Where I live, in the woods of Maine, we have power outages.

Solar panels and all that stuff is quite expensive, but old car batteries
("old" is when it doesn't get my Diesel started in subzero temps) are not.

To make things just a bit comfi it would be nice to leave it in place with
a
charger attached (right now I tote the charger around when needed).

Many things will run right off the batterie(s), others might need an
inverter.

So basically I am talking about a photovoltaic system without the
photovoltaic panels, sort off.


So which chargers can I leave permanently attached to a battery?

The word 'trickle charger' or 'shore power' comes to mind. How is that
different from my old Sears charger which does me good for many years
already (but I unhook it after a day at most!).
=======================
Don't know how much power is involved and the average duration of an outage
, but the simplest way to keep power during brownouts is to use a
UPS=Uninterruptable Power Supply with integral batteries . I am using a make
APC=American Power Corporation , model Back-ups Pro 650 (650 Volt * Amp or
650 VA ,which equals 650 Watts when power factor =1) Back -up time at full
load is approx 15 minutes. UPSes are also available for connection to
external batteries .

Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 02:05:39 GMT, U wrote:

Solar panels and all that stuff is quite expensive, but old car batteries
("old" is when it doesn't get my Diesel started in subzero temps) are not.

While a cold diesel is hard to start, the capacity of a car battery
drops drastically at cold temperatures and assuming you are referring
to temperatures below 0 F (not 0 C), the capacity of the "old" battery
is well below nominal even in warm conditions.

So even if you can get those cheaply, you may have to have two to get
to the nominal capacity. The optimal float charging voltage may be
different for different old batteries and this can be a problem when
connecting multiple batteries in parallel.

Batteries designed for car starter duty often expect some amount of
vibration, which they do not get when in stationary use.

Unless you get several batteries for free, it is not such a big
bargain as it would look like. I don't know about the car battery
final disposal costs, but if they are high, collecting a large number
of reduced capacity old batteries might be quite expensive when they
are finally disposed.

Paul OH3LWR

In article , Paul Keinanen
writes:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 02:05:39 GMT, U wrote:

Solar panels and all that stuff is quite expensive, but old car batteries
("old" is when it doesn't get my Diesel started in subzero temps) are not.

While a cold diesel is hard to start, the capacity of a car battery
drops drastically at cold temperatures and assuming you are referring
to temperatures below 0 F (not 0 C), the capacity of the "old" battery
is well below nominal even in warm conditions.

Yet they DO start. :-)

I'm familiar with north country snow, ice, and freezing temperatures,
learned to drive in such environments. Automobiles are OUTSIDE
and have to take the entire change of temperatures. An emergency
power backup system does NOT have to have its battery out in the
cold...or hot.

So even if you can get those cheaply, you may have to have two to get
to the nominal capacity. The optimal float charging voltage may be
different for different old batteries and this can be a problem when
connecting multiple batteries in parallel.

Not absolutely necessary. 12 Volt automobile batteries designed
for LARGE vehicles have rather high ampere-hour ratings.

Do NOT - absolutely - keep batteries in parallel without series
diodes or other protections! One or more batteries in parallel can
effectively "cook" one that is low in voltage.

Batteries designed for car starter duty often expect some amount of
vibration, which they do not get when in stationary use.

Outside of bad design and poor quality control, the vehicle battery
source of failure is almost always excessive vibration. When plate
material is shaken off, it collects in the case bottom and can
short out neighboring plates.

Unless you get several batteries for free, it is not such a big
bargain as it would look like. I don't know about the car battery
final disposal costs, but if they are high, collecting a large number
of reduced capacity old batteries might be quite expensive when they
are finally disposed.

At most auto parts stores in the USA, one can get a medium-size
vehicle lead-acid battery for about $30 and trading in the old one.
Prices vary slightly according to region and store. Factory-new
batteries, such as Sears "Die-Hard" brand, are available for about
twice that, no trade-in. Auto dealership-service centers will
probably charge three times that (got stuck for that last year).
There is a great variation in lead-acid vehicle battery cost over here
so it is worth it to shop around.

My eye doctors' office uses two 12 V lead-acid vehicle batteries for
its servers (6 opthalmologists, 2 optometrists)...but only because
they have an old UPS designed for 24 V battery back-up. Last
year they moved that UPS and batteries to a concealed cabinet
instead of being beside the receptionists' desk where all who could
see saw it. Much better appearance. :-)

By the way, a small 12 V lead-acid battery designed for motorcycles
ought to be good for a heavy QRP rig.

Len Anderson
retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person

In article ,
(Avery Fineman) wrote:

While a cold diesel is hard to start

Not if you understand the physics of the situation.
Just take your XYL's Hair dryer out and blow hot air
down the air intake. Your diesel will start on the
first crank, first time , every time.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:26:26 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
(Avery Fineman) wrote:

While a cold diesel is hard to start

Not if you understand the physics of the situation.
Just take your XYL's Hair dryer out and blow hot air
down the air intake. Your diesel will start on the
first crank, first time , every time.

The problem with diesels is the high compression ratio, so rotating
the crank shaft is the hard part. Just monitor the signal lights in
the dashboard when you try to start.

Running the block heater for half an hour will help a lot, since the
oil flows much more smoothly and the battery will deliver much more
current (if in the engine compartment) due to the higher battery
temperature.

Paul OH3LWR

Well guys, thanks so much for all this info.

I couldn't access this newsgroup for a few days (server problem) and now I
had a whole bunch to read.

First of all in my economic environment (out here in the country) used
batteries, their disposal etc. cost next to nothing. Everything else, UPS
etc. does cost money.
So good (except for the cold cranking problem, and I will try out the hair
dryer routine, I don't discard advice from people in Alaska lightly)
batteries of this type will be used. And as Avery pointed out when
everything fails even a new battery is quite a bargain.

I read some of the material Roy recommended and it seems that if I keep the
battery mostly at constant temperature, and sitting on a cement slab which
is heated one can assume relatively constant temperature I would think, I
could keep the battery charged (good enough for my purpose) if I attach a
voltage limited charger with 13.7 volts.

A battery like that would run a DC circulator pump for days (a pump like
this could use 4 amps but it is only ON when the sun is out).


73 Uwe




in article , Paul Keinanen at
wrote on 2/29/04 01:22:

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:26:26 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
(Avery Fineman) wrote:

While a cold diesel is hard to start

Not if you understand the physics of the situation.
Just take your XYL's Hair dryer out and blow hot air
down the air intake. Your diesel will start on the
first crank, first time , every time.

The problem with diesels is the high compression ratio, so rotating
the crank shaft is the hard part. Just monitor the signal lights in
the dashboard when you try to start.

Running the block heater for half an hour will help a lot, since the
oil flows much more smoothly and the battery will deliver much more
current (if in the engine compartment) due to the higher battery
temperature.

Paul OH3LWR

Well guys, thanks so much for all this info.

I couldn't access this newsgroup for a few days (server problem) and now I
had a whole bunch to read.

First of all in my economic environment (out here in the country) used
batteries, their disposal etc. cost next to nothing. Everything else, UPS
etc. does cost money.
So good (except for the cold cranking problem, and I will try out the hair
dryer routine, I don't discard advice from people in Alaska lightly)
batteries of this type will be used. And as Avery pointed out when
everything fails even a new battery is quite a bargain.

I read some of the material Roy recommended and it seems that if I keep the
battery mostly at constant temperature, and sitting on a cement slab which
is heated one can assume relatively constant temperature I would think, I
could keep the battery charged (good enough for my purpose) if I attach a
voltage limited charger with 13.7 volts.

A battery like that would run a DC circulator pump for days (a pump like
this could use 4 amps but it is only ON when the sun is out).


73 Uwe




in article , Paul Keinanen at
wrote on 2/29/04 01:22:

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:26:26 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
(Avery Fineman) wrote:

While a cold diesel is hard to start

Not if you understand the physics of the situation.
Just take your XYL's Hair dryer out and blow hot air
down the air intake. Your diesel will start on the
first crank, first time , every time.

The problem with diesels is the high compression ratio, so rotating
the crank shaft is the hard part. Just monitor the signal lights in
the dashboard when you try to start.

Running the block heater for half an hour will help a lot, since the
oil flows much more smoothly and the battery will deliver much more
current (if in the engine compartment) due to the higher battery
temperature.

Paul OH3LWR

On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:26:26 GMT, Bruce in Alaska
wrote:

In article ,
(Avery Fineman) wrote:

While a cold diesel is hard to start

Not if you understand the physics of the situation.
Just take your XYL's Hair dryer out and blow hot air
down the air intake. Your diesel will start on the
first crank, first time , every time.

The problem with diesels is the high compression ratio, so rotating
the crank shaft is the hard part. Just monitor the signal lights in
the dashboard when you try to start.

Running the block heater for half an hour will help a lot, since the
oil flows much more smoothly and the battery will deliver much more
current (if in the engine compartment) due to the higher battery
temperature.

Paul OH3LWR

In article ,
(Avery Fineman) wrote:

While a cold diesel is hard to start

Not if you understand the physics of the situation.
Just take your XYL's Hair dryer out and blow hot air
down the air intake. Your diesel will start on the
first crank, first time , every time.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article , Paul Keinanen
writes:

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 02:05:39 GMT, U wrote:

Solar panels and all that stuff is quite expensive, but old car batteries
("old" is when it doesn't get my Diesel started in subzero temps) are not.

While a cold diesel is hard to start, the capacity of a car battery
drops drastically at cold temperatures and assuming you are referring
to temperatures below 0 F (not 0 C), the capacity of the "old" battery
is well below nominal even in warm conditions.

Yet they DO start. :-)

I'm familiar with north country snow, ice, and freezing temperatures,
learned to drive in such environments. Automobiles are OUTSIDE
and have to take the entire change of temperatures. An emergency
power backup system does NOT have to have its battery out in the
cold...or hot.

So even if you can get those cheaply, you may have to have two to get
to the nominal capacity. The optimal float charging voltage may be
different for different old batteries and this can be a problem when
connecting multiple batteries in parallel.

Not absolutely necessary. 12 Volt automobile batteries designed
for LARGE vehicles have rather high ampere-hour ratings.

Do NOT - absolutely - keep batteries in parallel without series
diodes or other protections! One or more batteries in parallel can
effectively "cook" one that is low in voltage.

Batteries designed for car starter duty often expect some amount of
vibration, which they do not get when in stationary use.

Outside of bad design and poor quality control, the vehicle battery
source of failure is almost always excessive vibration. When plate
material is shaken off, it collects in the case bottom and can
short out neighboring plates.

Unless you get several batteries for free, it is not such a big
bargain as it would look like. I don't know about the car battery
final disposal costs, but if they are high, collecting a large number
of reduced capacity old batteries might be quite expensive when they
are finally disposed.

At most auto parts stores in the USA, one can get a medium-size
vehicle lead-acid battery for about $30 and trading in the old one.
Prices vary slightly according to region and store. Factory-new
batteries, such as Sears "Die-Hard" brand, are available for about
twice that, no trade-in. Auto dealership-service centers will
probably charge three times that (got stuck for that last year).
There is a great variation in lead-acid vehicle battery cost over here
so it is worth it to shop around.

My eye doctors' office uses two 12 V lead-acid vehicle batteries for
its servers (6 opthalmologists, 2 optometrists)...but only because
they have an old UPS designed for 24 V battery back-up. Last
year they moved that UPS and batteries to a concealed cabinet
instead of being beside the receptionists' desk where all who could
see saw it. Much better appearance. :-)

By the way, a small 12 V lead-acid battery designed for motorcycles
ought to be good for a heavy QRP rig.

Len Anderson
retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person