

The Transformer
 

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
...

Of course this story will be lost on anyone under 35 years old :).

Especially if the first floppies your dealt with were 8" 160k!

The Transformer
 

On 16/05/14 14:53, Jerry Stuckle wrote:


And I'll never forget the time a friend (and fellow IBMer) of mine's
early teen daughter took a night course on computers (this was back in
the mid-late 80's). On the first night, the instructor held up a 5.25"
diskette and said "This is a floppy disk". The instructor then held up
a 3.5" diskette and said "This is a hard disk". The class was downhill
from there.

Such things are not uncommon Jerry. Some wannabe manages to secure a
post in local college (were qualifications are often not required to
teach) and last under a term. He may well end up leaving under a could,
probably with a letter to the Principal claiming some mal-practice on
the part of the college when, in fact, the wannabe was simply not up to
the job. He will forever claim to have teaching or lecturing experience.

The Transformer
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

Such things are not uncommon Jerry. Some wannabe manages to secure a post
in local college (were qualifications are often not required to teach) and
last under a term. He may well end up leaving under a could, probably with
a letter to the Principal claiming some mal-practice on the part of the
college when, in fact, the wannabe was simply not up to the job. He will
forever claim to have teaching or lecturing experience.

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