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On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 08:00:57 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson
wrote in : On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 14:54:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Apr 2004 19:11:48 -0700) it happened "Watson A.Name - \"Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\"" wrote in : "Jan Panteltje" wrote in message ... On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:57:18 GMT) it happened wrote in : A guy in Florida quoted 48 years pay back time. I ran the numbers for my home - over 40 years, and I pay 13 cents per kwh. A 2 kW system costs $15000. Assuming an average of 8 hours per day of 2kW per hour, that solar system would give me 16 kWh. I pay 16*.13 or $2.08 for 16 kWh. Works out to 19+ years for payback, if you don't count on mortgage payments for the system. Add that in, and the cost of a $15000 system is much worse - over 30,000 in a 25 year, 7% mortgage. You have to take into account that the cost of a kWh from the grid in 25 years will be a LOT higher too, if there still is a grid during and after WW3 that is. JP I don't blame you for being paranoid about WW3, if you're from Holland. History has treated those countries poorly during the last WWs. But then, who cares if there's a WW3? I'm more concerned about the next big earthquake. Some scientists are predicting a big 6.something earthquake in the Southern Calif. desert before Sept. I hope so, 'cause some of these immigrants might consider going back to their point of origination. Yea, every place has it problems, here it is the water level, and dikes -so flooding-. Those imigrants are a workforce, illegal immigrants behave usually pretty well to avoid being exposed. I personally think they have equal rights as the native Americans who stole the land from the Indiens (spelling?). Zero rights? Or the right of the strongest. Was it not Reagan who pardonned most of them in California? Then they started paying taxes.... Was not California short of cash? JP FINALLY! I've figured out Jan's source of news and historical information... comic books ;-) Wrong again, as first hand experience working in California I KNOW how it is. I ALSO know what a jail full of illegal Mexicans looks like from the inside. So you better stop joking, I probably know US better then you. And no I am not a Mexican. That was the south border, I can also tell you about the north border. Now go and dream on, dream dream dream the US dream my friend. JP |
On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:28:31 -0400) it happened KR Williams
wrote in t: My guess though, is that solar cells for the individual will never become cheaper than power from the grid, since the power company has access to the same technology and a *lot* better financing possibilities. ...and they don't have to have the pay- back in my lifetime. A guess it is, given that solar cell efficiancy will eventually reach 60 % in my estimate, then yes, buy one like that in your next lifetime if you believe in that stuff. In the mean time there are thoso who use them now. When the US gets a real oil problem, you can always get one at crisis price. JP |
On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:28:31 -0400) it happened KR Williams
wrote in t: My guess though, is that solar cells for the individual will never become cheaper than power from the grid, since the power company has access to the same technology and a *lot* better financing possibilities. ...and they don't have to have the pay- back in my lifetime. A guess it is, given that solar cell efficiancy will eventually reach 60 % in my estimate, then yes, buy one like that in your next lifetime if you believe in that stuff. In the mean time there are thoso who use them now. When the US gets a real oil problem, you can always get one at crisis price. JP |
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On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:56:48 -0400, KR Williams wrote:
In article , says... [snip] Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. Is that the farm between LA and (around) Palm Springs? I drove through there ~five years ago and was amazed at the size of the wind-farm(s?) and the number of turbines that were stopped. I haven't been able to determine if the stopped units were off-line for repair, or simply off-line based on grid needs. I've *never* seen anyone *working* on them, but I drive by there only once or twice a year. [snip] ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:56:48 -0400, KR Williams wrote:
In article , says... [snip] Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. Is that the farm between LA and (around) Palm Springs? I drove through there ~five years ago and was amazed at the size of the wind-farm(s?) and the number of turbines that were stopped. I haven't been able to determine if the stopped units were off-line for repair, or simply off-line based on grid needs. I've *never* seen anyone *working* on them, but I drive by there only once or twice a year. [snip] ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | | | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat | | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
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"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. ...Jim Thompson It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. |
"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message ... On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. ...Jim Thompson It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. |
"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message ... On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson wrote in : On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. Only seen pictures of it. These look the same as the ones we have here. There are plans to build a whole bunch out in the sea here, but I dunno how far that is from realization. There are already a significant number of off-shore windmills in Denmark. Or at least next to Denmark. |
"Jan Panteltje" wrote in message ... On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700) it happened Jim Thompson wrote in : On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. Only seen pictures of it. These look the same as the ones we have here. There are plans to build a whole bunch out in the sea here, but I dunno how far that is from realization. There are already a significant number of off-shore windmills in Denmark. Or at least next to Denmark. |
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:47:54 -0700, the renowned "Richard Henry"
wrote: "Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. ...Jim Thompson It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. I think, other than the pollution, the costs are included in the overall running cost (dead miners, etc. etc.). The pollution is a bit harder to figure, but modern plants are pretty clean. I live close to a big thermal plant and the left-wing newspapers have been running pictures of the stacks (usually with evil lighting) saying that "smoke" is rising blah blah. They've dug up old pictures with all 4 stacks running, and it's usually running at 25%; never more than 50%. Of course it's mostly steam and some CO2- on a clear day you can see nothing in the air discoloring it, just the refraction from the heat and steam trails that rapidly dissipate. The stupid new gov't has been making noises about closing the thermal plants *AND* the nuclear plants- I don't know where they think the power would come from (maybe we can buy it all and export the problem to less "responsible" people). Bleh. Even with conservation measures and some deindustrialization, population is growing at a healthy rate, and so is consumption. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:47:54 -0700, the renowned "Richard Henry"
wrote: "Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: Charging 12 V Lead -Acid batteries to 14.4 V , voltage limited by a home made shunt controller . System includes a 150 Watts wind generator , to support system during windy (and usually sunless) periods Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP Have you seen the windmill "farm" west of Indio, California (on I10) ? HUNDREDS of large windmill AC generators. ...Jim Thompson It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. I think, other than the pollution, the costs are included in the overall running cost (dead miners, etc. etc.). The pollution is a bit harder to figure, but modern plants are pretty clean. I live close to a big thermal plant and the left-wing newspapers have been running pictures of the stacks (usually with evil lighting) saying that "smoke" is rising blah blah. They've dug up old pictures with all 4 stacks running, and it's usually running at 25%; never more than 50%. Of course it's mostly steam and some CO2- on a clear day you can see nothing in the air discoloring it, just the refraction from the heat and steam trails that rapidly dissipate. The stupid new gov't has been making noises about closing the thermal plants *AND* the nuclear plants- I don't know where they think the power would come from (maybe we can buy it all and export the problem to less "responsible" people). Bleh. Even with conservation measures and some deindustrialization, population is growing at a healthy rate, and so is consumption. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no
noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation. ===================== Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small and of an older design. Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more reliable. In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore ,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures. Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3 years) . To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage / maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land ,especially in the northern provinces. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no
noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation. ===================== Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small and of an older design. Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more reliable. In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore ,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures. Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3 years) . To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage / maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land ,especially in the northern provinces. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
KR Williams wrote:
In article , says... On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:57:18 GMT) it happened wrote in : ....snip... Add that in, and the cost of a $15000 system is much worse - over 30,000 in a 25 year, 7% mortgage. You have to take into account that the cost of a kWh from the grid in 25 years will be a LOT higher too, if there still is a grid during and after WW3 that is. That's silly economics. I do not have to take into account the cost of electricity in 25 years. I can wait. Solar cells are becoming cheaper too. When the cost of the solar cell is less than the cost of power from the grid I can switch, saving all of the negative amortization inbetween, and have a *new* system in 25 years, just as you're in need of replacing yours. ;-) My guess though, is that solar cells for the individual will never become cheaper than power from the grid, since the power company has access to the same technology and a *lot* better financing possibilities. ...and they don't have to have the pay- back in my lifetime. They have access to the tech, BUT, they also have to maintain the distribution system. Since my electricity has been unbundled, roughly half of my cost per Kwh goes to the distribution co., not the producer. Ice storms, drunk drivers, blown line fuses all cost money. As well as the personel and associated benefits packages, transportation costs of materials, etc. for maintaining the lines. All this is avoided cost on home solar. And... www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=6482 talking about a new discovery: "A solar cell with the simplest possible physical structure could achieve 50 percent efficiency or better, far higher than any yet demonstrated in the laboratory." It isn't cost effective for most of us yet, but the tipping point is coming. -- Jerry wa2rkn no email @ present |
KR Williams wrote:
In article , says... On a sunny day (Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:57:18 GMT) it happened wrote in : ....snip... Add that in, and the cost of a $15000 system is much worse - over 30,000 in a 25 year, 7% mortgage. You have to take into account that the cost of a kWh from the grid in 25 years will be a LOT higher too, if there still is a grid during and after WW3 that is. That's silly economics. I do not have to take into account the cost of electricity in 25 years. I can wait. Solar cells are becoming cheaper too. When the cost of the solar cell is less than the cost of power from the grid I can switch, saving all of the negative amortization inbetween, and have a *new* system in 25 years, just as you're in need of replacing yours. ;-) My guess though, is that solar cells for the individual will never become cheaper than power from the grid, since the power company has access to the same technology and a *lot* better financing possibilities. ...and they don't have to have the pay- back in my lifetime. They have access to the tech, BUT, they also have to maintain the distribution system. Since my electricity has been unbundled, roughly half of my cost per Kwh goes to the distribution co., not the producer. Ice storms, drunk drivers, blown line fuses all cost money. As well as the personel and associated benefits packages, transportation costs of materials, etc. for maintaining the lines. All this is avoided cost on home solar. And... www.solaraccess.com/news/story?storyid=6482 talking about a new discovery: "A solar cell with the simplest possible physical structure could achieve 50 percent efficiency or better, far higher than any yet demonstrated in the laboratory." It isn't cost effective for most of us yet, but the tipping point is coming. -- Jerry wa2rkn no email @ present |
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:47:54 -0700, the renowned "Richard Henry" wrote: "Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: ....snip... It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. I think, other than the pollution, the costs are included in the overall running cost (dead miners, etc. etc.). The pollution is a bit harder to figure, but modern plants are pretty clean. I live close to a big thermal plant and the left-wing newspapers have been running pictures of the stacks (usually with evil lighting) saying that "smoke" is rising blah blah. They've dug up old pictures with all 4 stacks running, and it's usually running at 25%; never more than 50%. Of course it's mostly steam and some CO2- on a clear day you can see nothing in the air discoloring it, just the refraction from the heat and steam trails that rapidly dissipate. The stupid new gov't has been making noises about closing the thermal plants *AND* the nuclear plants- I don't know where they think the power would come from (maybe we can buy it all and export the problem to less "responsible" people). Bleh. Even with conservation measures and some deindustrialization, population is growing at a healthy rate, and so is consumption. I assume you are talking about coal fired plants? They release particles as well as mercury and radioactivity. There is no clean power. -- Jerry wa2rkn no email @ present |
Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 11:47:54 -0700, the renowned "Richard Henry" wrote: "Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 17:45:00 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson wrote: On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 00:35:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote: On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 01:08:04 +0100) it happened "Newsgroups" wrote in hQjgc.160$Jc5.69@newsfe1-win: ....snip... It's an unusual place- the wind just whistles through the canyons there and there are dust stoms. A fair number of them seem to be down for maintenance whenever I go through. I wonder if it is really more cost effective than burning coal. That depends to some degree what you consider the "costs" of burning coal are. I think, other than the pollution, the costs are included in the overall running cost (dead miners, etc. etc.). The pollution is a bit harder to figure, but modern plants are pretty clean. I live close to a big thermal plant and the left-wing newspapers have been running pictures of the stacks (usually with evil lighting) saying that "smoke" is rising blah blah. They've dug up old pictures with all 4 stacks running, and it's usually running at 25%; never more than 50%. Of course it's mostly steam and some CO2- on a clear day you can see nothing in the air discoloring it, just the refraction from the heat and steam trails that rapidly dissipate. The stupid new gov't has been making noises about closing the thermal plants *AND* the nuclear plants- I don't know where they think the power would come from (maybe we can buy it all and export the problem to less "responsible" people). Bleh. Even with conservation measures and some deindustrialization, population is growing at a healthy rate, and so is consumption. I assume you are talking about coal fired plants? They release particles as well as mercury and radioactivity. There is no clean power. -- Jerry wa2rkn no email @ present |
Highland Ham wrote...
Having seen these machines near Palm Springs, they seem to be rather small and of an older design. I wonder if they shouldn't be replaced, that's prime wind territory. In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land, especially in the northern provinces. Do they rent the space to the wind-generator owners, or do they each install and maintain them themselves? Is there a subsidized rate for the sale of electricity to the grid? Thanks, - Win whill_at_picovolt-dot-com |
Highland Ham wrote...
Having seen these machines near Palm Springs, they seem to be rather small and of an older design. I wonder if they shouldn't be replaced, that's prime wind territory. In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land, especially in the northern provinces. Do they rent the space to the wind-generator owners, or do they each install and maintain them themselves? Is there a subsidized rate for the sale of electricity to the grid? Thanks, - Win whill_at_picovolt-dot-com |
Roger has been listening to those who have a nice tidy explanation of
everything. Sometime you want to try to explain to him how come our lettuce is so cheap. "Roger Gt" wrote in message . com... .... Is that why 18% of inmates in the Oregon prison system are illegals? Nearly one third of petty criminals in Southern Ca are also illegals. Actually, this probably has more to do with the great public defender they are likely to get. You haven't got the perspective! The sleep on the streets and hang out at businesses hoping to be offered work and have destroyed whole neighborhoods. Well, I lived down in Orange County CA for a long time. I must admit that there are some offensive things going on, but most of the illegals I know about are not the quintessential Hobos of our modern society. Too much risk in coming above "the man's" radar. They hang with their extended families, and out in the farming districts where they get seasonal work. Big population in Colorado for some reason. The problem is spreading and it is really bad the nearer you get to the boarder. Farmers along the border have their crops and equipment stolen or spoiled and have to maintain a security patrol to keep their homes from being broken into. These people are criminals and do not respect any laws. Beg pardon. These people, except for course for the drug mules that we pay to bring us our cheap drugs, are the brightest, best, and most ambitious of a seriously abused population. We might solve 90% of our problems, at the cost of a bit more expensive lettuce, by making them semi legals and preventing their abuse. .... (subject. Paying taxes.) Not then, nor now! They are a major burden on the state to the tune of about $4b a year! Whew! Is that all? They are responsible for around 12 billion in company proffits, of which they get around 3 billion, and out of that they pay around half billion in sales taxes. Actually I expect their employers collect federal and state tax from their salary, and pay it to themselves. I think that overall our illegal emegrants likely provide us more benifit than cost, and on top of that they are such an easy target for racial and cultural hatred. Easy to blame our total failure to provide for our own poor by calling them all illegals because some few are, horror of horrors, unable to get legally admitted to our official version of heaven. BTB, I just made up the numbers for the heck of it. Sounds reasonable to me, so find better ones. |
Roger has been listening to those who have a nice tidy explanation of
everything. Sometime you want to try to explain to him how come our lettuce is so cheap. "Roger Gt" wrote in message . com... .... Is that why 18% of inmates in the Oregon prison system are illegals? Nearly one third of petty criminals in Southern Ca are also illegals. Actually, this probably has more to do with the great public defender they are likely to get. You haven't got the perspective! The sleep on the streets and hang out at businesses hoping to be offered work and have destroyed whole neighborhoods. Well, I lived down in Orange County CA for a long time. I must admit that there are some offensive things going on, but most of the illegals I know about are not the quintessential Hobos of our modern society. Too much risk in coming above "the man's" radar. They hang with their extended families, and out in the farming districts where they get seasonal work. Big population in Colorado for some reason. The problem is spreading and it is really bad the nearer you get to the boarder. Farmers along the border have their crops and equipment stolen or spoiled and have to maintain a security patrol to keep their homes from being broken into. These people are criminals and do not respect any laws. Beg pardon. These people, except for course for the drug mules that we pay to bring us our cheap drugs, are the brightest, best, and most ambitious of a seriously abused population. We might solve 90% of our problems, at the cost of a bit more expensive lettuce, by making them semi legals and preventing their abuse. .... (subject. Paying taxes.) Not then, nor now! They are a major burden on the state to the tune of about $4b a year! Whew! Is that all? They are responsible for around 12 billion in company proffits, of which they get around 3 billion, and out of that they pay around half billion in sales taxes. Actually I expect their employers collect federal and state tax from their salary, and pay it to themselves. I think that overall our illegal emegrants likely provide us more benifit than cost, and on top of that they are such an easy target for racial and cultural hatred. Easy to blame our total failure to provide for our own poor by calling them all illegals because some few are, horror of horrors, unable to get legally admitted to our official version of heaven. BTB, I just made up the numbers for the heck of it. Sounds reasonable to me, so find better ones. |
"Roger Gt" wrote in message . com... The savages who lived here didn't own the land, Who did? The King of Spain? |
"Roger Gt" wrote in message . com... The savages who lived here didn't own the land, Who did? The King of Spain? |
On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:20:33 +0100) it happened "Highland Ham"
wrote in rSCgc.657$Gq3.274@newsfe1-win: Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP ============================== As I reported in a previous message its rated capacity is only 150 Watts. 6 Blades , 900 mm diameter, max rpm approx 250 , 3 phase generator ( DC through one and a half standard 25 Amperes bridge rectifiers) The thing sits on a street lamp post with an extension (approx 8 metres above ground. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH Thx, sounds good. I have a place for such a thing, and 1 meter diameter is not much. Will think about this a bit :-) JP |
On a sunny day (Sun, 18 Apr 2004 09:20:33 +0100) it happened "Highland Ham"
wrote in rSCgc.657$Gq3.274@newsfe1-win: Now a wind generator would be cool, there are many windmils of huge size here, one next to my house (100m or so), a BIG one that replaced 5 smaller ones... It is on the coast, and it is always windy here... How big is that thing? JP ============================== As I reported in a previous message its rated capacity is only 150 Watts. 6 Blades , 900 mm diameter, max rpm approx 250 , 3 phase generator ( DC through one and a half standard 25 Amperes bridge rectifiers) The thing sits on a street lamp post with an extension (approx 8 metres above ground. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH Thx, sounds good. I have a place for such a thing, and 1 meter diameter is not much. Will think about this a bit :-) JP |
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:11:39 GMT, "Roger Gt" wrote:
No... Regan did not and could not pardon Illegals, he didn't have that power. He would have been recalled had he even suggested it, and the problem is much worse now! Sure he had the power. Just as Jimmy Carter granted amnesty to the draft dodgers that ran to Canada. Remove "HeadFromButt", before replying by email. |
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:11:39 GMT, "Roger Gt" wrote:
No... Regan did not and could not pardon Illegals, he didn't have that power. He would have been recalled had he even suggested it, and the problem is much worse now! Sure he had the power. Just as Jimmy Carter granted amnesty to the draft dodgers that ran to Canada. Remove "HeadFromButt", before replying by email. |
"maxfoo" wrote in message ... : On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:11:39 GMT, "Roger Gt" wrote: : : No... Regan did not and could not pardon Illegals, he didn't have : that power. He would have been recalled had he even suggested it, : and the problem is much worse now! : : Sure he had the power. Just as Jimmy Carter granted amnesty to the draft dodgers : that ran to Canada. : When Regan was governor? What has that to do with immigration? |
"maxfoo" wrote in message ... : On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 17:11:39 GMT, "Roger Gt" wrote: : : No... Regan did not and could not pardon Illegals, he didn't have : that power. He would have been recalled had he even suggested it, : and the problem is much worse now! : : Sure he had the power. Just as Jimmy Carter granted amnesty to the draft dodgers : that ran to Canada. : When Regan was governor? What has that to do with immigration? |
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:11:24 GMT, "Roger Gt" wrote:
When Regan was governor? What has that to do with immigration? Reagan was Governor from 1967-1975, didn't think illegals were on the radar back then. During his presidency in the 1980s they were noticeable. I lived in LA til '86...so thought you were referring to that time period. Remove "HeadFromButt", before replying by email. |
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:11:24 GMT, "Roger Gt" wrote:
When Regan was governor? What has that to do with immigration? Reagan was Governor from 1967-1975, didn't think illegals were on the radar back then. During his presidency in the 1980s they were noticeable. I lived in LA til '86...so thought you were referring to that time period. Remove "HeadFromButt", before replying by email. |
"Richard Henry" wrote in message news:KxUgc.24273$ab3.3968@fed1read02... "Roger Gt" wrote in message . com... The savages who lived here didn't own the land, Who did? The King of Spain? No. The tribes "owned" the land they could defend with their ferocity, cunning, and a sharp stick or flint ax. They did not farm as individuals but as extended families, so they had no need to own the land as individuals. The horse, and the steel blades changed all that quite rapidly in historic terms, well before the settlers started to sweep across the country. |
"Richard Henry" wrote in message news:KxUgc.24273$ab3.3968@fed1read02... "Roger Gt" wrote in message . com... The savages who lived here didn't own the land, Who did? The King of Spain? No. The tribes "owned" the land they could defend with their ferocity, cunning, and a sharp stick or flint ax. They did not farm as individuals but as extended families, so they had no need to own the land as individuals. The horse, and the steel blades changed all that quite rapidly in historic terms, well before the settlers started to sweep across the country. |
Highland Ham wrote:
Last month I went to Palm springs for the Faire, and there was no noticeable difference in the numbers of windmills in operation. ===================== Having seen these machines near Palm Springs ,they seem to be rather small and of an older design. Rather small?!!!! You call 350kW or more with blades 150 Feet (45m) long *SMALL*???? Modern machines are much bigger (up to 2 MW rated capacity) and more reliable. Even bigger! In the Netherlands they are now planning a number of 2MW machines offshore ,approx 8 kms off the coast placed on seabed based stuctures. Their designers are focussing on minimum maintenance ( only once every 3 years) . To date land based machines produce on average only 16% of their rated capacity ,due to periods without adequate wind and to technical outage / maintenance. Yet they seem profitable. In the Netherlands many farmers have them on their land ,especially in the northern provinces. I'd like to know what has to be done to get the generated power back into the grid. Frank GM0CSZ / KN6WH |
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