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Thanks.....QSY'ing to sci.electronics
"Michael Black" wrote in message ... "Rick Karlquist N6RK" ) writes: I'd like to know the original circuit designer to send thanks for such elegance in circuitry. I've never been able to find any historical reference to the MC4044 designer. It seems to be one of those lost pieces of history. Rick N6RK It's Jim Thompson, over in sci.electronics.design He did some other famous ICs, like the MC1488 and MC1489 RS-232 pair, and I believe he did the MC1468 ECL VCO. Michael VE2BVW |
Hello All
Rick Karlquist. N6RK, on 5/28/04 wrote: Everyone please read the 11C44 datasheet at: http://ira.club.atnet.at/rd/11c44/11C44.html before declaring there is no dead zone. See figure 11. Rick N6RK "Avery Fineman" wrote in message ... In article B_Htc.4677$pt3.1214@attbi_s03, "Rick Karlquist N6RK" writes: There are various fixes for the dead zone problem. In the mid-1970's, Fairchild (the original company) sold an "11C44" phase detector that got rid of the dead zone by injecting a narrow pulse so that the phase detector pulses would never have to try to go to zero width. Eric Breeze holds the patent on this technique; if interested read his patent. Analog Devices makes that AD9901 phase detector which gets around the dead zone by first dividing the frequency by 2. However, it is not suitable for a frequency synthesizer because of the large spurious sidebands resulting from this technique. SNIP See also 'The PLL Dead Zone and How to Avoid it', A. Hill & J. Surber, RF Design, March 1992, pp131-134. The authors were with Analog Devices and compared the performance of the AD9901 with that of the MC4044. My understanding of the AD9901 is that it behaves as a edge controlled frequency detector, until it gets close enough in frequency, when it switches to being an EXOR phase detector. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesisers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. 73 John KC0GGH |
John,
Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. Theoretically, the edge controlled PFD locks the signal & reference with 0 degrees phase error. When the loop is locked, the output pulses from the PFD are theoretically infinitesimally small. However, neither the PFD chip nor the external charge pump/loop filter are perfect. Any leakage in the charge pump and/or loop filter causes the PFD to continually output wider than normal pulses in order to supply the additional charge current necessary to make up for the current leakage. This results in a non-zero phase error at the PFD inputs. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesizers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? As mentioned, the PFD output pulses approach zero width at lock, making it easier to filter the pulses down to pure DC in the charge pump/loop filter. The XOR PD will output a 50% duty cycle pulse train at lock. This is much more difficult to filter down to pure DC, resulting in modulation of the VCO, and thus sidebands. Joe W3JDR "John Crabtree" wrote in message ... Hello All Rick Karlquist. N6RK, on 5/28/04 wrote: Everyone please read the 11C44 datasheet at: http://ira.club.atnet.at/rd/11c44/11C44.html before declaring there is no dead zone. See figure 11. Rick N6RK "Avery Fineman" wrote in message ... In article B_Htc.4677$pt3.1214@attbi_s03, "Rick Karlquist N6RK" writes: There are various fixes for the dead zone problem. In the mid-1970's, Fairchild (the original company) sold an "11C44" phase detector that got rid of the dead zone by injecting a narrow pulse so that the phase detector pulses would never have to try to go to zero width. Eric Breeze holds the patent on this technique; if interested read his patent. Analog Devices makes that AD9901 phase detector which gets around the dead zone by first dividing the frequency by 2. However, it is not suitable for a frequency synthesizer because of the large spurious sidebands resulting from this technique. SNIP See also 'The PLL Dead Zone and How to Avoid it', A. Hill & J. Surber, RF Design, March 1992, pp131-134. The authors were with Analog Devices and compared the performance of the AD9901 with that of the MC4044. My understanding of the AD9901 is that it behaves as a edge controlled frequency detector, until it gets close enough in frequency, when it switches to being an EXOR phase detector. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesisers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. 73 John KC0GGH |
John,
Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. Theoretically, the edge controlled PFD locks the signal & reference with 0 degrees phase error. When the loop is locked, the output pulses from the PFD are theoretically infinitesimally small. However, neither the PFD chip nor the external charge pump/loop filter are perfect. Any leakage in the charge pump and/or loop filter causes the PFD to continually output wider than normal pulses in order to supply the additional charge current necessary to make up for the current leakage. This results in a non-zero phase error at the PFD inputs. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesizers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? As mentioned, the PFD output pulses approach zero width at lock, making it easier to filter the pulses down to pure DC in the charge pump/loop filter. The XOR PD will output a 50% duty cycle pulse train at lock. This is much more difficult to filter down to pure DC, resulting in modulation of the VCO, and thus sidebands. Joe W3JDR "John Crabtree" wrote in message ... Hello All Rick Karlquist. N6RK, on 5/28/04 wrote: Everyone please read the 11C44 datasheet at: http://ira.club.atnet.at/rd/11c44/11C44.html before declaring there is no dead zone. See figure 11. Rick N6RK "Avery Fineman" wrote in message ... In article B_Htc.4677$pt3.1214@attbi_s03, "Rick Karlquist N6RK" writes: There are various fixes for the dead zone problem. In the mid-1970's, Fairchild (the original company) sold an "11C44" phase detector that got rid of the dead zone by injecting a narrow pulse so that the phase detector pulses would never have to try to go to zero width. Eric Breeze holds the patent on this technique; if interested read his patent. Analog Devices makes that AD9901 phase detector which gets around the dead zone by first dividing the frequency by 2. However, it is not suitable for a frequency synthesizer because of the large spurious sidebands resulting from this technique. SNIP See also 'The PLL Dead Zone and How to Avoid it', A. Hill & J. Surber, RF Design, March 1992, pp131-134. The authors were with Analog Devices and compared the performance of the AD9901 with that of the MC4044. My understanding of the AD9901 is that it behaves as a edge controlled frequency detector, until it gets close enough in frequency, when it switches to being an EXOR phase detector. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesisers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. 73 John KC0GGH |
In article , "W3JDR"
writes: John, Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. Theoretically, the edge controlled PFD locks the signal & reference with 0 degrees phase error. When the loop is locked, the output pulses from the PFD are theoretically infinitesimally small. However, neither the PFD chip nor the external charge pump/loop filter are perfect. Any leakage in the charge pump and/or loop filter causes the PFD to continually output wider than normal pulses in order to supply the additional charge current necessary to make up for the current leakage. This results in a non-zero phase error at the PFD inputs. Not quite it. In order to derive a control voltage for the controlled oscillator, the PFD output MUST BE A FINITE WIDTH. In lock, at any frequency increment, the relative phase of the signal and reference is constant, stable, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A PHASE OFFSET. This is necessary in order to derive the control voltage which keeps the VCO in lock. It's a common misconception to think of phase lock or even phase control as trying to achieve a "zero degree" condition with no phase offset. What is achieved in phase lock is a STABLE, BUT OFFSET, phase relationship between signal and reference frequencies at PFD inputs. The easiest way to prove the condition is to scope an adjustable- frequency PLL at the signal and reference PFD inputs and then the '44-type PFD output into the loop filter. [measure the VCO frequency separately if desired to prove the VCO, if desired] At one locked frequency of the VCO the PFD output is a finite-width pulse at the reference frequency. Change the divider setting for a new VCO frequency and the PFD output has a different pulse width. That can be confirmed by the DC control voltage...one value at the first frequency setting, another value at the second frequency setting. That DC control voltage is, in effect, an average value of the pulse width out of the PFD. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesizers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? As mentioned, the PFD output pulses approach zero width at lock, making it easier to filter the pulses down to pure DC in the charge pump/loop filter. No. In the '44-type PFD, the output pulses will be zero ONLY if the divided VCO is way off frequency, at one end of the controllable range or the other. IN LOCK the PFD output will ALWAYS HAVE A FINITE PULSE WIDTH at the reference frequency repetition rate. Without that pulse width averaged out there would be NO control voltage to hold the divided VCO within range. The XOR PD will output a 50% duty cycle pulse train at lock. This is much more difficult to filter down to pure DC, resulting in modulation of the VCO, and thus sidebands. It is no different. Control voltage averaged out of an XOR phase detector is still from essentially the same finite pulse width. [those have worked for years without any comments about "spurs"] The vast difference between an XOR PD and the '44-type PFD is that the XOR PD is limited to a +/- 90 degree control and can't tell the loop how to come off of a start-up condition which is way off to one side of the VCO range or the other. The '44-type PFD works over +/- 180 degree range and DOES indicate a way-off VCO signal frequency condition. It will start up safely. In the old PDs limited to 90 degree range, the general way of starting up was with a very slow sawtooth generator algebraically adding to the control voltage...once the lock range was achieved, more circuitry shut off the sawtooth. [lots of extra parts] In either type of phase detector, the amount of reference frequency ripple out of the loop filter is dependent on the type of filter and the speed of lock-in time on changing frequency of the VCO through the divider setting. On can make the loop filter very slow and cut the (awful, terrible) spurious sidebands down...and also waste literal minutes waiting for the PLL to lock in. Those (awful, terrible) spurs at increments of the reference frequency are seldom worth worrying about in a PLL with good shielding and decoupling around the control voltage parts of the PLL. [the proof lies in tens of thousands of simple PLLs working all around the globe without worries over "not working" because their spurious outputs are "too high"] Len Anderson retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person |
In article , "W3JDR"
writes: John, Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. Theoretically, the edge controlled PFD locks the signal & reference with 0 degrees phase error. When the loop is locked, the output pulses from the PFD are theoretically infinitesimally small. However, neither the PFD chip nor the external charge pump/loop filter are perfect. Any leakage in the charge pump and/or loop filter causes the PFD to continually output wider than normal pulses in order to supply the additional charge current necessary to make up for the current leakage. This results in a non-zero phase error at the PFD inputs. Not quite it. In order to derive a control voltage for the controlled oscillator, the PFD output MUST BE A FINITE WIDTH. In lock, at any frequency increment, the relative phase of the signal and reference is constant, stable, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A PHASE OFFSET. This is necessary in order to derive the control voltage which keeps the VCO in lock. It's a common misconception to think of phase lock or even phase control as trying to achieve a "zero degree" condition with no phase offset. What is achieved in phase lock is a STABLE, BUT OFFSET, phase relationship between signal and reference frequencies at PFD inputs. The easiest way to prove the condition is to scope an adjustable- frequency PLL at the signal and reference PFD inputs and then the '44-type PFD output into the loop filter. [measure the VCO frequency separately if desired to prove the VCO, if desired] At one locked frequency of the VCO the PFD output is a finite-width pulse at the reference frequency. Change the divider setting for a new VCO frequency and the PFD output has a different pulse width. That can be confirmed by the DC control voltage...one value at the first frequency setting, another value at the second frequency setting. That DC control voltage is, in effect, an average value of the pulse width out of the PFD. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesizers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? As mentioned, the PFD output pulses approach zero width at lock, making it easier to filter the pulses down to pure DC in the charge pump/loop filter. No. In the '44-type PFD, the output pulses will be zero ONLY if the divided VCO is way off frequency, at one end of the controllable range or the other. IN LOCK the PFD output will ALWAYS HAVE A FINITE PULSE WIDTH at the reference frequency repetition rate. Without that pulse width averaged out there would be NO control voltage to hold the divided VCO within range. The XOR PD will output a 50% duty cycle pulse train at lock. This is much more difficult to filter down to pure DC, resulting in modulation of the VCO, and thus sidebands. It is no different. Control voltage averaged out of an XOR phase detector is still from essentially the same finite pulse width. [those have worked for years without any comments about "spurs"] The vast difference between an XOR PD and the '44-type PFD is that the XOR PD is limited to a +/- 90 degree control and can't tell the loop how to come off of a start-up condition which is way off to one side of the VCO range or the other. The '44-type PFD works over +/- 180 degree range and DOES indicate a way-off VCO signal frequency condition. It will start up safely. In the old PDs limited to 90 degree range, the general way of starting up was with a very slow sawtooth generator algebraically adding to the control voltage...once the lock range was achieved, more circuitry shut off the sawtooth. [lots of extra parts] In either type of phase detector, the amount of reference frequency ripple out of the loop filter is dependent on the type of filter and the speed of lock-in time on changing frequency of the VCO through the divider setting. On can make the loop filter very slow and cut the (awful, terrible) spurious sidebands down...and also waste literal minutes waiting for the PLL to lock in. Those (awful, terrible) spurs at increments of the reference frequency are seldom worth worrying about in a PLL with good shielding and decoupling around the control voltage parts of the PLL. [the proof lies in tens of thousands of simple PLLs working all around the globe without worries over "not working" because their spurious outputs are "too high"] Len Anderson retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person |
Wrong on all counts Len!
Not quite it. In order to derive a control voltage for the controlled oscillator, the PFD output MUST BE A FINITE WIDTH. In lock, at any frequency increment, the relative phase of the signal and reference is constant, stable, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A PHASE OFFSET. This is necessary in order to derive the control voltage which keeps the VCO in lock. In the digital PFD, there are essentially two outputs that drive the charge storage circuit; "pump up" and "pump down". If there is a phase error, the corresponding output produces pulses that are exactly proportional to the time-error between the two PD inputs. If the time error corresponds to a leading phase relationship between VCO and reference, then the "pump down" output produces pulses equal in width to the lead time, discharging the charge storage element. If there is a lagging relationship, then the "pump up" output produces produces pulses equal in width to the lag time, charging the charge storage element. If there is no error , then neither pump output produces any pulses, and the charge storage element just 'holds' the last charge it had on it. In a practical PFD implementation, it is impossible to maintain the zero pulse-width point because the PFD is a digital feedback circuit, and you would need parts with zero propagation delay to make such a circuit. However, the width of the pulses in modern designs can get down into the nanosecond range at lock. For this reason, the PFD can produce much lower sideband content than the XOR, which outputs large pulses at lock. The larger the output pulse, the more difficult the loop filter design. No. In the '44-type PFD, the output pulses will be zero ONLY if the divided VCO is way off frequency, at one end of the controllable range or the other. IN LOCK the PFD output will ALWAYS HAVE A FINITE PULSE WIDTH at the reference frequency repetition rate. Without that pulse width averaged out there would be NO control voltage to hold the divided VCO within range. Wrong again! With large frequency errors, the PFD produces constant pumping. If it didn't, it couldn't acquire with phase errors larger than 180deg. You are also wrong in asserting that the lock-in range of the PFD is +/- 180 degrees. In fact, it is infinite (in theory). Yes, its linear output compliance range is +/- 180 degrees, but it can acquire lock even when there is an infinite frequency error. This is because once the PFD output exceeds it's compliance range, it outputs a constant "pump up" or "pump down" pulse train, which in turn causes the loop filter voltage to ramp up or down as the case might be until the signal comes back into the compliance range and lock is established. In practice the range is not infinite, only because you can't build a VCO with infinite tuning range or a PFD with infinite clocking speed. The XOR's big advantage is that it is simple, and there is no discontinuity around the phase lock point (as there is in the PFD), but it does not lock up readily in the face of frequency errors. The PFD's advantage is that it readily locks up, even in the face of large frequency errors and it also produces an easily filtered output. Joe W3JDR "Avery Fineman" wrote in message ... In article , "W3JDR" writes: John, Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. Theoretically, the edge controlled PFD locks the signal & reference with 0 degrees phase error. When the loop is locked, the output pulses from the PFD are theoretically infinitesimally small. However, neither the PFD chip nor the external charge pump/loop filter are perfect. Any leakage in the charge pump and/or loop filter causes the PFD to continually output wider than normal pulses in order to supply the additional charge current necessary to make up for the current leakage. This results in a non-zero phase error at the PFD inputs. Not quite it. In order to derive a control voltage for the controlled oscillator, the PFD output MUST BE A FINITE WIDTH. In lock, at any frequency increment, the relative phase of the signal and reference is constant, stable, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A PHASE OFFSET. This is necessary in order to derive the control voltage which keeps the VCO in lock. It's a common misconception to think of phase lock or even phase control as trying to achieve a "zero degree" condition with no phase offset. What is achieved in phase lock is a STABLE, BUT OFFSET, phase relationship between signal and reference frequencies at PFD inputs. The easiest way to prove the condition is to scope an adjustable- frequency PLL at the signal and reference PFD inputs and then the '44-type PFD output into the loop filter. [measure the VCO frequency separately if desired to prove the VCO, if desired] At one locked frequency of the VCO the PFD output is a finite-width pulse at the reference frequency. Change the divider setting for a new VCO frequency and the PFD output has a different pulse width. That can be confirmed by the DC control voltage...one value at the first frequency setting, another value at the second frequency setting. That DC control voltage is, in effect, an average value of the pulse width out of the PFD. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesizers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? As mentioned, the PFD output pulses approach zero width at lock, making it easier to filter the pulses down to pure DC in the charge pump/loop filter. No. In the '44-type PFD, the output pulses will be zero ONLY if the divided VCO is way off frequency, at one end of the controllable range or the other. IN LOCK the PFD output will ALWAYS HAVE A FINITE PULSE WIDTH at the reference frequency repetition rate. Without that pulse width averaged out there would be NO control voltage to hold the divided VCO within range. The XOR PD will output a 50% duty cycle pulse train at lock. This is much more difficult to filter down to pure DC, resulting in modulation of the VCO, and thus sidebands. It is no different. Control voltage averaged out of an XOR phase detector is still from essentially the same finite pulse width. [those have worked for years without any comments about "spurs"] The vast difference between an XOR PD and the '44-type PFD is that the XOR PD is limited to a +/- 90 degree control and can't tell the loop how to come off of a start-up condition which is way off to one side of the VCO range or the other. The '44-type PFD works over +/- 180 degree range and DOES indicate a way-off VCO signal frequency condition. It will start up safely. In the old PDs limited to 90 degree range, the general way of starting up was with a very slow sawtooth generator algebraically adding to the control voltage...once the lock range was achieved, more circuitry shut off the sawtooth. [lots of extra parts] In either type of phase detector, the amount of reference frequency ripple out of the loop filter is dependent on the type of filter and the speed of lock-in time on changing frequency of the VCO through the divider setting. On can make the loop filter very slow and cut the (awful, terrible) spurious sidebands down...and also waste literal minutes waiting for the PLL to lock in. Those (awful, terrible) spurs at increments of the reference frequency are seldom worth worrying about in a PLL with good shielding and decoupling around the control voltage parts of the PLL. [the proof lies in tens of thousands of simple PLLs working all around the globe without worries over "not working" because their spurious outputs are "too high"] Len Anderson retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person |
Wrong on all counts Len!
Not quite it. In order to derive a control voltage for the controlled oscillator, the PFD output MUST BE A FINITE WIDTH. In lock, at any frequency increment, the relative phase of the signal and reference is constant, stable, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A PHASE OFFSET. This is necessary in order to derive the control voltage which keeps the VCO in lock. In the digital PFD, there are essentially two outputs that drive the charge storage circuit; "pump up" and "pump down". If there is a phase error, the corresponding output produces pulses that are exactly proportional to the time-error between the two PD inputs. If the time error corresponds to a leading phase relationship between VCO and reference, then the "pump down" output produces pulses equal in width to the lead time, discharging the charge storage element. If there is a lagging relationship, then the "pump up" output produces produces pulses equal in width to the lag time, charging the charge storage element. If there is no error , then neither pump output produces any pulses, and the charge storage element just 'holds' the last charge it had on it. In a practical PFD implementation, it is impossible to maintain the zero pulse-width point because the PFD is a digital feedback circuit, and you would need parts with zero propagation delay to make such a circuit. However, the width of the pulses in modern designs can get down into the nanosecond range at lock. For this reason, the PFD can produce much lower sideband content than the XOR, which outputs large pulses at lock. The larger the output pulse, the more difficult the loop filter design. No. In the '44-type PFD, the output pulses will be zero ONLY if the divided VCO is way off frequency, at one end of the controllable range or the other. IN LOCK the PFD output will ALWAYS HAVE A FINITE PULSE WIDTH at the reference frequency repetition rate. Without that pulse width averaged out there would be NO control voltage to hold the divided VCO within range. Wrong again! With large frequency errors, the PFD produces constant pumping. If it didn't, it couldn't acquire with phase errors larger than 180deg. You are also wrong in asserting that the lock-in range of the PFD is +/- 180 degrees. In fact, it is infinite (in theory). Yes, its linear output compliance range is +/- 180 degrees, but it can acquire lock even when there is an infinite frequency error. This is because once the PFD output exceeds it's compliance range, it outputs a constant "pump up" or "pump down" pulse train, which in turn causes the loop filter voltage to ramp up or down as the case might be until the signal comes back into the compliance range and lock is established. In practice the range is not infinite, only because you can't build a VCO with infinite tuning range or a PFD with infinite clocking speed. The XOR's big advantage is that it is simple, and there is no discontinuity around the phase lock point (as there is in the PFD), but it does not lock up readily in the face of frequency errors. The PFD's advantage is that it readily locks up, even in the face of large frequency errors and it also produces an easily filtered output. Joe W3JDR "Avery Fineman" wrote in message ... In article , "W3JDR" writes: John, Elsewhere in this thread there seems to have been some debate on the operation of the phase frequency detector. IMHO if the phase detector has a tri-state output then the loop over time must lock with no phase difference between the reference and controlled signals, ie 0 degrees. Theoretically, the edge controlled PFD locks the signal & reference with 0 degrees phase error. When the loop is locked, the output pulses from the PFD are theoretically infinitesimally small. However, neither the PFD chip nor the external charge pump/loop filter are perfect. Any leakage in the charge pump and/or loop filter causes the PFD to continually output wider than normal pulses in order to supply the additional charge current necessary to make up for the current leakage. This results in a non-zero phase error at the PFD inputs. Not quite it. In order to derive a control voltage for the controlled oscillator, the PFD output MUST BE A FINITE WIDTH. In lock, at any frequency increment, the relative phase of the signal and reference is constant, stable, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A PHASE OFFSET. This is necessary in order to derive the control voltage which keeps the VCO in lock. It's a common misconception to think of phase lock or even phase control as trying to achieve a "zero degree" condition with no phase offset. What is achieved in phase lock is a STABLE, BUT OFFSET, phase relationship between signal and reference frequencies at PFD inputs. The easiest way to prove the condition is to scope an adjustable- frequency PLL at the signal and reference PFD inputs and then the '44-type PFD output into the loop filter. [measure the VCO frequency separately if desired to prove the VCO, if desired] At one locked frequency of the VCO the PFD output is a finite-width pulse at the reference frequency. Change the divider setting for a new VCO frequency and the PFD output has a different pulse width. That can be confirmed by the DC control voltage...one value at the first frequency setting, another value at the second frequency setting. That DC control voltage is, in effect, an average value of the pulse width out of the PFD. I am struggling to understand the comment above that the AD9901 is not suitable for use in frequency synthesizers because of the large spurious sidebands arising from its use. What causes the additional sidebands ? As mentioned, the PFD output pulses approach zero width at lock, making it easier to filter the pulses down to pure DC in the charge pump/loop filter. No. In the '44-type PFD, the output pulses will be zero ONLY if the divided VCO is way off frequency, at one end of the controllable range or the other. IN LOCK the PFD output will ALWAYS HAVE A FINITE PULSE WIDTH at the reference frequency repetition rate. Without that pulse width averaged out there would be NO control voltage to hold the divided VCO within range. The XOR PD will output a 50% duty cycle pulse train at lock. This is much more difficult to filter down to pure DC, resulting in modulation of the VCO, and thus sidebands. It is no different. Control voltage averaged out of an XOR phase detector is still from essentially the same finite pulse width. [those have worked for years without any comments about "spurs"] The vast difference between an XOR PD and the '44-type PFD is that the XOR PD is limited to a +/- 90 degree control and can't tell the loop how to come off of a start-up condition which is way off to one side of the VCO range or the other. The '44-type PFD works over +/- 180 degree range and DOES indicate a way-off VCO signal frequency condition. It will start up safely. In the old PDs limited to 90 degree range, the general way of starting up was with a very slow sawtooth generator algebraically adding to the control voltage...once the lock range was achieved, more circuitry shut off the sawtooth. [lots of extra parts] In either type of phase detector, the amount of reference frequency ripple out of the loop filter is dependent on the type of filter and the speed of lock-in time on changing frequency of the VCO through the divider setting. On can make the loop filter very slow and cut the (awful, terrible) spurious sidebands down...and also waste literal minutes waiting for the PLL to lock in. Those (awful, terrible) spurs at increments of the reference frequency are seldom worth worrying about in a PLL with good shielding and decoupling around the control voltage parts of the PLL. [the proof lies in tens of thousands of simple PLLs working all around the globe without worries over "not working" because their spurious outputs are "too high"] Len Anderson retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person |
In article , "W3JDR"
writes: Wrong on all counts Len! Not quite it. In order to derive a control voltage for the controlled oscillator, the PFD output MUST BE A FINITE WIDTH. In lock, at any frequency increment, the relative phase of the signal and reference is constant, stable, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS A PHASE OFFSET. This is necessary in order to derive the control voltage which keeps the VCO in lock. In the digital PFD, there are essentially two outputs that drive the charge storage circuit; "pump up" and "pump down". If there is a phase error, the corresponding output produces pulses that are exactly proportional to the time-error between the two PD inputs. If the time error corresponds to a leading phase relationship between VCO and reference, then the "pump down" output produces pulses equal in width to the lead time, discharging the charge storage element. If there is a lagging relationship, then the "pump up" output produces produces pulses equal in width to the lag time, charging the charge storage element. If there is no error , then neither pump output produces any pulses, and the charge storage element just 'holds' the last charge it had on it. Going to make it one of those long days? :-) OK, so where is the VCO control voltage coming from and how does it "know" how to reach the right voltage for the right frequency? It doesn't...because the PFD output (MC4044 type) does not have to. There will ALWAYS be a small error in any control loop... otherwise a control loop couldn't function to do controlling (basic control loop theory which so many seem to forget). A "charge pump" is basically a voltage-to-current converter to develop a basically-DC control voltage for the VCO of the PLL after the loop filtering. One doesn't need to use the charge pump in the MC4044 or the 11C44 chip. The digital output of the PFD can go direct to the loop filter. Even with the charge pump in-use, the whole thing (pump and loop filter or integrator/ filter) simply integrates a time variation (width of repetitious pulses out of PFD) into a stable DC value. In a practical PFD implementation, it is impossible to maintain the zero pulse-width point because the PFD is a digital feedback circuit, and you would need parts with zero propagation delay to make such a circuit. Absolutely not. There must be SOME gate delay. If there were zero, then every single D or J-K flip-flop would not work! Since they do work, there is always SOME internal gate delay. That internal IC capacitance causing the delay is the cause for all that heat-dissipation effort on hundred-thousand-plus transistor junction ICs used in single-chip microcomputers. In a 9- or 10-gate IC there isn't a lot of heat rise...but the parasitic gate structure capacitance is always there and all gates have finitie propagation delays. Some number of years ago I went into the old databooks (so far back they were free for anyone and still had the equivalent circuits in them...like thirty plus years ago) and started doing timing diagrams to see EXACTLY how they worked. Most interesting bit of "reverse engineering" and also quite interesting. The '44-type PFD digital part is essentially a very complex D FF like structure and it triggers only one direction of transition edges (like the Ds and J-Ks). The '44 is more complex in trying to see how it works due to the various conditions of relative input phases. If there are more than two signal edges for every reference edge, the outputs hold at one state indicating a "way-off" towards the high frequency range end of the signal. If there are more than two reference edges for every signal edge, the outputs flip to the other state...the "way-off" signal frequency is too low. However, when there is one input edge for each other input edge, the outputs produce a variable-width pulse, repetition rate equal to the reference frequency, which corresponds to the relative phase of the two inputs. The outputs are always "flipping" when the inputs are at the same frequency even though the inputs need NOT be in exact phase positioning. Not a problem. That variable width turns out to be extremely good for control since a simple integrator can convert the variable time into a variable voltage whose DC value is proportional to the relative inputs phase displacement. An op-amp integrator circuit functions as a sort of time-to-current- to-output-voltage converter (technically, the input R is creating a pseudo-constant-current source for the mid-point of R and C of the integrator op-amp input). That can also be used as a "Type 1" loop filter. With some modifications of a basic integrator, it can become any of the other types. Or, one can, with a sensitive control voltage characteristic of the VCO, use a passive loop filter with the filter input directly on the PFD output (choose either one to go with polarity of the VCO control needed). For that alternate condition, the PFD Vcc *MUST* be stable and decoupled less it mess around with more badness in the control voltage. The "charge pump" circuit of the MC4044/11C44 is really optional to use. It isn't absolutely necessary although it can cut down on the number of parts used. Based on hands-on observation of several of these PLLs, especially those of PFDs made from individual logic gates, the PFD outputs ARE pulses at the reference frequency repetition rate. Their width is proportional to the integrated-averaged DC control voltage of the VCO when in lock. If what you say is true, then there would be ZERO control voltage out of any of the mentioned interface circuits. Obviously, there must be some finite amount of control voltage for the VCO to adjust to a particular PLL frequency increment. That control voltage is the integrated-averaged DC out of the loop filter, not some mythical "charged whatsis" from that charge pump. In looking at the relative phases of the signal and reference AC inputs, the loop is LOCKED even though the phases are offset. The phases remain "in step" and unchanging on the 'scope but they are offset in phase from one another. [that's normal with this kind of PFD and PLL] I've been looking at these things for about three decades and see the same things. With the MC145151 combo PLL chip I'm playing with now, the PFD gates aren't fully available for peeking, but it locks in as advertised as I said above. However, the width of the pulses in modern designs can get down into the nanosecond range at lock. Nobody, not even the PLL really cares. How much voltage are you going to generate on the VCO control line from nanosecond pulse widths at a 1 KHz reference input repetition rate? Very little. For this reason, the PFD can produce much lower sideband content than the XOR, which outputs large pulses at lock. The larger the output pulse, the more difficult the loop filter design. The only thing "difficult" about a PLL is others paying attention to the REQUIRED values of control voltage gain and the reference frequency AND the simple math needed to calculate those values. "Difficult" is when the control voltage isn't linear over frequency (which upsets the heck out of the control gain at one end of the VCO range). "Difficult" is not paying attention to the subcircuit isolation and shielding and decoupling that produces the control voltage where it is ripe for picking up garbage that results in all kinds of badness in VCO stability. No. In the '44-type PFD, the output pulses will be zero ONLY if the divided VCO is way off frequency, at one end of the controllable range or the other. IN LOCK the PFD output will ALWAYS HAVE A FINITE PULSE WIDTH at the reference frequency repetition rate. Without that pulse width averaged out there would be NO control voltage to hold the divided VCO within range. Wrong again! With large frequency errors, the PFD produces constant pumping. If it didn't, it couldn't acquire with phase errors larger than 180deg. No. If you examine the states of all gates in a '44 PFD with corresponding input waveform states, you will see that the "way-off" (phase errors larger than 180 degrees) conditions of the PFD outputs REMAIN in their fully-on or fully-off states. That's the gem of this gate arrangement and the key to coming into lock on power-up. One reason I submitted my article to Jim Fisk at Ham Radio magazine (it was not in the original sequence at the start of that series) was as a result of trying to explain the gate-states of the '44 PFD to another. The waveform timing diagrams in that September 1982 article accurately show the state changes (without the precise amount of internal gate delay, not really needed in explanation). Just to make certain, I'd duplicated the gate logic in an Apple ][ program to make sure...and to see the variations in original conditions that might cause a bad start-up. I didn't use the conventional bubble-and-arrow state change diagrams since so few contemporaries could "read" them and I didn't much care for that kind of presentation either. Waveforms were an old familiar thing and I stuck with that. You are also wrong in asserting that the lock-in range of the PFD is +/- 180 degrees. In fact, it is infinite (in theory). "Infinite" only in the grossest sense of being - in effect - locked up on either of the "way-off" conditions. From what I gather, it was designed to do that very thing. An excellent thing to insure start-up. However, integrated-averaged to DC, the outputs of the PFD make an excellent phase meter with a DC that can be converted to binary in an A-to-D. The Rocketdyne Deformable Mirror project used that characteristic to measure the heterodyned optical signals from the optics at 1 MHz PFD input. It worked just fine out to about +/- 179 degrees or so when calibrated for the whole optical-electronic loop. [optics could approach 180 but never quite get exactly there...but then that's difficult with electronics also, needing time-interval averaging counters and such which we DID use...but the optics folks wanted to tweak their stable table optics more than tweaking instrument dials...:-)] Yes, its linear output compliance range is +/- 180 degrees, but it can acquire lock even when there is an infinite frequency error. This is because once the PFD output exceeds it's compliance range, it outputs a constant "pump up" or "pump down" pulse train, which in turn causes the loop filter voltage to ramp up or down as the case might be until the signal comes back into the compliance range and lock is established. No. At beyond-control-range input frequencies, the PFD outputs go to their stable, unchanging "way-off" states and stay there until both inputs are the same frequency. Ain't no "pump" pulses whatsoever at those "way-off" conditions. The XOR's big advantage is that it is simple, and there is no discontinuity around the phase lock point (as there is in the PFD), but it does not lock up readily in the face of frequency errors. The PFD's advantage is that it readily locks up, even in the face of large frequency errors and it also produces an easily filtered output. In practice, since the last days of WW2, phase-frequency control loops have used lots of extra circuitry to cure that start-up. Philco did that with some S-band microwave radio relay gear used by the USAF in 1955. Army used L-band crystal-controlled microwave radio relay terminals by GE, had no problems. USAF had Philco tech reps there seemingly all the time since their frequency control tended to pop off lock and go sweeping frequency a lot from their extra sawtooth circuitry. [PLL was first disclosed in 1932 by "H. de Bellecize, working in France" according to my giant 1980 50th anniversary special edition of Electronics magazine] There have been a few PFD circuits devised before the '44 type but I'd say the '44 went all the way to excellence with elegance in its simplicity. There have been at least one close to the '44 but arranged differently and with more internal parts...but that one works about the same as the '44. When you get the chance, grab a 'scope and look into the waveforms of a PFD as well as the control voltage. You will find out I'm right. No "theory" on that, just working PLL hardware. I've seen and observed that, used the basic knowledge to build my own PLLs (including a couple just for me) and am confident in the explanation I gave. They WORK by all the nice instruments from Hewlett and Packard (rest their souls). Len Anderson retired (from regular hours) electronic engineer person |
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