| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
The Arc of Action
A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist
articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?) |
Quote:
How about keeping the key turned 180° (facing away from you)?! 73, Nandu. |
The Arc of Action
"vu2nan" wrote in message
... gareth;821995 Wrote: A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?) How about keeping the key turned 180° (facing away from you)?! That thought did occur to me in bed last night. The main difficulty would be in needing a special-purpose table with an indentation to hold the Morse key so that one's forearm remained flat on the table. However, such an arrangement would solve the "glass arm" form of RSI because one's wrist would not be turned up at an awkward angle to grasp the knob, so that the point of contact of the thumb and finger would be level. I took such an approach a couple of years ago when making my ersatz vibroplex, by having a downward right angle bend for the paddles, you keyed horizontally. |
Hi OM Gareth.
Or the key should be below the table-top with only the knob projecting out! 73, Nandu. |
The Arc of Action
"vu2nan" wrote in message
... gareth;822016 Wrote: "vu2nan" wrote in message ...- gareth;821995 Wrote:- A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?)- How about keeping the key turned 180° (facing away from you)?! - That thought did occur to me in bed last night. The main difficulty would be in needing a special-purpose table with an indentation...............by having a downward right angle bend for the paddles, you keyed horizontally. Hi OM Gareth. Or the key should be below the table-top with only the knob projecting out! Yes, the knob protrudes, but the skirt of the knob is flush. |
The Arc of Action
On Sat, 19 Jul 2014, gareth wrote:
A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?) I seem to recall paddles that did nothing, ie it was a key that went side to side, but no automatic sending of dots (like on a bug) or dots and dashes (like on a keyer). I think there was a period when such things existed, I don't think it's even considered in more recent times. Why not just a pushbutton? Then you can just move your finger, no need for the whole wrist to move. I was going to say keys had to be as they are because they handled large current in the early days of radio, but the form of the key relates to the telegraph, and that wasn't high current. Michael |
The Arc of Action
"Michael Black" wrote in message
xample.org... Why not just a pushbutton? You're not a Morse man, then? |
The Arc of Action
On 19/07/2014 22:15, gareth wrote:
A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Your key contacts must be too wide apart if you are able to perceive your wrist following an arc. |
The Arc of Action
On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 22:15:48 +0100, "gareth"
wrote: A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?) When I think of a wrist following an arc repetitively why am I reminded of OSN? |
The Arc of Action
"Rambo" wrote in message
... On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 22:15:48 +0100, "gareth" wrote: A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?) When I think of a wrist following an arc repetitively why am I reminded of OSN? For shame, OM! Brian has some very endearing features, of that I am very sure, although in his twelve years of contributing to this NG, I have yet to encounter them. |
The Arc of Action
On 7/21/2014 5:09 AM, gareth wrote:
"Michael Black" wrote in message xample.org... Why not just a pushbutton? You're not a Morse man, then? It's obvious YOU aren't! Properly adjusted, you should have little or no wrist movement. And even if you do, the fact your hand and the key move on different fulcrums is immaterial. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry, AI0K ================== |
The Arc of Action
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
... On 7/21/2014 5:09 AM, gareth wrote: "Michael Black" wrote in message xample.org... Why not just a pushbutton? You're not a Morse man, then? It's obvious YOU aren't! Properly adjusted, you should have little or no wrist movement. And even if you do, the fact your hand and the key move on different fulcrums is immaterial. From your previous Childish Broadcasting (CB) into these NG, it was inevitable that you would not have the mental capacity to recognise, and partake in, a philosophical discussion for the edification of _REAL_ radio amateurs. |
The Arc of Action
On 7/21/2014 9:57 AM, gareth wrote:
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... On 7/21/2014 5:09 AM, gareth wrote: "Michael Black" wrote in message xample.org... Why not just a pushbutton? You're not a Morse man, then? It's obvious YOU aren't! Properly adjusted, you should have little or no wrist movement. And even if you do, the fact your hand and the key move on different fulcrums is immaterial. From your previous Childish Broadcasting (CB) into these NG, it was inevitable that you would not have the mental capacity to recognise, and partake in, a philosophical discussion for the edification of _REAL_ radio amateurs. ROFLMAO! You're just as stoopid as the newspaper articles show you to be. No wonder the judge wouldn't let you waste the court's time with your tripe. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry, AI0K ================== |
The Arc of Action
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
... ROFLMAO! You're just as stoopid as the newspaper articles show you to be. No wonder the judge wouldn't let you waste the court's time with your tripe. Well, as suspected, your interjection into these threads owed more to your needing attantion in an infantile manner than it did to your contributing discourse in the manner of an adult. Shame on you. High time that you grew up, there, OM. |
The Arc of Action
"Rambo" wrote in message
... On Sat, 19 Jul 2014 22:15:48 +0100, "gareth" wrote: A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?) When I think of a wrist following an arc repetitively why am I reminded of OSN? Talking of old and useless artifacts, have you tired of your Racal 1792 yet and are ready to bin it in my direction? :-) |
The Arc of Action
On 7/21/2014 10:11 AM, gareth wrote:
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... ROFLMAO! You're just as stoopid as the newspaper articles show you to be. No wonder the judge wouldn't let you waste the court's time with your tripe. Well, as suspected, your interjection into these threads owed more to your needing attantion in an infantile manner than it did to your contributing discourse in the manner of an adult. Shame on you. High time that you grew up, there, OM. So says the idiot who got shut up by the judge for his infantile behavior. And who feels the need to show his stoopidity in so many threads here. But then the stoopid never do recognize themselves. Time to go back to your CB buddies. Because in a battle of intellects, you are defenseless. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle ================== |
The Arc of Action
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
... On 7/21/2014 10:11 AM, gareth wrote: "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... ROFLMAO! You're just as stoopid as the newspaper articles show you to be. No wonder the judge wouldn't let you waste the court's time with your tripe. Well, as suspected, your interjection into these threads owed more to your needing attantion in an infantile manner than it did to your contributing discourse in the manner of an adult. Shame on you. High time that you grew up, there, OM. So says the idiot who got shut up by the judge for his infantile behavior. And who feels the need to show his stoopidity in so many threads here. But then the stoopid never do recognize themselves. Time to go back to your CB buddies. Because in a battle of intellects, you are defenseless. "Well, as suspected, your interjection into these threads owed more to your needing attantion in an infantile manner than it did to your contributing discourse in the manner of an adult." QED |
The Arc of Action
On 7/21/2014 11:43 AM, gareth wrote:
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... On 7/21/2014 10:11 AM, gareth wrote: "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... ROFLMAO! You're just as stoopid as the newspaper articles show you to be. No wonder the judge wouldn't let you waste the court's time with your tripe. Well, as suspected, your interjection into these threads owed more to your needing attantion in an infantile manner than it did to your contributing discourse in the manner of an adult. Shame on you. High time that you grew up, there, OM. So says the idiot who got shut up by the judge for his infantile behavior. And who feels the need to show his stoopidity in so many threads here. But then the stoopid never do recognize themselves. Time to go back to your CB buddies. Because in a battle of intellects, you are defenseless. "Well, as suspected, your interjection into these threads owed more to your needing attantion in an infantile manner than it did to your contributing discourse in the manner of an adult." QED ROFLMAO! You obviously are too stoopid to come up with something original, so you cut and paste someone else's comments (they certainly aren't your own - you're not that creative). In a battle of intellects, you are defenseless. No wonder the judge stopped you from wasting the court's time! -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry, AI0K ================== |
The Arc of Action
On 7/20/2014 3:31 PM, gareth wrote:
"vu2nan" wrote in message ... gareth;822016 Wrote: "vu2nan" wrote in message ...- gareth;821995 Wrote:- A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?)- How about keeping the key turned 180° (facing away from you)?! - That thought did occur to me in bed last night. The main difficulty would be in needing a special-purpose table with an indentation...............by having a downward right angle bend for the paddles, you keyed horizontally. Hi OM Gareth. Or the key should be below the table-top with only the knob projecting out! Yes, the knob protrudes, but the skirt of the knob is flush. I can't see how the arc of the key is important. The key only moves a tiny amount and the arc is very small with a miniscule perpendicular movement. The issue of the key being above the table is a different matter. This could be handled without making holes in the table. A good key only moves a tiny amount. The key can be curved so the actual key can be just a small paddle a few mm above the table top. Or the user can use a wrist rest to elevate the wrist. ====O=====+ / \ | / \ +----- -- Key "knob" ==================== Table Does this make sense? -- Rick |
The Arc of Action
On 7/21/2014 1:45 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 7/21/2014 11:43 AM, gareth wrote: "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... On 7/21/2014 10:11 AM, gareth wrote: "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... ROFLMAO! You're just as stoopid as the newspaper articles show you to be. No wonder the judge wouldn't let you waste the court's time with your tripe. Well, as suspected, your interjection into these threads owed more to your needing attantion in an infantile manner than it did to your contributing discourse in the manner of an adult. Shame on you. High time that you grew up, there, OM. So says the idiot who got shut up by the judge for his infantile behavior. And who feels the need to show his stoopidity in so many threads here. But then the stoopid never do recognize themselves. Time to go back to your CB buddies. Because in a battle of intellects, you are defenseless. "Well, as suspected, your interjection into these threads owed more to your needing attantion in an infantile manner than it did to your contributing discourse in the manner of an adult." QED ROFLMAO! You obviously are too stoopid to come up with something original, so you cut and paste someone else's comments (they certainly aren't your own - you're not that creative). In a battle of intellects, you are defenseless. No wonder the judge stopped you from wasting the court's time! I thought s.e.d was bad but you guys are on a roll. Can you both just stop the nonsense for a while maybe? -- Rick |
The Arc of Action
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:42:31 -0400, rickman wrote:
I thought s.e.d was bad but you guys are on a roll. Can you both just stop the nonsense for a while maybe? How very dare you! Gareth is a polymath! He does *_Not_* post "nonsense"! |
The Arc of Action
On 7/21/2014 5:54 PM, Clod's Conscience wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:42:31 -0400, rickman wrote: I thought s.e.d was bad but you guys are on a roll. Can you both just stop the nonsense for a while maybe? How very dare you! Gareth is a polymath! He does *_Not_* post "nonsense"! Hmmmm... When I read this I keep expecting a smiley at the end, but I don't see it. I just can't believe someone would post this statement without a tongue in their cheek. :) -- Rick |
The Arc of Action
On 7/21/2014 6:26 PM, gareth wrote:
"rickman" wrote in message ... On 7/20/2014 3:31 PM, gareth wrote: "vu2nan" wrote in message ... gareth;822016 Wrote: "vu2nan" wrote in message ...- gareth;821995 Wrote:- A straight Morse key has a fulcrum away from you, but your wrist articulates in front of the key, in a mirror image of that of the key. Therefore, your wrist is constrained to follow an unnatural arc when keying. Have there been any mechanical designs published so that the keying arc is in the same sense as the wrist arc? (cf. Watts' parallel motion, perhaps?)- How about keeping the key turned 180° (facing away from you)?! That thought did occur to me in bed last night. The main difficulty would be in needing a special-purpose table with an indentation...............by having a downward right angle bend for the paddles, you keyed horizontally. Hi OM Gareth. Or the key should be below the table-top with only the knob projecting out! Yes, the knob protrudes, but the skirt of the knob is flush. I can't see how the arc of the key is important. Then you have not grasped the point of the discussion. Gareth, I typed a fair amount explaining my rational (which you snipped). If all you can say is, "you have not grasped...", then you are a pretty poor conversationalist. Someone else made the same point that the range of motion is so small that the center of motion is not really very important. Key Arm Hand --o------------------------) (-------------------------o-- With a very small range of movement at the point of contact there is no real problem with stress. One thing I believe has not been pointed out is that the fingers are part of the link and their multiple joints act to isolate the wrist from the exact motion of the button. In other words, you are discussing a problem that doesn't exist in regards to the arc of the button. |------- Finger ------|--Hand--| --o--------------------) (------o-------o-------o--------o-- If you want to discuss this, then please don't be condescending. Instead, say something useful please. -- Rick |
The Arc of Action
On 7/21/2014 5:54 PM, Clod's Conscience wrote:
On Mon, 21 Jul 2014 17:42:31 -0400, rickman wrote: I thought s.e.d was bad but you guys are on a roll. Can you both just stop the nonsense for a while maybe? How very dare you! Gareth is a polymath! He does *_Not_* post "nonsense"! No, not a polymath. Polytroll is more like it. Polystoopid describes him exactly! -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle ================== |
The Arc of Action
"rickman" wrote in message
... Hmmmm... When I read this I keep expecting a smiley at the end, but I don't see it. I just can't believe someone would post this statement without a tongue in their cheek. :) What was that you were saying that would Stuckle and I cool it? |
The Arc of Action
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
... No, not a polymath. Polytroll is more like it. Polystoopid describes him exactly! It remains that I have to continue to play the role of the patient schoolteacher dealing with you as the disruptive infant in the kindergarten school. |
The Arc of Action
"rickman" wrote in message
... On 7/21/2014 6:26 PM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... Yes, the knob protrudes, but the skirt of the knob is flush. I can't see how the arc of the key is important. Then you have not grasped the point of the discussion. Gareth, I typed a fair amount explaining my rational (which you snipped). Because it added nothing further. |
The Arc of Action
On 7/22/2014 2:03 AM, gareth wrote:
"rickman" wrote in message ... On 7/21/2014 6:26 PM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... Yes, the knob protrudes, but the skirt of the knob is flush. I can't see how the arc of the key is important. Then you have not grasped the point of the discussion. Gareth, I typed a fair amount explaining my rational (which you snipped). Because it added nothing further. Ok, when you wish to have a discussion, let me know. -- Rick |
The Arc of Action
"rickman" wrote in message
... On 7/22/2014 2:03 AM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... On 7/21/2014 6:26 PM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... Yes, the knob protrudes, but the skirt of the knob is flush. I can't see how the arc of the key is important. Then you have not grasped the point of the discussion. Gareth, I typed a fair amount explaining my rational (which you snipped). Because it added nothing further. Ok, when you wish to have a discussion, let me know. Well, I was. But you were off on a different tack. |
The Arc of Action
On 7/22/2014 4:20 AM, gareth wrote:
"rickman" wrote in message ... On 7/22/2014 2:03 AM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... On 7/21/2014 6:26 PM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... Yes, the knob protrudes, but the skirt of the knob is flush. I can't see how the arc of the key is important. Then you have not grasped the point of the discussion. Gareth, I typed a fair amount explaining my rational (which you snipped). Because it added nothing further. Ok, when you wish to have a discussion, let me know. Well, I was. But you were off on a different tack. I am beginning to understand why you get a lot of flack here. If you aren't interested in discussing the topic, why do you keep responding? I am beginning to think you truly can't help yourself. Here is another chance to discuss the topic. The movement of the end of the finger along the arc of the key does not need to be the same curve as the movement of the wrist because the finger provides compliance by bending at the other three joints, plus, the difference of movement of the two arcs is so miniscule, that it does not cause a problem in the first place. My father operated a telegraph key in his job as well as most of the people he worked with. None of them ever reported any sort of repetitive motion injury. BTW, I have the brass key he used. :) -- Rick |
The Arc of Action
"rickman" wrote in message
... I am beginning to understand why you get a lot of flack here. If you aren't interested in discussing the topic, why do you keep responding? I am beginning to think you truly can't help yourself. Well, there you go again with the same bad behaviour for which you criticised Stuckle. |
The Arc of Action
On 7/22/2014 4:27 AM, rickman wrote:
On 7/22/2014 4:20 AM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... On 7/22/2014 2:03 AM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... On 7/21/2014 6:26 PM, gareth wrote: "rickman" wrote in message ... Yes, the knob protrudes, but the skirt of the knob is flush. I can't see how the arc of the key is important. Then you have not grasped the point of the discussion. Gareth, I typed a fair amount explaining my rational (which you snipped). Because it added nothing further. Ok, when you wish to have a discussion, let me know. Well, I was. But you were off on a different tack. I am beginning to understand why you get a lot of flack here. If you aren't interested in discussing the topic, why do you keep responding? I am beginning to think you truly can't help yourself. Here is another chance to discuss the topic. The movement of the end of the finger along the arc of the key does not need to be the same curve as the movement of the wrist because the finger provides compliance by bending at the other three joints, plus, the difference of movement of the two arcs is so miniscule, that it does not cause a problem in the first place. My father operated a telegraph key in his job as well as most of the people he worked with. None of them ever reported any sort of repetitive motion injury. BTW, I have the brass key he used. :) Rick, His problem is he couldn't understand what you said, so it added nothing to the conversation *for him*. I thought your explanation was quite detailed and eloquent. Too bad the troll isn't smart enough to understand it. But then that's pretty typical for him. He does it regularly. And I see he couldn't understand this explanation, either. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry, AI0K ================== |
The Arc of Action
On 7/22/2014 1:58 AM, gareth wrote:
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... No, not a polymath. Polytroll is more like it. Polystoopid describes him exactly! It remains that I have to continue to play the role of the patient schoolteacher dealing with you as the disruptive infant in the kindergarten school. It remains you have to continue to troll because you can't find an audience anywhere else. Why don't you go back to your CB friends? Or won't they talk to you any more, either? -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry, AI0K ================== |
The Arc of Action
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
... "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... No, not a polymath. Polytroll is more like it. Polystoopid describes him exactly! It remains you have to continue to troll because you can't find an audience anywhere else. Why don't you go back to your CB friends? Or won't they talk to you any more, either? It remains that I have to continue to play the role of the patient schoolteacher dealing with you as the disruptive infant in the kindergarten school. |
The Arc of Action
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
... His problem is he couldn't understand what you said, so it added nothing to the conversation *for him*. I thought your explanation was quite detailed and eloquent. Too bad the troll isn't smart enough to understand it. But then that's pretty typical for him. He does it regularly. And I see he couldn't understand this explanation, either. It remains that I have to continue to play the role of the patient schoolteacher dealing with you as the disruptive infant in the kindergarten school. |
The Arc of Action
On 7/22/2014 10:07 AM, gareth wrote:
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... His problem is he couldn't understand what you said, so it added nothing to the conversation *for him*. I thought your explanation was quite detailed and eloquent. Too bad the troll isn't smart enough to understand it. But then that's pretty typical for him. He does it regularly. And I see he couldn't understand this explanation, either. It remains that I have to continue to play the role of the patient schoolteacher dealing with you as the disruptive infant in the kindergarten school. Ah, yes, the troll has to pop in even when no one is replying to him! Go back to your CB buddies. Or won't they talk to you any more, either? -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle ================== |
The Arc of Action
On 7/22/2014 10:05 AM, gareth wrote:
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... No, not a polymath. Polytroll is more like it. Polystoopid describes him exactly! It remains you have to continue to troll because you can't find an audience anywhere else. Why don't you go back to your CB friends? Or won't they talk to you any more, either? It remains that I have to continue to play the role of the patient schoolteacher dealing with you as the disruptive infant in the kindergarten school. Just like you "played the role of the patient schoolteacher" with the judge? Got you shut up real quick, didn't it? Keep repeating it and you might actually start believing it! But no one else here will. Why don't you go back to your CB buddies? Or won't they talk to you any more, either? -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry Stuckle ================== |
The Arc of Action
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
... "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... No, not a polymath. Polytroll is more like it. Polystoopid describes him exactly! It remains you have to continue to troll because you can't find an audience anywhere else. Why don't you go back to your CB friends? Or won't they talk to you any more, either? Just like you "played the role of the patient schoolteacher" with the judge? Got you shut up real quick, didn't it? Keep repeating it and you might actually start believing it! But no one else here will. Why don't you go back to your CB buddies? Or won't they talk to you any more, either? It remains that I have to continue to play the role of the patient schoolteacher dealing with you as the disruptive infant in the kindergarten school. You seem intent on shouting out infantile abusive remarks at every turn. It does not reflect very well on your character. Shame on you. |
The Arc of Action
"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
... "Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message ... His problem is he couldn't understand what you said, so it added nothing to the conversation *for him*. I thought your explanation was quite detailed and eloquent. Too bad the troll isn't smart enough to understand it. But then that's pretty typical for him. He does it regularly. And I see he couldn't understand this explanation, either. Ah, yes, the troll has to pop in even when no one is replying to him! Go back to your CB buddies. Or won't they talk to you any more, either? It remains that I have to continue to play the role of the patient schoolteacher dealing with you as the disruptive infant in the kindergarten school. You seem intent on shouting out infantile abusive remarks at every turn. It does not reflect very well on your character. Shame on you. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:40 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
RadioBanter.com