On 2 Sep 2003 20:44:40 GMT, nobody wrote:

In wrote:

But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.

Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

And what if both burn out in parallel, which they eventually will -
and eventually is measured in months or, at best a low number of
years.
With the series string, if one blows it will likely be a decade or 2
or 3.

In article , Stepan
Novotill wrote:

A diode, ballast, or capacitor in series with each lamp would be

That would have been the proper solution. There are these little
buttons you stick to the tip of the screw-base of the bulb.

You then screw this entire thing into the socket. It's called a "bulb
saver" and is essentially a tiny diode in series that chops the
voltage across the bulb in half.

I assume the bulb bases for these exit lights are much smaller than
Edison based household bulbs (intermediate base perhaps?) and the
bulb savers I've seen are only for Edison sockets.

I think some EXIT lamp manufacturers were also selling LED retrofit
kits for some of these lights.

Also, door slamming and vibration could have been a partial reason for
premature lamp failure.

But now we're getting WAAYYYYYY off topic here.

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

In article , Stepan
Novotill wrote:

A diode, ballast, or capacitor in series with each lamp would be

That would have been the proper solution. There are these little
buttons you stick to the tip of the screw-base of the bulb.

You then screw this entire thing into the socket. It's called a "bulb
saver" and is essentially a tiny diode in series that chops the
voltage across the bulb in half.

I assume the bulb bases for these exit lights are much smaller than
Edison based household bulbs (intermediate base perhaps?) and the
bulb savers I've seen are only for Edison sockets.

I think some EXIT lamp manufacturers were also selling LED retrofit
kits for some of these lights.

Also, door slamming and vibration could have been a partial reason for
premature lamp failure.

But now we're getting WAAYYYYYY off topic here.

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

nobody wrote:

In wrote:

But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.

Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

Thanks for the congratulations! Regarding safety: there are 6 exit
lights, which had to be re-lamped 3 - 4 times per year. So the new
wiring saved 25 (years) x 6 (lights) x 3.5 (relampings per year)
or 525 trips up and down the ladder. It also kept hands and fingers
out of electrically hot fixtures 525 times. Those fixtures are
required to be on 24x7 - the only way to turn them off is at the
breaker. So it saved 525 flips of the breaker - or more likely, it
saved 525 instances of fingers inside a fixture that was electrically
hot, human nature being what it is. The need for re-painting has
also been reduced (more ladder climbing), but I cannot quantify
that. With the old wiring, the wall and ceiling above the exit
signs used to get dirty a lot sooner than it does now.

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

nobody wrote:

In wrote:

But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.

Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

Thanks for the congratulations! Regarding safety: there are 6 exit
lights, which had to be re-lamped 3 - 4 times per year. So the new
wiring saved 25 (years) x 6 (lights) x 3.5 (relampings per year)
or 525 trips up and down the ladder. It also kept hands and fingers
out of electrically hot fixtures 525 times. Those fixtures are
required to be on 24x7 - the only way to turn them off is at the
breaker. So it saved 525 flips of the breaker - or more likely, it
saved 525 instances of fingers inside a fixture that was electrically
hot, human nature being what it is. The need for re-painting has
also been reduced (more ladder climbing), but I cannot quantify
that. With the old wiring, the wall and ceiling above the exit
signs used to get dirty a lot sooner than it does now.

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
Tara Morice as Fran, from the movie "Strictly Ballroom"

wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
Tara Morice as Fran, from the movie "Strictly Ballroom"

Putting the bulbs in series seems to qualify as an improvement.
Perhaps that would not hold up in court, but we all know the law is an
ass.

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:37:43 GMT, Jeffrey D Angus
wrote:



wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff

Putting the bulbs in series seems to qualify as an improvement.
Perhaps that would not hold up in court, but we all know the law is an
ass.

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:37:43 GMT, Jeffrey D Angus
wrote:



wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff

that would be nice ,let the shcools burn down.

The way education is going its better to BBQ....


"Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message
.. .


wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
Tara Morice as Fran, from the movie "Strictly Ballroom"

that would be nice ,let the shcools burn down.

The way education is going its better to BBQ....


"Jeffrey D Angus" wrote in message
.. .


wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff

--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
Tara Morice as Fran, from the movie "Strictly Ballroom"

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 02:28:32 GMT, the renowned (Sven
Franklyn Weil) wrote:

You then screw this entire thing into the socket. It's called a "bulb
saver" and is essentially a tiny diode in series that chops the
voltage across the bulb in half.
snip

The RMS voltage across the bulb is reduced by ~29%.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 02:28:32 GMT, the renowned (Sven
Franklyn Weil) wrote:

You then screw this entire thing into the socket. It's called a "bulb
saver" and is essentially a tiny diode in series that chops the
voltage across the bulb in half.
snip

The RMS voltage across the bulb is reduced by ~29%.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

In article ,
mentioned...


nobody wrote:

In wrote:


But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.


Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

But if he'd have left them in parallel, they most certainly would have
both burned out long ago! :-p

Cheers,
Fred


I gotta tell you what happened at work last week. The head of
security came over and told us that someone had complained that one of
our tables was blocking the door (it's a temporary setup). The head
of registration told him that she put it there to keep the students
from leaving. The security guy says, but that's an emergency exit,
see that sign up there?

So she says, oh, ok. Well, then, can we move the sign?

:-)))


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...


nobody wrote:

In wrote:


But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.


Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

But if he'd have left them in parallel, they most certainly would have
both burned out long ago! :-p

Cheers,
Fred


I gotta tell you what happened at work last week. The head of
security came over and told us that someone had complained that one of
our tables was blocking the door (it's a temporary setup). The head
of registration told him that she put it there to keep the students
from leaving. The security guy says, but that's an emergency exit,
see that sign up there?

So she says, oh, ok. Well, then, can we move the sign?

:-)))


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 02:28:32 GMT, the renowned (Sven
Franklyn Weil) wrote:

You then screw this entire thing into the socket. It's called a "bulb
saver" and is essentially a tiny diode in series that chops the
voltage across the bulb in half.
snip

The RMS voltage across the bulb is reduced by ~29%.

Ooh, DejaVu, I think we've had this discussion before...

The bulb savers that I used back in the '70s were varistors. They
slowed down the turn-on of the light. They were low resistance when
warm, and high when cold. There was no diode.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 02:28:32 GMT, the renowned (Sven
Franklyn Weil) wrote:

You then screw this entire thing into the socket. It's called a "bulb
saver" and is essentially a tiny diode in series that chops the
voltage across the bulb in half.
snip

The RMS voltage across the bulb is reduced by ~29%.

Ooh, DejaVu, I think we've had this discussion before...

The bulb savers that I used back in the '70s were varistors. They
slowed down the turn-on of the light. They were low resistance when
warm, and high when cold. There was no diode.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...


nobody wrote:

In wrote:

But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.

Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

Thanks for the congratulations! Regarding safety: there are 6 exit
lights, which had to be re-lamped 3 - 4 times per year. So the new
wiring saved 25 (years) x 6 (lights) x 3.5 (relampings per year)
or 525 trips up and down the ladder. It also kept hands and fingers
out of electrically hot fixtures 525 times. Those fixtures are
required to be on 24x7 - the only way to turn them off is at the
breaker. So it saved 525 flips of the breaker - or more likely, it
saved 525 instances of fingers inside a fixture that was electrically
hot, human nature being what it is. The need for re-painting has
also been reduced (more ladder climbing), but I cannot quantify
that. With the old wiring, the wall and ceiling above the exit
signs used to get dirty a lot sooner than it does now.

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

Neither. Nowadays they put the exit signs down low, because the
rising smoke from the fire fills up the rooms and the exit signs can't
be seen. :-(

Hey, I agree with you. But instead, I would have used higher voltage
lamps, two in parallel. Decent LEDs were hard to get back in the
'70s. Another solution might be to use neon lamps.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...


nobody wrote:

In wrote:

But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.

Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

Thanks for the congratulations! Regarding safety: there are 6 exit
lights, which had to be re-lamped 3 - 4 times per year. So the new
wiring saved 25 (years) x 6 (lights) x 3.5 (relampings per year)
or 525 trips up and down the ladder. It also kept hands and fingers
out of electrically hot fixtures 525 times. Those fixtures are
required to be on 24x7 - the only way to turn them off is at the
breaker. So it saved 525 flips of the breaker - or more likely, it
saved 525 instances of fingers inside a fixture that was electrically
hot, human nature being what it is. The need for re-painting has
also been reduced (more ladder climbing), but I cannot quantify
that. With the old wiring, the wall and ceiling above the exit
signs used to get dirty a lot sooner than it does now.

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

Neither. Nowadays they put the exit signs down low, because the
rising smoke from the fire fills up the rooms and the exit signs can't
be seen. :-(

Hey, I agree with you. But instead, I would have used higher voltage
lamps, two in parallel. Decent LEDs were hard to get back in the
'70s. Another solution might be to use neon lamps.


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...


wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff

I dunno about where you live, but I believe Calif. state law requires
that sprinklers be installed, so the school board has no choice. And
even if there was no law, the school board would have to submit the
building or remodeling plans for approval to the state board of
education, and that would be the end of it. If it didn't meet their
approval, it would be sent back to the architect for additions or
changes.

The fire chief told us that the architect did something really stupid.
They spec'd that sprinklers be installed in our computer room, which
is protected by a 'halon' system. So if there's a fire, all the
equipment gets water damaged. Stoopid. But the sprinklers are there,
just in case..


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...


wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff

I dunno about where you live, but I believe Calif. state law requires
that sprinklers be installed, so the school board has no choice. And
even if there was no law, the school board would have to submit the
building or remodeling plans for approval to the state board of
education, and that would be the end of it. If it didn't meet their
approval, it would be sent back to the architect for additions or
changes.

The fire chief told us that the architect did something really stupid.
They spec'd that sprinklers be installed in our computer room, which
is protected by a 'halon' system. So if there's a fire, all the
equipment gets water damaged. Stoopid. But the sprinklers are there,
just in case..


--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...
Putting the bulbs in series seems to qualify as an improvement.
Perhaps that would not hold up in court, but we all know the law is an
ass.

No, the law _is_ the law. How the idiot lawyers and judges interpret
it is another matter. Not a subject for discussion here, tho.


On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:37:43 GMT, Jeffrey D Angus
wrote:



wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff



--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

In article ,
mentioned...
Putting the bulbs in series seems to qualify as an improvement.
Perhaps that would not hold up in court, but we all know the law is an
ass.

No, the law _is_ the law. How the idiot lawyers and judges interpret
it is another matter. Not a subject for discussion here, tho.


On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 03:37:43 GMT, Jeffrey D Angus
wrote:



wrote:
[ snip ]

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

That's the same logic that dictates about how much money the
school board can save by NOT installing fire sprinklers in a
school building.

Jeff



--
@@F@r@o@m@@O@r@a@n@g@e@@C@o@u@n@t@y@,@@C@a@l@,@@w@ h@e@r@e@@
###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS? Check HERE First:###
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/e...s/databank.htm
My email address is whitelisted. *All* email sent to it
goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the
Subject: line with other stuff. alondra101 at hotmail.com
Don't be ripped off by the big book dealers. Go to the URL
that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half).
http://www.everybookstore.com You'll be glad you did!
Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov't
changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html
@@t@h@e@@a@f@f@l@u@e@n@t@@m@e@e@t@@t@h@e@@E@f@f@l@ u@e@n@t@@

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:31:59 -0700, the renowned Watson A.Name - "Watt
Sun" wrote:

In article ,
mentioned...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 02:28:32 GMT, the renowned (Sven
Franklyn Weil) wrote:

You then screw this entire thing into the socket. It's called a "bulb
saver" and is essentially a tiny diode in series that chops the
voltage across the bulb in half.
snip

The RMS voltage across the bulb is reduced by ~29%.

Ooh, DejaVu, I think we've had this discussion before...

It's like the UL about pulsing LEDs to get more brightness, it just
keeps coming around.

The bulb savers that I used back in the '70s were varistors. They
slowed down the turn-on of the light. They were low resistance when
warm, and high when cold. There was no diode.

I've seen the diodes, not the varistors. But I have no doubt you're
right. Probably very similar to the inrush limiters used on PC power
supplies, minus the leads.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 03:31:59 -0700, the renowned Watson A.Name - "Watt
Sun" wrote:

In article ,
mentioned...
On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 02:28:32 GMT, the renowned (Sven
Franklyn Weil) wrote:

You then screw this entire thing into the socket. It's called a "bulb
saver" and is essentially a tiny diode in series that chops the
voltage across the bulb in half.
snip

The RMS voltage across the bulb is reduced by ~29%.

Ooh, DejaVu, I think we've had this discussion before...

It's like the UL about pulsing LEDs to get more brightness, it just
keeps coming around.

The bulb savers that I used back in the '70s were varistors. They
slowed down the turn-on of the light. They were low resistance when
warm, and high when cold. There was no diode.

I've seen the diodes, not the varistors. But I have no doubt you're
right. Probably very similar to the inrush limiters used on PC power
supplies, minus the leads.

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On 3/9/03 20:27, in article ,
"Watt Sun Watson A.Name -" wrote:

I gotta tell you what happened at work last week. The head of
security came over and told us that someone had complained that one of
our tables was blocking the door (it's a temporary setup). The head
of registration told him that she put it there to keep the students
from leaving. The security guy says, but that's an emergency exit,
see that sign up there?

So she says, oh, ok. Well, then, can we move the sign?

Sounds like when I was going to Drexel - for 12 years!


--
Robert Morein.

Failed 50 year old loser student.
Failed Temple University
Ejected from Grad program after seven years
Ejected from Drexel University after dissertation judged "bull**** nonsense"
Sued Drexel and Lost
Even took it to the Supreme Court, but they laughed at me!
But I get even with studentsandthelaw.org my harassment site.
My poor jew mother Jane Morein died with a broken heart, watching this
poor twisted loser fail at everything I've ever done.
Daddy Sylvan Morein, who studied hard and became a fair to middlin' dentist,
is now stuck at home with his loser son; unwanted by life or any of the
relatives.
But I've discovered at last my calling: INTERNET WACKO!



Man, am I a Loser!

On 3/9/03 20:27, in article ,
"Watt Sun Watson A.Name -" wrote:

I gotta tell you what happened at work last week. The head of
security came over and told us that someone had complained that one of
our tables was blocking the door (it's a temporary setup). The head
of registration told him that she put it there to keep the students
from leaving. The security guy says, but that's an emergency exit,
see that sign up there?

So she says, oh, ok. Well, then, can we move the sign?

Sounds like when I was going to Drexel - for 12 years!


--
Robert Morein.

Failed 50 year old loser student.
Failed Temple University
Ejected from Grad program after seven years
Ejected from Drexel University after dissertation judged "bull**** nonsense"
Sued Drexel and Lost
Even took it to the Supreme Court, but they laughed at me!
But I get even with studentsandthelaw.org my harassment site.
My poor jew mother Jane Morein died with a broken heart, watching this
poor twisted loser fail at everything I've ever done.
Daddy Sylvan Morein, who studied hard and became a fair to middlin' dentist,
is now stuck at home with his loser son; unwanted by life or any of the
relatives.
But I've discovered at last my calling: INTERNET WACKO!



Man, am I a Loser!

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:
Hey, I agree with you. But instead, I would have used higher voltage
lamps, two in parallel. Decent LEDs were hard to get back in the
'70s. Another solution might be to use neon lamps.

You mean flourescent lights. neon lamps need a high voltage transformer. :-(
you will not want them for emergency lights, as they are often the cause of
the emergency themselves.
BTW also fluorescent lights have many shortcomings, in a cold
environment(Alaska?) they extinguish and won't start at even moderately cold
temperatures. They need some electronics inside the socket and finally last
not longer than special longlife bulbs, that is 6000h, which is not even 1
year. Of course the efficiency is much higher even if you add the loss of
the electronics (which is usually not accounted for).

Here in my building we have flourescent lights in the emergency lights, but
they are always off and only light up at power loss. They have a 12Ah 12V
gel-battery inside and will power the 5W lamp for not even 24h, not enough
if we have a blackout like in NY. But fortunaterly that has never happened
so far.

ciao Ban
Bordighera,Italy

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:
Hey, I agree with you. But instead, I would have used higher voltage
lamps, two in parallel. Decent LEDs were hard to get back in the
'70s. Another solution might be to use neon lamps.

You mean flourescent lights. neon lamps need a high voltage transformer. :-(
you will not want them for emergency lights, as they are often the cause of
the emergency themselves.
BTW also fluorescent lights have many shortcomings, in a cold
environment(Alaska?) they extinguish and won't start at even moderately cold
temperatures. They need some electronics inside the socket and finally last
not longer than special longlife bulbs, that is 6000h, which is not even 1
year. Of course the efficiency is much higher even if you add the loss of
the electronics (which is usually not accounted for).

Here in my building we have flourescent lights in the emergency lights, but
they are always off and only light up at power loss. They have a 12Ah 12V
gel-battery inside and will power the 5W lamp for not even 24h, not enough
if we have a blackout like in NY. But fortunaterly that has never happened
so far.

ciao Ban
Bordighera,Italy

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:

In article ,
mentioned...


nobody wrote:


In wrote:



But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.


Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

But if he'd have left them in parallel, they most certainly would have
both burned out long ago! :-p

Cheers,
Fred



I gotta tell you what happened at work last week. The head of
security came over and told us that someone had complained that one of
our tables was blocking the door (it's a temporary setup). The head
of registration told him that she put it there to keep the students
from leaving. The security guy says, but that's an emergency exit,
see that sign up there?

So she says, oh, ok. Well, then, can we move the sign?

:-)))

LOL! But hey, makes sense to me. "If Mohammed won't go the the mountain,
the mountain will bloody well just have to come to Mohammed!"

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:

In article ,
mentioned...


nobody wrote:


In wrote:



But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT
lights in the church in series.


Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're in
parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if one
goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

But if he'd have left them in parallel, they most certainly would have
both burned out long ago! :-p

Cheers,
Fred



I gotta tell you what happened at work last week. The head of
security came over and told us that someone had complained that one of
our tables was blocking the door (it's a temporary setup). The head
of registration told him that she put it there to keep the students
from leaving. The security guy says, but that's an emergency exit,
see that sign up there?

So she says, oh, ok. Well, then, can we move the sign?

:-)))

LOL! But hey, makes sense to me. "If Mohammed won't go the the mountain,
the mountain will bloody well just have to come to Mohammed!"

Cheers,
Fred
--
+--------------------------------------------+
| Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
| Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk |
+--------------------------------------------+

My limited experience with a group of exit lights is that they used
special expensive bulbs, but the electric supply place I went to find
replacements suggested some relatively new (at the time) replacements
which had a significantly long life spec. They were (are) neon bulbs as
I remember, and they have lasted many years. Well worth the money.
Exit fixtures have specs on what bulbs are to be used, I think.
Also, as someone stated wrongly about neon bulbs requiring high
voltage, they instead need series R to limit the current. --Phil

nobody wrote:
In wrote:

But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT lights in
the church in series.

Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're
in parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if
one goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

My limited experience with a group of exit lights is that they used
special expensive bulbs, but the electric supply place I went to find
replacements suggested some relatively new (at the time) replacements
which had a significantly long life spec. They were (are) neon bulbs as
I remember, and they have lasted many years. Well worth the money.
Exit fixtures have specs on what bulbs are to be used, I think.
Also, as someone stated wrongly about neon bulbs requiring high
voltage, they instead need series R to limit the current. --Phil

nobody wrote:
In wrote:

But in 1978 I wired the 2 bulbs in the each of the EXIT lights in
the church in series.

Congratulations, you probably bypassed a safety feature. If they're
in parallel, if one burns out the other keeps going. In series, if
one goes they're both out, and the exit sign is no longer visible.

--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

Ehsjr-

You are rationalizing. The need for the light is greatest in the event of a
fire. With two bulbs in series, the resulting light is weaker and harder to
see in dense smoke.

Most of the time you won't have a fire. You could carry your rationalization
further by eliminating the lights and having zero chance of accidental
electrocution or falling from the ladder, and save on the electric bill to
boot.

Good Luck.

Fred

Now with the above facts in mind, which do you think is safer?

Ehsjr-

You are rationalizing. The need for the light is greatest in the event of a
fire. With two bulbs in series, the resulting light is weaker and harder to
see in dense smoke.

Most of the time you won't have a fire. You could carry your rationalization
further by eliminating the lights and having zero chance of accidental
electrocution or falling from the ladder, and save on the electric bill to
boot.

Good Luck.

Fred

Ban wrote:

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:

Hey, I agree with you. But instead, I would have used higher voltage

lamps, two in parallel. Decent LEDs were hard to get back in the
'70s. Another solution might be to use neon lamps.


You mean flourescent lights. neon lamps need a high voltage transformer. :-(

Neon lamps need a current limiting resistor, something like 47k or so,
but not a transformer. Some of the screw base neons have the resistor
built into the base. Some of the ones I've seen have a standard sized
'edison' lamp base with a glass envelope that's about twice the size of
the base. They last something like tens of thousands of hours. They
would solve the problem of burned out filaments.

you will not want them for emergency lights, as they are often the cause of
the emergency themselves.
BTW also fluorescent lights have many shortcomings, in a cold
environment(Alaska?) they extinguish and won't start at even moderately cold
temperatures. They need some electronics inside the socket and finally last
not longer than special longlife bulbs, that is 6000h, which is not even 1
year. Of course the efficiency is much higher even if you add the loss of
the electronics (which is usually not accounted for).

Here in my building we have flourescent lights in the emergency lights, but
they are always off and only light up at power loss. They have a 12Ah 12V
gel-battery inside and will power the 5W lamp for not even 24h, not enough
if we have a blackout like in NY. But fortunaterly that has never happened
so far.

ciao Ban
Bordighera,Italy

Ban wrote:

Watson A.Name - Watt Sun wrote:

Hey, I agree with you. But instead, I would have used higher voltage

lamps, two in parallel. Decent LEDs were hard to get back in the
'70s. Another solution might be to use neon lamps.


You mean flourescent lights. neon lamps need a high voltage transformer. :-(

Neon lamps need a current limiting resistor, something like 47k or so,
but not a transformer. Some of the screw base neons have the resistor
built into the base. Some of the ones I've seen have a standard sized
'edison' lamp base with a glass envelope that's about twice the size of
the base. They last something like tens of thousands of hours. They
would solve the problem of burned out filaments.

you will not want them for emergency lights, as they are often the cause of
the emergency themselves.
BTW also fluorescent lights have many shortcomings, in a cold
environment(Alaska?) they extinguish and won't start at even moderately cold
temperatures. They need some electronics inside the socket and finally last
not longer than special longlife bulbs, that is 6000h, which is not even 1
year. Of course the efficiency is much higher even if you add the loss of
the electronics (which is usually not accounted for).

Here in my building we have flourescent lights in the emergency lights, but
they are always off and only light up at power loss. They have a 12Ah 12V
gel-battery inside and will power the 5W lamp for not even 24h, not enough
if we have a blackout like in NY. But fortunaterly that has never happened
so far.

ciao Ban
Bordighera,Italy

In article , Lizard Blizzard wrote:
Neon lamps need a current limiting resistor, something like 47k or so,
but not a transformer. Some of the screw base neons have the resistor

That's the case with the teenytiny neon night-lights that are commonly
built into clock radios and things. They sell those at Radio Shack.
Bought a two-pack there last year.

The large neon tube signs need a ballast in order to kick start the
tube...similar to fluorecent lights.

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

In article , Lizard Blizzard wrote:
Neon lamps need a current limiting resistor, something like 47k or so,
but not a transformer. Some of the screw base neons have the resistor

That's the case with the teenytiny neon night-lights that are commonly
built into clock radios and things. They sell those at Radio Shack.
Bought a two-pack there last year.

The large neon tube signs need a ballast in order to kick start the
tube...similar to fluorecent lights.

--
Sven Weil
New York City, U.S.A.

Sven Franklyn Weil wrote:
In article , Lizard Blizzard wrote:

Neon lamps need a current limiting resistor, something like 47k or so,
but not a transformer. Some of the screw base neons have the resistor


That's the case with the teenytiny neon night-lights that are commonly
built into clock radios and things. They sell those at Radio Shack.
Bought a two-pack there last year.

The large neon tube signs need a ballast in order to kick start the
tube...similar to fluorecent lights.

What is it? full moon? (no, that's a week away). I guess some young'uns
just enjoy arguing what they don't know about... ;-)

Look up the following:

NE-30, NE-34, NE-40 and NE-56.

At three watts on an edison base - the NE-40 is an impressive Neon bulb.
(and yes it runs fine on 120VAC - in fact it'll fire at about 85V)

best regards...
--
randy guttery

A Tender Tale - a page dedicated to those Ships and Crews
so vital to the United States Silent Service:
http://tendertale.com