Hi all,

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?
I'm only trying to get 17.2Mhz out of a 3.44Mhz source and am thus far
failing spectacularly. I've tried everything I can think of so far to
no avail. All I can get apart from the fundamental is a strong third
harmonic on 10.32Mhz, regardless of what I tune for. I've tried
passing the osc output through two successive inverter gates to
sharpen it up, but still nothing beyond the third appears after tuned
amplification for the fifth. I no longer have a spectrum analyser so
can't check for the presence of a decent comb of harmonics at the
input to the multiplier stage but can only assume the fifth is well
down in the mush for some reason. I could change the inverters for
schmitt triggers and gain a couple of nS but can't see that making
enough difference. What about sticking a varactor in there somewhere?
Would its non-linearity assist or are they only any good for even
order harmonics?
Any suggestions, please. I'm stumped!
--

The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.

In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew), Paul Burridge wrote:
Hi all,

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?
I'm only trying to get 17.2Mhz out of a 3.44Mhz source and am thus far
failing spectacularly. I've tried everything I can think of so far to
no avail. All I can get apart from the fundamental is a strong third
harmonic on 10.32Mhz, regardless of what I tune for. I've tried
passing the osc output through two successive inverter gates to
sharpen it up, but still nothing beyond the third appears after tuned
amplification for the fifth. I no longer have a spectrum analyser so
can't check for the presence of a decent comb of harmonics at the
input to the multiplier stage but can only assume the fifth is well
down in the mush for some reason. I could change the inverters for
schmitt triggers and gain a couple of nS but can't see that making
enough difference. What about sticking a varactor in there somewhere?
Would its non-linearity assist or are they only any good for even
order harmonics?
Any suggestions, please. I'm stumped!

There must be something killing the fifth harmonic, which should be
present at (1/5) of the amplitude of the fundamental in a square
wave. That's a pretty strong component.

If you can amplify the output of the source and then square it up
sharply, the fifth harmonic ought to be pretty easy to extract. The
larger the amplitude of that square wave, the larger the amplitude of
the fifth harmonic, of course, so amplification is your friend here --
but you may want to shield very well indeed to keep other components
out of places where they don't belong and may cause trouble.

Have a look at
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/audio/geowv.html
for a lot of stuff that you probably already know.

Best of luck, and please keep us posted.

--
Mike Andrews

Tired old sysadmin

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?

No black magic, you just need to filter for the fifth harmonic. I'm
extracting the 16th harmonic of 64 MHz out of a MMIC, and retuning the
filter, can actually extract a little more 15th than 16th. You can generate
a comb generator to do the job of generating large quantities of all
harmonics, but for this simple of a job, it'd be overkill big time. Either
make a better filter, amplify your fundamental more before filtering, (the 5
volt digital squarer ought to put out +17 dBm) or check the HP app note
AN983 and take advantage of "filter gain".

W4ZCB

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?

No black magic, you just need to filter for the fifth harmonic. I'm
extracting the 16th harmonic of 64 MHz out of a MMIC, and retuning the
filter, can actually extract a little more 15th than 16th. You can generate
a comb generator to do the job of generating large quantities of all
harmonics, but for this simple of a job, it'd be overkill big time. Either
make a better filter, amplify your fundamental more before filtering, (the 5
volt digital squarer ought to put out +17 dBm) or check the HP app note
AN983 and take advantage of "filter gain".

W4ZCB

(Mike Andrews) wrote in message ...
In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew), Paul Burridge wrote:
Hi all,

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?
I'm only trying to get 17.2Mhz out of a 3.44Mhz source and am thus far
failing spectacularly. I've tried everything I can think of so far to
no avail. All I can get apart from the fundamental is a strong third
harmonic on 10.32Mhz, regardless of what I tune for. I've tried
passing the osc output through two successive inverter gates to
sharpen it up, but still nothing beyond the third appears after tuned
amplification for the fifth. I no longer have a spectrum analyser so
can't check for the presence of a decent comb of harmonics at the
input to the multiplier stage but can only assume the fifth is well
down in the mush for some reason. I could change the inverters for
schmitt triggers and gain a couple of nS but can't see that making
enough difference. What about sticking a varactor in there somewhere?
Would its non-linearity assist or are they only any good for even
order harmonics?
Any suggestions, please. I'm stumped!

There must be something killing the fifth harmonic, which should be
present at (1/5) of the amplitude of the fundamental in a square
wave. That's a pretty strong component.

If you can amplify the output of the source and then square it up
sharply, the fifth harmonic ought to be pretty easy to extract. The
larger the amplitude of that square wave, the larger the amplitude of
the fifth harmonic, of course, so amplification is your friend here --
but you may want to shield very well indeed to keep other components
out of places where they don't belong and may cause trouble.

Have a look at
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/audio/geowv.html
for a lot of stuff that you probably already know.

Best of luck, and please keep us posted.

Hey Mike,

Thanks for that great link. What an awesome site! I am going to be a
regular visitor.

All the best,

Jack

In article , (Mike Andrews) wrote:
In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew),
Paul Burridge wrote:
Hi all,

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?
I'm only trying to get 17.2Mhz out of a 3.44Mhz source and am thus far
failing spectacularly. I've tried everything I can think of so far to
no avail. All I can get apart from the fundamental is a strong third
harmonic on 10.32Mhz, regardless of what I tune for. I've tried
passing the osc output through two successive inverter gates to
sharpen it up, but still nothing beyond the third appears after tuned
amplification for the fifth. I no longer have a spectrum analyser so
can't check for the presence of a decent comb of harmonics at the
input to the multiplier stage but can only assume the fifth is well
down in the mush for some reason. I could change the inverters for
schmitt triggers and gain a couple of nS but can't see that making
enough difference. What about sticking a varactor in there somewhere?
Would its non-linearity assist or are they only any good for even
order harmonics?
Any suggestions, please. I'm stumped!

There must be something killing the fifth harmonic, which should be
present at (1/5) of the amplitude of the fundamental in a square
wave. That's a pretty strong component.

If you can amplify the output of the source and then square it up
sharply, the fifth harmonic ought to be pretty easy to extract. The
larger the amplitude of that square wave, the larger the amplitude of
the fifth harmonic, of course, so amplification is your friend here --
but you may want to shield very well indeed to keep other components
out of places where they don't belong and may cause trouble.

Have a look at
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/audio/geowv.html
for a lot of stuff that you probably already know.

Best of luck, and please keep us posted.

Remember the harmonic energy is in the edges of the waveform. You need to
have fast rise and fall times to get the theoretical 1/5 of the fundamental.

From experience an 'ACT type device [74ACT04 or whatever] driving thru a small
resistor [20 to 50 ohms] into a properly tuned tank should work. I have used
that method to due a multiplication to a hifger frequency than you are looking
for.

Dr. G.

(Mike Andrews) wrote in message ...
In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew), Paul Burridge wrote:
Hi all,

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?
I'm only trying to get 17.2Mhz out of a 3.44Mhz source and am thus far
failing spectacularly. I've tried everything I can think of so far to
no avail. All I can get apart from the fundamental is a strong third
harmonic on 10.32Mhz, regardless of what I tune for. I've tried
passing the osc output through two successive inverter gates to
sharpen it up, but still nothing beyond the third appears after tuned
amplification for the fifth. I no longer have a spectrum analyser so
can't check for the presence of a decent comb of harmonics at the
input to the multiplier stage but can only assume the fifth is well
down in the mush for some reason. I could change the inverters for
schmitt triggers and gain a couple of nS but can't see that making
enough difference. What about sticking a varactor in there somewhere?
Would its non-linearity assist or are they only any good for even
order harmonics?
Any suggestions, please. I'm stumped!

There must be something killing the fifth harmonic, which should be
present at (1/5) of the amplitude of the fundamental in a square
wave. That's a pretty strong component.

If you can amplify the output of the source and then square it up
sharply, the fifth harmonic ought to be pretty easy to extract. The
larger the amplitude of that square wave, the larger the amplitude of
the fifth harmonic, of course, so amplification is your friend here --
but you may want to shield very well indeed to keep other components
out of places where they don't belong and may cause trouble.

Have a look at
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/audio/geowv.html
for a lot of stuff that you probably already know.

Best of luck, and please keep us posted.

Hey Mike,

Thanks for that great link. What an awesome site! I am going to be a
regular visitor.

All the best,

Jack

In article , (Mike Andrews) wrote:
In (rec.radio.amateur.homebrew),
Paul Burridge wrote:
Hi all,

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?
I'm only trying to get 17.2Mhz out of a 3.44Mhz source and am thus far
failing spectacularly. I've tried everything I can think of so far to
no avail. All I can get apart from the fundamental is a strong third
harmonic on 10.32Mhz, regardless of what I tune for. I've tried
passing the osc output through two successive inverter gates to
sharpen it up, but still nothing beyond the third appears after tuned
amplification for the fifth. I no longer have a spectrum analyser so
can't check for the presence of a decent comb of harmonics at the
input to the multiplier stage but can only assume the fifth is well
down in the mush for some reason. I could change the inverters for
schmitt triggers and gain a couple of nS but can't see that making
enough difference. What about sticking a varactor in there somewhere?
Would its non-linearity assist or are they only any good for even
order harmonics?
Any suggestions, please. I'm stumped!

There must be something killing the fifth harmonic, which should be
present at (1/5) of the amplitude of the fundamental in a square
wave. That's a pretty strong component.

If you can amplify the output of the source and then square it up
sharply, the fifth harmonic ought to be pretty easy to extract. The
larger the amplitude of that square wave, the larger the amplitude of
the fifth harmonic, of course, so amplification is your friend here --
but you may want to shield very well indeed to keep other components
out of places where they don't belong and may cause trouble.

Have a look at
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/audio/geowv.html
for a lot of stuff that you probably already know.

Best of luck, and please keep us posted.

Remember the harmonic energy is in the edges of the waveform. You need to
have fast rise and fall times to get the theoretical 1/5 of the fundamental.

From experience an 'ACT type device [74ACT04 or whatever] driving thru a small
resistor [20 to 50 ohms] into a properly tuned tank should work. I have used
that method to due a multiplication to a hifger frequency than you are looking
for.

Dr. G.

"Mike Andrews" wrote in message
...
In
(rec.radio.amateur.homebrew), Paul Burridge wrote:
Hi all,

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?

The crystal osc itself, probably is sine wave, and therefore has low 5th
content.
Square it up, then pass through a filter, and moderate Q parallel resonant
tank on the 5th harmonic.

"Mike Andrews" wrote in message
...
In
(rec.radio.amateur.homebrew), Paul Burridge wrote:
Hi all,

Is there some black magic required to get higher order harmonics out
of an oscillator?

The crystal osc itself, probably is sine wave, and therefore has low 5th
content.
Square it up, then pass through a filter, and moderate Q parallel resonant
tank on the 5th harmonic.