"Paul Burridge" wrote in message
...
On 4 Dec 2003 17:30:27 -0800, Winfield Hill
wrote:

As John has said, that's a very low inductance that should not
present any problems at such a low power level. But perhaps for
a more detailed answer you can tell us the frequencies your coil
will experience. At high frequencies skin and proximity effects
dominate, and these can be evaluated with an Rac/Rdc ratio. If
a ferrite is used its high-frequency core loss can also be modeled
as an inductor resistance.

Thanks, Win! You're a diamond. John's formulae didn't appear on his
post for some reason, but you've given me the info I need to start
winding and be slap in the ball park right away. Great.
BTW, the factory inductors I have already are only about the size of
the newest half-watt resistors, so I was reluctant to chance it. I
know things keep getting smaller and somehow seem to defy the laws
of
physics, but just call me old fashioned. :-)
Thanks again.

P.


--

"I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it."
-
Winston Churchill

Paul, I really don't think you need to wind your own. For example,
a Coilcraft 1008CS 180nH part is rated at 620mA rms:

http://www.coi1craft.com/1008cs.cfm

The "trick" is that the dissipation is a function of the series
resistance, which is very low (0.77 ohms) as long as the core
doesn't saturate.

If you want to get really silly, their "Spring" inductors are rated
at 3A rms.

Regards
Ian

On 4 Dec 2003 17:30:27 -0800, Winfield Hill
wrote:

As John has said, that's a very low inductance that should not
present any problems at such a low power level. But perhaps for
a more detailed answer you can tell us the frequencies your coil
will experience. At high frequencies skin and proximity effects
dominate, and these can be evaluated with an Rac/Rdc ratio. If
a ferrite is used its high-frequency core loss can also be modeled
as an inductor resistance.

Thanks, Win! You're a diamond. John's formulae didn't appear on his
post for some reason, but you've given me the info I need to start
winding and be slap in the ball park right away. Great.
BTW, the factory inductors I have already are only about the size of
the newest half-watt resistors, so I was reluctant to chance it. I
know things keep getting smaller and somehow seem to defy the laws of
physics, but just call me old fashioned. :-)
Thanks again.

P.


--

"I expect history will be kind to me, since I intend to write it."
- Winston Churchill

http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85920178/begin/calc-00.htm

About 1/2 way down the pageare calculators that may be of interest.

Paul Burridge wrote:

Hi all,

I need to wind 180nH inductor for a parallel tuned circuit I'm
building, since the 180nH factory-made chokes I have don't look up to
the job power-handling wise. This coil needs to handle about 90mA p-p/
500mW maximum dissipation sine current and I've allowed 3 ohms for
series resistance.
Can anyone give me some steer on dimensions, number of turns, core
type and so on? Thanks,

Here are the basic formulas for air core coils. 3 ohms sounds pretty
high for such a small inductance.

--
John Popelish

For a very complete analysis of performance, including power handling
capacity, of solenoid coils of all proportions, dimensions and number of
turns, download in a few seconds and run immediately program SOLNOID3 from
website below.
----
.................................................. ..........
Regards from Reg, G4FGQ
For Free Radio Design Software go to
http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp
.................................................. ..........

Paul Burridge wrote...

I need to wind 180nH inductor for a parallel tuned circuit I'm
building, since the 180nH factory-made chokes I have don't look
up to the job power-handling wise. This coil needs to handle about
90mA p-p / 500mW maximum dissipation sine current and I've allowed
3 ohms for series resistance. Can anyone give me some steer on
dimensions, number of turns, core type and so on? Thanks,

As John has said, that's a very low inductance that should not
present any problems at such a low power level. But perhaps for
a more detailed answer you can tell us the frequencies your coil
will experience. At high frequencies skin and proximity effects
dominate, and these can be evaluated with an Rac/Rdc ratio. If
a ferrite is used its high-frequency core loss can also be modeled
as an inductor resistance.

Do you have any special size constraints? Unless you really need
a miniature size, an air core may be best for 180nH. You can use
the Wheeler equation to experiment with different coil designs.

I'll add some new grist for the mill, with a copy of a portion of
a posting I made 28 Dec 1997, about air-coil inductance equations.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Throughout the discussion we'll use the same dimensional system, based
on the drawing below. Here and in the 14 formulas below, N = turns,
a = mean radius, b = length, and c = winding thickness, and all are
in inches, unless otherwise stated.

length
|------ b --------|
--- ,-----------------,
c | cross section | ------------ a = winding mean radius
--- '-----------------' a |
__________________________ |
axis D = 2a
,-----------------, |
| cross section | --------
'------------\----'
\ solenoid coil layout
N turns
--------
[ snip five formulas and discussion ]

To simplify our lives, Wheeler empirically derived his popular
single-layer solenoid equation, using Nagaoka's equation and
tables. Wheeler's equation is shown below in two different ways.

a N^2 a^2 N^2 / 10 b
(6) L = ---------- = -------------- uH / inch
9 + 10 b/a 1 + 0.9 a/b

Wheeler says this equation is accurate to about 1% for long coils, or
any coils with (b/a 0.8). [Confirmed with extensive measurements I
made and posted on s.e.d.] It's easy to solve this equation for N.

A simple re-arrangement adds the concept of winding pitch. This can be
very useful, in part because a low-winding-height multilayer coil can
be treated as a single-layer coil with a higher winding pitch.

a^2 p N 1
(7) L = -------- * ---------------- uH / inch
10 1 + 0.9 a p / N

Here p is my turn-density pitch parameter, in turns/inch. Incidentally,
this makes clear that for long coils, once you pick a coil-winding pitch,
the inductance scales by N, rather than by N^2. Of course, the length
scales as well. Now solving for N isn't as easy. I get,

10 b
(8) N =~ ----- ( 1 + 9 a^3 p^2 / 100 L ) turns
p a^2

Alan Fowler pointed out a version of Wheeler's equation, claimed more
accurate, in F. Langford-Smith's "The Radiotron Designer's Handbook,"
1942. In the 3rd edition only, the work of Esnault-Pelterie is detailed,
a Frenchman who followed the "des savants japonais" (i.e. Nagaoaka) for
his derivation of a simple Wheeler-like formula with a claimed accuracy
of 0.1% for values of diameter/length between 0.2 and 1.5. Rearranging,

a^2 N^2 / 9.972 b
(9) L = -------------------- uH / inch
0.9949 + 0.9144 (a/b)

[ snip more formulas and stuff ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, there you have a small panaply of equation forms to select from.

(7) is easier to use than it appears at first glance. Let's design
a coil for you. We'll pick wire size #22, which has a diameter of
0.020 inches, prompting us to pick a winding-spacing of 0.04 inches,
or a 25 turns/in pitch. Inspired by a small art brush in my pencil
cup, we'll pick a coil diameter of 0.2", so equation (7) reduces to

.. 0.01 25 N 1
.. L = --------- * ------------------ uH / inch
.. 10 1 + 0.9 0.1 25 / N
..
.. 1
.. = 0.025" N * ------------ uH / in
.. 1 + 2.25/N

This formula is more simple than it appears, because the second term
approaches unity for coils of more than 10 - 20 turns.

The first term says a 180nH coil requires about 180/25 = 7 turns, so
we'll try N = 9, and get L = 225nH * 0.8 = 180nH, right on the money.

That's a 9-turn coil 0.2" in diameter and 0.36" long. It uses less
than six inches of wire, has a DC resistance of about 0.008 ohms,
and can handle very high DC currents.

Plugging our coil into equation (6) as a test, we have a = 0.1" and
b = 0.36" and N = 9, so we get L = 8.1 / (9 + 36) = 0.180 uH, bingo.

Thanks,
- Win

whill_at_picovolt-dot-com

http://w1.859.telia.com/~u85920178/begin/calc-00.htm

About 1/2 way down the pageare calculators that may be of interest.

I need to wind 180nH inductor for a parallel tuned circuit I'm
building,

Paul-

I suggest you find some stiff wire, wind about five turns using a pencil as a
form, and stretch or compress it to tune the circuit.

If you want a more stable inductor, then wind it on a high value, one or two
watt resistor. Once the desired inductance is set, put some kind of varnish
(coil dope) on it to hold the winding in place.

73, Fred, K4DII

I need to wind 180nH inductor for a parallel tuned circuit I'm
building,

Paul-

I suggest you find some stiff wire, wind about five turns using a pencil as a
form, and stretch or compress it to tune the circuit.

If you want a more stable inductor, then wind it on a high value, one or two
watt resistor. Once the desired inductance is set, put some kind of varnish
(coil dope) on it to hold the winding in place.

73, Fred, K4DII

In article , Bill Turner
writes:

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 13:55:35 +0200, Paul Keinanen
wrote:

One can still argue that the inductance and inductive reactance are as
well as the capacitance and the capacitive reactance are still there
as separate entities, but we can not measure them separately from
terminals of the coil. Thus, this is an artefact of the measurement
method.

Not only can you *not* measure them separately, they can not be
physically separated either, since the parasitic capacitance is always
present between adjacent windings. I would not call it an artifact of
the measurement method, but rather an artifact of the coil itself.

Nonsense. General Radio had a nice little formula way back
before 1956 for finding the distributed capacity of an inductor.
It was published in the Green Bible (ITT Reference Data for
Radio Engineers, small format, dark green hard cover). I used it
years ago and earlier this year and many times between.

Write on the whiteboard 100 times: Inductance does not change
with frequency...reactance changes with frequency.

Now if someone actually wants to WIND COILS, I have a little aid
for tiny ones wound on common screw thread forms that was
published in Ham Radio magazine. Has measured Qs over
frequency as well as basic inductance. I'll attach it to private e-mail
(PDF) to anyone that requests it.

Using common screw thread formers and solid wire allows a good
repeatability between bench and application. Forms can be anything
from a 4-40 bolt to a common screw-thread lamp base.

Folks in here are getting too wound up...and coiling to strike. :-)

Len Anderson
retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person