Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

Increasingly, components are more available in SMD form
than in leaded varieties.

Now, I have not tried the following, it is a suggestion as I'm
bogged down in other projects ...

With a single-sided PCB, used as the earth plane, glue
the SMD components down on the fibreglass side, allowing
at least 1/4" either side of each component. This is to ensure
that there is room for your soldering iron and allows for decreasing
eyesight and wobbly fingers.

When the glue is dried hard, then wire together using that pink
stuff that does not need the enamel to be stripped before
soldering.

And I mean HARD!

But be cautious over some glues that release when heated,
such as cyanoacrylate super glues and the Brit Araldite.

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 16:24:46 +0100, gareth wrote:

Increasingly, components are more available in SMD form than in leaded
varieties.

Now, I have not tried the following, it is a suggestion as I'm bogged
down in other projects ...

With a single-sided PCB, used as the earth plane, glue the SMD
components down on the fibreglass side, allowing at least 1/4" either
side of each component. This is to ensure that there is room for your
soldering iron and allows for decreasing eyesight and wobbly fingers.

When the glue is dried hard, then wire together using that pink stuff
that does not need the enamel to be stripped before soldering.

And I mean HARD!

But be cautious over some glues that release when heated,
such as cyanoacrylate super glues and the Brit Araldite.

Another way is to use perfboard with pads on one side every 0.1" (and no
ground plane in between!). The other side can be bare, ground plane,
more pads, or whatever is needed. 0805 and 1206 size components can be
easily soldered between the pads, perhaps even 0603. Several components
can be soldered to one pad, each going in its own direction; this is for
where several components have a common connection.

For ICs with 0.05" lead spacing, bend every other lead up and solder the
remaining leads to pads. The bent-up leads are connected in the air.
Sometimes, the circuit calls for adjacent leads to be connected together;
if this is the case, it may be possible to alter the bending sequence to
allow them to be soldered to the same pad.

ICs with lead spacing closer than 0.05" are a pain to hand solder even on
a correctly laid out PC board. And, of course, BGAs can't be hand
soldered at all.

An advantage over the OP is that you don't have to wait for glue to dry.

I have personally used these techniques both in building home projects
and breadboards for work. Sometimes using these methods with SMD parts
is easier than using leaded parts.

Don't use cyanoacrylate super glues on anything that will be heated; they
give off nasty fumes.

--
Jim Mueller

To get my real email address, replace wrongname with dadoheadman.
Then replace nospam with fastmail. Lastly, replace com with us.

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014, Jim Mueller wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 16:24:46 +0100, gareth wrote:

Increasingly, components are more available in SMD form than in leaded
varieties.

Now, I have not tried the following, it is a suggestion as I'm bogged
down in other projects ...

With a single-sided PCB, used as the earth plane, glue the SMD
components down on the fibreglass side, allowing at least 1/4" either
side of each component. This is to ensure that there is room for your
soldering iron and allows for decreasing eyesight and wobbly fingers.

When the glue is dried hard, then wire together using that pink stuff
that does not need the enamel to be stripped before soldering.

And I mean HARD!

But be cautious over some glues that release when heated,
such as cyanoacrylate super glues and the Brit Araldite.

Another way is to use perfboard with pads on one side every 0.1" (and no
ground plane in between!). The other side can be bare, ground plane,
more pads, or whatever is needed. 0805 and 1206 size components can be
easily soldered between the pads, perhaps even 0603. Several components
can be soldered to one pad, each going in its own direction; this is for
where several components have a common connection.

For ICs with 0.05" lead spacing, bend every other lead up and solder the
remaining leads to pads. The bent-up leads are connected in the air.
Sometimes, the circuit calls for adjacent leads to be connected together;
if this is the case, it may be possible to alter the bending sequence to
allow them to be soldered to the same pad.

ICs with lead spacing closer than 0.05" are a pain to hand solder even on
a correctly laid out PC board. And, of course, BGAs can't be hand
soldered at all.

An advantage over the OP is that you don't have to wait for glue to dry.

I have personally used these techniques both in building home projects
and breadboards for work. Sometimes using these methods with SMD parts
is easier than using leaded parts.

Don't use cyanoacrylate super glues on anything that will be heated; they
give off nasty fumes.

I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion of
using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to hold
it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount within my
capability.

Michael

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

"Michael Black" wrote in message
news:alpine.LNX.2.02.1406192357540.18018@darkstar. example.org...

I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion of
using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to hold
it until you actually had something soldered.

Yes, but that presupposes a PCB is ready.

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

Jim Mueller wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 16:24:46 +0100, gareth wrote:
Don't use cyanoacrylate super glues on anything that will be heated; they
give off nasty fumes.

This also reveals fingerprints, so could help solve some cold cases in
Chippenham.

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

But you're going off at a tangent, for my suggestion related to ugly
construction and not going to the bother of getting PCBs made

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On Thursday, June 19, 2014 6:24:46 PM UTC+3, gareth wrote:
Increasingly, components are more available in SMD form

than in leaded varieties.


Or you can do it like THIS using solder as glue!
Mixing all kinds (almost) of component is possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt0S_pLQOvA

73s de oh2aun / Mike

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

Cue nonsense from Walter Mitty, which will be ignored.

You propose to ignore yourself? Good advice!

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...
For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.
You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy). Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder
paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100,
turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.
I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly good.
No
dry joints, no moved components.
The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.

Following on from your repeated childish sneer about vapourware and your
inability to establish your own bona fides in respect of completed projects
I suggest that what you type above really does take the biscuit in
terms of confabulatory Walter Mittycism?

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion
of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to
hold it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount within my capability.

Michael,

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy). Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100, turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.

I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly good. No
dry joints, no moved components.

The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.


Brian,

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion
of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to
hold it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount
within my capability.

Michael,

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy). Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100, turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.

I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly good. No
dry joints, no moved components.

The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.


Brian,

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

Don't they often use a blast of hot air?
--
Ian

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.


I ahve never heard of a line usiung robot soldering irons!! It would be
far too slow. Lines normally use either wave soldering or IR reflow.

Jeff

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/20/2014 8:01 AM, Jeff wrote:

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.


I ahve never heard of a line usiung robot soldering irons!! It would be
far too slow. Lines normally use either wave soldering or IR reflow.

Jeff

Jeff,

You'd be surprised how quickly a robot soldering iron makes a connection
- less than 1/2 second per connection (and, of course, you can have
multiple irons working on the same board simultaneously, with proper
programming). The first time I saw it was back in the 70's, but I'm
sure it was in use long before that.

Yes, it's slower than wave or IR reflow. But it's a proven technology
which has been around for decades and does have its uses - i.e.
temperature-sensitive components which can't handle the heat of wave or
IR reflow.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/20/2014 7:45 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion
of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to
hold it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the
jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not
going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will
stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that
board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount
within my capability.

Michael,

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of
thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy).
Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder
paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to
100, turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you
can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and
flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.

I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly
good. No
dry joints, no moved components.

The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and
the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.


Brian,

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

Don't they often use a blast of hot air?

No, the ones I've seen actually have a hot tip. A quick touch is all it
needs; in operation it looks like a sewing machine.

The biggest advantage is the connection gets hot, but the part doesn't,
due to the short contact time.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2014 8:01 AM, Jeff wrote:
I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.
The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.
I ahve never heard of a line usiung robot soldering irons!! It would be
far too slow. Lines normally use either wave soldering or IR reflow.
You'd be surprised how quickly a robot soldering iron makes a connection
- less than 1/2 second per connection (and, of course, you can have
multiple irons working on the same board simultaneously, with proper
programming). The first time I saw it was back in the 70's, but I'm
sure it was in use long before that.

Yes, it's slower than wave or IR reflow. But it's a proven technology
which has been around for decades and does have its uses - i.e.
temperature-sensitive components which can't handle the heat of wave or
IR reflow.


And back in the 1980s on some Perkin-Elmer processor cards, the whole card
was wired automatically, without there being an underlying PCB

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 2014-06-20 11:02:44 +0000, Jerry Stuckle said:

On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion
of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to
hold it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount within
my capability.

Michael,

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy). Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100, turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.

I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly good. No
dry joints, no moved components.

The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.


Brian,

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

I believe stencilling on solder paste, robot placement of components,
and melting the whole board in a reflow-like process with an accurately
controlled temperature vs. time profile is pretty standard for
complicated multilayer boards nowadays.

--

Percy Picacity

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/20/2014 10:05 AM, Percy Picacity wrote:
On 2014-06-20 11:02:44 +0000, Jerry Stuckle said:

On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion
of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to
hold it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the
jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not
going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will
stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that
board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount
within my capability.

Michael,

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of
thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy).
Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder
paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to
100, turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you
can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and
flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.

I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly
good. No
dry joints, no moved components.

The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and
the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.


Brian,

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

I believe stencilling on solder paste, robot placement of components,
and melting the whole board in a reflow-like process with an accurately
controlled temperature vs. time profile is pretty standard for
complicated multilayer boards nowadays.


That may be the "standard" for high volume production where temperature
sensitive parts are not involved. But it is not the only way it's done.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

Percy Picacity wrote:
I believe stencilling on solder paste, robot placement of components,
and melting the whole board in a reflow-like process with an accurately
controlled temperature vs. time profile is pretty standard for
complicated multilayer boards nowadays.

You are not going to convince Jerry once he has one of his usual
twisted views on reality...

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/20/2014 10:55 AM, Rob wrote:
Percy Picacity wrote:
I believe stencilling on solder paste, robot placement of components,
and melting the whole board in a reflow-like process with an accurately
controlled temperature vs. time profile is pretty standard for
complicated multilayer boards nowadays.

You are not going to convince Jerry once he has one of his usual
twisted views on reality...


I'm not going to be convinced I haven't seen what I have seen.

You really need to get out more. Try visiting some assembly plants in
person, for instance - instead of relying on hearsay.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/20/2014 1:32 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
Percy Picacity wrote:
On 2014-06-20 11:02:44 +0000, Jerry Stuckle said:

On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:
I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion
of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to
hold it until you actually had something soldered.
That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount within
my capability.
Michael,
For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.
You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy). Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100, turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.
I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly good. No
dry joints, no moved components.
The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.
Brian,
I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.
The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

I believe stencilling on solder paste, robot placement of components, and
melting the whole board in a reflow-like process with an accurately
controlled temperature vs. time profile is pretty standard for
complicated multilayer boards nowadays.


It is, and has been for some years, in fact decades, even in relatively
small batch production. The quality achievable is far higher that you can
get with manual assembly- once the process is right. Sometimes things like
edge connectors are pressed into holes which have been left solder free on
purpose. The plated through holes are designed to 'cold weld' (like a
crimp) when the connector is pressed home. It isn't soldered. This is
common on COTS boards used in military kit and custom boards in the same
LRUs. It is a very reliable technique.


Robotic soldering irons are NOT "manual assembly".

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2014 1:32 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
The quality achievable is far higher that you can
get with manual assembly- once the process is right.

Robotic soldering irons are NOT "manual assembly".


Stuckle v Reay, or Reay v Stuckle?

We're used to Reay over here picking a fight with anybody
over some trivial point of pedantry, so is Stuckle the same over there?

Has Tweedledum met his match in Tweedledumber?

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/20/2014 1:51 PM, gareth wrote:
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
...
On 6/20/2014 1:32 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
The quality achievable is far higher that you can
get with manual assembly- once the process is right.

Robotic soldering irons are NOT "manual assembly".


Stuckle v Reay, or Reay v Stuckle?

We're used to Reay over here picking a fight with anybody
over some trivial point of pedantry, so is Stuckle the same over there?

Has Tweedledum met his match in Tweedledumber?



Troll...

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/20/2014 3:12 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 6/20/2014 1:32 PM, Brian Reay wrote:
Percy Picacity wrote:
On 2014-06-20 11:02:44 +0000, Jerry Stuckle said:

On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:
I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion
of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to
hold it until you actually had something soldered.
That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount within
my capability.
Michael,
For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.
You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy). Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100, turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.
I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly good. No
dry joints, no moved components.
The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.
Brian,
I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.
The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

I believe stencilling on solder paste, robot placement of components, and
melting the whole board in a reflow-like process with an accurately
controlled temperature vs. time profile is pretty standard for
complicated multilayer boards nowadays.


It is, and has been for some years, in fact decades, even in relatively
small batch production. The quality achievable is far higher that you can
get with manual assembly- once the process is right. Sometimes things like
edge connectors are pressed into holes which have been left solder free on
purpose. The plated through holes are designed to 'cold weld' (like a
crimp) when the connector is pressed home. It isn't soldered. This is
common on COTS boards used in military kit and custom boards in the same
LRUs. It is a very reliable technique.


Robotic soldering irons are NOT "manual assembly".


I wasn't suggesting they were.


Then I apologize. I completely misunderstood your post.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

"Brian Reay" wrote in message
...

No problem, it is easy to go of track in a thread. Please ignore the abuse
from our resident troll, he has nothing better to do.

What was that, that you said over the past week, about your enjoying
winding people up?

Aah, here it is

-----ooooo-----
From: Brian Reay
Subject: Conducive to gentlemanly conduct?
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:00:06 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID:


It is bad manners to land someone else's fish.

There was a lot of potential in this one ;-)


-----ooooo-----

And just to show you haven't changed your defective personality, here
is another from 10 years ago...

-----ooooo-----
From: "Brian Reay"
Subject: What's wrong with M3s?
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 17:30:51 -0000
Message-ID:

The last one rather proves you are paranoid- did I say I was referring to
you?

Like shooting rats in a barrel.

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

I'm not going to be convinced I haven't seen what I have seen.

You really need to get out more. Try visiting some assembly plants in
person, for instance - instead of relying on hearsay.


Of course the converse is also true, I have been to many assembly lines
and have never seen robotic soldering used. Pick and place machines by
the dozen but never robotic soldering. Hand soldering yes, wire bonding
yes, wave soldering yes, reflow soldering yes, but never robotic
soldering machines.

So I can only go on what I have seen and not on hearsay!!

Jeff

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

At Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:02:44 -0400, Jerry Stuckle rearranged some
electrons to write:

On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the
suggestion of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It
was only to hold it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the
jeweller's loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is.
That's not going to work for soldering, but getting good magnification
that will stand on its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting.
Looking at that board with the loupe almost makes the idea of
soldering surface mount within my capability.

Michael,

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of
thing student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized
kitchen one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy).
Basically you put the board it with all the components held in place by
solder paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100,
turn oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive
the solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as
you can if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste
melts and flows to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the
door.

I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly
good. No dry joints, no moved components.

The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and
the thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.


Brian,

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

I guess you haven't seen many commercial assembly lines then.

SMD assembly lines use reflow ovens. The temperature profile is designed
to preheat the boards as they move through and get the solder above the
liquidus temperature for a few seconds.

SMD components are designed to withstand a reflow cycle.

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/21/2014 5:03 AM, Jeff wrote:

I'm not going to be convinced I haven't seen what I have seen.

You really need to get out more. Try visiting some assembly plants in
person, for instance - instead of relying on hearsay.


Of course the converse is also true, I have been to many assembly lines
and have never seen robotic soldering used. Pick and place machines by
the dozen but never robotic soldering. Hand soldering yes, wire bonding
yes, wave soldering yes, reflow soldering yes, but never robotic
soldering machines.

So I can only go on what I have seen and not on hearsay!!

Jeff

Actually, you have just shown you've never seen ANY assembly line.

But we all know you're a lying troll anyway, so that's no surprise.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/21/2014 6:09 AM, David wrote:
At Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:02:44 -0400, Jerry Stuckle rearranged some
electrons to write:

On 6/20/2014 3:54 AM, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the
suggestion of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It
was only to hold it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the
jeweller's loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is.
That's not going to work for soldering, but getting good magnification
that will stand on its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting.
Looking at that board with the loupe almost makes the idea of
soldering surface mount within my capability.

Michael,

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of
thing student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized
kitchen one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy).
Basically you put the board it with all the components held in place by
solder paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100,
turn oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive
the solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as
you can if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste
melts and flows to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the
door.

I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly
good. No dry joints, no moved components.

The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and
the thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.


Brian,

I hadn't heard of using a domestic oven like this. It sounds like an
interesting idea. But wouldn't it be a bit hard on the components? I
wouldn't think many would like being heated his hot.

The commercial assembly lines I've seen use robot soldering irons
instead of heating the entire board.

I guess you haven't seen many commercial assembly lines then.


You can't read, can you?

SMD assembly lines use reflow ovens. The temperature profile is designed
to preheat the boards as they move through and get the solder above the
liquidus temperature for a few seconds.

SMD components are designed to withstand a reflow cycle.


See, that's the difference between you and me. You think there's only
one way things are done. I know there are many ways, and acknowledge that.

So just stop your trolling.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 21/06/2014 13:18, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 6/21/2014 5:03 AM, Jeff wrote:

I'm not going to be convinced I haven't seen what I have seen.

You really need to get out more. Try visiting some assembly plants in
person, for instance - instead of relying on hearsay.


Of course the converse is also true, I have been to many assembly lines
and have never seen robotic soldering used. Pick and place machines by
the dozen but never robotic soldering. Hand soldering yes, wire bonding
yes, wave soldering yes, reflow soldering yes, but never robotic
soldering machines.

So I can only go on what I have seen and not on hearsay!!

Jeff

Actually, you have just shown you've never seen ANY assembly line.

But we all know you're a lying troll anyway, so that's no surprise.


And that response show you to be nothing more than an arrogant
loud-mouthed self-opinionated bully who can't stand being corrected; but
that is par for the course looking at your posting record; which
consists mainly of calling anyone who dares to disagree with you a troll.

Jeff

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/22/2014 4:36 AM, Jeff wrote:
On 21/06/2014 13:18, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 6/21/2014 5:03 AM, Jeff wrote:

I'm not going to be convinced I haven't seen what I have seen.

You really need to get out more. Try visiting some assembly plants in
person, for instance - instead of relying on hearsay.


Of course the converse is also true, I have been to many assembly lines
and have never seen robotic soldering used. Pick and place machines by
the dozen but never robotic soldering. Hand soldering yes, wire bonding
yes, wave soldering yes, reflow soldering yes, but never robotic
soldering machines.

So I can only go on what I have seen and not on hearsay!!

Jeff

Actually, you have just shown you've never seen ANY assembly line.

But we all know you're a lying troll anyway, so that's no surprise.


And that response show you to be nothing more than an arrogant
loud-mouthed self-opinionated bully who can't stand being corrected; but
that is par for the course looking at your posting record; which
consists mainly of calling anyone who dares to disagree with you a troll.

Jeff

A typical response from the lying troll when he's identified. You are
well known as one in such and other newsgroups.


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

Actually, you have just shown you've never seen ANY assembly line.

But we all know you're a lying troll anyway, so that's no surprise.


And that response show you to be nothing more than an arrogant
loud-mouthed self-opinionated bully who can't stand being corrected; but
that is par for the course looking at your posting record; which
consists mainly of calling anyone who dares to disagree with you a troll.

Jeff

A typical response from the lying troll when he's identified. You are
well known as one in such and other newsgroups.



Pray tell what newsgroups that might be and show soem examples? I do not
post in many, so you are either making it up or have me confused with
someone else!!!!!

Perhaps you are actually the troll who posts insults when challenged.

Jeff

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/22/2014 10:20 AM, Jeff wrote:

Actually, you have just shown you've never seen ANY assembly line.

But we all know you're a lying troll anyway, so that's no surprise.


And that response show you to be nothing more than an arrogant
loud-mouthed self-opinionated bully who can't stand being corrected; but
that is par for the course looking at your posting record; which
consists mainly of calling anyone who dares to disagree with you a
troll.

Jeff

A typical response from the lying troll when he's identified. You are
well known as one in such and other newsgroups.



Pray tell what newsgroups that might be and show soem examples? I do not
post in many, so you are either making it up or have me confused with
someone else!!!!!

Perhaps you are actually the troll who posts insults when challenged.

Jeff

Any of the uk amateur newsgroups, amongst others.

But we know you've also chopped ice from the Thwaite Glacier for your
martinis and roasted marshmallows over Mt. Etna. You're the most
educated man in the whole wide world - you know everything and have done
everything!

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

Pray tell what newsgroups that might be and show soem examples? I do not
post in many, so you are either making it up or have me confused with
someone else!!!!!

Perhaps you are actually the troll who posts insults when challenged.

Jeff

Any of the uk amateur newsgroups, amongst others.

But we know you've also chopped ice from the Thwaite Glacier for your
martinis and roasted marshmallows over Mt. Etna. You're the most
educated man in the whole wide world - you know everything and have done
everything!


Well that proves that you are lying, it is very easy to find that I only
ever post to 1 uk amateur newsgroups (unless things get cross posted),
and not very frequently in that one.

It is also clear from looking at your history that you can't bear to be
challenged and when you are you respond with insults and call people
'Trolls'. There is a clear history of this, and very easily verified. So
either you are a Troll yourself and just like insulting people who do
not agree with you, or you are so deluded with your own self-importance
that you cannot bear to be worn or even challenged on a subject.

Either way I don't wish to engage with a person such as you, so good bye.

I am sure you will post some insults in response, if you do I will not
be dignifying then with a reply.

Jeff

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/22/2014 11:55 AM, Jeff wrote:

Pray tell what newsgroups that might be and show soem examples? I do not
post in many, so you are either making it up or have me confused with
someone else!!!!!

Perhaps you are actually the troll who posts insults when challenged.

Jeff

Any of the uk amateur newsgroups, amongst others.

But we know you've also chopped ice from the Thwaite Glacier for your
martinis and roasted marshmallows over Mt. Etna. You're the most
educated man in the whole wide world - you know everything and have done
everything!


Well that proves that you are lying, it is very easy to find that I only
ever post to 1 uk amateur newsgroups (unless things get cross posted),
and not very frequently in that one.

It is also clear from looking at your history that you can't bear to be
challenged and when you are you respond with insults and call people
'Trolls'. There is a clear history of this, and very easily verified. So
either you are a Troll yourself and just like insulting people who do
not agree with you, or you are so deluded with your own self-importance
that you cannot bear to be worn or even challenged on a subject.

Either way I don't wish to engage with a person such as you, so good bye.

I am sure you will post some insults in response, if you do I will not
be dignifying then with a reply.

Jeff

No, it's clear from the history that you are a troll who only tries to
create arguments and dissention. AKA, TROLL.

This is a perfect example. You claim you have "been to many assembly
lines". But you "have never seen robotic soldering used".

Even this shows how stoopid you a http://bit.ly/T26deZ

Troll - PROVEN ONCE AGAIN!

Why don't you go back and roast your marshmallows over Mt. Etna?


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 6/22/2014 11:55 AM, Jeff wrote:

Pray tell what newsgroups that might be and show soem examples? I do not
post in many, so you are either making it up or have me confused with
someone else!!!!!

Perhaps you are actually the troll who posts insults when challenged.

Jeff

Any of the uk amateur newsgroups, amongst others.

But we know you've also chopped ice from the Thwaite Glacier for your
martinis and roasted marshmallows over Mt. Etna. You're the most
educated man in the whole wide world - you know everything and have done
everything!


Well that proves that you are lying, it is very easy to find that I only
ever post to 1 uk amateur newsgroups (unless things get cross posted),
and not very frequently in that one.

It is also clear from looking at your history that you can't bear to be
challenged and when you are you respond with insults and call people
'Trolls'. There is a clear history of this, and very easily verified. So
either you are a Troll yourself and just like insulting people who do
not agree with you, or you are so deluded with your own self-importance
that you cannot bear to be worn or even challenged on a subject.

Either way I don't wish to engage with a person such as you, so good bye.

I am sure you will post some insults in response, if you do I will not
be dignifying then with a reply.

Jeff

No, it's clear from the history that you are a troll who only tries to
create arguments and dissention. AKA, TROLL.

This is a perfect example. You claim you have "been to many assembly
lines". But you "have never seen robotic soldering used".

Even this shows how stoopid you a http://bit.ly/T26deZ

Troll - PROVEN ONCE AGAIN!

Why don't you go back and roast your marshmallows over Mt. Etna?

Jerry, I really do think that you are mistaking Jeff for somebody else.
Mind you, ISTR that you also called me a troll simply for (in all
innocence) failing to agree with you, so maybe it's simply your way of
presenting your case.
--
Ian

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

"Ian Jackson" wrote in message
...

Jerry, I really do think that you are mistaking Jeff for somebody else.
Mind you, ISTR that you also called me a troll simply for (in all
innocence) failing to agree with you, so maybe it's simply your way of
presenting your case.

Perhaps "Jerry" is one of M3OSN's sock puppets, for the behaviour
that you identify is remarkably similar?

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/23/2014 3:27 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message , Jerry Stuckle
writes
On 6/22/2014 11:55 AM, Jeff wrote:

Pray tell what newsgroups that might be and show soem examples? I
do not
post in many, so you are either making it up or have me confused with
someone else!!!!!

Perhaps you are actually the troll who posts insults when challenged.

Jeff

Any of the uk amateur newsgroups, amongst others.

But we know you've also chopped ice from the Thwaite Glacier for your
martinis and roasted marshmallows over Mt. Etna. You're the most
educated man in the whole wide world - you know everything and have
done
everything!


Well that proves that you are lying, it is very easy to find that I only
ever post to 1 uk amateur newsgroups (unless things get cross posted),
and not very frequently in that one.

It is also clear from looking at your history that you can't bear to be
challenged and when you are you respond with insults and call people
'Trolls'. There is a clear history of this, and very easily verified. So
either you are a Troll yourself and just like insulting people who do
not agree with you, or you are so deluded with your own self-importance
that you cannot bear to be worn or even challenged on a subject.

Either way I don't wish to engage with a person such as you, so good
bye.

I am sure you will post some insults in response, if you do I will not
be dignifying then with a reply.

Jeff

No, it's clear from the history that you are a troll who only tries to
create arguments and dissention. AKA, TROLL.

This is a perfect example. You claim you have "been to many assembly
lines". But you "have never seen robotic soldering used".

Even this shows how stoopid you a http://bit.ly/T26deZ

Troll - PROVEN ONCE AGAIN!

Why don't you go back and roast your marshmallows over Mt. Etna?

Jerry, I really do think that you are mistaking Jeff for somebody else.
Mind you, ISTR that you also called me a troll simply for (in all
innocence) failing to agree with you, so maybe it's simply your way of
presenting your case.

No, Ian, I am not mistaking Jeff for somebody else. This isn't the
first time he's done this. Check back through the groups - he regularly
contradicts people in this newsgroup. And he's always shown to be wrong.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

Jerry, I really do think that you are mistaking Jeff for somebody else.
Mind you, ISTR that you also called me a troll simply for (in all
innocence) failing to agree with you, so maybe it's simply your way of
presenting your case.

No, Ian, I am not mistaking Jeff for somebody else. This isn't the
first time he's done this. Check back through the groups - he regularly
contradicts people in this newsgroup. And he's always shown to be wrong.


I wouldn't bother Ian, Jerry just lies to suit himself, this thread is
the first time I have posted into rec.radio.amateur.homebrew, due to the
cross posting, (a check of the archives will bear this out) and you know
my history and correctness in UKRA!!!!

Jerry is just a troll and a liar who attempts to denigrate anyone who
disagrees with him, as you found out.

Now who does that remind you of?

Jeff

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 6/23/2014 11:06 AM, Jeff wrote:

Jerry, I really do think that you are mistaking Jeff for somebody else.
Mind you, ISTR that you also called me a troll simply for (in all
innocence) failing to agree with you, so maybe it's simply your way of
presenting your case.

No, Ian, I am not mistaking Jeff for somebody else. This isn't the
first time he's done this. Check back through the groups - he regularly
contradicts people in this newsgroup. And he's always shown to be wrong.


I wouldn't bother Ian, Jerry just lies to suit himself, this thread is
the first time I have posted into rec.radio.amateur.homebrew, due to the
cross posting, (a check of the archives will bear this out) and you know
my history and correctness in UKRA!!!!

Jerry is just a troll and a liar who attempts to denigrate anyone who
disagrees with him, as you found out.

Now who does that remind you of?

Jeff

And the troll can't even be bothered to check the link I posted -
because it proves him wrong! But the facts aren't important. Trying to
prove me wrong is all that matters to him.

And no, I never claimed you posted in r.r.a.h. But you HAVE posted in
u.r.a., multiple times. And you're a well-known troll.

I guess that's why you won't use your real name, a valid email address
or your call sign (you probably don't even have one). That's pretty
typical of trolls - they want to remain anonymous.


--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Easy-peasy SMD construction
 

On 20/06/14 08:54, Brian Reay wrote:
Michael Black wrote:


I seem to recall from early articles about surface mount the suggestion
of using a dab of flux to hold the component in place. It was only to
hold it until you actually had something soldered.

That said, I really think a good magnifiying glass or microscope makes
sense. I was trying to figure out something, and got out the jeweller's
loupe, and it's amazing how much bigger everything is. That's not going
to work for soldering, but getting good magnification that will stand on
its own is bound to help a lot. And good lighting. Looking at that board
with the loupe almost makes the idea of soldering surface mount within my capability.

Michael,

For SMD projects, rather than repairs, you can use a domestic oven to
solder the boards. Ideally, get a small table top model (the type of thing
student or caravaners use) but I did a test run in a full sized kitchen
one. The key thing is to be able to get to 230C or so at least.

You need to plot a graph of the way the oven temp rises using a
thermocouple (I borrowed one but they are cheap enough to buy). Basically
you put the board it with all the components held in place by solder paste.
Set the temp to about 200C and watch as it rises. When it gets to 100, turn
oven off for 3 min, this is known as drying time and is to drive the
solvent from the solder paste, them set temp to 250 or as high as you can
if lower. Now watch carefully, as soon as the solder paste melts and flows
to make the joints, turn off the oven and open the door.

I've tried this a couple of times and the results are surprisingly good. No
dry joints, no moved components.

The graph will help you predict when things are about to 'happen' and the
thermocouple is essential if your oven temp. gauge isn't accurate.

A fellow ham repaired a road kill laptop using a counter top pizza grill
using using this method after hearing it on a podcast. It cured bad
joints under a graphics device. I installed Linux Mint for him and it
was good to go. You can also use a heat lamp over the IC for ball grid
arrays.

A Raspberry Pi could be programmed to control a counter top pizza grill
to give the correct profile. Modify the grill to vent in cool air with a
fan at the end of the cycle to cool the board down.